Quote :

"INVESTIGATE THE INVESTIGATION"

Quote :

"BOYCOTT DA SCHOOOOOOOO"

11/14/2014 2:12:30 PM

If this happened at State, they would close the school.

11/14/2014 2:14:41 PM

http://abc11.com/sports/key-player-in-unc-scandal-leaving-chapel-hill/395322/

Quote :

"Leslie Strohm, UNC's vice chancellor and general counsel, has been named vice president for strategy and general counsel at the University of Louisville, the university announced Friday. Strohm was one of the key players behind a public records battle with the media as reporters attempted to look into a scandal involving student athletes and allegations of academic misconduct. UNC, with Strohm's legal advice, used the Family Education Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) to deny numerous public records requests at the height of the scandal."

Quote :

"Strohm has remained a key legal figure, advising UNC during a second investigation by Kenneth Wainstein. "I am grateful that while contemplating this new opportunity at Louisville, Leslie decided to stay with us through the end of the independent investigation led by Kenneth Wainstein," Chancellor Carol Folt said in a campus email message."

[Edited on November 14, 2014 at 2:35 PM. Reason : _]

11/14/2014 2:31:57 PM

How is Boxill stay employed at UNC? That's nuts.

I'd think just from a PR standpoint, UNC would wanna terminate any faculty even remotely involved.

[Edited on November 14, 2014 at 2:34 PM. Reason : d]

11/14/2014 2:33:40 PM

Boxill isn't just still employed by UNC, she still has her seat at the Chancellors table.

11/14/2014 2:38:12 PM

Quote :

"Martin Luther King Jr. would be proud you dumb twat."

he is a known academic plagiarist.

11/14/2014 2:47:40 PM

My other question is why would any other self respecting college take employees, like Strohm, jumping ship before it goes down?

I can kind of understand Strohm, because she wasn't directly involved in this, she only was the key player at finding loopholes to shut out as much information as possible to the public. Then you have the other employee who was directly involved and now because she is at another University they are going to do their own investigation into the allegations against her, lol.




[Edited on November 14, 2014 at 3:03 PM. Reason : _]

11/14/2014 3:01:06 PM

Assuming she wasn't involved, it makes sense. She did her job as best as she could, despite her views towards it, and jumped ship as soon as she could.

11/14/2014 6:49:32 PM

is this new? http://abc11.com/education/unc-seeks-to-move-willingham-case-to-federal-court/398568/

11/17/2014 1:17:41 PM

unrelated but:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_COLLEGE_ADMISSION_BIAS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-11-17-18-58-36

UNC sued, lol

11/17/2014 8:18:09 PM

Isn't harvard private? So who they admit shouldn't matter.

11/17/2014 8:47:26 PM

private, but they take a lot of federal money (like any university).

11/17/2014 8:49:43 PM

Alright, so there is now no question that UNC has the letter from SACS on their accreditation. I definitely do not think they pulled it from any college inside the university, but they had to have some type of punishment for that type of blatant cheating for almost 2 decades (that has been proven so far).

Also if UNC had an all clear letter, they would have leaked it through back channels to the web.

11/17/2014 9:04:06 PM

Where are you getting that they have a letter from SACS?

11/17/2014 9:56:37 PM

It was reported widely and SACS confirmed a few days ago that they were sending a letter.

However, the letter isn't gonna say either "you are losing accreditation" or "you're fine"

It's gonna say "we've found A, B and C wrong. Please show us your plan to fix it, and then we'll follow up with you"

Quote :

"Thursday, November 13, 2014 03:52PM CHAPEL HILL, N.C. (WTVD) -- The Southern Association of Colleges and Schools has sent UNC-Chapel Hill a warning letter about its accreditation status in the wake of the Wainstein Report. SACS President Dr. Belle Wheelan confirmed Thursday that the letter is in the mail, and should be received in a matter of days. "

[Edited on November 17, 2014 at 10:15 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on November 17, 2014 at 10:15 PM. Reason : they make it sound like they just drop it in the mail with a stamp, as if it isn't certified]

11/17/2014 10:12:45 PM

Yeah accreditation isn't something they just yank over night. A school is given notice that they have to correct certain things within a time frame.

