Holy shit dude. Hypogonadism treatment is not even on the same level as you using steroids to continue getting jacked at 40 years old.


And I'm sorry, but I am not going to be respectful when someone is recommending abusing amphetamines to get jacked. It is pretty obvious Cass was not looking for such an extreme suggestion, but it's also pretty obvious this guy is so obsessive he is willing to hurt his body to look good.

Self esteem issues ITT.

7/6/2011 10:56:29 PM

Emce what'd you do for your workout today huh?

[Edited on July 6, 2011 at 10:57 PM. Reason : .]

7/6/2011 10:56:54 PM

12 oz. curls


Look, I'm uncomfortable being in this thread. Please let me leave...

7/6/2011 10:58:02 PM

You started posting now I'm gonna hold you to it!

7/6/2011 10:58:33 PM

7/6/2011 10:59:35 PM

I feel a lot better about my body since I started reading this thread, before I literally wouldnt click into this thread and last year's cause I thought I'd feel bad about my chubbiness but seeing pics of awesome women on here makes me feel like I can do this too

7/6/2011 10:59:52 PM

Oh I was totally intimidated by Lucy and joie. Hence not postingphotos til the end BUT it was a super awesome motivator.

You can do it

7/6/2011 11:01:37 PM

How about this scenario: it's only a short matter of time before we start seeing progestin/testosterone treatment prescribed as a viable option for male birth control. While also being incredibly effective as a birth control method, it's also going to have the same effects on the body as HRT/steroid cycles in that anabolic hormone levels are artificially elevated. And unlike HRT treatment that requires bloodwork and doctor recommendations for use, the only requirement to get on male birth control will be that the person be male. Never mind the fact that the drugs will be exactly the same as HRT, but the public perception of their use will be largely positive.

does Samwise not realise how chemically similar amphetamines and phentermine are? for the record, I would never recommend amphetamines for weight loss in a person that actually cares about their shape. The health risks of amphetamines are GREATLY exaggerated, but they have an inordinate ability to cause muscle catabolism. Curing hunger by encouraging your body to eat muscle for energy isn't the best weight-loss plan.

[Edited on July 6, 2011 at 11:08 PM. Reason : I bet the women in here knocking steroids as dangerous are on birth control. talk about hypocritical]

7/6/2011 11:06:16 PM

Birth control varies with the different type, so please be more specific.

And I am aware that phetermine is also not the best option and can be dangerous. I was on that at one point, too.

7/6/2011 11:12:19 PM

estrogen / progestin combinations specifically. sex hormones taken exogenously and deemed safe by doctors.

7/6/2011 11:17:53 PM

How is it hypocritical? And you still need to be more specific because not every pill is the same combination, not even close.

7/6/2011 11:22:36 PM

you're taking female sex hormones that were not made by your body to reach an unnatural goal of preventing reproduction, yet you're criticizing any man that would dare take male sex hormones that are every bit as safe to cause the body to reach an equally unnatural goal. I'd say that's pretty hypocritical.

[Edited on July 6, 2011 at 11:28 PM. Reason : the combination isn't important - the mode of action is.]

7/6/2011 11:28:18 PM

Not every woman is on birth control to prevent pregnancy. Many women use it to aid in menstruation severity (myself included).

Taking steroids to get jacked is not on the same level as preventing menstruation severity or even reproduction. Now, taking steroids due to a genetic disorder is completely different. But don't try to say we're hypocritical for protecting our bodies from pain/heavy bleeding (or even childbirth) to aesthetics.


This thread sucks.

7/6/2011 11:31:49 PM

I've ran the last two days and my legs are pretty sore. I was proud that I did it because my asthma has been bothering me recently. But, no excuses, play like a champion. Now I just need to eat better.

7/6/2011 11:37:11 PM

Samwise16 going buck wild ITT

at first I thought it was maximus ruining the thread

now I'm not so sure :/

7/6/2011 11:59:42 PM

i'm sorry to bring this back up.

i'm gonna leave the meds out of this.
i'm getting a freaking doctorate in that shit and i can tell you more than you'll ever want to know.

i'm sure you guys can guess my stance.

