^He could start up a lottery program where they randomly draw a seat from the student section. This student would then be dressed out and play guard for the last 5 minutes of the game. The result would be worse, but at least it would be an entertaining level of bad instead of a rage inducing level of bad. Plus it would increase game attendance during these down years.

1/15/2009 7:44:46 AM

Quote :

"Point is, our players are not that good. Period."

Yeah, man. Like when he had that JJ Hickson guy. He sucked. Can't believe he thought he was a first round draft pick in the NBA.

And the Costner guy who nearly took us to an ACC Championship? No talent there at all. Might as well be Levi Watkins.



It's not that our players aren't good, it's that any potential they have is being either A) squandered or B) not developed. I mean, honestly, name one player from our NIT season that hasn't regressed.

1/15/2009 8:07:44 AM

Quote :

"I personally like the post in: http://wolfpackhoops.blogspot.com/2009/01/steady-wolfpack-nationsteady.html. Pretty spot on to how I feel. Great write-up I am amazed at the amount of Lowe hate in here. Truly amazed. Is he an awesome coach? No. Will he ever be? Who knows. But I know that it's not like he sits back and eats CookOut reading the paper during practice. All the players talk about the fundamentals Lowe drills into them. They talk about him encouraging making the right decisions. How he wants a fast-paced, running offense and how he conditioned them for it. And then in the game... nothing. No running. The guards pick up the dribble at half court. McCauley is helping on a double team 4 feet beyond the 3 line. You think Lowe told him to do that? He should know better and I'm sure he does. But he still did it. I'm sure Lowe didn't tell Fells to jack up 4-5 3's from fucking Fuquay in the last 3 mins of the game. But he still did it. I'm pretty sure Lowe didn't badly-coach Ferg to miss every damn shot he took. I highly doubt Lowe tells Horner to pump-fake his way into a turnover. I don't think Lowe coached Javi on how to dribble off his own damn foot. You get the idea. Lowe may not be an elite coach, but to put all of the blame on him is fucking ludicrous. Guess what... I could be coached by Roy Williams for an entire year and I guaran-damn-tee I would still suck in an actual ACC game. Point is, our players are not that good. Period. People scream about taking certain people out. OK. So he does that. Then what? Who else can come in and take over? Other than Mays showing some damn balls, who else can he turn to? Consider that the next time you cuss his substitutions. Like he said in the post-game... EVERY TEAM wants to put in the seniors/starters/best players in the last minutes to bring the game home. EVERY FUCKING TEAM. He tried it and our starters blew it. OMG, Lowe coached the stupid decisions and missed shots. Right. Costner and Fells are dripping with potential, but just aren't consistent. I don't remember seeing Lowe on the sideline telling Costner to take it slow and casually walk around the perimeter and then take a bad shot. Give me a break. Lowe may be a little less flexible on getting out of his NBA-style thought process, but if we actually had GOOD players, this wouldn't be an issue. I've said from the beginning that I'd give at least 5-6 yrs before I pass serious judgment and start calling for his head. I don't see what is so hard about that. Stop crying like bitches and support your team AND THE COACH. Jesus, go jump on the UNC bandwagon if you hate it so much here. Oh and yes, fuck Lee Fowler. LOL /too many words"

this guy is right.

i think the main problem is that some of our fans need to get a fucking life. follow the team, but don't spend all day trying to figure out the problem, go do something else.

1/15/2009 8:16:42 AM

Quote :

"Guess what... I could be coached by Roy Williams for an entire year and I guaran-damn-tee I would still suck in an actual ACC game."

Wrong.

1/15/2009 9:01:40 AM

^^^ c'mon man. You bring up TWO guys over the course of 3 years to prove your point?

JJ was good. OK. But that was last year and EVERYONE ELSE sucked it up.

Costner's run was 2 YEARS AGO.

I'm talking the present, not the past.

^ I really believe that to be true. You mean to tell me that Roy is so good that he could take a 6'1" 175lb guy that's never played organized ball and make me ACC caliber in a year? Really? I appreciate your confidence in me, but I think not.

[Edited on January 15, 2009 at 9:41 AM. Reason : truly]

1/15/2009 9:40:47 AM

last check roy williams team of mcd aa's was o-2 in the acc.

