6

Quote :

"I cannot find a difference between this and what happened in the Nazi camps, rather I find Palestinian act to defend themselves more patriotic and not terroristic. If you can find a difference, please, let me know?"

Because before the Ghettos and the concentration camps there were militant Jews launching 30 rockets per day into civilian German settlements? And because every Palestinian is either being put into forced labor or getting in line for the gas chambers as we speak?

Quote :

"Some bloggers are calling it genocide. All news is calling it Israel defending itself. Weird."

Genocide is the complete annhilation of an individual group.
If Israel wanted to just wipe Palestinians off the map they could have done it already.
If Hamas had the means to wipe Iraelis off the map they would have done it already.



[Edited on January 16, 2009 at 1:55 PM. Reason : -]

1/16/2009 1:47:27 PM

If fucking Hamas was firing at the Israelis and then run into the UN then you better fucking believe the Israelis are gonna shoot it up. WTF, this isn't "tag".

Bang bang! Time out guys!!!

Quote :

"Aren't there plenty of modern missiles the Israelis could be using that exist solely to be so accurate as to eliminate virtually all collateral damage? I'm sure they're expensive, but dropping out overkill with a >30% civilian casualty rate isn't doing anyone any good."

Yeah thats not going to work when the fighters are intentionally mingling with civilians. Maybe, just maybe the Palestinians should do something about Hamas, since Hamas clearly places no value on the lives of Palestinians.

1/16/2009 2:18:00 PM

Actually, Israel is doing a lot to try and use smart weapons and other guided munitions to keep collateral damage to a minimum. However, the sheer number of munitions they're dropping combined with the high population density in Gaza as well as Hamas tactics of blending with the civilians is going to lead to very high casualties no matter what they do.

Also, there seems to be a rift in Hamas leadership. Hamas officials in Gaza who are experiencing first hand the Israeli wrath and watch civilians die up front seem more than ready to talk ceasefire with the Israelis, but it seems that Hamas leadership hiding safely in Damascus are being defiant and urging continuing jihad against the Israelis.

1/16/2009 3:00:55 PM

^^^

Quote :

" Because before the Ghettos and the concentration camps there were militant Jews launching 30 rockets per day into civilian German settlements? "

Actually it was the same case for Palestinian before 1979 (When Israel occupied Gaza strip), no terrorist attacks. But similar to Jews (http://www.tampabay.com/features/movies/article967227.ece) they decided not to surrender.

Quote :

" And because every Palestinian is either being put into forced labor or getting in line for the gas chambers as we speak? "

True! But there is more than 5 millions Palestinians refugee around the world. Most of Palestinian in Gaza now are not from there and were driven to Gaza by the Israeli Army in 1948, whom lived for the last three years under blockade of all life necessities (food, medicine, fuel, etc), and with 50% unemployment rate, and 80% with food needs. And while we are talking, they are under enormous horror and attacks, and without safe heaven.

Quote :

" Genocide is the complete annhilation of an individual group. "

Wrong! United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (CPPCG). Article 2, of this convention defines genocide as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

Quote :

" If Israel wanted to just wipe Palestinians off the map they could have done it already. "

Wrong again! Nazi regime was more powerful and couldn't even it tried so hard to. International community (including Egypt by this time) fought against it and defeat it!

Quote :

" If Hamas had the means to wipe Iraelis off the map they would have done it already. "

As far as I know Palestine is what wiped from the map already! And the problem is not Hamas as this happened several time before since 1948 and 1979. If it is Hamas, then this is an easy problem to solve!

Finally what I would like to say that all the discussion here, rather than being educational and make our point of views more close, will not solve any problem in the middle east. Israel cannot wipe Palestine and no one in the region want to wipe Israel. What we all should work at, is to address the humanitarian needs in Gaza now and work together for a real peace in the region. Similar to what Egypt and Israel did in 1978 agreement, that was based upon fairness.

[Edited on January 16, 2009 at 3:10 PM. Reason : )]

[Edited on January 16, 2009 at 3:29 PM. Reason : )]

1/16/2009 3:09:18 PM

That's right folks, for the past five years there's been no food in Gaza and there damn sure isn't any now!



Oh wait.

1/16/2009 3:31:43 PM

^

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L911226.htm

This will be my last post here, no more arguing. I will not continue doing this, so much talk nothing done for people in a great suffering (Yes we are not helping both Israeli and Palestinian)!