Quote :

"I recommend watching the documentary Bigger, Faster, Stronger for a unbiased perspective on steroid usage in America."

i watched this a few weeks ago.
i found this to be incredibly biased....

i felt it wasn't as much about not about the safety of steriods, but the legality of it.
it was also directed by one of three brothers who idolized arnold schwarzenegger.
if i'm not mistaken all three took steroids.

i understand that they tried to give a fair unbiased view on steroids but i did NOT get an unbiased vibe from the movie at all.
i mean they interviewed a guy who's son committed suicide (supposedly) due to steroid use.
and they interviewed doctors who were against.
good for them.
but i felt like the whole time their agenda was clear.
they found a lot of people who agreed with them and let it ride.
and then they took a bunch of statistics and reversed them in a way that was more conducing to them.


i'd have to watch it again to give you more specifics, but i remember at the end cody and i both kinda looked at each other with o.O

(and if it helps i am motly FOR legalizing steroids, as well as other drugs....so i am actually saying this biased to the other side. hehehe isn't that ironic?)



[Edited on July 7, 2011 at 12:48 AM. Reason : sdfdfs]

7/7/2011 12:38:07 AM

^I think you missed a lot of what the director was trying to say in that movie. His one brother refused to come off of steroids because it would eliminate his competitiveness in powerlifting, even though his wife wanted him to so that they could have another child. The other brother was using them to chase a pipe dream of becoming a professional wrestler and was dragging his wife into poverty and depression with him. The steroids weren't the cause of their problems though - it was their unrealistic pursuit of "the American dream". American culture simultaneously hates on steroids as cheating while idolizing the results they cause in sports, entertainment, and physical appearance.

7/7/2011 12:54:28 AM

^ i can see that.

i probably didn't focus on that as much as i should have, but i'm a medic at heart.


i was looking for lab results and statistics.
an all i got was doctors anecdotal evidence.




but that being said, i was trying to say i didn't think the movie was unbiased.
at all.


do you think it was?


[Edited on July 7, 2011 at 1:02 AM. Reason : man i wanna steroid thread now, i have some interesting views i wanna get out there and some ?s]

7/7/2011 1:00:06 AM

the anecdotal evidence was refuting the only two deaths attributed to steroids. He starts off with a speech about the possible side effects of steroid use on men and women using some sort of documentary.

I didn't think the movie was unbiased, but I wouldn't expect any movie on that topic to be directed by a person that doesn't have first-hand knowledge of the subject. It'd be like hearing about the social impacts of marijuana use from a person that doesn't even have friends that smoke pot.

7/7/2011 1:09:22 AM

fair enough my dear.

maybe i don't remember as much of it as i should.

i just distinctly remember cody and i thinking the same thing when it was done.


but like i've said a million times on this board-i could be wrong

7/7/2011 1:11:49 AM

Quote :

"American culture simultaneously hates on steroids as cheating while idolizing the results they cause in sports, entertainment, and physical appearance."

Very good summation of it.

I really just started working out "seriously" for the first time in my life (I'm 21). I've usually stayed in fairly good overall shape from running, but I never hit the weight room or anything - as a matter of fact, I always despised it because I was scrawny growing up. I just got done watching it, and it kind of made me think about what my expectations were, as I never really did before. I don't weigh/critique myself every day, so when I finally randomly flexed in the mirror at the gym at the end of a workout, I was really surprised to actually see my work paying off. I guess I could see how that could lead someone to getting out of hand eventually, particularly if their main passions revolved around getting that feeling/result.

One of my favorite parts of the documentary was when he was with the psychiatrist (or whoever) with the GI Joe action figures, talking about how our grandpas didn't go walking around trying to see who had the best 6 pack. I'd like to think that I have that mentality, and I'm just sort of doing this for personal satisfaction/betterment. We'll see .

7/7/2011 2:13:09 AM

Quote :

"Holy shit dude. Hypogonadism treatment is not even on the same level as you using steroids to continue getting jacked at 40 years old. And I'm sorry, but I am not going to be respectful when someone is recommending abusing amphetamines to get jacked. It is pretty obvious Cass was not looking for such an extreme suggestion, but it's also pretty obvious this guy is so obsessive he is willing to hurt his body to look good. Self esteem issues ITT."

I was going to leave this alone, but it's a little hard to when it is such a blatant attack at me personally, rather than a constructive argument.