1/15/2009 9:49:22 AM

omg fire lowe! our guys can't hit an open jump shot, dribble of their foot constantly, and every now and then decide to take some plays off and be lazy... its lowe's fault! roy williams or coach k could automatically make this team acc champions this year!!!

1/15/2009 10:00:01 AM

Quote :

"i think the main problem is that some of our fans need to get a fucking life. follow the team, but don't spend all day trying to figure out the problem, go do something else. "

Yeah, let's just be lucky we have a basketball team. Who cares if they're the worst team in the ACC?

Quote :

"Stop crying like bitches and support your team AND THE COACH. Jesus, go jump on the UNC bandwagon if you hate it so much here. "

We'll stop crying like bitches if you'll stop acting like a bitch. Blind support =/= a better fan.

It's like some of our mistakes are so bad, it looks like they're doing it on purpose. It's very hard to get behind a team that looks like it's ready to lose the game before it even begins. I would like to see NC State win championships but I'll settle for seeing them play with some pride and confidence first.

Everybody on here complaining about Lowe and the team still watch/follow every game. Obviously they support the team enough to come on here and discuss it with other people. But nothing will ever change if fans "stop crying like little bitches," especially with fucking Lee Fowler in charge.

1/15/2009 10:06:39 AM

We are the school that would go to a game to boo at a coach who was taking us to the NCAA every year. So I guess this idiotic thread is to be expected. The fact that any of you would even begin to complain about Lowe before year three is even over is INSANE!! On top of that he got such a late start on his first year that this is more like the 2nd full year he has been here. Give the man a break. He is proving that he is capable of bringing in recruits and until he has a FULL team of his recruits we won't be able to see his or our teams potential.

1/15/2009 10:13:44 AM

^^I dont really see a discussion from most of the lowe haters


Just lots of Lowe needs to be fired, Lowe sucks, Lowe is worse than les robinson.






[Edited on January 15, 2009 at 10:15 AM. Reason : ^^]

1/15/2009 10:15:10 AM

true, there are those


but there are some on the other side that only say "still credible" or "stop crying"

1/15/2009 10:20:37 AM

I am not a Lowe hater.... but I can't see how people (like the dude in the big article above) are willing to wait "5 or 6 years before passing judgment".

1/15/2009 10:28:48 AM

so can we lock this thread now that Rally sees its not all Lowe's fault?


^b/c most people realize he has a project, not a quick fix on his hands. He needs and deserves 5 years.

[Edited on January 15, 2009 at 10:35 AM. Reason : ]

1/15/2009 10:34:19 AM

Sure worked out great for Steve Lavin at UCLA, I'm sure the AD was happy they gave him his 6th year so he could go 10-19.

How is UCLA doing after they finally canned him in his 6th year???

and Howland had a project too....I know it's apples to oranges but there are other examples of coaches not needing 5 years as well. How about Cal this year? Minnesota?

[Edited on January 15, 2009 at 10:40 AM. Reason : s]

1/15/2009 10:36:25 AM

and on the other side of the coin

Look what Coach K and Herb did in their 5th and 6th years


It goes both ways dude


Lowe isnt going anywhere and I dont know why you would want him gone with fowler still at the helm. Do you really think he can find someone better than lowe who doesnt fall right into his lap?

1/15/2009 10:39:05 AM

Quote :

"I can't see how people (like the dude in the big article above) are willing to wait "5 or 6 years before passing judgment"."

i can't speak for him, but the reason i am willing to do this is twofold. first, i think he's going to get better w/ time, b/c clearly there is a learning curve to being the head coach of a college team. second, there are a whole lot of college basketball coaches who do very well while not being the best coach ever, but due to running a good enough system and having good players. the good players part takes time b/c you have to establish recruiting relationships, and i like what i'm seeing regarding recruiting so far (some disagree). clearly he made some bad decisions out of desperation, but he looks to have some real studs coming in brown, howell, harrow and leslie.

if he's not good enough to take those kids and make a good team out of them, well then he's in over his head. but i don't think it's fair to him, seeing as he saved our ass by even taking the job, to not let him try.

and let me just clarify in saying that he doesn't need "his own" players. that's stupid, and that's not what i'm saying. mccauley, costner and fells are all quality players. what he does need are guards. he's fucked up in that regard w/ gonzalez, degand and johnson, not to mention whiffing on warren. that is on him, but he looks to be on the right track w/ brown, wood and harrow.