Against all odds I believe peace will be achieved in middle east once they stop arguing and think how to make peace. I will start with doing this by myself!

1/16/2009 3:47:42 PM

^^^ There are so many things wrong with your comparisons it's hard to pick what needs to be pointed out. I will simply start with this one because it's the easiest.

Quote :

"no one in the region want to wipe Israel"

This is not only completely untrue, but explicitly stated by Hamas and many of the other terrorist organizations in the area. It is a fundamental point of their beliefs that Israel should not exist.

[Edited on January 16, 2009 at 3:50 PM. Reason : ^]

1/16/2009 3:49:55 PM

Israel is gonna push it as hard as they can until Tuesday. they will ignore all else until then.

Quote :

"since Hamas clearly places no value on the lives of Palestinians."

this has been true for quiet some time....

[Edited on January 16, 2009 at 4:22 PM. Reason : s]

1/16/2009 4:21:41 PM

Quote :

"This is not only completely untrue, but explicitly stated by Hamas and many of the other terrorist organizations in the area. It is a fundamental point of their beliefs that Israel should not exist"

Not only that, this was official policy for pretty much every Arab nation up until about 25 years ago. I have no doubt that most Arab leaders would jump at the chance of taking out Israel if they could. They just learned that they aren't able to through conventional military means, but the moment Israel is vulnerable...

1/16/2009 6:33:38 PM

which is exactly why Israel has to react so harshly to threats, no matter how minor they are.

1/16/2009 9:33:45 PM

Ok, Hate-em (because when it comes to Israelis you obviously do). Gimpy started it off, I'll just continue off of why your arguments are so far off the mark its getting ridiculous:

Quote :

"Most of Palestinian in Gaza now are not from there and were driven to Gaza by the Israeli Army in 1948"

Wrong. Any Arab who stayed within the Israeli borders (as marked by Britain and the UN) was given full rights as an Israeli citizen. The so called "refugees" of 1948 you refer to left their homes of their own accord or legally sold their property to the Jewish immigrants coming in. There wasn't even such thing as a "Palestinian" before this point, they were just Arabs living in the British province known as Palestine.

Quote :

"50% unemployment rate, and 80% with food needs"

Palestinians had the chance to elect a real government and leadership to meet the needs of the people and build an actual infrastructure. Instead, they voted in a militant group that doesn't give a fuck about helping the people, and only want to focus on Israel's distruction. Israel was ready to help the new government kick off and wanted to see Palestine become a modernized democracy that they could work with as a political partner, but Hamas wanted nothing to do with it.

Quote :

"Nazi regime was more powerful and couldn't even it tried so hard to."

Because the Nazis were fighting a 2-front war at the same time as building their system of death camps. They spread out their resources too much and failed at both world domination and wiping out the Jewish people. If Israel wanted to focus all its resources on the genocide of all Palestinians, it would have been done already. Israel is only targeting militant terrorist leaders but Hamas keeps putting innocent people in the way.

Quote :

"International community (including Egypt by this time) fought against it and defeat it!"

Bullshit. There were many Arabs, most notably Hajj Amin al-Husayni, who were asking for the Nazis to come through the Middle East and clear out the Jews and the British. The only people in Egypt fighting against the Nazis were the British who were stationed there. So don't pretend like the Egyptian people were trying to help out. Egypt also harbored al-Husayni for a number of years even though the international community had labeled him a terrorist and called for his imprisonment.

Quote :

"Similar to what Egypt and Israel did in 1978 agreement, that was based upon fairness."

In any war, the winner always accumulates land (except in cases of a tie, like 1812). Egypt attacked Israel, Israel fought them off, and then as the winner took the Sinai Peninsula. As a peace offering, Israel gave it back, and the two countries have had no hostilities towards each other since. Israel took hold of Gaza and in 2006 did the same thing: offered to give back the land in order to bring about peace. So the government ordered all the Israelis out of Gaza, settlers and troops included, in hope that it would end the attacks. But did it stop Hamas and other militant organizations from within Gaza from continuing their ongoing mission to destroy Israel? Not one bit. Israel gave the land back and got nothing for it, and is now in a worse state of security than before.

So there you have it, Hate-em. Nothing I have written in this post is my opinion or based on any bias, all of it is historical fact.

Quote :

"If it is Hamas, then this is an easy problem to solve!"