First, hypogonadism is a term to describe abnormally low sex hormones, due at any cause. Some people produce lower levels than others simply due to different genetics. Different doctors will use different standard levels to rx hormones to someone. So one doctor may consider a normal guy, with slightly low levels of Test., to have hypogonadism and approve a Test therapy.

Using this therapy to level the playing field is done by MANY MANY people. Many more than you probably realize. And the fact is, it's not that unhealthy. When administered properly it can raise the quality of life for almost any person.

Secondly, you need to grow up and stop making assumptions, over generalizations and insults to people who think differently than you. Conversation is much more productive and effective when you don't rely on personal attacks based on false assumptions to defend an argument.

7/7/2011 6:48:45 AM

Up early today so I guess I will run this morning as well. Any one got any recomendations for shin splints?

7/7/2011 6:49:01 AM

steroids

7/7/2011 6:53:36 AM

>_>

7/7/2011 6:57:55 AM

If youve got shin splints after two days youre in for a long road of pain (pun intended).

Ice, compression, and rest. I suggest biking, rowing, really anything else but running on asphalt.

7/7/2011 7:51:00 AM

bmel's post was actually about me

and I did get shin splints after like 3 days of running, but I think part of it is that my right knee is fucked from ACL reconstructive surgery, making my stride different and over compensating with my left leg, where I got my shin splint. Right shin is fine.

7/7/2011 7:57:26 AM

Foam roller helpful for those?

Damn thing has become my solution for everything

7/7/2011 7:57:36 AM

See Peter, I told you to run on the dirt instead. I always get a mild case of shin splints when I start running. I usually just run through it and tough it out, if it isn't too bad. It's nothing compared to my asthma and the metal plate in my ankle.

7/7/2011 7:59:12 AM

Well my excuse there is that the dirt in the area I run is uneven on the side of the road and I don't need to misstep and jack my knee up


on steroids

7/7/2011 8:01:15 AM

I think the Elliptical is a great alternative as well. At least until you heal. Bella would probably disagree though.

7/7/2011 8:07:57 AM

Yeah I was going to start doing that and the bike, plus leg extensions with the bench attachment plus some deadlifts. Just need time to get in there

Maybe adderall can help me

7/7/2011 8:09:18 AM

I'm pretty sure you don't have to expend any calories to use the elliptical.

The row machine is a much better no-impact option.

7/7/2011 8:20:51 AM

FTR, hypogonadism is typically talked about in genetic situations as it is not uncommon (i.e., Klinefelter's) and it can be considered multifactorial. In some cases it can also be caused by ... wait for it... steroid use. Regardless, I don't understand why you're using that example to push the use of steroids when those with gonadal deficiency, male or female, need such hormones to maintain an adequately functioning body. If someone presents with hypogonadism, I would be willing to bet a ton of dollar bucks their doctor doesn't recommend steroids to beef them up in the way you're considering. A lot of the hormones prescribed are necessary for developmental processes. Key example? Glucocorticoid use in children suspected of having CAH to prevent virilization.

Call it a personal attack all you want, but I'm not going to support someone offering extreme methods when they're uncalled for. Im not sorry for anything I said, and I sincerely hope you love yourself and aren't taking such extreme measures just for aesthetics.

7/7/2011 8:43:12 AM

To get this thread back on a semi-related topic. I'm glad that I started perusing this far more and it has taught me quite a bit. It has definitely woken me up to do more research and has me moving towards my goal - which I won't make this summer, but definitely hope to attain by next summer

[Edited on July 7, 2011 at 9:02 AM. Reason : since starting in May I have dropped from 225 to ~202]

7/7/2011 9:01:56 AM

i :heart: bmel.

with that said, i'm late to the game but no adderall for me. not really my thing, mostly because of my sensitivities to a lot of medications.

MattJMM2 besides the use of drugs (which by the way - you can't just go to a MD anymore and get a prescription - i think you have to go to a specialized psychiatrist to get a legit prescription but then again there's always a quack of a doctor in the bunch), you did list some really good suggestions. i try to avoid any form of snacking especially after dinner and fill up on water. i also try to keep busy with something else to take my mind off of it. a lot of times if it's like 9pm and i start to feel hungry, i just go to bed. i read an article recently that said a lot of late night hunger is actually your body telling you you're tired.

but in all seriousness, can we get back on topic here. arguing raises stress levels, which raises cortisol levels, which will make us all fat (i'm kidding by the way....kind of) so let's just get back to being positive and stop letting this thread turn into every other negative thread on tww. kk thanks.

