Season 3 scheduling killed the ratings...splitting the show to a 7 episode and 15 episode season (along with the fact that the 7 episode part was probably the worst stretch in the entire series) killed all of the momentum the show had in regards to ratings.

But yeah, using Nielsen ratings as proof on the quality of a TV show? Thats beyond idiotic.

"The Shawshank Redemption is obviously a terrible movie, since it did horribly at the box office. I dont know why so many people tell me how much they loved that movie, since it was clearly a piece of shit film. No doubt these people have no clue on what makes a great movie...apparently theyve never seen Transformers 2."

5/28/2010 3:18:14 PM

Well, my point wasn't that the show had few viewers (the graph actually doesn't show that because "few" is a relative term), but that interest in the show faded rather quickly over time (peaking in the second season).

Now, you could say that any show that goes on long enough will lose viewers and that may be true. But I don't think thats fair to the ambitions Lost set for itself. It didn't want to be like other shows and it actually wasn't.

Other hit one-hour dramas over the past decade were largely character driven stories (Sopranos, House, etc). And its obvious these shows have a built in shelf life. It is just hard to keep developing characters for multiple years. Eventually there is no where else for the character to go and people stop watching.

By contrast, Lost was billed as much for its plot as its characters. You were presented with mysteries about the island and why these people were brought there. And there were hints that all of these mysteries were supposed to support some allegorical message that was up to you, the viewer, to figure out.

If Lost had hit its ambitions on the mark, I think it would have worked like people were reading a mystery novel. With interest (and viewership) rising as we approached resolution. Why didn't it work out that way? Well, I think that for all the hints that there were some deeper meaning to the show, there really wasn't one. Thats why interest died off. Everyone could see the mysteries were going no where pretty early in the series. Which meant the only thing left to keep you coming back each week was an affection for the characters. And honestly, most people realized you could find better character driven dramas on TV without the bs sidehow.

I just checked out RatSoup's response and its exactly what I'm talking about. If you really REALLY think this show was meant to be an ordinary character driven drama, or that its message was suppose to be "well whatever you get out of it is whatever you get out of it, man", then you were not paying attn.

JJ Abrams et al had much loftier ambitions for this show and they just wasn't able to carry it off. A very very sad conclusion to a promising piece of television. It was an experiment in pushing the boundaries of tv story-telling that ultimately blew apart the test tubes.

[Edited on May 28, 2010 at 4:01 PM. Reason : ``]

5/28/2010 3:35:54 PM

^ from what i've read, it was always intended to be a story about the characters. JJ Abrams suggested they had the mystery stuff to get viewers' attentions. JJ Abrams really didn't have a whole lot to do with the show over the full run though.

So if you believe the interviews, it was intended to about the characters (and not the mysteries) from the get go. I think the mysteries definitely got people hooked, including me.

Quote :

""well whatever you get out of it is whatever you get out of it, man""

i know you're being sarcastic, but it would be a lot easier to respect your argument if you weren't being so overly sarcastic with the ridiculous examples.


Rat Soup gave a perfectly fine example of what some took as the message of the show.

I think the ending supports what he said. These people all met up again before moving on in the after life. Even though they had lived many years without each other, after the incidents that brought them together, they still ended up together. Those events were obviously extremely important to them in some way.

[Edited on May 28, 2010 at 7:45 PM. Reason : extra ^]

5/28/2010 7:45:44 PM

It doesn't sound like we're disagreeing. We both agree that the mysteries became a sideshow by the end of the series. The only difference is that I say this is a sign of the shows failure to reach loftier ambitions and you say it was actually the plan along. Like a lot of things about the show, I guess we'll never know which is closer to the truth.

And just to clarify, Im not asking anybody to stop liking the show. Just relaying my opinion. You can get out of it, what you get out of it.

5/28/2010 11:27:35 PM

Quote :

"you sure aren't acting that way"

well when people like you continue to not only read this thread, but to actually post your complaints that aren't going to affect the way some of us view this show, what do you expect?

