The majority of cucumbers are pickled. What's your point motherfucker?

11/29/2009 8:04:43 PM

Six pages? Really? Really???

OK, so here's my problem with "The South shall rise again." It implies that at some point prior to losing the Civil War the south was somewhere good. Before that loss, the South was:

1) A slave-based economy build on the subjugation of enormous numbers of people based on the color of their skin
2) A place that seceded from the union
3) A relatively poor, backwards, uneducated region that was resistant to change

None of those are good things. Neither of those are things that we should aspire to. #1 is racist and #2 is treasonous (and #3 we pretty much still are, so we can't fucking well rise to it, now can we?)

I suppose for a while the phrase was OK. During reconstruction, when we had just been burned down and shit. But right now we're better off than we were before. We rose already.

---

I couldn't really care less about whether or not Ole Miss chants this particular piece of stupidity, I just wanted to make clear my position that it is, in fact, stupidity.

11/29/2009 8:21:38 PM

Is it treasonous to secede? More importantly, was it treasonous to secede in 1861? Before the civil war, there was a reason to believe that one's primary loyalty was to their state before the union

11/29/2009 9:30:18 PM

Quote :

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. -Thomas Jefferson"

this gov't is telling us what 'songs we should sing now'. ha. and trying to delegitamize our opinions and voices in the public square before they all but eliminate it. i'm ready for all out war/mortal kombat to begin vs. these freaks. hey at a bare minimum even if we lose (we wouldn't) they could have their perfect country where it's illegal to have opinions/traditions/folk songs that go against 100% 'fantasy world joeschmoe political correctness'.

11/29/2009 9:36:56 PM

Quote :

"this gov't is telling us what 'songs we should sing now'"

no, actually, it's not. but hey, don't let that stop you from getting a hard-on referencing video games and quentin tarantino flicks.

[Edited on November 29, 2009 at 10:01 PM. Reason : IT'S TIME FOR A REVOLUTION, PEOPLE! OBAMA WANTS TO TAKE AWAY MY GOD-GIVEN RIGHT TO BE RETARDED!]

11/29/2009 10:00:16 PM

Quote :

"Is it treasonous to secede?"

Yes.

By any reasonable definition, what the south did was treason.

You could maybe argue that, in some cases, treason is OK. But what the south did was and would today stand as treason.

11/29/2009 10:02:24 PM

The reason why we can't use the phrase "The South will rise again" literally is because Hollywood portrayals of Neo-Nazis and Confederate separatists use it figuratively. Nothing about slavery or the civil war is absolutely implied by the statement.

Quote :

"and #3 we pretty much still are, so we can't fucking well rise to it, now can we?"

Quote :

"But right now we're better off than we were before. We rose already."

Well did the South rise or didn't it? If you ask me, the South is still a relatively poor region (Mississippi is possibly the best example), so it didn't. If you can abide this phrase in the context of the Reconstruction, then why not abide it today in the same context?

[Edited on November 30, 2009 at 12:01 AM. Reason : .]

11/29/2009 11:59:40 PM

^^ prove it

11/30/2009 12:25:57 AM

good thing we didn't commit treason against his majesty and start a revolution. oh wait. had ta have dem slaves i guess!

11/30/2009 12:29:01 AM

Quote :

"good thing we didn't commit treason against his majesty and start a revolution."

We did commit treason against the crown when we had the revolution. One could argue, as I would, that in this case it was acceptable.

Quote :

"Well did the South rise or didn't it?"

Fair enough, I didn't put that very well.

We were never "above" the rest of the country in any useful sense of the word, so we can't rise to that level "again." We are, however, above and beyond what we were in 1860, even, I think, in relative terms.

In the one sense, we can't rise again, and in the other sense rise again. No matter which way you mean it, saying "The South shall rise again" is stupid.

11/30/2009 12:46:54 AM

Quote :

"We did commit treason against the crown when we had the revolution. One could argue, as I would, that in this case it was acceptable. "

I can't help but wonder, had the southern states been successful in establishing their own country and seceding from the US if you wouldn't also think it was acceptable then. History is after all, written by the winners.

11/30/2009 7:46:39 AM

ITT GrumpyGOP refuses to consider the fact that it was still an open question back then whether or not someone's true loyalties should lie with their state or with the union. Many confederate soldiers considered treason to be the betrayal of their state.

This debate has largely gone away now, so its easy to look back and criticize someone for being treasonous without any appreciation for the milieu in which they made their decision.

11/30/2009 8:33:29 AM

I don't give a shit what the chant says or why they say it. It's sad that anyone finds it acceptable that a University cares more about offending people than supporting free expression. It's sad that it has become de facto that anything racist or offending should be purged from the public eye. It's sad that our public universities have become propped up by affluent limp wrists that can throw their weight at the issue.

But mob rule, I guess. If a majority of Americans are in favor of only saying and hearing things that couldn't possibly offend, then we should all not say or do anything that could possibly offend...happy thoughts, happy thoughts, happy thoughts.

