tough guys acting like people picked these shitty jobs

like when we were making ice cream sundaes of our careers some folks chose to top their scoop of vanilla with piss and shit

I don't have a shitty job and I don't intend to work one again but I will if I have to because a man does what has to be done no matter what

8/23/2010 12:14:00 PM

Quote :

"I'm not talking about bartenders there, slick I'm talking about waiters whose job it is to carry the food that I lovingly prepared (and sweat all over "

I wasn't talking about bartenders either. (analogy much? idiot)

Servers get paid 2+change per hour. They need their tips.
Line cooks and chefs get paid from 8 to 15 per hour. They don't deserve a penny more.
Line cooks and chefs don't have to smile or deal with customers. This is huge.
I was a line cook and pastry chef for 8 years, AND TIP SHARING WITH THE BACK OF THE HOUSE IS FUCKING STUPID.

Why would I say that? I would've benefited from it. Oh wait, I know why -- BECAUSE IT'S MOTHER FUCKING STUPID.

(stupid)

8/23/2010 12:16:08 PM

Where does jbrick83 work?

8/23/2010 12:16:24 PM

my new restaurant... i tip out 30%

BUT

i don't have to run my food AND i have 8 table sections....

8/23/2010 12:17:38 PM

^^ oh man I think this guy is mad

probably because he wasted 8 years of his life cooking pastries for people

8/23/2010 12:17:48 PM

^
Not mad, just assertive. Your idea is stupid and wrong.
Also, I don't even really know what a "pastry" is. I made gourmet desserts for 4 years for fine dining and catering.

8/23/2010 12:19:56 PM

RAWR RAWR CANADIANS RAWR

8/23/2010 12:21:33 PM

Quote :

"Basically, it requires no real education, not a lot of skills, and the most demanding parts of it are being on your feet all night and dealing with some douchebag customers. There are easier jobs out there (few of which pay as much as a decent bartending job, I'm guessing), but in any case, bartending is not demanding enough to rate a statement like "I'm sure your money is earned a lot harder than a server/bartender"."

I think it depends on the bartending job. Bartenders at a hotel bar or your local Applebees don't require much skill or intelligence. But bartenders at a nice restaurant or bar, or just any high volume bar need to have a lot of skill and an above average intelligence.

"Mental" skills that a good bartender needs to have:

- If you work at a nice restaurant or bar, you probably need to memorize the food menu or and wine list. Depending on where you're working at, those can be ridiculously extensive. Lots of restaurants have daily specials that have many ingredients you have to talk about to every customer. I worked at a wine bar that 30 wines by the glass (which really isn't that much compared to high-dollar restaurants). I had to know every single wine and at least basic knowledge to talk about every single one of them.

- You have to know how to make a lot of cocktails with several ingredients. Whether it's fruity shots and girly martinis, or classic dirty martinis and manhattans, I probably make 25+ different drinks a night (excluding your normal beers, liquors, and wines that are already on the drink menu). You have to know a lot of drink recipes if you work at a decent bar.

- Remembering drink orders and tabs. On a busy night, I usually take about 5 drink orders before I go back to the computer screen and put them on tabs. It could be as simple as 5 Miller Lites and vodka sodas. Or it could be 5 different drinks for each order. I have to remember each drink I made and what tab it is suppose to go on. Then there is stuff like remembering drinks for "regulars" or remembering how many limes that person wants on their vodka soda, or is that one person likes an orange on in their vodka water. I like to try and remember everyone's last name when I start them a tab. That way I don't have to scream "what's your last name!!!" every time I take a drink order. It's impossible to do that for everyone, but people tip better and are appreciative when they don't have to yell their last name 5 times every time they order a Bud Light.

- Math skills. It's easy when someone orders one beer and all you have to say is, "That'll be $3." But that doesn't happen all the time. Usually it's, "I'll take 2 Budweisers, a gin and tonic, a house pinot grigio, and four Royal Flushes." You're not always going to be able to figure that out in your head, but it saves a lot of time if you don't have to run back to the screen and ring up the order to be able to tell them what the price is every time you get an order of more than one drink.

