Going from "we should stay in Iraq" to "we should leave eventually as the realities on the ground dictate" to "we should leave immediately and be out in 16 months, period" isn't dramatic? Strange.

Also, Obama said that he wasn't sure how he would vote and even defended Edwards and Kerry saying there was room for disagreement. Of course, that was 2004, when the war was more popular among the people he was trying persuade. In 2007, Obama said he was doing what was politically expedient being polite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbO-kgB-ZI4

[Edited on July 17, 2008 at 5:32 PM. Reason : ``]

7/17/2008 5:30:16 PM

^ over the course of a couple years, no.

I change my position every 2 months I think on the Iraq war. It's a hairy situation.

Now someone who spent some times in a war prisoner camp living in a small box, who claimed to be against torture for many years, then all of a sudden changes his mind, that would be concerning.

[Edited on July 17, 2008 at 5:37 PM. Reason : ]

7/17/2008 5:36:09 PM

7/17/2008 5:37:59 PM

^^^ obama explains his position well, I think, starting about 1:10 where he says what I said he thinks (although i've never seen that interview).

7/17/2008 5:46:25 PM

Quote :

"Now someone who spent some times in a war prisoner camp living in a small box, who claimed to be against torture for many years, then all of a sudden changes his mind, that would be concerning. "

Please stop repeating blatantly false democrat talking points. It'll help out the discussion a lot.

7/17/2008 6:02:40 PM

Quote :

"So how can I argue with someone who refuses to read the links I provide?"

Well, you can formulate responses to what I wrote instead of poisoning the well.

It's a start, at least.

7/17/2008 7:17:25 PM

You pwned the shit out of the moonbats here with that list of Obama's flip-flops, Socks``. Their flapping and flailing and foaming is evidence of this--and they're increasingly desperate to defend Obama these days as his poll numbers continue to drop.

7/18/2008 9:24:16 PM

Yea man, McCain is the bomb, he's the best candidate that the repubs have ever put up (since Bush)! I can't wait for him to lose the presidency so I can bitch and moan about liberals and how bad their presidents are! Even if things improve, I can't wait until the next republican gets elected so he can screw up the economy again and I can bitch about the next democrat is going to raise our taxes (even if I do end up getting a tax break). Show them, flip flops are the worst thing about those damn democrats!

7/18/2008 9:35:07 PM

^

1. Obama's probably going to win.

2. What has the Democrat-led Congress done for us again?

3. How do presidents control the economy again? I mean, this isn't a communist country yet, comrade StankinMonkey.

7/18/2008 10:01:49 PM

Quote :

"How do presidents control the economy again?"

Please don't learn your own lesson.

I'd miss your hilarious Impressive Economy thread.

7/19/2008 12:22:15 AM

Flippity-floppity.

7/19/2008 8:18:51 AM

Is Europe turning against Neobama, The One?!

From The Guardian's UK Web site--note well the anti-American venom spat in for good measure:

Obama flip-flops on offshore oil drilling

Quote :

"While I've been or more less accepting of Obama's float toward the centre as a political imperative as the election gets closer, this is one move I can't support. Reversing his position on campaign financing, for example, is one thing - a tactic that upset some of his supporters but won't necessarily have any kind of permanent or global repercussions. Offshore drilling, on the other hand, is sure to contaminate marine life and the water along Florida's coast, produce a number of small oil spills and, ultimately, contribute to the problem of global warming. A catastrophic oil spill is also a possibility."

Quote :

"And of course, most voters don't care about contaminating the shoreline. According to a Rasmussen poll released on July 29, 57% percent of Americans favour offshore drilling (only 29% are opposed). And why is that? Because nearly the same number - 56% - believe gas prices would be likely to fall if the ban is lifted."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/aug/05/oil.barackobama

Do some of you seriously align yourselves with this crowd? Sweet Jesus.

8/5/2008 3:02:40 PM

Except that no one outside of Florida does care about contaminating the shoreline????

8/5/2008 3:12:04 PM

Or maybe they think the fears are overblown considering that modern drilling rigs have reduced the possibility of a major spill to almost nil?

8/5/2008 3:17:04 PM

When was the last off shore rigging incident?

8/5/2008 3:22:58 PM

There was a big one last month after that tanker ran into the rig when Hurricane Dolly was in town

8/5/2008 3:26:09 PM

^ Umm, not quite. There was a spill in the Mississippi river when a barge collided with a tanker, but that had nothing to do with any drilling rig.

8/5/2008 3:30:39 PM

Did you specify "off shore" because you knew about the recent one on the Mississippi?

