Quote :

" silly pipe dream ideas, ideologue rather than pragmatist"

except that none of his ideas are that crazy, and the majority of americans support them which is very different from paul but pretty similar to mccain before he 100% sold out

1/17/2016 1:25:27 PM

Bernie does a good job pulling this country back.

1/17/2016 2:19:49 PM

theres only two candidates to talk about

1/17/2016 2:35:43 PM

Quote :

"How come this thread is 25% the length of the Republican Primary Thread? didn't realize TSB was 3/4 on the right"

The republicans are more fun to talk about because of how ridiculous they all are.

1/17/2016 5:37:44 PM

Quote :

"except that none of his ideas are that crazy, and the majority of americans support them which is very different from paul but pretty similar to mccain before he 100% sold out"

Each year more old people die and more millennials turn 18/become politically active, the majority becomes more pronounced. Bernie represents ideas of the future. In 30 years they will be the norm, but the earlier we start, the better.

1/17/2016 7:06:11 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/01/17/hours-before-debate-sanders-shares-details-of-health-plan-that-would-raise-income-taxes/

Sanders unveils his health plan... its a bold move.

I'd have thought he would have pushed for a public option first, rather than going single-payer wholesale.

1/17/2016 7:33:27 PM

Quote :

"except that none of his ideas are that crazy, and the majority of americans support them which is very different from paul but pretty similar to mccain before he 100% sold out"

I don't think the majority of Americans support the preponderance of his ideas. Not once they know the full details.

Also, McCain circa 2000 was a moderate. Sanders is not and has never been anything close to a moderate.

The analogy works much more closely for Sanders/Ron Paul, other than Paul never got the traction within the GOP that Sanders has within the Democratic Party--but a lot of that is because Sanders has very little competition, whereas Paul competed within a crowded field.

Also, Sanders and Paul have a history of 3rd party/independent candidacy.

1/17/2016 9:12:51 PM

except that they do, his ideas aren't crazy and polling supports it

1/17/2016 9:17:13 PM

Quote :

"to sail through the automation revolution, which we're already in the midst of, but will ramp up over the next 8+ years."

Now THIS--not specifically how Sanders' platform relates to it, but in general--is something that would probably make for a good thread. If you want to talk about that, I'd like to see it gets its own thread, because it's WAY too much for a sidebar in this one.

This is something that I think warrants a whole lot more discourse and consideration. I've searched for it a little bit in the past, and seen surprisingly little about it. I mean, there's discussion of ability to automate low-end jobs, but less about the 2nd and further order impacts of that as it becomes more and more cost-effective.

...and that doesn't even get into what happens as we automate what we view today as higher-end, professional jobs. I read something a little while back that said AI is essentially able to match the capability of a person with an IQ of 100 as of right now. That is, an average person.

Now, while people are, on average, fucking stupid, that's still a stunning fact. I saw a thing on TED from a couple of years ago that, as best as I remember (and I'm pretty fuzzy on the memory now), the world's collective computing power is roughly equivalent to that of 1 human brain (I don't recall the metrics; obviously in many regards, 1 HB would be in no way comparable to one computer, let alone all the computers). With Moore's Law holding, that capability will continue to grow exponentially, which will soon enable AI and automation that we would never have previously dreamed of.

[Edited on January 17, 2016 at 9:29 PM. Reason : ^ goddamn, they support Trump, too. ]

1/17/2016 9:28:38 PM

^ qntmfred has a thread around here somewhere, this topics strangely doesn't seem to get much traction among normal people. In the past year, there's been a big up-tick in news articles about automation/AI recently though, and Obama finally referenced it in his SOTU (Rubio got a question about it that he dodged during 1 of the debates).

I think people think it's far off and not a problem, not realizing we've been in this transition for a few years now.

1/18/2016 10:16:59 AM

Well no shit. Outsourcing is pretty much the same thing effect wise. I think most of the people in the Bernie camp realize that. Why would it take automation for you to realize these things are important?

1/18/2016 11:03:49 AM

^^ yeah, I mean, at one level or another, automaton has been going on for a century or more. In the last few decades, though, it has been gradual enough that it hasn't been a big deal. I think that in the foreseeable future, we are likely to hit a tipping point where it accelerates to the point of being disruptive.

