As far as I know, and maybe it was posted up there, but if the nuc option is used, it basically will mean that nothing will get done in congress for years. Maybe it's up there, I didn't see it

9/10/2009 4:53:49 PM

Ok, to be fair, it's not "slanted." They clearly stated that in this particular random sampling, that happened to be the way the numbers worked out. It's not really any less scientific than any other random poll (which are not ever scientific). A random sampling is a random sampling, though it would be nice to see polls involving just republicans, just democrats, and just independents. Also, they're very clear about this limitation:

Quote :

"The audience for the speech appears to be more Democratic than the U.S. population as a whole. Because of this, the results may favor Obama simply because more Democrats than Republicans tune into the speech. The poll surveyed the opinions of people who watched Wednesday night's speech, and does not reflect the views of all Americans."

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/09/10/cnn-poll-double-digit-post-speech-jump-for-obama-plan/

Quote :

"Our best estimate of the number of Democrats in the voting age population as a whole indicates that the sample is about 8-10 points more Democratic than the population as a whole."

Oh, and for good measure

Quote :

"Joe also has been a member of the Columbia World Affairs Council, Fellowship of Christian Athletes, Sinclair Lodge 154, Jamil Temple, Woodmen of the World, Sons of Confederate Veterans, ....This is an organization that, as the SPLC has detailed assiduously, has been taken over in the past decade by radical neo-Confederates who favor secession and defend slavery as a benign institution. Leading the takeover is a radical racist named Kirk Lyons, who's been an important legal figure on the far right for some years.*"

http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/did-you-wonder-why-boustany-gave-repu

[Edited on September 10, 2009 at 5:10 PM. Reason : .]

9/10/2009 5:06:23 PM

Quote :

"Please stop trying to use slanted polls as the truth. It doesn't help you and makes you look even more like a Flavor Aid drinker"

It was a random sample.

I'm sorry no one wants to admit they're a Republican anymore.




^ And it goes on:

Quote :

"Congressman Charles Boustany’s more colorful lawsuits suing con artists who told him he could become a British Lord and suing a construction company for “mental anguish” over a pool resurfacing job shouldn’t overshadow the fact that Boustany has been sued for medical malpractice by eight patients. Boustany was found at fault by the Louisiana Medical Review Panel twice – including a two-year old child Boustany performed an unnecessary and debilitating heart operation on and a woman whose right leg was amputated as the result of complications from surgery – and patients were awarded damages totaling nearly $2 million."

[Edited on September 10, 2009 at 6:09 PM. Reason : ]

9/10/2009 6:05:20 PM

Quote :

"and Joe Wilson's challenger has raised almost $100k online since the speech last night."

The irony being Joe Wilson's challenge had some merit. Unlike, say (and I'm just thinking off the cuff here) . . . Nancy Pelosi's charge that the CIA lied to congress. Which she never backed up. Which she was let off the hook for.*


You know though, I could use some more of that. The House at least should be a bit more rowdy and I, for one, would love to see the President have to address them monthly for a British "Question Time" style engagement.

Clinton would handle it masterfully, Bush would . . . well Bush would refer to himself as the decider. Obama, I think, would have the most trouble of the three.



*And for the record, my problem isn't with one party or the other, but the fact that the press let her get away with it.

9/10/2009 6:11:47 PM

http://www.actblue.com/entity/fundraisers/19079

I've been watching this off & on throughout the day to see where the contribution total is at. SC GOP Republican Congressman Joe the shouter Wilson helped his opponent raise over half a million dollars in under 24 hours & its still growing. In his challenge in the last campaign half a million was the total his opponent raised throughout the whole campaign.

9/10/2009 6:36:36 PM

^^ I don’t know…

Obama did very well during the debates, so I don’t really think he buckles under pressure too easily. I do agree though Clinton would handle it well, but I think Obama would certainly handle it better than Bush.

9/10/2009 6:53:03 PM

The "debates" you mean. To call them actual debates is a joke.


