yeah and he's my qb

also after i posted that...

Quote :

"2-8-DAL 37 (9:03) D.Bledsoe pass to P.Crayton for 63 yards, TOUCHDOWN."

haha

10/2/2005 6:47:08 PM

I think Tony Gonzalez is a bigger bust than Culpepper.


If you have Culpepper there are plenty of backup QB options... besides you knew his numbers were going to go down.


Show me the magaizine that didnt have Tony Gonzalez as a top 2 tight end, let alone top ten.

10/2/2005 6:55:34 PM

^
How many people wasted a first rounder on Gonzalez?

Culpepper is the biggest bust, end of discussion.

10/2/2005 7:04:04 PM

A) if you picked Culpepper round one im sorry but that was jsut you being stupid unless you are in a leauge where QB"s are ridiculously valuable.

B) Culpepper went off last week.

C) its the 4th week of the season so there is no end of discussion.


im sticking with Gonzo being a bigger bust. Jamal Lewis is a bigger bust than CUlpepper for sure also... but once again you should have seen that one coming...

10/2/2005 7:07:41 PM

A) When youre picking in the 8 spot in a 12 team league, taking a QB when the stud RBs who you know will produce are gone isnt stupid.

B) 1 week out of 4, and 3 turnovers today, yeah hes back

C) Moss was hurt last season. Didnt seem to hurt those numbers much then.

TEs arent going to make and break your team but a consistant QB who puts up 250+ along with 2-3 TDs is exponentally greater than a TE.

10/2/2005 7:34:45 PM

A guy goes from throwing 39 TD's last season to having 4 TD's after 4 games. That is a big drop off, but pre-season a LOT of analyst were selecting Culpepper to be the MVP this year.

And actually I'd place Tony as the number #3-#4 TE coming into this season. Gates and Shockey are younger and get more looks, and with the Raven's and Cowboy's O-schemes, I'd say you could argue for Heap or Witten to be up there.

I expected Tony to have a couple of TD's at this point, but I expected that Culpepper would have put up a LOT more points by this point in the year. I mean when you have leagues that take away points for INT's, he is really killing a lot of people's teams.

And who in the right mind would pick Tony over Culpepper? Culpepper is going to get a first or second round pick after the season he had last year so I'd say the biggest bust is definitely Culpepper.

I knew Jamal Lewis would get off to a slow start after being in prison as long as he was, but he showed some improvement this week and actually got a TD, so look for him to slowly come back and be better.

10/2/2005 7:38:13 PM

culpepper is def the bigger bust, he's had a negative point week in our league

as in just having him in your lineup hurts your team, you could start nobody and be better off

and he's a pretty consensus top 4 quarterback (3rd for fantasy purposes), thats a huge bust

[Edited on October 2, 2005 at 7:43 PM. Reason : .]

10/2/2005 7:40:43 PM

Quote :

"Moss was hurt last season. Didnt seem to hurt those numbers much then."

Well you must have missed the season because his numbers went WAY down when Moss was out.


Tony Gonzalez was a zero this week.

Quote :

"When youre picking in the 8 spot"

When you're picking in the 8 spot and you take Culpepper you are making a huge mistake and thats all there is to it. Culpepper went 15th in our league and even that was a few picks too early. Gonzalez's average draft position was 26th on ESPN so dont act like people were thinking Jason Witten (who's average position was probably like 80th)

10/2/2005 8:04:07 PM

1. P. Manning Team Blumpkin
2. T. Holt Black Dogs
3. L. Tomlinson Raleigh Rebels
4. S. Alexander I will own you!
5. P. Holmes Redskins Rev...
6. E. James Dawson's Creek
7. R. Moss Smoke's Dawg...
8. D. Culpepper Trouble
9. M. Harrison LA Dodgers Suck
10. W. McGahee The Plow Negros
11. A. Gates parry sucks
12. M. Vick GO BILLS!
13. D. McNabb INYOFACE
14. T. Gonzalez DRODers
15. M. Stover 49ers Rule!
16. C. Dillon Bodi has crabs

10/2/2005 8:07:17 PM

thats got to be the stupidest draft ive ever seen in my life

[Edited on October 2, 2005 at 8:11 PM. Reason : .]