On a related side note, how fucking embarrassing is it for UNC to receive such a letter? We're talking about one of the oldest public schools in the nation with a rich heritage. That's like Bill Gates getting sent to collections and having his water and power turned off. Fucking basic.

[Edited on November 17, 2014 at 10:23 PM. Reason : .]

11/17/2014 10:15:03 PM

Carolina Way dogg

11/17/2014 10:29:58 PM

If this really happens at all schools as UNC fans would have us believe, why hasn't NCSU gotten an accreditation notice yet?

[Edited on November 17, 2014 at 10:34 PM. Reason : ]

11/17/2014 10:34:22 PM

For those who don't know, it's actually pretty uncommon to have your accreditation taken away. Even threats mean something absolutely unconscionable has to have taken place. Typically the school has to be completely up the creak in terms of malfeasance. Often happens when admins have embezzled funds or that sorta thing. Oh I forgot, this is UNC we're talking about

11/17/2014 10:46:34 PM

Yea we are only talking about the biggest academic scandal in the history of college sports..

11/17/2014 10:55:28 PM

Quote :

"Yea we are only talking about the biggest academic scandal in the history of college sports.."

FTFY

11/17/2014 11:21:11 PM

https://www.tryinteract.com/dthYAFI/which-member-of-unc-s-academic-scandal-are-you

11/18/2014 3:43:19 PM

<---- Nyang'oro

11/18/2014 3:47:42 PM

butch davis

"You've got a lot of hustle, gumption, scrap and other football-related virtues. One thing you haven't got is a job. Sorry 'bout the sack, coach."

[Edited on November 18, 2014 at 4:07 PM. Reason : message]

11/18/2014 4:07:20 PM

Jennifer Wiley Thompson

Drop it like its hot, girl – those charges, that is! You have a great heart even in your darkest moments. And, hey, you look fabulous in your mughot.

11/18/2014 4:54:19 PM

Mary Willingham

11/18/2014 4:56:59 PM

<--------Holden Thorp

Chemist, inventor, musician, professor, entrepreneur, kind-hearted email-writer, possible traitor… Is there anything you can't do?

[Edited on November 18, 2014 at 5:00 PM. Reason : sds]

11/18/2014 5:00:12 PM

11/18/2014 5:41:32 PM

Art is at it again! First, here is the story that was reposted from another site by Billy Reed:

http://chapelboro.com/lifestyle/opinion/unc-academics-scandal-painful-hit-college-sports-loyalists/

At the bottom in the comments, Art was the first one to chime in with this lovely contribution:

Quote :

"Billy, as someone who has read and admired your work for years, I am disappointed that you, too, have taken the broadest brush stroke with your assessment of the UNC scandal. If you read Wainstein thoroughly, you would know that those involved constitute a tiny subset of the UNC athletic department and that more "students" were involved than student-athletes. You would also know that it was a faculty and administrative failing even more than an athletic failing. McCants, at worst, is a liar who has been discredited by every teammate on the 2004-05 NCAA champions and, at best, a rogue recruit inherited by Roy Williams who turned out to be hopelessly uncontrollable. The screaming headlines in the 24-hour news cycle that we never knew growing up in the business make the story seem much more scandalous than it really is by a national media that reads a few paragraphs and generally gets it wrong. UNC is embarrassed as it should be and has put in more than 40 reforms to insure future compliance and that all complicit parties -- save those protected by tenure -- have been removed. This, too, shall pass and UNC will emerge stronger with a model crafted by the new administration that will again be followed by other schools."

11/19/2014 8:56:46 AM

^ Ha! Love that the comment attached to Art's is from Allison Savicz, PR Consultant. It's as if she's so proud of their "let's blind them with math!!!!!" PR strategy that she's putting on the internets every chance she gets. Thanks for the useless math Allison! Great PR work, good stuff:

Quote :

"For 18 years, 3,100 students (47 percent athletes) took advantage of bogus courses which allowed them to receive quality grades without having to show up for class, turn in papers or take tests. That averages out to 80 athletes per year, with a total average of 172 per year."

[Edited on November 19, 2014 at 9:27 AM. Reason : .]

11/19/2014 9:26:45 AM

Hahaha, LOL @ this comment in that same article. Art needs to get his head checked. Seriously. Biggest homer in the history of homers.