1/15/2009 10:39:07 AM

Quote :

"^^^ c'mon man. You bring up TWO guys over the course of 3 years to prove your point? JJ was good. OK. But that was last year and EVERYONE ELSE sucked it up. Costner's run was 2 YEARS AGO. I'm talking the present, not the past. "

And why did everyone else suck it up? Because of a clear lack of effort and who is ultimately responsible for things like that: the coach.

But really, explain to me how you can be a good coach who has an NBA first round draft pick and four starters who nearly won the ACC championship the year before and still be as terrible as we were last year. There are teams in the ACC who would've killed for the lineup we had last year and yet we blew ass.

What I love the most is that people hated being above-average so much (you know, because we're an elite basketball program that's won a championship!), that they're now trying to justify being a bad team in the hopes that all these allegedly great players we're going to pull in will make our coach better.

[Edited on January 15, 2009 at 10:42 AM. Reason : .]

1/15/2009 10:40:44 AM

Quote :

"Sure worked out great for Steve Lavin at UCLA, I'm sure the AD was happy they gave him his 6th year so he could go 10-19. How is UCLA doing after they finally canned him in his 6th year??? and Howland had a project too....I know it's apples to oranges but there are other examples of coaches not needing 5 years as well. How about Cal this year? Minnesota? "

6th year? I just said he deserves 5 years, and as much of a Lowe supporter as I am, I still think he should be canned if he can't get us turned around in 5 seasons.


I will eat a pile of shit if the Sidney Lowe bandwagon isn't full after the 2010 season.


And didn't Lavin go to a final 4 in his first 2 seasons? or win it all? something retarded like that i thought.

[Edited on January 15, 2009 at 10:42 AM. Reason : ]

1/15/2009 10:41:20 AM

^He had the best recruiting classes hands down for 6 years and went to one Final Four and one Elite 8. Preseason #1 in 4 of 6 years. They were calling for his head in year 4.

Baron Davis once famously stated that his UCLA team "should have a banner up there: the only team to make the tournament without a coach."

Quote :

"Do you really think he can find someone better than lowe who doesn't fall right into his lap?"

I hear this a lot... is this a majority feeling among State fans or just a few? I can think of a couple assistants who have been in the college game for a while who would jump at the opportunity... but I'm guessing it's more of a "Oh, I'm working for and with Fowler, no thanks" issue


[Edited on January 15, 2009 at 10:55 AM. Reason : ]]

1/15/2009 10:45:03 AM

^With as well as Lowe has been doing on the recruiting trail, why would you want to fire him in favor of some no-name assistant? Lowe is at least a name with an NBA background. I do think most NC State fans don't want to go through the disaster that was the last coaching search again...especially before giving Lowe the time he deserves. And I'm saying MOST....not the message board dumbasses.

Quote :

"i like what i'm seeing regarding recruiting so far (some disagree). clearly he made some bad decisions out of desperation, but he looks to have some real studs coming in brown, howell, harrow and leslie. if he's not good enough to take those kids and make a good team out of them, well then he's in over his head. but i don't think it's fair to him, seeing as he saved our ass by even taking the job, to not let him try. and let me just clarify in saying that he doesn't need "his own" players. that's stupid, and that's not what i'm saying. mccauley, costner and fells are all quality players. what he does need are guards. he's fucked up in that regard w/ gonzalez, degand and johnson, not to mention whiffing on warren. that is on him, but he looks to be on the right track w/ brown, wood and harrow. "

Good post Simonn

[Edited on January 15, 2009 at 10:49 AM. Reason : ]

1/15/2009 10:48:03 AM

Quote :

"I hear this a lot... is this a majority feeling among State fans or just a few? I can think of a couple assistants who have been in the college game for a while who would jump at the opportunity... but I'm guessing it's more of a "Oh, I'm working for and with Fowler, no thanks" issue"

i'm sure that there are, but lee fowler doesn't know who they are.

maybe he's learned from his mistakes, but going out and trying to get rick barnes to leave texas was just stupid. trying to get calipari was alright i guess. trying to get steve lavin was simply ridiculous. imo he should've tried the name w/ calipari perhaps, and when that didn't happen should've started looking at quality assistants. no need to go after steve lavin, even if i don't think he's as terrible as sd2nc does.

i would much rather give sidney lowe his due chance (which really, i'd do regardless) than have lee fowler give looking for a coach another shot.