It astonishes me that NC could be behind a measure that would drill off the Outer Banks.

8/5/2008 3:31:30 PM

^ If you pulled your head out of the ideological echo chamber--or whatever dark place you keep it--once in a while, you wouldn't be so astonished. Opposition to drilling is the minority position these days.

Americans favor offshore drilling
Poll finds most people think drilling for oil and natural gas off the nation's coast lines is a good idea.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/30/news/economy/poll_drilling/index.htm

Oil drilling gains support in Florida
Florida's staunch opposition to offshore oil drilling is softening, with 60 percent in favor, a new poll suggests.

http://www.miamiherald.com/979/story/625374.html

Poll: Most Californians approve of offshore oil drilling

http://climateark.org/shared/reader/welcome.aspx?linkid=104006&keybold=oil%20drilling%20politics

Quote :

"As for TBJ [Triangle Business Journal] readers? Of the 825 people who responded to our unscientific survey, 33 percent said drilling would help 'a lot' to ease gas prices. Another 23 percent of people agreed that it would help, though 'only a little.' On the flip side, 33 percent of respondents say drilling wouldn't help at all. The remaining 11 percent of voters picked the option, 'It doesn't matter. We shouldn't drill.'"

http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/stories/2008/07/28/daily24.html?b=1217217600%5E1676576

8/5/2008 4:36:57 PM

Poll: Most Americans don't know enough to make an informed deicison

8/5/2008 5:18:31 PM

Democracy sucks! RAWR RAWR RAWR!

Typical elitist response. Maybe we should just scrap this whole democracy thing and let the elitists make all the decisions for us.

[Edited on August 5, 2008 at 5:27 PM. Reason : 2]

8/5/2008 5:26:01 PM

Quote :

"When asked if increased offshore drilling would reduce gas prices in the next year, only 51% of a separate sampling of 500 Americans believed it would, while 49% did not."

http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/30/news/economy/poll_drilling/index.htm

Quote :

"Democrats suggested the question could be leading: The poll asked respondents whether they would support or oppose drilling ''to help resolve the energy crisis and make America less dependent on foreign oil.'' Brown said each question about energy options was posed in an identical manner."

http://www.miamiherald.com/979/story/625374.html

Quote :

"Energy Department information shows that it could take a decade or more to affect gas prices, yet the link between support for drilling and fuel costs remains, Smith said. "From the survey data that I see, a lot of people are confused about how quickly the impact of offshore oil drilling would affect gas prices. Sen. McCain has been saying it's a solution to the crisis. But the crisis is today. Offshore oil drilling would have an impact in perhaps a decade. It's wishful thinking.""

http://climateark.org/shared/reader/welcome.aspx?linkid=104006&keybold=oil%20drilling%20politics

Quote :

"As for TBJ [Triangle Business Journal] readers? Of the 825 people who responded to our unscientific survey, 33 percent said drilling would help 'a lot' to ease gas prices. Another 23 percent of people agreed that it would help, though 'only a little.'"

http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/stories/2008/07/28/daily24.html?b=1217217600%5E1676576

There is a direct correlation between fuel prices and people's willingness to pursue offshore drilling, a willingness which is primarily driven by the necessity for lower gas prices in the immediate future. The only problem is that this will have no immediate effect on our prices at the pump. In effect, these polls are asking people if they are pro- or anti-miracle solutions that take no effort or pains on their part, and then acting surprised when they respond favorably.

Quote :

"With those resources, which would take years to develop, you would only postpone or temporarily relieve our dependency on fossil fuels. We are going to have to go to alternative energy, and the exploitation of existing reserves of oil, natural gas, even coal, and we can develop clean coal technology, are all great things. But we also have to devote our efforts, in my view, to alternative energy sources, which is the ultimate answer to our long-term energy needs, and we need it sooner rather than later."

btw, John McCain said that.

8/5/2008 5:36:09 PM

Quote :

"I thought this was gonna be about shoes with his face on them."

8/5/2008 5:37:12 PM

^^^ Yeah, whenever the far-left loons don't like the results of polls, elections, or life in general, they say the people are just too stupid to make decisions for themselves. Centralized governmental control is the only viable option for these types.

8/5/2008 6:01:30 PM

I'm pro-choice because I believe the government should not be involved in an individual's reproductive decisions. The abortion issue is barely on my radar screen, though.

But Obama's position on the subject at issue--he may have lied--and then the subsequent and all-too expected clarification/modification/flip-flop are just too much. When are some of you going to finally realize that this guy doesn't have a principled bone in his body--the bone was apparently aborted.