Hamas has the ability to stop this whole thing. So why aren't you calling for an end of authoritative rule of Gaza by militant terrorists? Why are you focusing all your efforts in pointing out Israel's faults without putting any of the blame on the cause? Why is there no demand for Mahmoud Abbas, the official President of Palestine, to take back control of the government and to stop letting himself get pushed around?

Because the world doesn't care about peace, the world thrives on death.

1/17/2009 10:00:09 AM

Quote :

"The so called "refugees" of 1948 you refer to left their homes of their own accord"

Really? Wow... how generous of them! They just wanted to give the homes and lands to the Jews, right? Then why do they want it back?

I am sure them leaving their ancestral homes, farms, and lands had nothing to do with Jewish/Israeli terrorists who pushed them out, either through threats of eradication or with actual killings of innocents.

Wait wat? Jewish/Israeli terrorism??? Don't be anti-semitic man...! There is no such thing.

1/17/2009 1:04:39 PM

Quote :

" "Aren't there plenty of modern missiles the Israelis could be using that exist solely to be so accurate as to eliminate virtually all collateral damage? I'm sure they're expensive, but dropping out overkill with a >30% civilian casualty rate isn't doing anyone any good." "

The accuracy isn't the problem. I suspect that they're almost exclusively using the magical precision guided munitions that you're talking about, but if a bomb causes fatalities within hundreds of feet, adding the ability to drop it within a matter of feet of where you want doesn't make it a completely surgical weapon.


I don't really like Israel, but I dislike Hamas much, much more.

1/17/2009 1:42:59 PM

^^Actually they left because of their own people. They received word that Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan were all planning an attack and that if they left their homes then they could come back in after the Israelis were wiped out. Unfortunately for them it didn't work out that way.

If I knew of an attack on the US and I fled to Canada to wait it out, do you think I'd be welcomed back in?

1/17/2009 1:55:18 PM

^^ I don't hate Hamas, Palestinian, Israeli, and certainly don't hate Jewish people. Though I hate some of their actions. I hate killing childrens, women and civilians. Moreover I hate killing the legal dreams of people to have future and past (the american dream, as I define it).

I don't hate any one on this list, though he might think he hate me! I even enjoy arguing with you all, neverthless I dont have time for arguing. I believe everyone here is well informed about what is going in the Middle East in the last 50 years, and using the same old arguments. Some of them are true, and many of them are false, and the final result is more war and more innocent people killed. (i.e. for your example Duke , before discussing how accurate Israel is targeting militant indviduals, we should see U.N.'s invistigation against Israel's army for using banned weapons and war crimes, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7831424.stm, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7835050.stm). And that is why I decided not to post in this thread anymore.

I think all of us should point out to the bad results from both sides, so we hate the war and not hate each other. By this time, we will be able to work together to achieve peace. It is so Nobile thing to work hard for.



[Edited on January 17, 2009 at 2:30 PM. Reason : (]

1/17/2009 2:25:08 PM

^

tmhatem:

Quote :

"This will be my last post here"

1/17/2009 2:32:43 PM

^

1/17/2009 5:13:11 PM

Israel declares cease-fire begining Sunday 2 a.m.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/01/17/israel.gaza/index.html

1/17/2009 5:21:08 PM

^ After allegedly killing 400 children, I doubt that impresses the violent elements Hamas too much.

1/17/2009 5:51:41 PM

Israel Declares Cease Fire; Hamas Says It Will Fight On

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/18/world/middleeast/18mideast.html

Will you idiots finally see the problem here? I underscored it for you.

[Edited on January 17, 2009 at 6:06 PM. Reason : PS: ]

1/17/2009 6:06:27 PM

Quote :

"The three-week conflict has killed 1,203 people in Gaza and injured more than 5,000 more, many of them Palestinian civilians, according to medical sources in Gaza City. They said 410 children have died. "

Only an idiot wouldn't be able to see why Hamas feels the need to keep fighting.

1/17/2009 6:10:18 PM

hamas started it moron

jesus do we have to re-do the entire thread?

1/17/2009 6:23:57 PM

I don't trust Hamas. Israel is giving the cease-fire without any guarantee of a return, not unlike the pullout in 2006. Olmert says that if Hamas keeps firing then Israel will continue to respond. Since Hamas likes seeing Israel respond, I wouldn't put it past them to continue firing missiles throughout the night.

The bastards were even firing while Olmert was giving his cease-fire speech.