1/15/2009 10:53:52 AM

I didn't say I wanted him fired, but I hear a lot of "Who the fuck would want to come here if we fired our coach after 3 or 4 years???" I'm guessing there's more people than we may think. (The first that comes to mind is Mike Dunlap with UofA, but I know there are others)

1/15/2009 10:54:23 AM

Quote :

""Who the fuck would want to come here if we fired our coach after 3 or 4 years???""

yeah i say that a lot, but it's usually in response to people who feel like the "sidney lowe experiment" is over and we need a proven winner. if we fire sidney lowe right now, i would be shocked if we got someone who has done anything of substance as a head coach in d1.

1/15/2009 10:56:49 AM

Quote :

"But really, explain to me how you can be a good coach who has an NBA first round draft pick and four starters who nearly won the ACC championship the year before and still be as terrible as we were last year. There are teams in the ACC who would've killed for the lineup we had last year and yet we blew ass. "

Really? Guess what the biggest piece of that puzzle was missing. Atsur

During Lowes first year, when atsur was playing, we made adjustments, played high/low bball, ran backdoor screens perfectly etc etc etc

Lowe was coaching just fine when he had a decent PG in atsur. When grant was point look what happened. Lowe was still coaching but just about all that went out the window because grant was a shitty PG. Degand, Gonzo, Johnson are shitty PGs. Are you picking up on the trend yet?

1/15/2009 10:58:45 AM

College basketball success is mostly based on guard play. We haven't had a single quality guard since Atsur graduated.

We have some quality guards coming in Lowe's next couple of classes. If he can't show marked improvement with good guards, then it's time to talk about moving on from the Lowe era.

Right now he doesn't have much to work with. Our frontcourt is actually one of the better frontcourts in the ACC, but our backcourt is one of the worst in the country. It's actually pretty amazing that we've done as well as we have.

Conversely, in the 5 year run that we had with 20+ win seasons, hanging out in the top 25, and making the NCAA tourney each year, we had a solid backcourt and a fairly bad frontcourt. If we had an engin atsur and a cam bennerman right now, who were solid, but not spectacular guards, we'd probably be undefeated right now when you combine that with our current frontcourt.

[Edited on January 15, 2009 at 11:05 AM. Reason : hell even archie miller would be a huge upgrade over our degand/javi]

1/15/2009 11:04:07 AM

Quote :

" Like he said in the post-game... EVERY TEAM wants to put in the seniors/starters/best players in the last minutes to bring the game home. EVERY FUCKING TEAM. He tried it and our starters blew it. "

Again, I don't get the idea that any of the people criticizing him are even talking about that. If anything people who get mad when he even gets questioned are extrapolating the ONE game against FSU back and trying to rewrite the rest of the season to date by saying the seniors blow and they are the reason we are losing.

The reality is that in almost every game, we have been led by the seniors and have built a lead (Clemson is the first game where we were losing at the half ALL season long). Then the crazy substitution pattern that is so talked about on here happens and we end up giving up the lead and are usually down 4-5 points. The seniors come back in and we draw even and then it's a 50/50 tossup down the stretch.

Honestly, I'm sick and tired of having to listen to people say when we FINALLY get these guys out of the system we will be better. I'm sorry, but losing talented players isn't making us better. Especially when you have to replace them with freshman who are the same or lower talent level. I just simply don't buy that ALL THREE of our Top 100 recruit seniors (including TWO Top 30) are talentless hacks that were overrated. That just doesn't happen. For whatever reasons, NC State hasn't gotten the most out of their talent. And I think that can be directly attributed to both Herb Sendek AND Sidney Lowe.

Quote :

"I know it's apples to oranges but there are other examples of coaches not needing 5 years as well. How about Cal this year? Minnesota?"

Man, I went to a few Cal games last year and they looked very mediocre and that was WITH Ryan Anderson. What a college coach Mike Montgomery is. He has basically took the same cast of characters MINUS the best potential returning player and has made them look like, in my opinion, a Top 15 team...

[Edited on January 15, 2009 at 11:06 AM. Reason : x]

1/15/2009 11:04:43 AM

You're right. Engin Atsur was a god-king, while JJ Hickson was just some schlub off the street.