Quote :

"I'm worried about Art. This has to be like finding out that the color blue is actually red, or discovering that his tap water has actually been infected with mouse urine for 50 years. When it finally hits Art that all of his heroes are villians... when that happens... dear God let someone he trusts/loves be with him. "

11/19/2014 9:33:54 AM

The dumbest fucking argument in this entire thing is that "there were more students than student-athletes invovled". It was 53% students to 47% student-athletes. So, yes, that's correct. But that's also almost a perfect 50/50 split...and for the sake of argument you can pretty much accurately say that half the beneficiaries of these bogus classes were student-athletes.

Not to mention proportionally, student-athletes benefited more from these classes considering the fact that the normal student to student athlete ratio is far greater that 53/47.

11/19/2014 9:54:44 AM

Quote :

"A ROGUE RECRUIT"

11/19/2014 9:59:04 AM

Another post from Art from his facebook

Quote :

"I agree with Steve. The N&O's policy had long been to compare what goes on at one of the local schools to how it is done at the others. Yet to see one word about how Duke, State, etc., handle academics for their athletes. If they do it differently or better, that would be a chance to document it and, maybe, have less of this inane back-and-forth sniping. "

[Edited on November 19, 2014 at 10:02 AM. Reason : ]

11/19/2014 10:00:28 AM

Quote :

"The dumbest fucking argument in this entire thing is that "there were more students than student-athletes invovled". It was 53% students to 47% student-athletes. So, yes, that's correct. But that's also almost a perfect 50/50 split...and for the sake of argument you can pretty much accurately say that half the beneficiaries of these bogus classes were student-athletes."

the hilarity of it all is the question: how does it make it that much better to skew the perception of %'s? seems like that'd make the perception worse... it's pretty widely accepted that athletes tend to skip through college, but it's like they want you to think it's their regular students that did all of the cheating... these people will sacrifice anything for their beloved basketball program.



[Edited on November 19, 2014 at 10:36 AM. Reason : ]

11/19/2014 10:35:14 AM

In the earlier days of the scandal they were counting student-athletes as students that were actively on a sports team at the time of the class. So in UNCs terms back then, and I wold assume now:

Student Athlete: Current member of a UNC sports team
Non Student Athlete: Ex-player coming back to finish degree(and help APR), Team managers, girlfriend of players

They play with the loosest definitions they can that suit their needs, but hey what should we expect from the school that calls this:



15,500

Someone looked at that and said, 'F it... tell em 15,000. Wait! Scratch that, Vanderbilt just reported 15,147 at their Spring game, make it 15,500!'

[Edited on November 19, 2014 at 10:48 AM. Reason : dwq]

11/19/2014 10:46:30 AM

Quote :

" Team managers, girlfriend of players"

Yeah, they probably don't include them as student athletes BECAUSE THEY AREN'T STUDENT ATHLETES

11/19/2014 10:51:17 AM

^Yeah I mean they aren't student-athletes. It was also reported in the Wainstein investigation that these courses popular in the fraternities and sororities as well.

and

Quote :

"the hilarity of it all is the question: how does it make it that much better to skew the perception of %'s? seems like that'd make the perception worse... it's pretty widely accepted that athletes tend to skip through college, but it's like they want you to think it's their regular students that did all of the cheating... these people will sacrifice anything for their beloved basketball program. "

yeah, they're willing to throw their academics under the bus to save athletics which is the most backwards thing ever.

11/19/2014 10:59:02 AM

^^Yeah well no shit. And there is no reasonable way to identify the friends of athletes that attended these classes... Just pointing out that the footprint of athletes in these classes is a lot larger than the 47% they are touting.

Their narrative is that these classes are there for everyone. My take is that these classes were there for athletes and that their bubble is a lot larger than 47%

11/19/2014 11:19:27 AM

Quote :

"My take is that these classes were there for athletes and that their bubble is a lot larger than 47%"

Didnt the report indicate this? I thought these "classes" were created for athletes, and students were only added when the students found out about the easy classes (such as the larger number of frat students in the classes), and to provide "credibility" to the classes.

