Quote :

"Most of the time, it's not a choice. Did you 'choose' to be attracted to women?"

No. Because men are naturally attracted to women. And vice versa. I just have a hard time believing people are born gay. IT'S NOT NATURAL. Sure, go talk about the frog that switches gengers,whatever. But if humans were meant to be gay then gay human couples would have a way to reproduce. Darwinism rules out being gay as a natural phenomena.


p7 like woah!

[Edited on October 27, 2006 at 1:18 AM. Reason : p7]

10/27/2006 1:17:47 AM

yes

every sex act is an attempt to reproduce

10/27/2006 1:33:16 AM

masturbation and oral sex are natural

10/27/2006 2:21:26 AM

if its a choice why would anyone chose to be gay? thats retarded, there are gay animals all throughout nature

10/27/2006 7:30:40 AM

Quote :

"show me how exactly the womens center or african american student union have hurt those groups on campus "

I think the burden of proof for whether or not we should fund something like this would be that it was beneficial, not that it didn't hurt those groups.

Also, I know you'll just make fun of it because I'm male and white, but those centers DID hurt me. More than 10 times I felt excluded or unwelcomed because of my race, ethnicity, or gender on NC State's campus. I think it is wrong to divide us based on race, and, for instance, even though I can join the groups devised especially for women or blacks, they surely aren't welcoming by title.

I used the world build before, and I apologize. They're getting an office in Talley. But that doesn't mean that some of the money coming from fees is any better. The state of North Carolina, and North Carolina State University should not use its funds on groups that divide us in some way by race, sexual preference, or gender. It isn't right, and public funds should not be used to do so.

10/27/2006 7:47:30 AM

nevermind. bad analogy.

[Edited on October 27, 2006 at 7:51 AM. Reason : asdf]

10/27/2006 7:51:08 AM

Quote :

"NC State is NOT lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered friendly"

As a general question, what makes a place lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered friendly?

10/27/2006 8:12:53 AM

They have a center.

10/27/2006 8:32:13 AM

Quote :

"if its a choice why would anyone chose to be gay? "

I didn't say people chose to be gay either. I think it's more of a psychological condition or something, I dunno. Seriously though... how do you pass gay genes around when gays can't reproduce???

10/27/2006 8:52:34 AM

Look what I was saying is that its a choice to be gay. If it is not then stop hatting on people who want to sleep with little kids. Accept them for who they are, because they were born that way. I don't think a scientific study has proven the fact that you are born gay yet. Until i see one i will go with its a choice. I know several gay people and they don't say that they were born that way. So the campus might not be friendly to LBGT students sorry. Life isn't always easy for everyone. I can think of many times when being a agriculture student was not popular and everyone call's us MOO university. I believe that we should have an agricultural center for students in CALS. I mean our college was founded because of us there for we should have our own student center right?
Not each group needs its own center. If you want one do what the church organizations have done buy land off campus and build a center yourself.

[Edited on October 27, 2006 at 9:40 AM. Reason : lala]

10/27/2006 9:15:39 AM

^That was painful to read and you're on my side of the argument...kinda

I guess what you CALS students need is a "Making Sense With a Keyboard" Center

10/27/2006 9:26:08 AM

^^ ouch typo sorry the Keyboard God didn't correct my mistake. Either way just get back to the topic. LGBT Center is bad for the university. Discuss

10/27/2006 9:41:52 AM

Trust me, it wasn't the typo that was killing me.

10/27/2006 10:23:44 AM

^^ oh well sorry, your having personal issues then.

10/27/2006 10:26:03 AM

^^what do you mean by personal issues?

10/27/2006 10:32:25 AM

Quote :

"bgmims: I think the burden of proof for whether or not we should fund something like this would be that it was beneficial, not that it didn't hurt those groups."

I'll look for that proof even though it wouldn't sway your opinion anyway. But in the meantime...

Quote :

"bgmims: Of course, most Christians that use this are really just using it because they hate gays personally, but it doesn't mean it should be illegal to think that or that we need student fees trying to erode their religious beliefs."

The burden of proof is on you. This center is going to erode Christians' religious beliefs? Are you joking?

10/27/2006 10:40:59 AM

I think that was the goal you set for the center.

But I may just be misunderstanding:

Quote :

"BridgetSPK:If people are still walking around campus, thinking homosexuality is "wrong," we need a fucking center and then some. "

10/27/2006 10:46:27 AM

^I was trolling Smath. It didn't work. Instead everybody else called me out.