1/17/2009 6:29:28 PM

^^ It's that type of naivete and shortsightedness that has resulted in this conflict going on as long as it has. This isn't an elementary school playground. If the issue was so black/white, it would have ended decades ago.

It's irrelevant at this point how it started. I bet Hamas has to keep telling themselves it was Israel that "started it" 50 years ago.

^ this is a calculated move on Israel's part. Israel has been talking for the past week how it's absurd for the world to expect them to stop fighting, now they stop. You too are naive to think this is simple generosity. This is a calculated, tactical move. Their next steps are even more critical.

[Edited on January 17, 2009 at 6:36 PM. Reason : ]

1/17/2009 6:34:27 PM

^Actually, the British started it 80 years ago...

1/17/2009 6:35:56 PM

Quote :

"It's irrelevant at this point how it started."

1/17/2009 6:36:37 PM

^ What matters now is how to stop the violence. Hamas could end it today if they would just stop firing rockets and/or launching other attacks. It's quite simple.

1/17/2009 6:41:21 PM

^Exactly. Israel has put the ball in Hamas' hands. They can either put it down and call game over, or they can strap a bomb to it and throw it back.

1/17/2009 6:43:12 PM

^^ If stopping the violence was Israel's goal, they would have had the ceasefire a week ago. There is more to this than you seem to want to think.

1/17/2009 6:45:10 PM

It is now 2am Jerusalem time. Let's see how this goes.

1/17/2009 7:02:31 PM

http://www.reuters.com/article/vcCandidateFeed2/idUSLH185764

Reuters has a run-down on some of Isrl's possible motivation.

1/17/2009 7:32:50 PM

http://www.reuters.com/article/vcCandidateFeed2/idUSTRE5053R720090118

Hamas has apparently stopped rocket fire, but there's no word on their position on an official ceasefire.

Meanwhile, Israel seems to be trying to troll Hamas.

Quote :

""If our enemies decide the blows they've been dealt are not sufficient and they are interested in continuing the fight, Israel will be prepared for such and feel free to continue to react with force.""

[Edited on January 18, 2009 at 12:56 AM. Reason : ]

1/18/2009 12:50:59 AM

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/01/israel_destroys_hamas_iranian.asp

Quote :

" The so-called "Iranian Unit" of Hamas has been destroyed, according to Gaza sources cited Thursday by the Haaretz daily. The sources said most of the unit's 100 members were killed in fighting in the Zeytun neighborhood of Gaza City. The terrorists had been trained in infantry tactics, the use of anti-tank missiles and the detonation of explosives, among other skills, by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard at Hizbullah camps in Lebanon's Beka'a Valley, as well as sites in Iran........ .......The IDF would be well served to redouble efforts against Hamas's military before the cease-fire is signed. Not only would this improve the Israel's position at the negotiating table, this will make Hamas's job of retaining power in Gaza difficult."

1/18/2009 10:41:54 AM

Quote :

"^ What matters now is how to stop the violence. Hamas could end it today if they would just stop firing rockets and/or launching other attacks. It's quite simple."

Sure they could stop the attacks and go back to living in Israeli-enforced poverty.

1/18/2009 10:57:28 AM

Quote :

"(i.e. for your example Duke , before discussing how accurate Israel is targeting militant indviduals"

My point was in response to someone's assertion that Israel should be using precision guided weapons so as to surgically target only militants. That's just not how bombs work. Sure, you can guide it to within a matter of a few feet or meters of where you want, but if it causes casualties within a radius of hundreds of meters, it's still not that precise (although it's a helluva lot better than the alternative...the days before the JDAM, GBU, etc). I'm sure that Israel IS using precision bombs and missiles pretty much exclusively.

^ or they can keep doing what they're doing and continue to die in bunches. If they'd play it cool, they might not get what they want immediately, but they'd immediately stop getting killed--and I firmly believe that they'd accomplish a lot more of their goals over time, as they proved their sincere goodwill. they're like a younger brother that continues to provoke you over and over again until you rough him up just like you said you would if he didn't stop and leave you alone. I don't see what's so tough to figure out--if you have been lobbing rockets and mortars at Israel for several decades now, and have accomplished little other than getting thousands of yourselves killed and a bunch of your houses bulldozed, maybe it's time to approach the problem from a different angle.