I could probably go into more details, but I think you get the gist of it. You can't be brain dead and work behind the bar. That's all I'm trying to get at. And the better bartenders are usually very intelligent.

8/23/2010 12:21:49 PM

Quote :

"I don't even really know what a "pastry" is."

sounds like you were good at your job

8/23/2010 12:22:16 PM

I was...
I just never liked the term "pastry chef".

[Edited on August 23, 2010 at 12:25 PM. Reason : ]

8/23/2010 12:24:43 PM

I used to be really good at stuff like that too...

8/23/2010 12:24:47 PM

Quote :

"Where does jbrick83 work?"

Nowhere near Raleigh.

8/23/2010 12:24:59 PM

Quote :

""Mental" skills that a good bartender needs to have:"

look, i'm on your side in terms of the whole tipping thing, but let's not try and dress bartending up as needing anything beyond a 4th grade education.

It's a busy job. It's physically taxing.
But it's not a difficult job. and that's why there are millions of bartenders/servers.

However, I am glad that there are jobs that pay a livable wage that are accessible to the uneducated masses. Without manufacturing being that for current generations, server type jobs are one of the few jobs preventing an even larger stratification between the rich/poor educated/uneducated...

8/23/2010 12:34:00 PM

I tip a lot more when I'm downtown or at a bar or restaurant where I know the staff (or where I know the staff will come into my bar, too). Otherwise, it's generally a dollar on a beer, a dollar or two on a cocktail, or 20% on the final tab before tax or discounts.

I usually tip one to three bucks at coffeehouses depending on what I get, but that's because I'm a barista too. I don't always tip more than change or a dollar at ice cream shops or other places where I know the employees are at least on minimum wage. I tip more if they're really nice or look like they want to die because of screaming children.

I work at a coffee shop where nothing is automated (no one-touch espresso b.s.) and I'm happy if I get tipped fifty cents or the rest of someone's change on an espresso beverage. If I'm just pulling a drip coffee or a bottle of water for you, I don't expect a tip. I'm still nice to you. If you ask for a really complicated latte drink and I put a little heart on in it for you, I'm trying extra hard to get you to tip me but I don't feel entitled to it.

But tip your baristas. People are super crabby before they have their coffee!

8/23/2010 12:34:44 PM

Quote :

"But it's not a difficult job. and that's why there are millions of bartenders/servers."

But not good ones. I'm not trying to glamorize it, but to say that you only need a 4th grade education to be a bartender is fucking retarded. And to be an actual good bartender, you need to be fairly intelligent. But unless you've actually bartended at a decent bar/restaurant, then I'm not going to get into a pissing contest, because you just don't have enough information to back-up your claims.

Quote :

"But tip your baristas. People are super crabby before they have their coffee!"

Definitely!! I always tip my baristas.

[Edited on August 23, 2010 at 12:37 PM. Reason : .]

8/23/2010 12:37:06 PM

Quote :

"Servers get paid 2+change per hour. They need their tips."

I'm going to put a stop to this bullshittery right now. I saw it on page 4 and I saw it from you, assclown.

You know damn well that servers are garaunteed minimum wage. It is true that the employer can pay a base pay below $7.25/hr (minimum wage as of last year), but if the tips the waiter receives does not match what he would have made had he been paid $7.50/hr, the employer has to make up the difference.

And yes. I think minimum wage is about what you assholes deserve.