11/30/2009 8:39:41 AM

Quote :

"affluent limp wrists"

So now wealthy gay people are behind it? Way to go, defend racism by throwing in a little invective of your own. Classy.

11/30/2009 9:27:24 AM

"limp wrists" denoting their inability to stand something offensive. I was going to say "limp dicks", but I thought you'd get your panties in a twist.

11/30/2009 9:28:28 AM

I'm just sayin', if you wanna make a point, you can find a better way to do it. Being a dick for the sake of being a dick is your right, but you look pretty stupid.

But I love the similarity to this thread.

11/30/2009 9:29:59 AM

^^^It's that kind of knee-jerk misinterpretation that not only harms free speech, but also hurts the credibility of real racism claims.

11/30/2009 9:35:46 AM

^ I'm just pointing out his double standard. This discussion is swinging wildly into the bullshit realm anyway.

11/30/2009 9:44:13 AM

Quote :

"A slave-based economy build on the subjugation of enormous numbers of people based on the color of their skin"

You mean people enslaved by their fellow africans after rival clan conflicts; which were conviently located on an easy trade
route for trade ships going between europe and north america. Skin color had nothing to do with it and was merely an unfortuante
by-product of the ensuing slave epic. Slavery is wrong but get your facts straight. Whites did not start maurading the coast of Africa looking for blacks to kidnap in order to throw them on the slave ship.

Quote :

"A place that seceded from the union "

What is the problem with this?? At the time many of the southern states felt that they were unfairly reprensented in the government, much
like our ancestors who rebelled against england. President Lincoln won the office without receiving any electoral votes
from southern states. To those leaders within the south this meant that they were at the mercy of the wants and desires
of the northern states.

Quote :

"A relatively poor, backwards, uneducated region that was resistant to change"

sad but true however might does not equal right.

Quote :

"that one's primary loyalty was to their state before the union "

Quote :

""The South will rise again" literally is because Hollywood portrayals of Neo-Nazis and Confederate separatists use it figuratively. Nothing about slavery or the civil war is absolutely implied by the statement. "

exactly

[Edited on November 30, 2009 at 10:32 AM. Reason : a]

11/30/2009 10:31:17 AM

^^It has been since people started whining about how the university is suppressing people's right chant some offensive words at a game. We then established that no one was being forced to do (or not do) anything, the university just made the decision to stop playing the song. Then people continued to whine about violations of 1st amendment rights. When that argument got demolished repeatedly, it turned into "we shouldn't tell people to keep from say offensive things, even if not by force, because people should say whatever they want at all times and no one should ever criticize them for it because this is Amurrika." There really isn't much more to say about it.

[Edited on November 30, 2009 at 10:36 AM. Reason : Oh yeah, and we're also arguing about whether or not the civil war was about slavery]

11/30/2009 10:35:28 AM

One problem with many of the comments in this thread are the responses similar to this

"why should whites feel guilty about something that happened 150 years ago"

Slavery was not the only form of institutionalized racism. This continued up until 60 years ago and arguably existed much later other forms. It still exists privately everywhere.

May not change any opinions but I hate this thought that racism was so long ago, as if it is gone.

11/30/2009 11:39:38 AM

Quote :

"I can't help but wonder, had the southern states been successful in establishing their own country and seceding from the US if you wouldn't also think it was acceptable then."

And if we hadn't won independence I'd think George Washington was a dick. And if Germany had won WWII maybe I'd think Hitler was a swell guy (after all, I am nothing if not a chubby version of the Aryan ideal). And so on and so forth.

Unless you want to argue that maybe the rightness or wrongness of "enslaving/discriminating against an entire race of people" is subjective, it doesn't matter. Maybe in a victorious confederacy I would be brainwashed into thinking it was OK, but from where I'm sitting, treason to further such aims is objectively unacceptable.

Quote :

"ITT GrumpyGOP refuses to consider the fact that it was still an open question back then whether or not someone's true loyalties should lie with their state or with the union."

Yes, it was still a question, one that the confederacy answered incorrectly. There's a fair bit of history prior to the Civil War that should've gotten the message across, namely our rejection of the states-rights-happy Articles of Confederation and their replacement with a Constitution that recognized states' rights but gave a hell of a lot of authority to the country as a whole.

Aside from which, the states' rights argument is a bit hard to swallow anyway, given that they started seceding when and because Abe Lincoln got elected, not because he'd violated any of their rights -- he hadn't had the chance yet.

Quote :

"Skin color had nothing to do with it"

Well, obviously, which is why so many slaves were something other than blaOH WAIT, NO THEY WEREN'T.

If you were a free black you ran the risk of being kidnapped, called a runaway, and put back into slavery. If you were white, you did not run this risk. Don't try to fucking tell me skin color had nothing to do with it.

Also, Africans took part in a slave trade. What the hell does that have to do with the price of tea negroes?

Quote :

"At the time many of the southern states felt that they were unfairly reprensented in the government, much like our ancestors who rebelled against england."