1/18/2016 7:47:07 PM

I saw a thread a while back on basic income for all.. Or something like that. In it there was some talk about the ai taking most jobs.

1/18/2016 10:12:03 PM

Badass article from 2005 about Bernie Sanders:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/inside-the-horror-show-that-is-congress-20050825

Most of it is about the disgusting sausage-making that happens in Congress and how corporate lobbying permeates everything. I doubt that will be a surprise to anyone, but what is good is the reporting on how Bernie (with help from friends too) would attempt to wiggle in very pointed amendments to neuter some of the dumb/horrible legislation that was the hallmark of the GWB administration and Tom Delay.

For those that think Bernie only submits pie in the sky legislation:

Quote :

"Sanders is the amendment king of the current House of Representative. Since the Republicans took over Congress in 1995, no other lawmaker – not Tom DeLay, not Nancy Pelosi – has passed more roll-call amendments (amendments that actually went to a vote on the floor) than Bernie Sanders. He accomplishes this on the one hand by being relentlessly active, and on the other by using his status as an Independent to form left-right coalitions. "

He was pretty damn effective, until he got to the Senate, which is an even bigger clusterfuck than the house, but still.

1/19/2016 11:58:22 AM

The tide is turning in the mainstream media...to be exactly where social and online media have been for months:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/18/politics/bernie-sanders-media/index.html

1/19/2016 6:24:06 PM

Quote :

"New Hampshire 2016 Democratic Primary CNN/WMUR Sanders 60, Clinton 33, O'Malley 1 Sanders +27"

free at last

1/19/2016 9:01:34 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/20/politics/clinton-sanders-establishment-endorsements/

As far as liberal groups go, I feel like Planned Parenthood is part of the Washington establishment.

1/21/2016 8:52:22 PM

agreed

1/21/2016 8:54:14 PM

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/state-department-declares-22-emails-hillary-clintons-account-36603244

1/29/2016 2:53:45 PM

is there supposed to be more to the story than the 1 sentence? Did they declare them top secret after the fact or are they saying they were top secret when she had them on her server?

1/29/2016 4:03:44 PM

Guess it's going to be Sanders for the Democrats. Should be an easy win for Republicans, even if Trump is the nominee.

1/29/2016 4:25:19 PM

I guess it will still be Hilary. And a tough win for Republicans.

1/29/2016 4:33:03 PM

Sanders has far more supporters than any republicans. Republicans are a major minority and can't really win any election without gerrymandering.

Each year more republicans die and more young people turn 18. The only hope for the party is to become conservative and follow someone like rand paul.

1/30/2016 8:46:47 AM

It will be tough for Republicans no matter who their candidate OR who the democrat is. But I do think more republicans show up to vote if Hillary is is on the ticket.

1/30/2016 6:49:20 PM

That's very likely to happen I think. Hilary seems UNSTOPPABLE so far.

1/31/2016 3:43:11 PM

Until Bernie stops her.

1/31/2016 4:53:03 PM

I hope so but I doubt that.

1/31/2016 5:26:05 PM

It's the Democrat that all other Democrats hate vs. the Guy who is not even a Democrat!

And Martin O'Malley.

2/1/2016 5:33:37 PM

Blizzard in Iowa on Tuesday. Classes canceled. Does this mean more students show up to vote for Bernie?

2/1/2016 5:38:35 PM

I hope Omalley endorses Sanders.

2/1/2016 10:00:55 PM

Clinton 50.1 percent, Sanders 49.3 percent with 85 percent in. http://fivethirtyeight.com/live-blog/iowa-caucus-presidential-election-2016/?lpup=10300826

2/1/2016 10:49:30 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/elections/2016/primaries/iowa?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Bernie within .2% with 90% in

2/1/2016 10:53:57 PM

I think Bernie could beat Cruz but I think Rubio would beat Bernie.

2/1/2016 10:54:56 PM

Chelsea and Bill will speak before Hillary tonight.

2/1/2016 11:01:54 PM

That one precinct that chose Omalley is fucking us over.