Add yet another one to Obama's lengthy list of floundering flub-flops.

Obama's Abortion Position? It's a One-liner

Quote :

"But Mr. Obama eroded many of those gains last Saturday when he told Pastor Rick Warren during a nationally televised forum that deciding when the rights of personhood should be extended to the unborn was 'above my pay grade.' Even Doug Kmiec, a conservative Pepperdine University lawyer who has become one of Mr. Obama's most prominent pro-life backers, was unsettled. He called the candidate's answer 'much too glib for something this serious.' Mr. Obama compounded his problems after the forum when in an interview with the Christian Broadcasting Network, he accused pro-life groups of 'lying' about his record in the Illinois State Senate on legislation that would have protected viable babies born after botched abortions. Mr. Obama acknowledged voting against the bill but said he would have voted 'yes' if the bill had contained language similar to a federal bill's language making clear that the intention wasn't to diminish overall abortion rights. But, as recently revealed, the Illinois bill had indeed included such language and Mr. Obama still voted against it. 'Senator Obama got caught in the twisting of the truth,' says Tony Perkins, head of the Family Research Council. 'His campaign was later forced to put out a clarifying statement that it was the Senator himself who was actually wrong on the facts. He did indeed vote against a bill in the Illinois State Senate that was identical to the federal legislation that sought to protect babies who survive abortions' [emphasis added]."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121926352641257733.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Obama faces new criticism on abortion

Quote :

"The Democratic Party platform is being revised to bolster the section on reducing the need for abortion. The version awaiting approval at the Democratic convention in Denver says the party supports efforts to prevent unwanted pregnancies and understands the need to help women who choose to have children. Democratic officials also gave a convention speaking slot to Sen. Bob Casey Jr., D-Pa., who opposes abortion rights."

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5giojIhr1t6DX6K27JDnIVDciQDTgD92LOC3G1

8/22/2008 1:43:14 AM

This is the OFFICIAL "Obama Flip-Flops" thread. BTW, "flip-flop" should be hyphenated--FYI!

11/13/2008 4:59:22 AM

i agree...FYI!!!!!!!1

PLEASE WARN ME IF WHAT I BELIEVE IS ABOUT TO GET ME SUSPENDED

11/13/2008 5:00:35 AM

^ Quit whining.

11/13/2008 5:04:13 AM

Quote :

"[Lobbyists] will not work in my White House."

--Barack Obama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SlBlvirqA0

No Lobbyist in the Obama Administration ... Except When There Is One

Quote :

"But if you're going to campaign on sweeping condemnations about the evil of lobbyists and then, with great fanfare, ban them from your administration, you need to live by your own rules; or at least you shouldn't start making exceptions for them on Day 1. Else the message is: It is important to prevent other administrations from doing business with lobbyists; but we are of such moral character that the rules need not apply to us. That's a slippery slope and leads to problems (and specifically could lead to the ex-lobbyists not getting confirmed, as Spencer Ackerman notes)."

http://tinyurl.com/dfp4vx

[Edited on January 23, 2009 at 11:20 PM. Reason : PS: ]

1/23/2009 11:20:24 PM

Quote :

"Democracy sucks! RAWR RAWR RAWR! Typical elitist response. Maybe we should just scrap this whole democracy thing and let the elitists make all the decisions for us."

uh, we're a republic dude

thats essentially what we do

[Edited on January 24, 2009 at 1:21 PM. Reason : oh, and its nice to see what hooksaw does when he's not avoiding my points]

1/24/2009 1:20:38 PM

[Edited on January 24, 2009 at 6:15 PM. Reason : You're just butthurt. ]

1/24/2009 6:13:49 PM

butthurt?

over what?

constantly owning you in every thread where we cross paths?

[Edited on January 25, 2009 at 5:34 AM. Reason : ps - answer my points in the millennials thread or STFU]

1/25/2009 5:33:30 AM

bump by requets

4/20/2009 6:25:27 AM

4/20/2009 11:44:17 AM

[PASTY LEG COMMENT]

4/20/2009 12:33:25 PM

^^ Obama is apparently changing colors in that pic. If that isn't a flip flop, then I don't know what is. "First Black President" indeed.

4/20/2009 12:39:34 PM

Obama, in Reversal of Campaign Pledge, May Use Military Commissions

http://tinyurl.com/chdtzu

5/2/2009 8:35:29 PM

conservatives around the country rejoice

5/2/2009 8:45:21 PM

that's not a flipflop. That is just him understanding the nuances of the situation

5/3/2009 9:14:45 PM

namely that the last admin screwed the pooch with guantanamo and there's no way to move forward in a good way.