We couldn't vote to make our choices heard in England. The South had that option, and rather than use it, they tried to take their ball and go home. It isn't as though slavery were under massive legislative attack already. Most of the compromises had come out pretty well for the slave states.

It's impossible to build a government or society around the idea that you can just quit any time you don't get what you want.

Quote :

"sad but true however might does not equal right."

Never said it did. I was talking about the inanity of "the south shall rise again."

11/30/2009 11:53:41 AM

Oh shit, I thought this wasn't about "OMG it's racist!"

montclair, since you want to talk about this, what the does that have to do with me? Are you saying I should feel guilty as a white person about things white people do or have ever done?

[Edited on November 30, 2009 at 12:07 PM. Reason : .]

11/30/2009 12:07:40 PM

Quote :

"Yes, it was still a question, one that the confederacy answered incorrectly"

Thanks for acknowledging this. When you make the simple statement, "confederates were treasonous" it definitely does not do justice to the very difficult and agonizing decisions that a lot of people made over where their loyalties should lie. It lumps those confederates into the same boat as your average Ft.Hood shooter which is completely unfair. The confederacy was wrong for a lot of reasons, but calling them simple traitors is a cheap shot. Even more so because the question was settled by force and not reason. In fact, the supreme court justices strongly discouraged the government from suing those southern states after the war, lest the question actually have to be decided on its intellectual merits.

That's all I was trying to say.

11/30/2009 12:24:19 PM

Oh, I'm well-aware that it was a question that many people -- including prominent CS commanders -- struggled with. I just wish they had come up with a better answer.

11/30/2009 1:09:21 PM

In 1861, Confederate Fish from the Watery South Rebelled Against their Air-Breathing Yankee Cousins.

11/30/2009 5:14:07 PM

when i whistle or sing dixie i literally mean the lyrics in the fact that i want the south to rise up again with full blown slavery and all. that's why we sing it isn't it?

11/30/2009 5:54:13 PM

Quote :

"when i whistle or sing dixie i literally mean the lyrics in the fact that i want the south to rise up again with full blown slavery and all. that's why we sing it isn't it?"

troll harder.

11/30/2009 5:57:58 PM

^It doesn't work as well when it's evident you either haven't read the majority of the thread or are simply ignoring it...people don't feed it as much when they know it's already been retorted

I'd say troll smarter in this instance, not harder

11/30/2009 6:18:37 PM

^ carpetbagger

11/30/2009 6:23:10 PM

Is that a landfishjesusliongoblinchristianshark? AWESOME

11/30/2009 11:58:40 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/12/02/google.search.obama/index.html

Quote :

"When a racist image of first lady Michelle Obama surfaced from the ugliest corners of the Internet last week to top Google's image search results, the episode shined a spotlight on the mysterious workings of search engines."

Ironically, without putting the code patch into the google "algorithm" all this political correctness drama over the pictures probably helped elevated the ranking of the "monkey Mrs. Obama" picture on googles judgement criteria. Thus by making this a big deal the protestors unintentionally gave the "disturbing" picture of Mrs. Obama even more justifiability to put the number one result.

I can't believe anyone really thinks the gov't or any social advocacy group pressuring a neutral internet search engine provider is a good thing. Let the snow ball start rolling...

12/2/2009 12:04:47 PM

You act like that's the first time it's happened.

12/2/2009 12:15:35 PM

Let's force Google to return search results that we agree with, damn it.

12/2/2009 12:20:18 PM

I don't see where google was pressured to suppress a search result.

I'm sure there are people who don't understand how search engines work that might blame google, but these people are inconsequential and google wouldn't listen to them anyway.

12/2/2009 12:58:47 PM

CSA Fish are also skilled in the ways of espionage. Here we find our water breathing cousin coyly masquerading as one of us in order to obtain information.



Damn Rebels.

12/2/2009 3:51:16 PM

Quote :

"I can't believe anyone really thinks the gov't or any social advocacy group pressuring a neutral internet search engine provider is a good thing. Let the snow ball start rolling..."

You fucking moron, Google did nothing but buy adspace explaining why the image popped up first, and said their views don't reflect the results. The site that hosted that picture deleted it and apologized.

12/2/2009 4:18:57 PM

I praise googles efforts to spread the truth

12/2/2009 4:20:55 PM

^ I weep at your efforts to use punctuation correctly, spoiling the victory of your most important contribution to date.

12/2/2009 4:43:26 PM

then, of course, there were the rebel squids...

12/2/2009 5:27:16 PM

Quote :

"By any reasonable definition, what the south did was treason."

Bullshit. They in no way tried to destroy the Union. They simply said "screw you guys, I'm going home."

12/2/2009 7:14:09 PM

I love how a bunch of you are on the same side of this issue as this guy:



and the KKK...AND the fact that you don't mind being associated with them. gg for not giving a fuck!

12/2/2009 7:53:03 PM

i snicker at this song b/c it brings back fond memories of all those slaves i owned and how i relied on them to get where i am.

12/2/2009 11:48:48 PM

i wanna rap about anything and everything

12/3/2009 12:16:55 AM