Quote :

"If you really REALLY think this show was meant to be an ordinary character driven drama, or that its message was suppose to be "well whatever you get out of it is whatever you get out of it, man", then you were not paying attn."

or you were paying attention because that's how it was intended to work out

Quote :

"The only difference is that I say this is a sign of the shows failure to reach loftier ambitions and you say it was actually the plan along."

the lofty ambition ultimately had nothing to do with the unresolved mysteries.

5/29/2010 7:27:07 PM

Why is it so hard for you to grasp that some people were simply looking for different things from the show? I agree that it's annoying that people are still bitching about the finale, but you're being just as annoying by so adamantly defending it. Just ignore the haters and they will eventually get tired of bitching and go away.

5/29/2010 9:12:46 PM

Quote :

"well when people like you continue to not only read this thread, but to actually post your complaints that aren't going to affect the way some of us view this show, what do you expect?"

Are you really that fucking dense that you don't comprehend that all your complaints can be said about you as well?

5/29/2010 11:13:36 PM

All of you "the show was about the characters" people are under the cloud

5/30/2010 10:00:42 AM

i think there were basically 2 groups, those who wanted more about the mystery stuff and those who were satisfied with it. Neither is more "right" than the other. But I think the mystery stuff has always been mostly a gimmick to hook people who wouldn't otherwise be interested. I would tell people who didn't watch it that at first they would mostly be interested by the "island" stuff but that was only like 10-15 minutes of each episode and most of it was a flashback about the character that was the focus of the episode. I told them that they wouldn't mind though because the flashback/character stuff was all really good.

So, I certainly get why those who were extremely interested in the mystery stuff were disappointed. But I honestly think they either missed that the island shit was pretty much a gimmick, or they're pissed that it was used as a gimmick to hook people but those people weren't essentially "respected" by resolving some things.

I'm going to be very frank and blunt; If you watched the first few seasons, where the episodes were almost entirely devoted to flashbacks about the characters (something a lot of people complained about from the get go)... and you think the show wasn't mainly "about the characters"... you're an idiot. All you have to do is look at those first few seasons and look at how much time is devoted to telling stories about the characters that don't involve the island. At best, it's 50/50. But I wouldn't be surprised if there was more time devoted to off-island stuff and the on-island relationships than there was to any "island" stuff. I'm not saying it wasn't a cheap tactic. but I do think it was just that, a tactic that was used to hook a lot of people (according to the interviews, that was Abrams idea and big contribution to the show). And i also think they (the main writers/producers behind the show) wanted the show to run so they could tell the story they wanted. And I KNOW that ABC isn't running a show that doesn't bring in money. Higher ratings = more money. So, it doesn't surprise that they kept on with the stuff that a lot of people really hung onto. Cheap, yes. Understandable, yes.


At this point, i almost wish they had gone a different route with the ending. Mainly because all of the "i want to know about the mystery" people are pissed. I think if they had addressed that stuff more, the "i watch for the character people" wouldn't have been as upset necessarily since there wasn't necessarily anything to wrap up about the characters. Pretty much everyone* would be content. People would have wanted to know what happened to them after the events on the island, but that happened anyway and happens with pretty much any show that ends.

* (there would always, and most likely, be people who didn't like "the answer").

But at the same time, I just don't know what more they could have answered and in a satisfactory way. They DID answer a lot of questions. And there are some things that could be used to answer questions they did not specifically answer. For example, when Hurley said that people couldn't come and go from the island, Ben said "that's how Jacob ran things. Doesn't mean you have to do it the same way." That right there could be used to answer all sorts of things. And it's easy to say, "oh, those are cop out answers." But imo, some of those "cop-out" answers are much better than specifically trying to explain some things. The answers would probably either sound retarded, or just lead to more questions. That's because it's made up, mystical/magical shit. It's not real, and there is no real satisfactory answer. Would "Jacob is a Wizard" have worked?