He does well when he stays on message, which that debate format will let you do, but when he goes toe to toe, like he had to with HRC for a while, he looses his sheen. He is also a legislative and policy lightweight so he doesn't do well with details, and question time would force him to deal in details.

9/10/2009 7:27:08 PM

yeah, those debates were designed for soundbites and a 24-hour news cycle, nothing more substantive. most candidates just want you to read hundreds of pages of "platform" on their websites nowadays, which no one does.

9/10/2009 8:24:26 PM

<script src="http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/js/2.0/video/evp/module.js?loc=dom&vid=/video/politics/2009/09/09/dcl.steinhauser.post.speech.cnn" type="text/javascript"></script>

You can see a little bit of it here, but did the republican response feel a little bit just in terms of atmosphere & with the person they chose to give the response like any moment there he was going to say Live, from New York, Its Saturday Night!!!

9/10/2009 11:59:38 PM

and of course I shouldn't have entrusted clicking the button to copy the embed script to result in something that would just embed the video

It can be seen as a part of this link:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/09/10/cnn-poll-double-digit-post-speech-jump-for-obama-plan/

9/11/2009 1:37:08 AM

Quote :

"Libertarians respond to President Obama's health care speech Remind voters about Republican-initiated government-run health care plans WASHINGTON - In the wake of President Obama's speech to Congress, America's third-largest party wants to remind voters about Republican support for government-run health care plans. William Redpath, chairman of the Libertarian National Committee (LNC) commented, "Make no mistake, the Libertarian Party is opposed to President Obama's health care plans, and his speech last night has not budged us. But we also opposed Republican plans for big-government health care, many of which have been implemented in recent years." In 2003, President Bush and the Republican Congress enacted a Medicare prescription drug expansion. It was originally expected to cost $400 billion, but just two years later the cost was revised upward to $1.2 trillion. In 2006, Republican Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney supported and signed a bill that required all residents to purchase health insurance, and increased state health insurance funding. In 2007, Republican Texas Governor Rick Perry issued an executive order to force sixth-grade schoolgirls to receive HPV vaccinations. This year, congressional Republicans put forward the "Patients' Choice Act of 2009," which would increase federal government spending and control of health care in a variety of ways. The Libertarian Party has put a poll on on its home page to allow voters to choose which Republican plan is the most hypocritical. Redpath said, "Republicans are living in glass houses when they complain about the President's health care plans and the bills in the Democratic-controlled Congress." Redpath continued, "It's time for President Obama to be intellectually honest, himself, and to stop inferring that his ideas of health care reform are the only ones out there. With neither of the major parties is there any serious discussion about letting individuals control their own health care dollars, moving away from employer-provided health insurance, and increasing competition among insurance companies by letting people purchase health insurance across state lines and among providers by taking a good, long look at medical education and licensure laws to allow potential providers to freely respond to health consumers' needs." Redpath continued, "But, before the President and the Gang of 535 even do that, it would be refreshing to at least hear them debate whether the federal government is empowered to be in the middle of all of this. An honest reading of the Constitution might stimulate the right move -- punting this to the states and the people." The Libertarian Party favors a free market health care system. The party's platform states, "We favor restoring and reviving a free market health care system. We recognize the freedom of individuals to determine the level of health insurance they want, the level of health care they want, the care providers they want, the medicines and treatments they will use and all other aspects of their medical care, including end-of-life decisions.""

9/11/2009 11:02:33 AM

The first thing I want in a company managing my health care is the pursuit of the highest profitability.

9/11/2009 11:22:25 AM

In regards to Joe Wilson calling Obama a liar, it's interesting to note that several times amendments have been voted on requiring that someone provide proof of citizenship to get healthcare. Interestingly enough, that amendment has been voted down every time.

moron, in regards to my comment on the last page...yes I'd like required basic health insurance, but not from the gov't. I don't want the gov't involved in offering health insurance.

9/11/2009 11:27:52 AM

^ how do you provide "proof of citizenship"?

What about resident aliens?