I said it before and I'll say it again:

Quote :

"I just want you guys to realize that you're basically arguing that trading a mediocre-at-best point guard for a first round NBA-caliber bigman made us a substantially worse team. I liked Atsur as much as anyone, and I get the whole "PG is the QB" crap, but look at what you're trying to argue here and be reasonable."

1/15/2009 11:06:41 AM

well then you dont understand basketball very well

Never said atsur was a "god-king", I said he was not a shitty PG. He was actually a SG that played the point well.


So I guess you wanted JJ to bring the ball up the court since he was some "god-king"

[Edited on January 15, 2009 at 11:10 AM. Reason : no then]

1/15/2009 11:10:13 AM

I want someone who's going to be able to coach a team towards what strengths it does have, rather than it's obvious deficiencies.

To me, that's what makes a good coach.

1/15/2009 11:12:47 AM

Lowe is a god-king

1/15/2009 11:16:47 AM

Wake Forest:


With Chris Paul....Eric Williams was a potential top 10 NBA draft pick.

Without Chris Paul....Eric Williams sucked donkey balls.



I'm not saying you need a guard as good as Paul, but a guard half as good (like Atsur...who can at least control the game and get the ball where it needs to go and score 10-15/game) would help us tremendously.

If you're arguing that Lowe sucks because he won with an OK player at point guard in atsur but lost with first round NBA talent in JJ hickson, you are proving that you don't understand the game.

[Edited on January 15, 2009 at 11:31 AM. Reason : ]

1/15/2009 11:29:14 AM

Quote :

"I want someone who's going to be able to coach a team towards what strengths it does have, rather than it's obvious deficiencies."

Name one coach who can coach a player to magically teleport the basketball from the inbound into the hands of the bigs.

Because that's the only way we're gonna be able to work around our deficiencies with your logic.

1/15/2009 11:53:13 AM

Quote :

"but he looks to have some real studs coming in brown, howell, harrow and leslie."

'nuff said...If we still suck when these guys are here, then bump this thread

1/15/2009 12:03:10 PM

^Don't forget Wood.

I realize why he was left off that list, but he's averaging over 30 a game in hs, and i think his 3P% and ft% are phenomenal.

1/15/2009 12:07:26 PM

Quote :

"****averaged 23.6 points, 10.8 rebounds, and 8.3 assists this past [Junior] season"

Damn good line... I wonder what kind of college player this kid will be.

1/15/2009 12:11:32 PM

Sidney doesn't turn the ball over or take these bad shots.

I fucking hate this argument. If this is the case, it's NEVER the coaches fault. Why does any coach ever get fired? Just cut the whole roster and start over.

Stein is winning the hell out of this thread.

Quote :

"What I love the most is that people hated being above-average so much (you know, because we're an elite basketball program that's won a championship!), that they're now trying to justify being a bad team in the hopes that all these allegedly great players we're going to pull in will make our coach better."

Yep.

Also I don't think I've ever seen so much love for a non-top 100 recruit in Scott Wood. I know he can shot and all of this but none of you guys know that he will turn out to be a great player. He may be another Ferguson or Horner. Ferguson was recruited by Pitt and Horner was nearly the same rated recruit as Wood.

Erios: How could you say our recruiting classes are getting better?

We had Hickson, Smith, Javi all together in a near top 10 class and then followed with CJ Williams and Julius Mays. Next year's is ok but not great. 2 top 100 recruits and a sleeper, sounds like Hickson's class all over.

1/15/2009 12:13:11 PM

Quote :

"Stein is winning the hell out of this thread. "

Then you're just as retarded as Stein is.

Quote :

"Name one coach who can coach a player to magically teleport the basketball from the inbound into the hands of the bigs. Because that's the only way we're gonna be able to work around our deficiencies with your logic. "

BobbyDigital just won this thread

Quote :

"Also I don't think I've ever seen so much love for a non-top 100 recruit in Scott Wood. I know he can shot and all of this but none of you guys know that he will turn out to be a great player. He may be another Ferguson or Horner. Ferguson was recruited by Pitt and Horner was nearly the same rated recruit as Wood. "

True. But ferguson also snapped both of his wrists coming out of highschool

Quote :

"Erios: How could you say our recruiting classes are getting better? We had Hickson, Smith, Javi all together in a near top 10 class and then followed with CJ Williams and Julius Mays. Next year's is ok but not great. 2 top 100 recruits and a sleeper, sounds like Hickson's class all over. "

Because sid is recruiting exactly what we need. A guy who can dribble the ball up the court and not off his foot. What was our rating for that hickson class? mid 20's?