I also have a tendency to cut people a break in this situation. They wrote a story that ran for over 120 hrs on television. That's the length of 60 movies. I've seen 2hr long movies that didn't wrap up every little detail... and it was perfectly fine. And there have been plenty of trilogies that people didn't like the ending/direction of. They had A LOT of content. And there were audience members that were more into certain aspects of that content than other parts of it. I don't think you can possibly please everyone with "answers." Like I said, the answers will either sound dumb, be unacceptable, or lead to more questions. If you can't do that successfully, and there's a way you'd like to do it that would also not be 100% successful... I say do it the way you want.


The ending they chose DID make sense, and it DID work with the whole run of the show. I get why some didn't like it. but aside from providing more answers via Jacob talking directly into the camera, what direction do you think would have worked better/been more satisfactory? What answers were you expecting a yr ago? Jacob is some biblical figure and MiB is another biblical figure? I see a lot of bitching and no decent example of what would have been better.

[Edited on May 30, 2010 at 6:28 PM. Reason : .]

5/30/2010 6:24:38 PM

Quote :

"Why is it so hard for you to grasp that some people were simply looking for different things from the show? I agree that it's annoying that people are still bitching about the finale, but you're being just as annoying by so adamantly defending it. Just ignore the haters and they will eventually get tired of bitching and go away."

i completely understand that people were looking for different things from the show. it's just that a lot of people are bitching because they didn't get what they wanted, which really wasn't what the show was about in the first place. if that's what got you to come back every week then whatever, but the writers said over and over "the show is about this, not about this," and what was so hard to grasp about that? and the haters will eventually go away regardless.

Quote :

"Are you really that fucking dense that you don't comprehend that all your complaints can be said about you as well?"

are you referring to the fact that i continue reading this thread because i enjoy talking about it and respond to people's posts? how can my complaints be said about me as well when i'm not one of the people who comes into this thread to bitch about the show's ending and how it's shitty story telling and blah blah blah over and over and over?



[Edited on May 31, 2010 at 10:29 PM. Reason : edit fail]

5/31/2010 10:19:00 PM

Quote :

" But I think the mystery stuff has always been mostly a gimmick to hook people who wouldn't otherwise be interested. "

The mystery was a huge part of the show, and yea, now after the finale, looking back, I would agree that most of the show was just a gimmick, since they had no idea where they were going with most of the shit and didn't do a good job resolving anything.

6/1/2010 3:18:06 AM

Quote :

"are you referring to the fact that i continue reading this thread because i enjoy talking about it and respond to people's posts? how can my complaints be said about me as well when i'm not one of the people who comes into this thread to bitch about the show's ending and how it's shitty story telling and blah blah blah over and over and over?"

You're the one that comes in here bitching about people voicing their dislike for it, and responding to it, over and over. Its a different side of the same coin for fucks sake.

6/1/2010 8:43:14 AM

^ ok, and a lot of the people who were voicing their dislike for it (including you), made zero contributions to this thread over the last year, or if they did it was sporadic at most. over the course of several days of these people posting the same shit over and over in here, it got old fast and was completely deserving of someone saying "shut the fuck up about it already." so excuse me if i don't understand why some of you people continue coming in here to piss and moan about it. in your case, i'm sure it's probably related to the fact that i've never noticed you be anything but a complete and utter prick to people on these forums. whatever dude. i'm beating a dead horse. you're the one who continues to post in the LOST thread for shits and giggles because you apparently don't have anything better to do except talk shit on the internet.

6/1/2010 9:14:15 AM

6/1/2010 9:22:55 AM

Quote :

"i'm sure it's probably related to the fact that i've never noticed you be anything but a complete and utter prick to people on these forums."

isn't this the heart of tww?

6/1/2010 9:35:33 AM

Quote :

"ok, and a lot of the people who were voicing their dislike for it (including you), made zero contributions to this thread over the last year, or if they did it was sporadic at most. over the course of several days of these people posting the same shit over and over in here, it got old fast and was completely deserving of someone saying "shut the fuck up about it already." so excuse me if i don't understand why some of you people continue coming in here to piss and moan about it. in your case, i'm sure it's probably related to the fact that i've never noticed you be anything but a complete and utter prick to people on these forums. whatever dude. i'm beating a dead horse. you're the one who continues to post in the LOST thread for shits and giggles because you apparently don't have anything better to do except talk shit on the internet."