Quote :

"It's irrelevant at this point how it started. I bet Hamas has to keep telling themselves it was Israel that "started it" 50 years ago. "

You are certainly correct in that it's irrelevent how it started. You can't define the starting point at 50 years ago...or 80 years ago...or whatever. The starting point was relatively shortly after the beginning of human civilization, and so at this point, you might as well simply consider the situation at hand, and that is that Israel occupies that land. Sure, I sympathize with the plight of some of the Palestinians, but what are you gonna do? I think that Israel should try to be as accomodating as possible, but how accomodating can you really be with the people they're dealing with?

The way I view it, the land has changed hands an untold number of times, so I don't really care about who has rightful claim to it other than who has it right now, because that's where I'm working from. Israel, while certainly overly heavyhanded at times, has been more willing to negotiate and compromise, and they don't indiscriminately blow themselves up in bus stations or launch mortars or rockets into Palestinian neighborhoods. They're bad, but they're less bad in every way than their enemies, so I side with them.


[Edited on January 18, 2009 at 11:01 AM. Reason : asfd]

[Edited on January 18, 2009 at 11:17 AM. Reason : asfd]

1/18/2009 10:58:47 AM

Quote :

"Sure they could stop the attacks and go back to living in Israeli-enforced poverty."

And there's about 1200 of them who don't even have THAT option anymore.

1/18/2009 11:04:22 AM

The fact of the matter is, if any TSB conservative lived in Gaza they'd either be firing rockets or cheering on Hamas. When you live under the steel boot of your hated enemies (who are heavily funded by their foreign big brother) and in complete squalor and poverty, you'd likely want to strike out. Imagine for a second that an innocent loved one of yours was killed in a "surgical strike" by Israel; "collateral damage". Would any of you seriously sit here and tell me you'd respond with "well I'm sure Israel had a good reason" rather than with explosives?

1/18/2009 11:05:06 AM

Sure, I've posed the same questions to myself, and yes, I'd be in a rage...but I don't live in Gaza. I have the ability to look at the situation from the outside and make a reasonable assessment, and that is that when people play it cool, Israel doesn't blow anyone up. When people play it cool, Israel at least makes more concessions and compromise than their enemies are willing to make, and they are a lot better about holding up their end of the deal.

I mean, you can play that game in the other direction, too. After about the 50th time some asshole shelled your neighborhood, you'd probably react in what we consider a brutal and heavyhanded manner, too. I mean, what if Cary went rogue and started rocketing, mortaring, shooting up, and blowing stuff up in Raleigh and all of the surrounding towns? Let's say this went on for a few decades on a fairly regular basis...you have to wear a flak vest when walking or driving around your neighborhood. What would you say when the governor finally said "Alright, I give up. If they want to fight, let them fight the NC National Guard and get butchered."

1/18/2009 1:00:44 PM

^^Imagine for a second you legally purchased land in the middle of a desert and then worked your ass off for 30 years to help build a new community with irrigation, plumbing, electricity, and so many other innovations that had never existed in that area before. Now imagine that suddenly someone else decides you don't have a right to the land anymore (even though you bought it from the previous owner), and wants to take it back from you and reap the benefits of your hard labor. You refuse to give it up, and so this someone else launches a rocket into your backyard and your child loses a leg.


The child losing a leg was my cousin. Did he deserve it? Should his government let it happen to more children? Or should they be doing something about it for the safety of their own people?

Oh well, I guess the Palestinian terrorist had good reason...right?

1/18/2009 2:35:24 PM

Quote :

"Imagine for a second you legally purchased land..."

Argument fails.

1/18/2009 2:39:34 PM

^ GG.

Quote :

"^^Imagine for a second you legally purchased inherited land in the middle of a desert and then worked your ass off for 30 1,000+ years to help build a new community "

[raises hand]

Oh wait mister, wait, I know the answer!!!

Is that like the centuries old olive trees belonging to Palestinians that are uprooted and bulldozed by Israelis to build internationally illegal settlements, walls, and fences??? The only source of livelihood for a lot of families. And citrus trees as well.


[Edited on January 18, 2009 at 2:53 PM. Reason : ]

1/18/2009 2:48:17 PM

1000+? So wait, the Palestinians of today have been there 1000+ years building communities? And here I was thinking that it was the British, Ottomans, and Byzantines who built up the few civilizations that actually existed in the region prior to 1890 when the first mass immigration of Jews took place!

What a fool I was!