10/27/2006 10:59:19 AM

So you think it is ok for people to find homosexuality "wrong" and you aren't out to change that?

You just want to stop the harassment and the attacks? If that is true, than I commend you, I just think that this office will not accomplish those aims and is further an illegitimate use of student resources.

10/27/2006 11:02:56 AM

Quote :

"As a general question, what makes a place lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered friendly?"

there isn't a 7 page thread whining about some gay people getting an office in talley.

10/27/2006 12:56:57 PM

Quote :

"how do you pass gay genes around when gays can't reproduce???"

Well, 'can't' would be the wrong term here. There are a good number of people who are gay, but had kids for many reasons. They could've been simply hiding their attractions in order to fit in, which was the case for almost everyone for a long time in the US. Also, there are a decent amount of bisexuals around as well.

Here is a quote from a 60 minutes piece called "The Science of Sexual Orientation."

Quote :

"While biologists look at hormones for answers about human sexuality, other scientists are looking for patterns in statistics. And hard as this is to believe, they have found something they call "the older brother effect." "The more older brothers a man has, the greater that man's chance of being gay," says Bailey. Asked if that's true, Bailey says, "That is absolutely true." If this comes as a shock to you, you’re not alone. But it turns out, it’s one of the most solid findings in this field, demonstrated in study after study. --http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/09/60minutes/main1385230.shtml"

Now, I know that 60 Minutes is not a definitive source by any means, but it does show that there are many different theories about homosexuality and that we're not sure of why yet.

Also, the "men are naturally attracted to women" doesn't really explain anything either. In 90% of the cases across nature (humans and other animals have about the same incidence of homosexuality) it is the norm, but not always.

It sure does make things a lot easier though.

[Edited on October 27, 2006 at 2:00 PM. Reason : ytpo]

10/27/2006 2:00:03 PM

Quote :

"there isn't a 7 page thread whining about some gay people getting an office in talley."

I think most of us are whining about PAYING for an office in talley, not its mere existence. If they had bought it from private funding and built it off campus, I would not have a damn thing to say about this.

Hell, I don't even mind some of my fees going to community awareness about the plight of homosexuals (like our Everyone Welcome Week) but a center for this is not a responsible use of fees.

But thanks for playing the straw man game, you were pretty good at it.

10/27/2006 2:21:39 PM

i dont know you, but you seem to genuinely be concerned about where your fees are going, i'll give you that.

but you have to be able to admit that a large portion of people who oppose this are using concern over fees as a facade, and a pretty transparent one, for their real issue with the center which is just "OMG TEH GAYS!!!"

[Edited on October 27, 2006 at 3:38 PM. Reason : .]

10/27/2006 3:37:09 PM

Quote :

"there isn't a 7 page thread whining about some gay people getting an office in talley."

Thank you for your insightful and informative answer.

10/27/2006 3:38:30 PM

so you cant decipher for yourself what types of things would make a campus friendly for a group of people? you could probably come up with a few answers yourself.

or you could ask the Princeton Review i guess

10/27/2006 3:42:23 PM

Quote :

"a large portion"

I don't know if I would say a large portion. It may actually be a large portion, that's hard to tell. But at any rate, I will absolutely 100% grant you that some portion of the people on here are upset at the fact that it is for gays and care nothing about the fees. They are intolerant and are bastards. They tend to be the same people who are racist as well, IMO. They're the same people who stand behind people like me when we decry Affirmative Action and claim to care about the economics behind it when they really just want the ability to not hire black people.

It is sad that my side of the table is filled with that and I am saddened that people tend to obfuscate those kinds of idiots with people like me who are not racist, sexist, anti-gay, (couldn't find a good -ist to go with that...preferencist? lol) etc. and who generally are just concerned with correct usage of public funds and treating people equally.

I wish there were a way to correct it, but unfortunately I don't think the offices in Talley is the way to do it. IMO, it will incite more of this hatrid than it will erase.