It got old to YOU. You're getting old to others. Can you see a pattern here? Its almost like people who disagree about something as polarizing as LOST is are going to clash. Welcome to the internet.

Its nice you notice me around the forums. I haven't noticed you anywhere but this thread. Quote bombing and defending a tv show like its your fucking child.

6/1/2010 9:46:05 AM

Quote :

"It got old to YOU"

i doubt i'm the only one

Quote :

"You're getting old to others"

i doubt i'm the only one. i'm sure your presence in here is embraced whole heartedly.

Quote :

"Can you see a pattern here?"

whatever. cause and effect.

Quote :

"Its almost like people who disagree about something as polarizing as LOST is are going to clash. Welcome to the internet."

i've addressed this.

Quote :

"Its nice you notice me around the forums. I haven't noticed you anywhere but this thread."

i haven't really been posting outside entertainment for a while. i'll step it up for you

Quote :

"Quote bombing"

like this?

Quote :

"and defending a tv show like its your fucking child."

i'll take that over continuing to read and post about something i don't like and repeatedly telling its fans that something they invested a lot of time in is shit.

[Edited on June 1, 2010 at 10:02 AM. Reason : .]

6/1/2010 9:54:34 AM

honestly, i only watched 2 episodes of Lost in my life. I only have an opinion on it to fit in.

side note: Tracy Nelson (Sister Stephanie from Father Dowling Mysteries) never appeared on House, but I really thought she did.

6/1/2010 10:28:50 AM

Quote :

"honestly, i only watched 2 episodes of Lost in my life. I only have an opinion on it to fit in."

case in point, yet i'm the one pegged as the asshole. whatever.

6/1/2010 10:32:40 AM

damn this shit is still going on?

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

6/1/2010 12:36:37 PM

haha yeah, unless you have something else to talk about.

6/1/2010 12:41:20 PM

not really, i think the ending was pretty complete.

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

6/1/2010 12:45:06 PM

no you are wrong it was awful you are a delusional lost fanboy we don't know who juliet shot on the outrigger

6/1/2010 12:47:44 PM

Can a mod please rename this thread to ***Official*** Rat Soup feeds the trolls Thread.

6/1/2010 1:47:46 PM

yeah that'd be awesome. thanks in advance.

6/1/2010 1:54:09 PM

Don't know if any of you watch Revision 3. They have a show that goes into video games, movies, and tv shows.

They had a good discussion about their feelings on the Lost finale. I feel it embodies how I feel about it very well. It's episode 167 for future reference. The link below simply links to the most recent episode.

http://revision3.com/trs/easilier

It begins at the 31:55 mark. Its worth the time IMO.

[Edited on June 1, 2010 at 11:00 PM. Reason : *]

6/1/2010 10:59:42 PM

I watched until the guy said

Quote :

"I thought this was a science fiction show"

Sorry you didn't pay attention to the people behind the show beating you over the head with the notion that it wasn't about science fiction.

6/1/2010 11:04:31 PM

Quote :

" But I honestly think they either missed that the island shit was pretty much a gimmick, or they're pissed that it was used as a gimmick to hook people but those people weren't essentially "respected" by resolving some things."

Not only was it a cheap tactic. It was downright dirty and UNETHICAL. You can't rob people of six years like that and give them nothing. The show would have never survived unless they tricked people into watching it. They OWE us the decency to at least give us something after all we did for them. These guys are going to be black balled and make sure they never make another fucking show again.

I have no problem with twists either. This is nothing like a twist. I love mnight shamalon. This is fucking THEFT and the people who wrote it are scum. Its not like they made a mistake. They deliberately shitted on millions of loyal viewers.

6/1/2010 11:08:14 PM

Everyone can go ahead and ignore that post

6/1/2010 11:09:06 PM

so pretty much like an Ernie post?

6/1/2010 11:12:09 PM

Quote :

"no you are wrong it was awful you are a delusional lost fanboy we don't know who juliet shot on the outrigger"

LOL yea! Silly kids that think the finale wasnt awesome!