I guess the Romans, Greeks, Persians, Babylonians, Assyrians, and ancient Israelites had nothing to do with it either.

[Edited on January 18, 2009 at 3:05 PM. Reason : -]

1/18/2009 3:04:21 PM

For the last 1000 years, who was LIVING there?

Brits?
Turks?
Byzantines?

No, it was Arabs. If I am wrong about that, please show me.

Quote :

"I guess the Romans, Greeks, Persians, Babylonians, Assyrians, and ancient Israelites had nothing to do with it either."

Stop putting words into my mouth. Did I say that?

I said 1000 years, not 2000 years.


[Edited on January 18, 2009 at 3:12 PM. Reason : ]

1/18/2009 3:11:17 PM

Quote :

"ancient Israelites"

If you believe the bible, the Israelites took the land from others to begin with. (Although I find this unlikely, and think they probably just interbred with the previous inhabitants.)

Anyway, the land's been Muslim for all of modern history(1300 years). All it's neighbors remain Muslim. The Jewish population was less than 10% until World War II.

The zionists picked a shitty place to make a "home"land, and were only able to succeed with western military might.

1/18/2009 3:15:47 PM

Get out of my land, before I kill you with my mighty gifted weapons!

But, I was born here, so was my father, and my grandfather, and in fact, all my ancestors for 1,300 years!

Enough! My ancestors from 2,000 years ago used to live here, so it belongs to me! Out, you filthy terrorists!

But wait, didn't your ancestors kill the people living here at the time, and take it from them?

Look, God gave us this land... so get out, doesn't matter who lives here now, who lived here 1000 years ago, or 2000 years ago, or before that! We are THE CHOSEN PEOPLE... chosen by God and chosen by the strongest country in the world!!!

1/18/2009 3:35:45 PM

Guys keep religion out. It is enough what we are doing here! Are you really discussing who was living there, I thought it is historically documented. Google it or visit the wiki-page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine#Iron_Age_.281200.E2.80.93330_BCE.29).

Who lived there from early days are Canaanite and several tribes around them! Sons of Israel joined them after leaving Egypt. The area was ruled by who ever dominate the old world (Egyptians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Babylonians, Assyrians, Muslims), never been a part of the real population. People there were joined by continuous immigration going on the region for thousands of years. Religion of the population changed from old religions, to Jewish in part, to Christianity as a whole, to Islam in part. Those are the Palestinians.

Sons of Israel suffered several occasions that might cause them to emigrate in part from the region (Never from Muslims ruling the area). Though, large part of Jewish immigrated to Israel in the last 70 years are not the sons of Israel, they are Jewish coming from Russia, Europe, Africa, etc.

This about history, the problem now is to find a place for Palestinian (5 millions refugee + 4 millions living in Gaza and west bank). Those people are looking for an identity, history, future and a country to call it home. Apparently they must live with who are living today in Israel and Jewish who would like to join in the future. There is enough space for everyone, but the good will to do so is what we should try to find.

~ bdmazur: Sorry for your loss. More war will make more losses, and will not make any one better (already 412 Palestinian children killed in last 3 weeks only, and thousands were injured without enough medical resources to help them!). Peace, on the other hand, will save life and make us work together to make better life and technologies for your cousin and everyone else.



[Edited on January 18, 2009 at 4:37 PM. Reason : ]

1/18/2009 4:16:27 PM

Quote :

"Imagine for a second you legally purchased land in the middle of a desert and then worked your ass off for 30 years to help build a new community with irrigation, plumbing, electricity, and so many other innovations that had never existed in that area before. Now imagine that suddenly someone else decides you don't have a right to the land anymore (even though you bought it from the previous owner), and wants to take it back from you and reap the benefits of your hard labor. You refuse to give it up, and so this someone else launches a rocket into your backyard and your child loses a leg. The child losing a leg was my cousin. Did he deserve it? Should his government let it happen to more children? Or should they be doing something about it for the safety of their own people? "

Vengeance and peace are mutually exclusive goals. Do you not realize that the anger you are feeling is felt by a thousands more on the other side? Do you think creating that type of anger is going to help to aide in peace, or deter it?

1/18/2009 5:23:40 PM

They should just kill every man, woman and child in Gaza, erase the Gaza borders and put up some mini malls.

1/18/2009 7:51:27 PM

Are you related to Hitler?

1/18/2009 7:57:01 PM

Great-grandfather!

1/18/2009 8:00:36 PM