And in case anyone wants to question me, here it is from the Department of Labor's website:
http://www.dol.gov/wb/faq26.htm

Quote :

"Question: Is it legal for waiters and waitresses to be paid below the minimum wage? Answer: According to the Fair Labor Standards Act, tipped employees are individuals engaged in occupations in which they customarily and regularly receive more than $30 a month in tips. The employer may consider tips as part of wages, but the employer must pay at least $2.13 an hour in direct wages. An employer may credit a portion of a tipped employee's tips against the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour effective July 24, 2009. An employer must pay at least $2.13 per hour. However, if an employee's tips combined with the employer's wage of $2.13 per hour do not equal the hourly minimum wage, the employer is required to make up the difference. The employer who elects to use the tip credit provision must inform the employee in advance and must be able to show that the employee receives at least the applicable minimum wage (see above) when direct wages and the tip credit allowance are combined. If an employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 an hour do not equal the minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference. Also, employees must retain all of their tips, except to the extent that they participate in a valid tip pooling or sharing arrangement."

While I'm not doubting that the waiters and bartenders in this thread are aware of this, I have seen it thrown around as a way of getting pity and justification for your tips.

8/23/2010 12:41:59 PM

I'm trying to troll this indy fellow here but he's too good of a sport

ah well

8/23/2010 12:43:13 PM

^^ yeah that's true

which is why I have a problem with waiters making $300 a night when the back of the house makes $60

8/23/2010 12:44:52 PM

^^
OH YEAH!???

Quote :

"I'm going to put a stop to this bullshittery right now. I saw it on page 4 and I saw it from you, assclown. You know damn well that servers are garaunteed minimum wage. ... While I'm not doubting that the waiters and bartenders in this thread are aware of this, I have seen it thrown around as a way of getting pity and justification for your tips."

Dude. Are you that dumb?
(Go fuck yourself)
Your post has zero relevance to anything.
No one has claimed that servers take home less than minimum wage.
The point is, because they get less than minimum wage (up front), they rely on tips.
Then you chime in and say the same thing.

Quote :

"I have seen it thrown around as a way of getting pity and justification for your tips."

Because it is justification for getting tips, just as the evidence you cited shows. What are you arguing against?..., because no one has said otherwise.

Quote :

"I think minimum wage is about what you assholes deserve."

Oh wait, never mind. (You're just trolling)

[Edited on August 23, 2010 at 12:53 PM. Reason : ]

8/23/2010 12:45:22 PM

Quote :

"$3 on $20 is not a good tip."

but it aint a bad one, either.

8/23/2010 12:52:29 PM

Quote :

"But tip your baristas. People are super crabby before they have their coffee!"

No.
You all get paid an hourly wage; you knew what you were signing up for when you accepted the job; this furthers and encourages the spread of unwarranted tip requests/hints (e.g., tipping for "to-go" orders, coffeehouses, and the rest usual slew of examples).

It's not my job, as a customer, to compensate you for other people having been assholes. Besides, would you really rather have an extra $0.25-1, or a pleasant (or brief and painless) interaction with the customer?

I say this while I'm doing seasonal work as a waitress at a tourist trap in a resort town - i.e., I'm not some anti-tipping cheapskate geezer.

8/23/2010 12:52:37 PM

^ eh, she's being reasonable. She's getting paid a wage, and only expects a minimal, spare-change tip, and then only on something that requires a little effort to make...and she's not getting bent out of shape if she doesn't get thrown a bone (so to speak).

Quote :

"And to be an actual good bartender, you need to be fairly intelligent."

Compared to a ditch-digger.

I mean, if you are really a good bartender, then yes, that is marginally skilled labor, but "fairly intelligent" might be pushing it for all but the very top end. I mean, the very bottom end of "fairly intelligent" in my book would be something like a machinist, or a policeman, or a lower-tier nurse, etc. I think that only the best bartenders need even that kind of intelligence.

Quote :

"I think minimum wage is about what you assholes deserve."

If you get minimum wage for starting out at McDonalds or for holding the STOP/GO sign at a construction site, then even an Applebee's waiter/waitress/bartender rates to gross more than minimum wage.

[Edited on August 23, 2010 at 1:23 PM. Reason : ]

8/23/2010 1:22:27 PM

Left the Dominican waitress at IHOP a 50% tip a few weeks ago

Felt like a king

8/23/2010 1:24:35 PM

I got a 900% tip once.