2/1/2016 11:09:35 PM

^^^ I want to see Bernie Sanders beat Cruz in an election with record-low turnout.

2/1/2016 11:38:34 PM

^ If that election happens, I'll write-in Vladimir Putin. He'd be better than either of them.

D.C. Democrat from the U.S. Election Atlas forum sums up the Democrats' night:

Quote :

"A 74 year old joke candidate and non Democrat who never even expected himself to have a chance has just pulled 49% against a candidate literally the entire party (even Liz Warren) except for Martin O'Malley made way for. Gotta think about what that says about his message."

Oh look! Joe Biden!

2/1/2016 11:42:29 PM

theres no bright side of forcing hillary to shift to the left because you know shes gonna move right back to the right in the general election.

2/1/2016 11:44:38 PM

^ it's the Clinton Way

2/1/2016 11:45:58 PM

Why are the rest of the votes not in? Its been 4 hours. A popular vote is just too simple in the US. Every election is rigged in some whether it be gerrymandering, vote suppression or down right shenanigans.

[Edited on February 2, 2016 at 12:03 AM. Reason : woops]

2/2/2016 12:03:00 AM

Quote :

"That one precinct that chose Omalley is fucking us over."

I don't think the number of dlegates would change. Thankfully this is a split-delegate process, so even if Bernie finishes 2% down I think he still ties in delegates. Right now he's down 0.2% so it should end in a tie no matter what at this point.

EDIT: CNN is showing 24 Clinton delegates, 21 Sanders. I'm not sure how Iowa divides things up but if Bernie crushes it in New Hampshire, he'll come out significantly ahead.

2nd EDIT: Linn County just added another delegate for Sanders. 24-22.

[Edited on February 2, 2016 at 12:30 AM. Reason : -]

2/2/2016 12:25:28 AM

^Iowa only has 44 delegates up for grabs in this caucus. There are 8 super delegates though, so perhaps the 24-22 count includes those?

2/2/2016 1:04:57 AM

http://www.nytimes.com/elections/2016/primaries/iowa?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Showing 21-21 delegates each

2/2/2016 1:18:11 AM

^I like that chart. Blue, green, red, orange, and purple makes it much easier to read instead of 30 shades of just blue and red.

Is O'Malley dropping out? I don't understand why you would suspend the campaign a week before New Hampshire if you aren't calling it quits. It's like a relationship "going on break" ...it just means breaking up slowly.

[Edited on February 2, 2016 at 1:31 AM. Reason : -]

2/2/2016 1:22:57 AM

Of course he is dropping out.

It's been a two horse race since November or more.

Dead Heat with 99% reporting. Says the Democrats may have a player for the throne.

2/2/2016 1:53:10 AM

Its interesting that on the GOP side, there's a pretty clear trend with populous cities and support for Rubio, but there's no trend with population and candidate for the DNC.

I wonder what the defining characteristics of the Sanders supporters are...?

edit: looks like NYT has this info... seems like educated, higher-earning, city-dwelling Obama supporters are Bernie's demo.

[Edited on February 2, 2016 at 1:57 AM. Reason : ]

2/2/2016 1:56:19 AM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/2016-election-results/iowa/?tid=sm_fb

so which is it?

It's pretty sad how few people actually voted and how big of an impact these select few voters can have on a national election. Such a stupid process.

2/2/2016 1:56:36 AM

uhmmm, it's not really a "vote" as much as Iowa is a straw poll

2/2/2016 2:11:06 AM

^^^Also, youth. I think they said over 80% of the under-30 vote went to Bernie and 70-something% of over-60 vote went to Hillary.

The trend seems to follow closely to how Hillary was so far ahead of Obama and the timeline of his catching up:


(Couldn't find a good pic of second graph with the key, but this is Clinton, Sanders, O'malley polling nationally up to Feb 1)

[Edited on February 2, 2016 at 2:15 AM. Reason : -]

2/2/2016 2:15:06 AM

It's crazy that there is still a vote taken by raising hands. I kind of love it but there's no way that can be pleasant experience to sit through. I do not envy the precinct captains.

http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4578589/bad-call-improper-vote-call

2/2/2016 5:06:58 AM