1/15/2009 12:18:38 PM

http://acc.starnewsonline.com/default.asp?item=2315491

Quote :

"ACC INSIDER: Wait 'till next year Wolfpack I do a radio talk show in Fayetteville every Monday night (on 640 AM from 6-8 p.m. You can usually hear it in Wilmington once daylight savings time kicks in), and my co-host -- Allen Smothers -- is an unabashed N.C. State fan. A couple of days ago, he told me that he still thinks his Wolfpack is an NCAA Tournament team. I'd be willing to bet that he's not the only one wearing red and white with that opinion. While that optimism is commendable, I just don't see it happening. Tuesday night's second-half meltdown against Florida State in State's ACC home opener sealed the deal for me. If you can't beat the Seminoles on your own court -- with a four-point lead with under seven minutes to play -- then who are you going to beat in this league? There aren't any more High Points, Towsons or Winston-Salem States left on the schedule. Given the mess that is the Wolfpack's point guard situation, Ben McCauley's disappearing act against Clemson and Florida State and the revloving door philosophy coach Sidney Lowe seems to have with his rotation, the most positive thing I can say about State is that there's always next year. That doesn't mean throwing away the rest of this season. If Tom O'Brien and State's football team proved nothing else, it's that anything is possible. What it does mean is playing Julius Mays at the point full-time. It means giving fellow freshman C.J. Williams major minutes like he got Tuesday, rather than burying him on the bench as he did in sitting out the previous two games. It means starting Tracy Smith, with his athleticism and potential up-side, ahead of the more physically limited McCauley. It's also up to Lowe to keep this team focused and motivated, no matter how bad things might get. Otherwise, last year's nine-game, season-ending losing streak could very well end up being more than just a bad memory."

1/15/2009 12:25:01 PM

Scout Ratings:
2007 Class 17th
2008 Class Not ranked
2009 Class 20th

So we are giving Lowe a chance with a class that isn't even as good as JJ's was.

1/15/2009 12:25:11 PM

yes, b/c jj's class didn't have any ball handlers or shooters. in fact, it just brought another big man in, which was already the teams strongest.

next year's class doesn't bring in anyone of the same individual caliber as jj, but it brings in a little bit of everything and arguably a lot of what we need.

1/15/2009 12:30:18 PM

Quote :

"yes, b/c jj's class didn't have any ball handlers or shooters."

So because Javi sucks now we don't include him?

1/15/2009 12:31:09 PM

is he a ball handler or shooter? no. he can't do any of those things, so i didn't include him.

next year's class, with brown alone, has those things. so until then stfu.

and if we still suck terribly next year, then i will.

1/15/2009 12:37:11 PM

Quote :

"and if we still suck terribly next year, then i will."

Then get ready, it's coming. Lorenzo Brown is going to be our savior at PG and he's not even a true point?

I think you are just setting ourselves up for disappointment if you magically think we will be better.

1/15/2009 12:39:00 PM

Quote :

"Also I don't think I've ever seen so much love for a non-top 100 recruit in Scott Wood. I know he can shot and all of this but none of you guys know that he will turn out to be a great player. "

Where have you seen "so much love". As usual, you're exaggerating, making things up, whatever. I don't think anybody has made the claim that he will be a great college player. I simply mentioned his name because he shows a lot of promise in hs and wasn't included in that list of studs that Sidney has committed.

Quote :

"Lorenzo Brown is going to be our savior at PG and he's not even a true point? "

He plays PG on his hs team (and is playing it well) and rivals lists him as the #7 pg in the nation.



[Edited on January 15, 2009 at 12:46 PM. Reason : ]

1/15/2009 12:40:37 PM

everything i've read a/b brown says he can easily play pg in college. he's no john wall but he can play.

and yea, i may be setting myself up for more disappointment and probably am, just b/c i've faced it with wolfpack sports all my life.

but before the season began, i said we would be in the NIT this year (which isss an improvement from last year ha) and in the tourney the year after that. So I'm standing by it. Everything is going as I expected really.