10/2/2005 8:10:27 PM

^ okay first of all there are some ridiculous picks in that league

taking CUlpepper over McGahee is insanity.

Taking Gates #11 is a little nuts.

Taking Vick 12th is completely absurd.

Taking McNabb 13th is stupid.

Taking Gonzalez 14th is stupid.

Taking Stover 15th.... there are no words for that

WHy on earth did Dillon fall to 16th....


dear god i didnt even see that Holt went 2nd overall. Your league doesnt count...

[Edited on October 2, 2005 at 8:12 PM. Reason : a]

10/2/2005 8:11:46 PM

i win

10/2/2005 8:12:30 PM

haha, ya we let some idiots in

however the person who took holt 2nd is 1st


[Edited on October 2, 2005 at 8:16 PM. Reason : and p.s. mcnabb is #3 in points in our league, so thats not stupid]

10/2/2005 8:15:03 PM

what first idiot?

no that goes to the guy who took a kicker in the first round

10/2/2005 8:15:56 PM

in his defense he was autodrafted for whatever reason, but ya we made fun of him for being a retard

10/2/2005 8:16:59 PM

ANYONE who takes Tony Gonzalez, or ANY TE in the first round is a complete moron. I would NEVER consider taking Tony at the 26th position, that's just ridiculous.

7^Who would actually take Holt over LT?? LT was first in all of my drafts, no way I'd take Manning over him. And whoever picked Stover first round must really stink at Fantasy Football. I'd also have taken McNabb over Culpepper if I could choose between the 2.

Gates is a little different than Tony, you can look at Gates as a WR as many touches as he gets, but even at that he is a number 3 option on that team after McCardell and LT.

Tony isn't a bust, if you didn't know coming into this season that KC would be a running team, you haven't been watching them lately. They have 2 solid RB's, good OL, and a weak stable of recievers. Talent wise Gonzo is probably the best TE in the league, but you can't just base it on talent, you have to look at the offensive scheme as well. And coming in I thought Witten and Heap had a chance to both have solid seasons again, but Bledsoe has come out throwing and Witten isn't getting as many looks as I expected. But yeah I'd have chosen Shockey or Gates over Tony, if Shockey can stay healthy he'll but awesome numbers this season.

[Edited on October 2, 2005 at 8:18 PM. Reason : ^]

10/2/2005 8:17:08 PM

pretty sure gates comes before mccardell

especially in the red zone

10/2/2005 8:19:14 PM

^Yeah but LT comes first and gets the looks in the redzone. And no way does Gates come before McCardell, compare there stats, McCardell has more yards, receptions, and TD's.

[Edited on October 2, 2005 at 8:26 PM. Reason : .]

10/2/2005 8:26:16 PM

i mean so far this year

look at last year...the way things SHOULD be this year

Quote :

"Receiving Stats Player No Yds Avg Long TD Antonio Gates 81 964 11.9 72 13 Eric Parker 47 690 14.7 79 4 LaDainian Tomlinson 53 441 8.3 74 1 Keenan McCardell 31 393 12.7 31 1 "

10/2/2005 8:39:08 PM

Yeah I drafted Gonzo in the 5th or 6th round. I thought I had a steal

But I made up for it by drafting Mike Anderson and Steve Smith in the last few rounds.


Favre and Burleson have also been busts for me so far. I should have picked up Eli

[Edited on October 2, 2005 at 8:45 PM. Reason : !]

10/2/2005 8:44:30 PM

Gonzo isn't a bust?

Are you kidding me?


Gonzalez has been a pillar of consistency. He has nearly a decade of straight seasons with ~1,000 yards and ~8 TD's. He was TWELVE HUNDRED and 58 yards last year....

