Quote :

"Your point about the converse is irrelevant. South Dakota has banned abortions in cases where the "health of the mother" is threatened; but not in cases where her life is threatened. If her life is threatened, how is her health not threatened?"

Let me try again.

A implies B is not logically equivalent to B implies A.

If her health is threatened that does not imply her life is threatened.
If her life is threatened that does imply her health is threatened.

If the law says that abortions are only allowed in the case that the life of the mother is endangered then that does not mean that because the health of the mom is endangered it's not allowed. The health being endangered is a necessary, but not a sufficient condition. The life being endangered is a sufficient condition for the abortion to be legal.

3/12/2006 8:39:43 PM

http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=4611144

Quote :

"La. lawmaker's anti-abortion bill less strict that S. Dakota's BATON ROUGE, La. -- Inspired by recent changes on the U.S. Supreme Court, a Republican lawmaker has filed legislation that would make abortion illegal except to save the mother's life or in rape and incest cases. Rep. Tim Burns said President Bush's two appointments to the Supreme Court convinced him that now is an opportune time to pass legislation toughening Louisiana's abortion laws and give the high court a chance to overturn or challenge parts of Roe v. Wade, the 1973 ruling establishing a right to an abortion. Burns' measure, which will be debated in a legislative session that begins March 27, is less strict than a South Dakota law recently passed that would only allow abortion to save the mother's life _ no exceptions for rape or incest cases. Abortion would be allowed under Burns' bill when the mother's life is in danger and in rape and incest cases within 13 weeks of conception. Doctors found guilty of performing abortions in other situations would face up to 10 years in prison and fines of $100,000. Continued at link..."

3/12/2006 10:00:01 PM

yea, but since all cases where women drink is rape, thats like 80% of all pregnancies

[Edited on March 13, 2006 at 12:14 AM. Reason : -]

3/13/2006 12:14:21 AM

It's as if you're not reading the words I've been typing all along.

I UNDERSTAND THAT THE LIFE OF THE MOTHER IS A HEALTH EXCEPTION YOU FUCKING IDIOT.

THIS IS NOT A CONVERSE ERROR YOU SYLLOGISTIC FUCKWAD.

The fact is that South Dakota explicitly banned abortions where the "health of the mother" is involved, AND YET allows for abortions when the "life of the mother" is threatened. My question is, and has ALWAYS been, how is it that the "life of the mother" is not also banned, since it it OBVIOUSLY a health exception (and therefore not permitted by state law)?

The state law includes a converse error. My question does not.

[Edited on March 13, 2006 at 12:48 AM. Reason : ...]

3/13/2006 12:47:42 AM

I think it is your understanding of the state law which includes a converse error. The law is pretty clear, abortions are only legal when they are the last resort, in short what it says is that everything possible should be done to keep both the baby and the mother alive. Only in the extreme circumstance that the mother's life is in danger ( and yes also her health, DUH.) does this law say that the abortion is ok.

Don't believe me, try reading the law. This is the most relevant portion to your misunderstanding.

Quote :

" Section 6. That chapter 22-17 be amended by adding thereto a NEW SECTION to read as follows: No person may knowingly administer to, prescribe for, or procure for, or sell to any pregnant woman any medicine, drug, or other substance with the specific intent of causing or abetting the termination of the life of an unborn human being unless it is necessary to preserve the life of the pregnant woman, or if there is a serious risk of substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant woman. No person may knowingly use or employ any instrument or procedure upon a pregnant woman with the specific intent of causing or abetting the termination of the life of an unborn human being unless it is necessary to preserve the life of the pregnant woman, or if there is a serious risk of substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant woman. Any violation of this section is a Class 5 felony. Section 7. That chapter 22-17 be amended by adding thereto a NEW SECTION to read as follows: Nothing in section 6 of this Act may be construed to prohibit the sale, use, prescription, or administration of a contraceptive measure, drug or chemical, if it is administered prior to the time when a pregnancy could be determined through conventional medical testing and if the contraceptive measure is sold, used, prescribed, or administered in accordance with manufacturer instructions. Section 8. That chapter 22-17 be amended by adding thereto a NEW SECTION to read as follows: No licensed physician who performs a medical procedure designed or intended to prevent the death of a pregnant mother or a serious risk of substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant woman is guilty of violating section 6 of this Act. However, the physician shall make reasonable medical efforts under the circumstances to preserve both the life of the mother and the life of her unborn child in a manner consistent with conventional medical practice. Medical treatment provided to the mother by a licensed physician which results in the accidental or unintentional injury or death of the unborn child is not a violation of this statute. Nothing in this Act may be construed to subject the pregnant mother upon whom any abortion is performed or attempted to any criminal conviction and penalty. "

3/13/2006 1:15:42 AM

Has that been amended recently? As in, since Feb. 23?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/22/AR2006022202424.html

Quote :

""The momentum for a change in the national policy on abortion is going to come in the not-too-distant future," said Rep. Roger W. Hunt, a Republican who sponsored the bill. To his delight, abortion opponents succeeded in defeating all amendments designed to mitigate the ban, including exceptions in the case of rape or incest or the health of the woman. Hunt said that such "special circumstances" would have diluted the bill and its impact on the national scene."

3/13/2006 1:26:31 AM

I'm not sure, I just found that after about a two-minute google search. Somebody on here ought to know.

[Edited on March 13, 2006 at 7:59 PM. Reason : e]

3/13/2006 7:59:25 PM

They've challenged it, as expected:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4842956.stm

Quote :

"A US pro-choice group has launched a petition drive to overturn a South Dakota ban on nearly all abortions. The South Dakota Campaign for Healthy Families aims to collect 16,728 signatures needed to put the ban on hold and put it to a public vote. The law bans all abortions except to save a woman's life, but not in cases of rape or incest. Its supporters hope it could help challenge the 1973 US Supreme Court decision that legalised abortions. Many believe two recent conservative appointments to the Supreme Court may have tipped the balance in favour of anti-abortionists. The supporters of the South Dakota law say they want to trigger a battle over the 1973 Roe-versus-Wade ruling, in which the US Supreme Court established that governments lacked the power to prohibit abortions. ... The South Dakota Campaign for Healthy Families filed papers with the state to start its petition drive. continued at link..."

3/24/2006 5:15:35 PM

south dakota has 6 states around it. take your pick baby killers. doesn't mean anything unless its done on a national level.

3/25/2006 1:22:13 AM

Quote :

"the best time to get pregnant is when you're a black teenager."

-Sara Silverman

3/25/2006 1:56:18 PM

Quote :

" Oglala Sioux Tribe President Cecelia Fire Thunder says a clinic on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation could provide abortions if South Dakota’s new abortion ban goes into effect. “We’re working on it,” Fire Thunder said in a telephone interview Friday. “This is a free-choice issue. If I were in that situation, I’d want somewhere to go where I’d be taken care of.” The new South Dakota law bans all abortions except to save the life of the mother — with no exceptions for rape or incest. Fire Thunder said the state law would not apply to the reservation. “We’re a sovereign nation,” she said."

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EAVESDROPPING?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=HOME

3/26/2006 1:39:46 AM

SWEET

ABORTION CASINOS!!!!!!!!!!11

3/26/2006 11:31:48 PM

I'd love to write a news story where I could quote someone with a name like Fire Thunder.

3/26/2006 11:33:31 PM

I was going to get an abortion the other day. I totally wanted an abortion. And it turns out I was just thirsty.

3/27/2006 1:09:36 AM