[Edited on September 11, 2009 at 11:31 AM. Reason : ]

9/11/2009 11:31:17 AM

Quote :

"Libertarians respond to President Obama's health care speech"

It didn't even occur to me that Libertarians did this too - responding to joint session addresses/state of the unions. Who spoke on behalf of the Libertarians & was this a public speech or an e-mail that was sent out? I know the Republicans carefully selected who they wanted to speak for them in their televised response? Assuming they usually do this, do you have the transcript of their response to President Obama's first joint session speech that was given as a new guys version of the State of the Union?

9/11/2009 12:04:01 PM

Joe Wilson made me laugh, so he's cleared of all wrongdoing in my mind.

9/11/2009 12:12:29 PM

Turns out Wilson also called Strom Thurmond's love child a LIAR, too.

9/11/2009 12:15:37 PM

Quote :

"Who spoke on behalf of the Libertarians & was this a public speech or an e-mail that was sent out?"

They sent out an email to the listserv and the first guy to reply gets to send out the response to the press.

9/11/2009 12:26:25 PM

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/09/11/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5302288.shtml

Sorry for posting this in three threads, but it's relevant to all the discussions.

9/11/2009 12:30:01 PM

Quote :

"Sorry for posting this in three threads, but it's relevant to all the discussions."

No complaints here from this thread's maker. There are a wealth of President Obama & Health Care reform threads floating about right now.



I thought this image that you posted in another thread was interesting too. I was listening to NPR the other day, and they had a segment that discussed this speech in particular, and also Bill Clinton & his health care reform efforts saying that he gave his speech much too early in the game and by the time that congress was ready to move on it all the speech-bump had disappeared, and thus was unable to lubricate the process to make passing the reforms easier which contributed in part to its failure. To that end they reasoned it might be a better tactic the way President Obama did it closer to when the action is going to happen.

Then later that day I caught a bit of Keith Olbermann's Countdown show & he was saying President Obama should have given this speech a month ago & couldn't understand why he had waited so long, which I found rather amusing.

9/11/2009 2:21:34 PM

hehe. lubricate sounds a bit right

9/11/2009 2:50:22 PM

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/poll_health_care_091109.pdf?tag=contentMain;contentBody

Quote :

"As is often the case in Presidential addresses, Americans who watched the speech were more likely to be from the president’s own political party. 42% of speech watchers identified themselves as Democrats, 27% were Republicans and 31% were independents."

at least they admit the bias

good job with another slanted poll, Boone. keep 'em comin'

9/11/2009 2:58:54 PM

whoopsiedaisies

[Edited on September 11, 2009 at 3:06 PM. Reason : thxs burro]

9/11/2009 2:58:54 PM

OMFG DOUBLE POST!!!

Quote :

"BAN SUSPEND TERMINATE"

9/11/2009 3:02:32 PM

Quote :

" at least they admit the bias good job with another slanted poll, Boone. keep 'em comin'"

Your point appears to be that most people who watched the speech were Democrats & independents rather than Republicans, so their response doesn't accurately reflect an over all American public opinion stands at this point. But I think you are taking that point too far and trying to apply it to all the polling data.

I think you've misunderstood the article & polls Boone posted. The second chart looks to be showing the reaction of speech watchers vs the reaction of the general poll.

From the article: "The day after Mr. Obama's congressional address, CBS re-interviewed 678 adults first questioned in a poll conducted August 27-31. "

If these people were polled well before the speech then I don't see how the results are slanted since they aren't picking these people out on the basis of who has already watched the speech.

[Edited on September 11, 2009 at 5:58 PM. Reason : .]

9/11/2009 5:56:56 PM

9/11/2009 6:35:46 PM

9/11/2009 9:40:23 PM

anyone want to add explanations or commentary to their recent pictures, or is this just turning into a visual arts thread?

9/11/2009 10:22:11 PM

^^

waah?

9/11/2009 10:43:47 PM

Quote :

"Congressman Joe the shouter Wilson helped his opponent raise over half a million dollars in under 24 hours "

Looks like they are both raking it in from Joe's shout-out....