I mean really, the whole island was powered by a magic jacuzzi light and then everyone made a magic church in purgatory for a emotional reunion! It was such a great ending, the writers are brilliant. Anyone that disagrees is annoying and should stop posting!

6/2/2010 3:52:49 AM

i just watched the finale yesterday

i was not impressed

carry on

6/2/2010 10:10:03 AM

Quote :

"Everyone can go ahead and ignore that post"

haha i went back and read up to

Quote :

"UNETHICAL"

6/2/2010 11:59:45 AM

Quote :

"Sorry you didn't pay attention to the people behind the show beating you over the head with the notion that it wasn't about science fiction."

Well I'm sorry that you're a fucking moron. Sucks for you.

6/2/2010 4:46:05 PM

THE SHOW WASN'T ABOUT SCIENCE FICTION

you know, except for how most of season 5 was about time travel

6/2/2010 4:50:08 PM

Good point

How about the six seasons that were mostly about the stories of the characters

6/2/2010 5:03:14 PM

thats so ignorant to say the show was about the characters. duh. what show isn't about the characters? that doesn't give it an excuse to have no plot.

6/3/2010 2:04:13 AM

now it didn't have a plot?

6/3/2010 6:01:05 AM

.

[Edited on June 3, 2010 at 6:02 AM. Reason : double post]

6/3/2010 6:01:49 AM

^^ literally nothing happened or was resolved over the course of 6 seasons of this show. how could you forget that?

6/3/2010 8:49:07 AM

good to see you guys haven't given up the good fight. carry on.

6/3/2010 10:07:56 AM

YES there was time travel and all this bullshit about electromagnetism and the dharma initiative

NO it wasn't in any way science fiction

6/3/2010 10:09:51 AM

I agree. It was just a scam to draw syfy viewers in so the show could survive past one season.

6/3/2010 11:47:38 AM

^ so you're basically calling yourself a sucker for watching this show. nice.

6/3/2010 12:09:35 PM

what can i say? it was an elaborate long con.

6/3/2010 12:30:42 PM

good lord people.

i know this thread is pretty much only trollbait now, but the show definitely had a large science fiction part to it. I still think everything on the island can be explained with science (fiction), but the producers just chose not to include those explanations in the finale.

[Edited on June 3, 2010 at 3:29 PM. Reason : ]

6/3/2010 3:29:06 PM

Quote :

"the show definitely had a large science fiction part to it."

No one is arguing that

6/3/2010 3:35:49 PM

it definitely had both science fiction and fantasy elements for sure. But it's not to the extent of something like Star Trek (sci fi) nor LOTR (fantasy). It also had adventure elements.

it had a little bit of everything, but i think the point was that the sci-fi/fantasy elements were never the major focus. but just elements of the show. I have never thought of and would never describe Lost as sci-fi or fantasy. I would certainly tell a potential view that it has those elements, but they are not the driving factors behind the show.

[Edited on June 3, 2010 at 3:43 PM. Reason : .]

6/3/2010 3:37:24 PM

Possible spoilers for the DVD bonus:
http://darkufo.blogspot.com/2010/06/details-on-lost-series-finale-extra.html

Quote :

" "It will address some of the issues, like the food drops, and it will deal with what happened on the island after Hurley took over and how he handled things," Garcia reveals of the DVD bonus feature he shot. "It will give you a taste of what took place after Hurley took over as the new number one. There's a little epilogue thing going on with the DVD." Inside sources also told me that Walt (Malcolm David Kelley) will be shown in the bonus material. "We'll find out what happens to Walt," says the insider. But when asked who else he worked with, Jorge replied coyly: "There are other people in it, but I'm not going to tell you who.""

I think Walt was the biggest loose end left by the show, so I'm really looking forward to seeing this. The food drop stuff is a nice bonus, but I wasn't exactly worried about having that resolved.

6/11/2010 3:26:06 PM

bttt...

for those interested Alan Sepinwall has posted a "re-review" of the finale.

http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/lost-the-end-a-re-review

7/1/2010 8:07:50 AM