10/27/2006 3:44:32 PM

good post. i do disagree with this, though:

Quote :

"IMO, it will incite more of this hatred than it will erase."

we all know how capricious college age kids are. i think if the center is put together, people will soon realize that this in no way affects their lives, other than slightly monetarily, and will all together forget about the entire thing

10/27/2006 3:51:02 PM

Quote :

"So you think it is ok for people to find homosexuality "wrong" and you aren't out to change that?"

the goal of the center is to promote tolerance and awareness, something that even people who think that homosexuality is "wrong" are capable of but to often lack. i mean i think its pretty clearly a sin and im in favor of this center. homosexuals are openly persecuted by a significant portion of the campus population and its because of my christian ideals that i find this persecution atrocious and disgusting. some people are going to have issues with this center at first (even integration wasnt popular at first) but the good that this center will do over time greatly outweighs the complaints that will die away as those complaining realize this center hasnt hurt them and forget about it.

and saying that the name "hurts" you because it sounds exclusive is retarded, try actually being excluded... try being persecuted and ridiculed then lets see how that hurt compares

10/27/2006 3:58:36 PM

While I agree with you on most of that stuff Guth, there are a few things I'd take issue with. I don't disagree that homosexuals need more acceptance and programs that would foster that are worthwhile. I simple disagree that it should be funded with student fees. That's a fair disagreement, and I can see no one can "win" that argument because it is a difference of opinion (unless we could get a guidebook that tells us what the fees should be spent for--a good idea IMO).

As to my being unwelcome being retarded, I agree that it isn't the same magnitude of some discrimination faced by others, I don't think that its necessarily okay because it is less severe. I would wager that a "Straight Folks Alliance" center would be counted in the type of hostility and discrimination you're here to decry. To me, just because the table is turned doesn't change that one group is purposely holding itself out only to one segment of students based on sexual orientation.

Quote :

"try actually being excluded... try being persecuted and ridiculed then lets see how that hurt compares"

I would be willing to bet there are certain groups and frats that would ridicule me if I attempted to join up. I don't want to say they would persecute me, because that's a fairly strong word, but I guarantee there are places that wouldn't take kindly to me.

10/27/2006 4:16:43 PM

^places, not a huge chunk of students in many different settings

Quote :

"I would wager that a "Straight Folks Alliance" center would be counted in the type of hostility and discrimination you're here to decry."

well what exactly would that organization do? let everyone know that everything is still ok for normal people? that wouldnt raise any hostility. but the context that you mention it, a center that would exist only because those fags got their center, probably would rightfully cause some hostility

[Edited on October 27, 2006 at 4:38 PM. Reason : V i misunderstood the intentions of that point, edited out]

10/27/2006 4:24:43 PM

I guess "isn't the same magnitude" wasn't strong enough for you. Doesn't mean I am unaware of the problem.

10/27/2006 4:30:49 PM

"i like gays and all, i just dont want my fees to go to an LGBT center"

WELL GUESS WHAT... when you chose to come to a PUBLIC UNIVERSITY you CHOSE to pay for diversity whether you like it or not. Another thing, THERE IS NO INCREASE OF STUDENT FEES, AND A NEW BUILDING WILL NOT BE BUILT. At least know what you are opposing. If you are going to oppose a few rooms of a building and a drop in the barrel of student fees, then maybe you need to ask yourself why you care so much to try and deny a resource to someone on campus. The world doesnt revolve around YOU or your beliefs and neither does this university, so stop paying your tuition and drop out of school, or GET OVER IT.

PS . for all of you complaining i bet you couldn't name 5 other groups your student fees go to, and that's because you don't care at all, unless you disagree with the lifestyle so dont mask it by saying 'you dont agree with paying for it'

10/27/2006 4:35:41 PM

That's cute. I love the outrage. But seriously, I graduated already and I don't live in the state anymore, so none of my money is actually going to this. That doesn't mean I can't argue against it based on principle. We go(went) to a public university and we pay for diversity? I mean, I'm all for diversity, but that is NOT what a public university is meant to accomplish. Its a wonderful side benefit of it.

I surely can name 5 other groups that get student fees. Among them was The Student Investment Club, which I helped found. I applied to $200 and I got it. It really helped make a difference for our club. Of course, $200 is a drop in the bucket of student fees. 1000% more than that is what is being used for these offices.

It was clearly established pages ago that no building is being built for this. They are running an office out of Talley. We all know that, and welcome to today.

It still doesn't change the fact that many of us don't think public funds should be used for purposes that we feel will compartmentalize students based on gender, ethnicity, or sexual preference. I just don't feel it is right and I would say the same damn thing if it was for a group that I belonged to. My comments earlier in this thread about an Italian German Irish Mut Center or some shit like that were purely facetious. If that center was offered, I would oppose it as well.

10/27/2006 4:41:36 PM

african americans have their own half of a building

10/27/2006 4:45:37 PM

Diversity is desirable in and of itself. People who are opposed to (paying for, nice argument but no change will be made in tuition, and the money would probably go to some other group that only a 'minority' of students participate in) the center need to realize that diversity is part of a larger education, one that might help them once they get out of the backwards bubble of NCSU.