7/7/2011 9:21:04 AM

ITT we learn samwise has some deep seeded issues about her stint on adderall.

7/7/2011 9:22:38 AM

I take adderalll 4-5 times a week, but I don't pretend to be naive about its effects on me

Its legal cocaine

7/7/2011 9:23:59 AM

Not really. I felt the side effects but it made me stay awake and not fall asleep during class, while driving, etc. I appreciated it for improving my quality of life when it came to hypersomnia but also quickly realized the pitfalls.

7/7/2011 9:25:28 AM

yo someone hook my fat ass up with some adderall

I got shit to do and weight to lose

7/7/2011 9:25:33 AM

7/7/2011 9:30:25 AM

I feel like MattJMM2 is getting unfairly shat on here. He's in much better shape than all of us, and like he said, having a muscular physique AND defined abs is not a natural condition. Its usually one or the other. To get both, if you have to cut corners, if you have to "play god' and mess with the natural balance of chemicals in your body, than so be it. It is an option, not a requirement. I use adderall mainly because I'm a space cadet and it helps me get shit done at the office. The fact that it helps me eat less and make me more motivated to work out is a bonus. Its a controlled substance, yes, but one thats readily available for most people with health insurance. Ignore his advise if you want, but disregarding all the valuable contributions he's made to this thread for merely suggesting amphetamines when he was solicted for advice on how to stop cravings is asinine. Its your prerogative not to use the the wonders of modern medicine to aid you in your beach body quest, but knocking someone else for doing so makes you look like the nutjob.

7/7/2011 9:35:15 AM

Quote :

"Ignore his advise if you want, but disregarding all the valuable contributions he's made to this thread for merely suggesting amphetamines when he was solicted for advice on how to stop cravings is asinine. Its your prerogative not to use the the wonders of modern medicine to aid you in your beach body quest, but knocking someone else for doing so makes you look like the nutjob. "

7/7/2011 9:58:36 AM

Quote :

"Ignore his advise if you want, but disregarding all the valuable contributions he's made to this thread for merely suggesting amphetamines when he was solicted for advice on how to stop cravings is asinine. Its your prerogative not to use the the wonders of modern medicine to aid you in your beach body quest, but knocking someone else for doing so makes you look like the nutjob."

7/7/2011 10:13:20 AM

I don't think anyone was knocking the advice he has given. I will agree with Cass and say he had some great points in that list - but if not keeping mum on a touchy topic makes me crazy then whatevs.

7/7/2011 10:14:45 AM

Quote :

"Ignore his advise if you want, but disregarding all the valuable contributions he's made to this thread for merely suggesting amphetamines when he was solicted for advice on how to stop cravings is asinine. "

just to be clear - i never solicited him specifically for advice on stopping cravings. i asked the entire thread what they did and he offered his suggestion.

just a FYI.

7/7/2011 10:15:44 AM

Woah, this thread blew up.

Can we get back to what we saw around page 35-45?

I really liked the part where it was mostly amateurs talking about what worked for them. When stuff started getting technical (and let's face it MattJMM2 has become the embodiment of "I know everything ITT"), I lost interest.

This isn't a bodybuilding competition, it's people getting healthy.

7/7/2011 10:36:34 AM

Quote :

"and let's face it MattJMM2 has become the embodiment of "I know everything ITT""

If he was porky pig, you'd have an argument. But when a fit person tells you how to get fit, you should listen. If Peter North tried to give you sex tips, would you turn him down?

7/7/2011 10:42:11 AM

If I wanted in-depth instruction from a personal trainer, I'd go looking elsewhere.

If I wanted to talk to peers about similar getting-in-shape goals, I'd probably post in a challenge thread specifically targeted at that.

...oh wait.

7/7/2011 10:44:54 AM

He's trying to help. You gained 12 pounds in one week. You need help. I don't see why you're so reluctant to take advice from someone who's actually qualified to give it.

7/7/2011 10:48:07 AM