This year he's on pace for like 350 yards... give me a break.


KC is a running team???? Trent Green threw for 4,500 yards last season. EXCUSE ME for thinking he might throw for at least half that this season...

10/2/2005 9:52:19 PM

priest holmes + larry johnson clearly shows that they want to focus more on the running attack

if they thought that trent green was their franchise player they would have even better wr's around him

by drafting johnson, it was clear what the focus was...

10/2/2005 11:49:31 PM

eh you guys are talking crazy talk.


THey drafted Johnson THREE years ago and they did that because they thought Priest Holmes might be done after his hip exploded.

Trent Green has thrown for over 4,000 yards the past two years.

I'm not saying I didn't think they'd run the ball, but to act like you didn't think Tony Gonzalez would be among the league leaders at tight end is a lie...

[Edited on October 3, 2005 at 12:09 AM. Reason : a]

10/3/2005 12:08:58 AM

^^Exactly

I mean your best WR is who, Sammy Parker? Give me a break, no way they're a passing team but you're right, I did expect Green to pass more than he has but he hasn't had to and he's looked horrible as of late passing.
I knew Gonzalez wouldn't have the same numbers as last year, but I DID think he'd have a TD or two by now and more yards. But if you asked me the top 2 TE's at this point I'd have definitely told you Shockey and Gates without a doubt.

^And yeah I'd have ranked Tony in the top 3-4, but not top 2.

[Edited on October 3, 2005 at 12:12 AM. Reason : .]

10/3/2005 12:11:39 AM

Quote :

"your best receiver is who"

Um Eddie kennison, Tony Gonzalez, Priest Holmes???

We're all clear on the fact that Kansas City was ranked 4th in passing in 2004 and 2nd in 2003, right?

I jsut wanted to make sure we were talking about the same thing...


We're also aware that TOny Gonzalez had the SEVENTH most receiving yards last year of any player. Only Muhammad, Horn, Walker, Holt, Bruce, and Chad Johnson had more.

If you're not familiar with them those are some of the better receivers in the league.


Shockey barely even had half the yards (666) Tony G had last year...


Obviously, Trent Green being injured has affected Gonzalez a lot, but no one saw this coming...

10/3/2005 12:39:13 AM

^Oh yeah, apparently you didn't take into account that Shockey had 600+ yards with a rookie QB who you had to know would get better.

And apparently I did know that Tony wasn't going to have that big of a season since I selected Shockey over Gonzalez and I would have gotten Gates over him but he was gone.

If you wasted anything above a 3rd round pick on Tony, then that's not a bust, that's just poor selection on your part unless you're in a league of about 20 people.

Let's look at the stats...
Gonzalez had 1258 yards last season on 102 receptions with 7 TD's.
Antonio Gates had 964 yards last season on 81 receptions with 13 TD's and he didn't play one game.
Jeremy Shockey had 666 yards last season on 61 receptions with 6 TD's.

Now, Gonzalez has the most yards by far, but he has almost twice as many yards as Shockey and one more TD. And he has almost 300 more yards than Gates and almost half as many TD's. Gates played in 15 games and had 13 TD's, he almost averaged 1 TD a game.

Now, I don't know what league you're in, but in most of the leagues I play in, a TD is worth a lot more than yards(some leagues are 20 yards per point, some are 25, just depends).

So in my league last season(20 yards per point, 6 points per TD)...
Tony had a year total of 108 points.
Gates had a year total of 126 points(one less game).
Shockey had a year total of 51 points.

Gates is by far the best pick, and I knew that with Shockey finally healthy and Eli coming into his own, they'd have a really good year. Plus the youth and speed of Shockey and Gates compared to Gonzalez made me shy away from Tony.

Now I think everyone is getting worked up over nothing, Green is hurt and not playing well which is effecting the passing game like you said, and Tony's numbers will increase whenever Green gets his stuff together. But yeah Gates SHOULD have been the first TE selected in your draft.