Quote :

"S.C.'s Wilson Rakes In $750,000 in Less Than 48 Hours; Opponent Tops $1 Million Updated 7:50 p.m. By Paul Kane, Capitol Briefing With a political arms race in full force, Rep. Joe Wilson (R-S.C.) has raised almost $750,000 in less than 48 hours since his shout of "You lie!" to President Obama during the Wednesday address to Congress, almost matching the Internet-fueled haul of his likely Democratic opponent. "

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/2009/09/scs_wilson_rakes_in_750000_in.html

Quote :

" Who spoke on behalf of the Libertarians & was this a public speech or an e-mail that was sent out? ... do you have the transcript of their response to President Obama's first joint session speech that was given as a new guys version of the State of the Union?"

This was the comment posted on the National Libertarian website by William Redpath, chairman of the Libertarian National Committee. http://www.lp.org

As to the Libertarian response to Pres. Obama's 1st State of the Union speech. I couldn't find anything official...But this was written by Dr. Charles Kennedy at his libertarian website "United Liberty.org. I think he sums up the general libertarian opinion pretty well on the speech....

Quote :

"The best thing I can recommend is, read it for yourself, and be sure to read between the lines, so to speak. The whole thing was very crafty, very clever, and quite deceptive, filled with all kinds of fallacies and complete misunderstandings. Obviously the President has no clue about monetary policy, or how a true free market works, and he really believes the government is smart enough to know how resources ought to be allocated and which enterprises should be encouraged (or allowed) to flourish. All he is promising is more central planning, more welfarism, more corporatism, and more coercion. None of this has anything to do with the American traditions of ingenuity, individual initiative, and self-reliance. Nowhere in his speech did he make any mention of individual liberty, natural rights, or the Constitution. On the other hand, he did make occasional references to the “full force” of the federal government. Yes, the words “full force” are the key to understanding what is truly at work in the President’s blueprint for America."

[Edited on September 11, 2009 at 11:12 PM. Reason : ..]

9/11/2009 10:48:57 PM

^got a link for that? I'd be interested in reading the rest

Also I had a question directed towards you, without referencing you directly, posted at "9/11/2009 12:04:01 PM" if you happen to know the answers to it.

9/11/2009 10:54:49 PM

Just wanted to point out that it looks like FOX made the right call.

Quote :

"Fox, which aired 'So You Think You Can Dance' instead of the speech, attracted 6.5 million viewers. Fox clearly didn't suffer by passing on the president in prime-time for the third time in a row. (Both Fox News and Fox Business aired the speech). Looking at the ratings, TVbytheNumbers points out that 'Fox easily won the night dominating the adults 18-49 and adults 18-34 demos.' When Fox aired 'SYTYCD' instead of Obama's prime-time presser in July, the network brought in more viewers than each of the other three networks, which had a combined 16.5 million viewers."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/michaelcalderone/0909/Obama_draws_21_million_across_Big_Three.html

Quote :

"Obama remarked Thursday on Fox's decision, but noted that 'So You Think You Can Dance' is 'a show Michelle likes, by the way.'"

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation-world/bal-te.ratings11sep11,0,7888767.story

9/21/2009 2:28:31 AM

^
From your first link:

Quote :

"President Obama drew 21.2 million viewers last night to his joint address before Congress across NBC (8.16), ABC (7.4) and CBS (5.63)..."

Quote :

"Fox... attracted 6.5 million viewers."

He has at least improved his viewership since his speech in July.


Not that I'm refuting any given point.

I just thought those details were worth mentioning.

[Edited on September 21, 2009 at 5:21 AM. Reason : ]

9/21/2009 5:15:19 AM

^ Understood. But Obama's actually way down in viewership from his previous numbers:

Quote :

"For Obama, who's headed to prime-time far more than his predecessors, the audience numbers have dropped since taking office, sure to lead some to conclude that the president is overexposed. Obama's first evening press conference, in February, drew 36.9 million viewers across the four major broadcast networks, and a total of 49.5 million when adding cable and other networks."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/michaelcalderone/0909/Obama_draws_21_million_across_Big_Three.html

9/21/2009 7:02:32 AM