11/19/2014 11:31:18 AM

there was documented concern that fake lasses had made it into the "frat circuit"

11/19/2014 11:50:21 AM

^ yeah, in the report Crowder groans to a colleague that the frats found out about it and were enrolling

11/19/2014 11:52:49 AM

I take it UNC didn't have classes that required instructor approval to sign up for them, like was the case at NC State.

I know there were quite a few sections of classes when I was at State that you couldn't just register for online. I mean if Debbie didn't want frat boys in her fake classes, maybe she shouldn't have let them in.

11/19/2014 12:19:57 PM

^I'm sure that wouldn't have been too hard to do. Maybe they didn't wanna limit it to just student-athletes to not arouse suspicion.

11/19/2014 1:41:20 PM

There is an email where Crowder assures a coach that she added non-athletes in the class so it wouldn't arouse "suspicion". The screenshot of that email is on this thread in one of the earlier pages.



[Edited on November 19, 2014 at 1:49 PM. Reason : Screenshot]

11/19/2014 1:48:35 PM

Quote :

""I agree with Steve. The N&O's policy had long been to compare what goes on at one of the local schools to how it is done at the others. Yet to see one word about how Duke, State, etc., handle academics for their athletes. If they do it differently or better, that would be a chance to document it and, maybe, have less of this inane back-and-forth sniping."

fun fact. how nc state handles academics/athletics is in the wainstein report emails. the unc person even discusses how far ahead our program is.

11/19/2014 2:06:34 PM

^ show please. so i can gloat.

11/19/2014 2:26:18 PM

yeah is that real? i searched that document for every way to stylize ncsu and found nothing.

11/19/2014 3:23:46 PM

emails are mostly screenshot? You wouldn't be able to search text ?

11/19/2014 3:44:37 PM

Anything from a UNC employee saying we are far above them in our methods would be plastered all over StateFans Nation by now. However if it does exist, I definitely want it. If we can get a sentence or maybe just part of a sentence out of the email we could probably locate it.

BTW, my favorite quote in the linked article from Billy Reed is this:

Quote :

"Whenever I’d get into an argument about cheating, I’d always cite North Carolina as Exhibit A of a highly successful program that did things the right way. My list also included Duke, Stanford, Wisconsin, Notre Dame, Louisville, Indiana, Michigan State and a few others. But North Carolina was the rock. Whenever a radio caller would insist that everybody cheats, North Carolina was my go-to program for proof that he (or she) was wrong..... Academic fraud of the kind that existed at Carolina goes to the heart of an institution’s mission and integrity. It is just about the worst scandal of its kind in NCAA history. And the fact that it happened in Chapel Hill hurts more than just the university and its athletics programs. It hurts everyone in college athletics who is fighting against corruption at all levels. This was a massive blow to everyone who believes, however naively, in the concept of the level playing field."

My only problem with his statements is "It is just about", just about? Are you joking? Tell me one scandal that tops this and touching boys is not a valid comparison to 2 decades of cheating.


Oh wait, I have a problem with this too. It goes back to the same BS argument that everyone is doing it, if everyone is doing it, UNC was pretty fucking dumb about it or just thought nobody would ever have the balls to actually reveal what "The Carolina Way" really meant.

Quote :

"Every university has courses and majors that are conducive to keeping athletes eligible to play and make money for the university. But UNC took this distasteful reality to a new level."

I know our Athletes went to class, they were in my fucking classes, Chem 101, Calc 1, etc.

I think what he meant to say is every college has courses that are known to be easy, but giving out grades for 0 amount of work, that is a little different than being "easy". A dumbass is still going to be a dumbass even in an easy class. However you throw them a free grade and they obviously are going to pass...




ahhh, but then you have this little golden arrangement of sentences from CNN:

Quote :

""As academic watchdog Gerald Gurney told CNN, “I can safely say that the scope of the 20-year UNC fraud scandal easily takes the prize for the largest and most nefarious scandal in the history of NCAA enforcement. The depth and breadth of the scheme – involving counselors, coaches, academic and athletic administrators, faculty, etc. – eclipses any previous scandal.”"

http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/14443895/img/14443895.jpg




[Edited on November 19, 2014 at 4:03 PM. Reason : _]

11/19/2014 3:45:58 PM