Tony is playing like he always does, but Green is playing terrible and bringing his numbers down. Where as Daunte has only himself to blame, he isn't hurt and he is just making poor decisions and throws.

10/3/2005 1:02:55 AM

pwnt

10/3/2005 3:21:56 AM

I picked Gonzalez in the 4th round.


ANd my league is 10 yards per point, 6 points for a TD. So GOnzalez actually outscored Gates last year in my league. And Gates only gets to play in 15 games this year so no need to adjust for the per game average.


Pwnt nothing, Gonzalez is still the bigger bust. Daunte has posted great stats one week, decent stats once, bad stats once, and horrible stats once.

Gonzalez has four worthless games.


ANd when you figure in the fact that Shockey ALWAYS gets hurt you might not love that pick by the end of the season...

10/3/2005 9:36:39 AM

That's why I said it just depends on the league you're in.

But when it comes to winning or losing, your QB is always a more important player. QB's average 15-25 points a week, top of the line TE averages 8-10 points. A TE will NOT make or break your team, but if your QB is getting NEGATIVE points and less than 10, you will be in some serious trouble week in and week out.

Culpepper was picked to be the NFL MVP pre-season by a lot of publications, and I bet he was picked in most first rounds of big leagues. If you had Culpepper at the beginning of last year then you know what I'm talking about, averaging over 30 points in quite a few of his first game.

People went in thinking Culpepper would net them a little over 25 points a game(roughly McNabb's numbers)
People went in thinking Tony would be netting over 8 points a game.

Both are busts, but point wise, Culpepper is much more of a drop-off from last year.

10/3/2005 9:51:55 AM

running in circles here

[Edited on October 3, 2005 at 9:58 AM. Reason : duh, some people are just stubborn]

10/3/2005 9:56:31 AM

I have Bledsoe, Brees, Culpepper, and Palmer as my QB's


should i trade any of them (except for Palmer) for Eli Manning?

10/3/2005 10:54:57 AM

BTTT I NEED AN ANSWER BEFORE SOMEONE ELSE PICKS HIM UP DAMN IT!!!!


im seriously thinkin about dropping Culpepper

any help would be appreciated

10/3/2005 11:39:08 AM

get rid of culpepper, you dont need him, you have a good stable

why do you have 4 qb's anyway?

10/3/2005 11:44:32 AM

cus we only have 5 people playing in our league

10/3/2005 11:45:17 AM

well damn

we got people starting shared time backs in my 16 person league, stark contrast

10/3/2005 11:46:34 AM

haha

10/3/2005 11:50:20 AM

Quote :

"But when it comes to winning or losing, your QB is always a more important player."

You really need to take an economics class.


Clearly the concept of opportunity cost eludes you.


If you take the #2 TE and compare him to the #10 TE you will see that the difference is essentially the same as the difference between the #2 QB and the #10 QB.


Now you have some other factors that are key in fantasy football. You can manipulate the system by using rotating QB's. In other words if you have the 10th and 11th best QB in fantasy, you can start them the weeks they play weaker defenses and actually have the ~5th or 6th most production out of the QB position. Try playing rotating Tight End with the 10th and 11th best TE's and its unlikely to produce the same results...



Continuing on with the Daunte vs Tony Gonzalez argument...

A ton of other highly rated QB's are also doing poorly. Peyton's stats have been off, Trent Greens have been anemic, Favre bad, Vick bad, Bulger eh, Hasslebeck eh, Brady eh.... so in reality Daunte's relative value is not nearly as low as you might think at first glance.

On the other hand there are several tight ends that are absolutely blowing up (LJ Smith, Gates, Shockey, McMicheal) so it makes Tony Gonzalez's relative struggles even more significant.