8/23/2010 1:26:09 PM

LOL @ bartending being harder in any way than your typical office job. Yeah, you walk around the bar, and yeah, you bend over more than an average person does in a given night, but let's be honest.

- People have to multitask at their jobs, we have to know AT LEAST as much specialized information in their field as you do in yours to get our job done effectively. Whether it be product knowledge, tertiary skill requirements, or simple work flow/SOP procedures (redundant, I know).

- we have multiple projects to work on at once, and we have to prove that we've made progress on these projects over time. We aren't finished when we go home every night, done serving drinks to all the people who wanted them. We have to sustain this effort over months, and even years.

Those two points cover all your bulleted points from earlier, which all basically say "We need to be able to memorize and regurgitate stuff... and do simple math." Don't talk like there's not stress in a typical work environment, just because they're different. You need nothing more to be a bartender than initiative and enough hours to memorize a couple menus.


Again, shut up.


I'm AstralAdvent and I approved this message.

8/23/2010 1:29:22 PM

Quote :

"and she's not getting bent out of shape if she doesn't get thrown a bone (so to speak)."

And that's the only reason I'd tip her if I went to her shop. She recognizes that she's not entitled to it - but she's a minority in that respect.

8/23/2010 1:29:48 PM

Quote :

"I mean, if you are really a good bartender, then yes, that is marginally skilled labor, but "fairly intelligent" might be pushing it for all but the very top end. I mean, the very bottom end of "fairly intelligent" in my book would be something like a machinist, or a policeman, or a lower-tier nurse, etc. I think that only the best bartenders need even that kind of intelligence."

Although I might be exaggerating a bit, I think you are definitely underestimating the level intelligence required to be at least a decent bartender. But then again, if you've never worked behind the bar, I wouldn't expect you to give an accurate judgment.

To give you an analogy, I would say that an elementary education is all that you would need to do something like join the army...but that's just off my interaction with military people over the years. I know that there are some very intelligent people that serve in the armed forces, but I think your normal army grunt is borderline mentally handicapped. But if you were to tell me different, I would believe you since you have actual exposure to that position.

8/23/2010 1:33:56 PM

Quote :

"Your post has zero relevance to anything."

Quote :

"The point is, because they get less than minimum wage (up front), they rely on tips."

Quote :

"Because it is justification for getting tips, just as the evidence you cited shows. What are you arguing against?..., because no one has said otherwise."

That's just it, you fucking moron. They don't need tips. They will get $7.25/hr, regardless of whether the employer pays it or the customer. Are you that fucking dense to realize that? Notice how you made no mention of them being guaranteed 7.25/hr. Why is that? Because it would make for a harder argument that they need their tips.

The only reason why the waiter staff and the restaurant establishments push tipping on their customers is that it allows the restaurant to transfer the responsibility of paying their waiter from them to the customer, which equates to the restaurant owner making more money and a unjustified sense of entitlement by the waiter. But I'll bet you're too big of a tool to realize this.

Many of these waiters end up making $10-12/hr, which for what they do, I think they are overpaid. And they're the first to get pissed off if you leave them a shitty tip because you think they did a shit job. Which, since you leave the tip after the meal, and they don't pick it up until after you leave, how are they to even know why you left them a shitty tip when they may think that they did a good job? The entire system is flawed.

You don't need tips to motivate workers, you need the threat of having your ass canned to motivate you to do a good job.

8/23/2010 1:36:30 PM

If you think that anyone can tend bar then i can tell you a couple of things.

1. you've never tended bar at any place that has decent business

2. you're not really familiar with management decisions necessary to run such a business.


in the years i owned my bar/grill i kept the bartender i hated most because a good bartender can raise your revenues considerably just by being there.

Its not an easy job and its definitely a dying thing with the nature of the internet and how most people can't talk to one another without a keyboard in between.