1/15/2009 12:42:23 PM

you guys keep sucking hickson off but don't remember how many times we turned it over before he even got a touch last year.

I'm not one that believes we are automatically gonna compete for the ACC next year, but please stop making it sound like Hickson was all everything.

He was a great player, but please remember all the times that javi, grant, or whoever else dribbled the ball of their foot on a fast break or tried to throw inside to a triple team.

The ACC is a guard oriented league. Name one team without good guards and they probably suck no matter who they have.

Lets see:

Carolina doesnt need to be discussed.
Duke has Scheyer & Nolan Smith and a serviceable backup in Paulus
Wake has great guards who FEED THE BALL to their big men and can score as well.
Boston College: Tyrese Rice who meshes well with their role players
Miami: Hurdle & McClinton
Maryland: Gravis Vasquez, who I think is highly underrated
Clemson has a combo of Stitt, Rivers, & Oglesby, all who can handle the ball

Now look at the mediocre teams in the ACC

Virginia: Last year had singletary, this year they have a freshman in landesburg, but really no other decent guards
Virginia Tech: Same problem, have one GREAT player in Vassallo
Florida State: Has Toney Douglas, who is more of a combo than a point guard, but is a senior.
Georgia Tech: Clinch & Shumpert.


Now, I know there are gonna be some who will argue that Fells is amazing..blah blah. But out of the 12 teams in the ACC, I would say our combo of Degand/Fells is by far worse than at least 8 of the 12 teams in the ACC. We may be on par with Florida St, Virginia, and Virginia Tech, none of which will be a tourney team come March.

I am not arguing that you need a Ty Lawson or Chris Paul, but if you do look at the great teams in the league, they have decent (Boston College) to good bigs (Carolina, Wake) and GREAT guard play. Its what this league has been about since its inception and will continue to be about.


I dont see how you can argue that since we had Hickson, we should have been amazing. No offense to Hickson, he was a great 1 on 1 player down low, but give me a guard like Rice or JR Reynolds or even someone like Ish Smith and we would have a MUCH better team.

It starts and ends with guard play. Our guard play/talent is more in line with the C-USA than the ACC.
Is that Sidney's fault? Of course, but he is taking steps to rectify the problem and calling for his head after 3 seasons only makes you look ignorant, imo




[Edited on January 15, 2009 at 12:55 PM. Reason : .]

1/15/2009 12:54:25 PM

Quote :

"It starts and ends with guard play."

Cannot stress that enough.

1/15/2009 1:00:30 PM

still credible today

1/15/2009 1:09:26 PM

Quote :

"Then get ready, it's coming. Lorenzo Brown is going to be our savior at PG and he's not even a true point? "

He's a combo guard who is better suited to play 2 on a team with a passable point guard. He's definitely more of a scorer than a distributor, no question. That said, he has been doing a good job playing the 1 in high school... but if you look at his numbers he reminds me an awful lot of Courtney Fells in H.S. Shockingly similar numbers across the boards (points, assists and rebounds nearly identical).

He isn't a guy I expect to come in and be able to play point at the ACC level as a freshman though, like Wall would be able to do.

Quote :

"i said we would be in the NIT this year (which isss an improvement from last year ha) and in the tourney the year after that. So I'm standing by it."

But based on what? I agree, we should win 6 or so games in the ACC with our talent, despite our start and make the NIT this year. We will beat GTech on Saturday. But I just don't see how next year is going to be an improvement UNLESS we land Wall. We simply are losing too much offense to expect freshman to be able to replace it. Look, I like Brown and Howell, but these guys aren't the one and done type or even the dominate as a freshman type like a Blake Griffin... They just aren't. I do think we can COMPETE for a NCAAT berth in 2 years should the players develop like we hope they do... and if Smith stays all 4 years (which he will).

V Fells DOES give it his all every game, he's just playing with a high ankle sprain. He just isn't an aggressive offensive player. People mistake aggressiveness for effort.

[Edited on January 15, 2009 at 1:21 PM. Reason : x]

1/15/2009 1:12:08 PM

Can we let Fells bring the ball up court on most possessions? Say what you will about Fells giving it his all every game...the guy is probably the best player we have when it comes to being able to get the ball over the timeline

1/15/2009 1:19:01 PM