[Edited on October 3, 2005 at 12:51 PM. Reason : a]

10/3/2005 12:47:42 PM

that has nothing to do with the fact that culpepper is way more of a valuable fantasy player than gonzalez


and he's having way worse of a season

so he is the biggest bust

you dont need economics you need basic math

i mean really dude, you're just argueing because youre bored right, you dont actually believe that do you?

we're not looking at rotating anything with anyone, its individually who's been the biggest bust

typical scoring for most league's 20 yds. rec.=1 pt.; 50 yds. passing=1pt.;1 td rec or passing=6

last year tony gonzalez averaged 6.57 pts. per game, this year he is averaging 1.61

thats a dropoff of 4.96

last year culpepper averaged 21.04 points per game, this year he is averaging 7.52

thats a dropoff of 13.52

simple question with a simple answer


[Edited on October 3, 2005 at 1:02 PM. Reason : .]

10/3/2005 12:52:41 PM

^ well your rules are little off.


Expert leagues never make passing TD's worth 6 points they are worth either 3 or 4.

10 yards per point is pretty common also.


If you play by whack rules then i guess anyone can be the biggest bust...

10/3/2005 1:05:49 PM

thats how ive played for 4 years now

its more realistic, in a real game you can gain all the yards you want but what matters is putting points on the board

so the way i see it is you play by whack rules

but thats another discussion

10/3/2005 1:08:24 PM

i just go by yahoo standard shit

10/3/2005 1:09:04 PM

Some people prefer to play in leagues where the settings are more performance based (yards) and others in ones where its more scoring (TDs) based.

Thats fine either way...


But making TD passes worth 6 points is whack. That's how fantasy football was played in the 80's, but by the mid 90's teh standard was shifted down to 3-4 points when people realized 6 pts was stupid for a passing TD.

[Edited on October 3, 2005 at 1:12 PM. Reason : a]

10/3/2005 1:12:04 PM

the quarterback is the most important person on the team, why shouldnt it be that way in ff?

[Edited on October 3, 2005 at 1:16 PM. Reason : .]

10/3/2005 1:12:59 PM

QB is still important if you make it worth 3-4 pts per TD.

Its disproportionately important if you make it worth 6 pts per TD.

It's just dumb to have a guy throwing for 49 TD's making a team unbeatable.

Marino was the one responsible for causing the shift. No one wanted to play anymore because whoever got Marino had an unfair advantage.

10/3/2005 1:17:32 PM

the ultimate fantasy scoring system (mine) should be as close to reality as possible... meaning, what is important in the regular game should be at relatively the same scale or worth in the fantasy league. I HATE it when scoring systems raise the point value for some really odd category to make it worth the same as a regularly occuring category. For example "hey, blocked kicks hardly ever happen, lets make them worth 10 points" You cant tell me that a blocked kick is worth more in actual football than a TD, its not, at all. There is no reason a passing TD should be less than a rushing TD, they are both worth 6 points in real football, there is no difference. And yes, I realize that QBs throw more TDs than RBs run TDs and thus would get more points, BUT, thats why you only have ONE starting QB, and typically 2 starting RBs. Also, you should have it set up where QB's passing accuracy comes into account, which could lower thier score, and also take points away from QBs for sacks, which would also lower them.

10/3/2005 1:18:37 PM

yes the team last year with manning was very hard to beat, just like the real life team

but thats the point

the team that had manning in our league last year made it to the playoffs but didnt win it all

you're not unbeatable, like jaybee said qb>rbs>wrs points-wise just like in real life

but thats why we play 1 qb, 2 rbs and 3 wrs

10/3/2005 1:25:27 PM

if you league takes points away for sacks, I would trade Bledsoe for Eli

if not, Brees for Eli

10/3/2005 1:25:55 PM

brees is doin good, good year last season and lookin about on that same track now

why on earth would you keep culpepper with all the questions surrounding him

10/3/2005 1:27:29 PM

see this is the contraversy that im stuck with

10/3/2005 1:30:57 PM

^^^^ exactly

[Edited on October 3, 2005 at 1:31 PM. Reason : f]

10/3/2005 1:31:05 PM