5/4/2009 1:01:02 AM

^
Agreed.

Obama is probably wishing he hadn't been so steadfast on anything regarding Gitmo. It's gonna be a mess any way you look at it.

5/4/2009 2:33:34 AM

^^ So, Obama's answer is that Bush's way sucked, but he can't come up with a better way? The Obama administration says it will close Gitmo--BUT IT HAS NO PLAN!!!1

In any event, here's yet another Obama flip-flop:

Air Force Dumb Flyover Pics To Be Released This Week

Quote :

"The White House has put the brakes on plans to classify photos taken during last week's controversial Air Force One-style flyover of Manhattan, reversing a decision to keep the official images of the incident under wraps."

Quote :

"The news came after the baffling decision to classify the well-documentened (and totally scary) low-flying F-16 and Air Force One clone photo-op that scared the holy heck out of lower Manhattan."

Quote :

"'Look in the papers. There are the photos,' said [Mayor Bloomberg] who seemed a little amused by it all. 'I don't know what could possibly be classified. Maybe there's some national interest that I'm not familiar with.'"

http://tinyurl.com/ctxvnx

5/7/2009 4:21:14 PM

:eek: :eek: :eek:



[Edited on May 7, 2009 at 6:17 PM. Reason : .]

5/7/2009 6:17:43 PM

Quote :

"So, Obama's answer is that Bush's way sucked, but he can't come up with a better way? The Obama administration says it will close Gitmo--BUT IT HAS NO PLAN!!!1 "

let's put this in the context of a lesser crime:

say a police chief made a routine of searching property without the proper warrants. as a result much of the evidence that would be used for criminal trials would then be thrown out. this police chief is then fired. when the next chief comes in, is he suddenly able to correct all that was made wrong? no. when the executive branch fucks up, often times suspects (whether guilty or not) go free. it's not pretty and it's the situation we're faced with.

this country has dealt with murderers and other criminals going free in the past, we'll deal with it this time.

[Edited on May 7, 2009 at 6:23 PM. Reason : .]

5/7/2009 6:22:17 PM

if only terrorists were on par with murderers and thieves, then you might have a point. If I had to choose between one of two guys to let free, a murderer and a terrorist, I'd choose the murderer every time

5/7/2009 6:57:15 PM

so what? the united states made a mess of these people's interrogations and imprisonment. we can't take that back now.

5/7/2009 8:31:39 PM

^^^^ That was really a stupid reply. Yeah, (1) scaring New Yorkers half to death with memories of 9-11 is no big deal at all--just so long as Chairman Obama's administration did it, right? (2) Spending $328,000 in taxpayer dollars for a photo op is no big deal at all--just so long as Chairman Obama's administration did it, right? And (3) declaring the entire fiasco classified and then declassifying it within days is no big deal at all--just so long as Chairman Obama's administration did it, right?



$328,000 Photo: WH Will Release Pic from Air Force One NYC Fiasco
White House Says It Will Share "A Photo," Review of Controversial Photo-Op

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=7527528&page=1

^ So, what's the Obama administration's plan?

It's amateur hour. Sweet Jesus.

PS:

Barack Obama & the DC School Voucher Program

Quote :

"Yet working with congressional Democrats and despite his pledge to put politics and ideology aside in education, the Obama administration has effectively killed the program through a backdoor legislative move. '[Education] Secretary [Arne] Duncan will use only one test in what ideas to support with your precious tax dollars,' says the president. 'It's not whether it's liberal or conservative, but whether it works.' That sort of doublespeak has left many Obama supporters not just puzzled but outraged. Certainly, Mercedes is. 'Out of everything else they can shut down or everything else they can advocate for, they want to take this one thing away?' Adds her mother, Ingrid, 'We voted for you, we walked, we went to the parade, we stood freezing. Why?...Can you get this tape over to Obama and have him answer our questions? Why, sir, why?'"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7FS5B-CynM

[Edited on May 7, 2009 at 10:16 PM. Reason : .]

5/7/2009 10:04:31 PM

Quote :

"so what? the united states made a mess of these people's interrogations and imprisonment. we can't take that back now."

You are correct. We cannot take back the mistakes we've already made. But that doesn't mean we should make more of them.

5/7/2009 10:21:06 PM

^^the rolly eyes were for you, not the incident, numbnuts.

5/7/2009 10:32:24 PM

^^what would you suggest he do?

5/7/2009 11:25:45 PM