8/23/2010 1:38:56 PM

Quote :

"Many of these waiters end up making $10-12/hr, which for what they do, I think they are overpaid."

The reason why servers/bartenders make a decent amount of money is because they pretty much work a demeaning job and have to deal with assholes (like yourself it seems, at least after reading your posts) to perform their job. They are waiting on someone hand and foot. They are doing the job of a maid, butler, servant (or what a slave would do back in the day). IMO, someone that has to serve another person should get paid more than minimum wage. If they do it at a place that requires greater skill and knowledge, then that pay should go up as well (and usually does).

I don't see anything wrong with the system and think it makes perfect sense. If you work at a shitty restaurant and don't do a good job, then you won't make a lot of money. The better the place you work at and the better you get at your job, then more money you make, and so on. There will always be shitty tippers and there will always be people who tip above and beyond to make up for the shitty tippers and then some.

So, blah blah blah blah. Teacher's don't get paid enough, professional athletes get paid too much, and people in the service industry pretty much make what they should be making.

^BINGO.

I use to think it wasn't that difficult to be a really good bartender. And after years of working behind a bar and constantly going out to bars and restaurants...I know it isn't the case. A very good bartender is hard to find...and extremely important to the success of a restaurant as well.

[Edited on August 23, 2010 at 1:46 PM. Reason : .]

8/23/2010 1:44:29 PM

Quote :

"Many of these waiters end up making $10-12/hr, which for what they do, I think they are overpaid. And they're the first to get pissed off if you leave them a shitty tip because you think they did a shit job. Which, since you leave the tip after the meal, and they don't pick it up until after you leave, how are they to even know why you left them a shitty tip when they may think that they did a good job? The entire system is flawed. You don't need tips to motivate workers, you need the threat of having your ass canned to motivate you to do a good job."

Tell you this: 10-12 an hour ain't shit. Sure, the system is flawed, not perfect, but it is what it is right now and not likely to change overnight.

You pay shit, you get shit service. And I usually get good service...and give tips accordingly. Everybody's just trying to make ends meet, and I've never known waitstaff that was rolling in the money. Why shouldn't I share my good fortune and show my appreciation for good service? I RARELY get the whole "entitlement" attitude from the folks who wait on me. Quit being such a little sour bitch.

8/23/2010 1:46:10 PM

lol, merbig has it all figured out, you guys...

8/23/2010 1:47:33 PM

Quote :

"LOL @ bartending being harder in any way than your typical office job. Yeah, you walk around the bar, and yeah, you bend over more than an average person does in a given night, but let's be honest. - People have to multitask at their jobs, we have to know AT LEAST as much specialized information in their field as you do in yours to get our job done effectively. Whether it be product knowledge, tertiary skill requirements, or simple work flow/SOP procedures (redundant, I know). - we have multiple projects to work on at once, and we have to prove that we've made progress on these projects over time. We aren't finished when we go home every night, done serving drinks to all the people who wanted them. We have to sustain this effort over months, and even years. Those two points cover all your bulleted points from earlier, which all basically say "We need to be able to memorize and regurgitate stuff... and do simple math." Don't talk like there's not stress in a typical work environment, just because they're different. You need nothing more to be a bartender than initiative and enough hours to memorize a couple menus. Again, shut up. I'm AstralAdvent and I approved this message."

Office workers are typically unproductive trash who feel entitled to their inflated salaries and do next to nothing

8/23/2010 1:57:09 PM

LOL, jealousy ITT


I'm AstralAdvent and I approved this message.

8/23/2010 1:57:49 PM

Jealous of what, exactly?

I do exactly what I want from sun up to sun down and enjoy a good life because of it. Why should I give a fuck what you do? Just expressing my mild disgust of those who hitch themselves to our system and freeride. I just recognize office workers are a step above welfare recipients

[Edited on August 23, 2010 at 2:00 PM. Reason : .]

8/23/2010 2:00:04 PM

Go ahead, post from your office to respond.

Swine.

8/23/2010 2:03:20 PM

Quote :

"Those two points cover all your bulleted points from earlier, which all basically say "We need to be able to memorize and regurgitate stuff... and do simple math." Don't talk like there's not stress in a typical work environment, just because they're different. You need nothing more to be a bartender than initiative and enough hours to memorize a couple menus. "

I agree with you to a certain extent. However, bartenders have to do all that shit on the spot. If a bartender can't remember how to make a drink, then they look like an idiot that can't do their job. If you can't remember exactly how to do something at your job, then you can take a few minutes, look it up and/or ask a peer or advisor and you can get the job done.

And being able to interact with people is a huge part of the job that I feel like 90% of people with office jobs couldn't do. You don't just have to carry a conversation. You have to be able to talk with a guy about why his marriage is failing, with a realtor about why the housing market sucks, with a teacher about whats wrong with kids these days, with a doctor about how malpractice insurance is taking half his income, with the local drunk on why his kids won't talk to him anymore, etc. I have more unwanted conversations in a weekend than most people have in their lives.

[Edited on August 23, 2010 at 2:09 PM. Reason : .]

8/23/2010 2:07:28 PM

^^^Depends on the office worker and the job.

[Edited on August 23, 2010 at 2:09 PM. Reason : ]

8/23/2010 2:07:46 PM

i bet this ass hat jbrick doesnt pay taxes on his tips.

you know, i know an auditor

what was your name again ?

8/23/2010 2:12:53 PM

I claim everything. Wouldn't have been able to buy my first house if I didn't!

8/23/2010 2:15:07 PM

sure

what was your name again ?

i'm sure some of these fine people of tww wouldnt mind pm'ing your name.

8/23/2010 2:18:21 PM

jbrick83, why do you still tend bar? I thought you'd be a hotshot around the courthouse down there by now

8/23/2010 2:29:49 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzYhdD_3CYk

8/23/2010 2:33:14 PM

I'm working on it (obviously not that hard, doing more posting than working in the office today)...but economy is still tough and bartending easily pays the bills. Now those bills have increased with my recent house purchase, so I'm not giving up a good bartending gig anytime soon.

And I like to keep my foot in the industry door...because I believe ownership is a good possibility at some point down the road for me.

8/23/2010 2:34:34 PM

Quote :

"I think you're confusing me with your distorted view of the average server or bartender (or maybe just the original poster....I would personally NEVER bitch over a $3 tip on a $20 tab...you're definitely not a baller with that kind of tip, but you're not cheap either)."

hey now.

i'll post this one last time for this latest round of thread activity

3 on 20 is absolutely fine if you come to the bar and order three shots or food or something that comes up to about 20 bucks. no problem whatsoever and i'm thankful for it (i just made 3 bucks in less than a minute)

but if you sit at a table and i leave the bar to wait on you for 4 hours while you drink 10 1.50 beers and some 50-cent wings, no, $3 is not an appropriate tip. use your brains people

[Edited on August 23, 2010 at 2:42 PM. Reason : asfe]

8/23/2010 2:42:18 PM

ITT - McDanger exposes his lack of understanding on how the real world works.

8/23/2010 2:47:50 PM

ITT - McDanger exposes his lack of understanding on how the real world works.

8/23/2010 2:47:50 PM

Quote :

"but if you sit at a table and i leave the bar to wait on you for 4 hours while you drink 10 1.50 beers and some 50-cent wings, no, $3 is not an appropriate tip. use your brains people"

Didn't re-read your post when this topic came back up.

And while not appropriate...I still wouldn't whine about it (not saying that you are "whining"...everyone else is just complaining about the "whining" ITT). I would make a mental note in my head that this person is a below average tipper, then I would remember that a good patron will make up for it shortly.

8/23/2010 2:59:21 PM

Good Patron makes up for almost anything

8/23/2010 3:01:12 PM

good Patron makes me wake up next to almost anything

8/23/2010 3:02:51 PM