How nice that 'many of you' don't think public funds should be used for purposes that you feel will compartmentalize students, etc... but what is wrong with students with common interests and agenda being able to have a group to further that interests? believe me, it's not the first time it's happened

i also find it interesting that no debate has ever been brought up so strongly about the use of student fees, and i doubt anyone opposing it has made any attempt to run for office or use any legitimate outlets of disagreement

i more than anyone else, being a heterosexual, upper-middle class white girl should fit into the stereotype of people who 'disagree' but i guess i'm just lucky enough to have a heart and not try to oppose people seeking comfort and acceptance on campus.

10/27/2006 4:51:06 PM

Quote :

"african americans have their own half of a building"

And I find that a waste of our fees as well

You as a middle-class white girl should oppose this, but don't because you have a heart? Well besides being extremely arrogant with that statement, it is the lack of fiscal responsibility, not simply your heart that makes you love this use of our fees. If its such a great use of money, why not donate? I mean, you should be able to spare a few bucks for this purpose and so should all like-minded people. Why should you compel me to do so? Especially since it is a funding that IMO is a fundamental misuse of student fees in the first place.

A common interest is a legitimate reason for a club/group. A common race, gender, or sexual orientation can be as well, but I don't think our student fees should go to that kind of thing.

__
And of course I don't feel that homosexuality is wrong in the same way as pedophilia, but I wonder if you're down with opening a NAMBLA office in Talley too. I mean, in light of you being:

Quote :

"lucky enough to have a heart and not try to oppose people seeking comfort and acceptance on campus."

[Edited on October 27, 2006 at 5:10 PM. Reason : .,]

10/27/2006 5:09:11 PM

well considering you don't even to go NCSU i find it amusing that you are so concerned about the issue at all. Your opinion doesnt matter, nor should you have a say, in anything that goes on at campus anymore. When student fees go to a million different things you probably aren't going to agree with all of them, but it's a good thing you're not the grand authority on anything of importance. i'm glad you are trying to justify yourself by disagreeing with funding for 'all minority group' funding based on race or ethnicity but maybe you need to wake up and realize that racism and hatred exist and if they need a small amount of funding to start a group, it is legitimate.

10/27/2006 5:22:32 PM

[quote]but I wonder if you're down with opening a NAMBLA office in Talley too[/qote]

and let the logical fallacies begin (well continue but at a more ridiculous degree)

[Edited on October 27, 2006 at 5:23 PM. Reason : .]

10/27/2006 5:23:02 PM

silly faggots, dicks are for chicks

10/27/2006 6:38:38 PM

your regurgitated play on words of a children's cereal cartoon bunny that you posted on the internet will show those gays. gg dude!

10/27/2006 6:56:28 PM

Quote :

"You as a middle-class white girl should oppose this, but don't because you have a heart? Well besides being extremely arrogant with that statement, it is the lack of fiscal responsibility, not simply your heart that makes you love this use of our fees."

Bullshit. $200,000 is a drop in the fucking bucket, and you know it.

But let me guess...every little bit counts, huh?

But, seriously, why don't we get rid of athletics? Many students don't care at all. Most students just use them as an excuse to get drunk. And, come on, we've got pro teams in NC now. Why should we waste money, compartmentalizing all the sports fans when they can just watch the Canes, Bobcats, and Panthers? (Logical fallacy met with logical fallacy. )

[Edited on October 27, 2006 at 7:06 PM. Reason : sss]

10/27/2006 7:05:22 PM

These people have been put down for most of their life and even killed for being who they are. They've been in hiding and finally, just finally, theres a haven for them but people will still oppose what they dont understand, and ultimately coupled with not understanding is fear. Fear for their children, fear of being hit on, fear of simply not knowing. Ive got news for these people, theres nothing to fear because they are people too. Its basic ignorance that keeps people from not understanding and from not finding out who these people are. Gay people have existed in the history books for centuries. Its the fear of being found out that has not unveiled the issue further back in time. However, the opportunity has come to rectify any wrongdoings, or at least promote awareness, and a center is erected, yet its still this is asking for too much? If it is too much all i can say is welcome to the fucking stone age, these people never change. If people's morals and values are held to a book of supposed stories, unproven at that, then i hold them to unlogical standards and practices because they dont challenge what is on paper, essentially what is put into their willing minds. These gay people exist, and like it or not, its undeniable. People can either live with it or live in denial.

10/27/2006 7:10:41 PM

Quote :

"Why should we waste money, compartmentalizing all the sports fans when they can just watch the Canes, Bobcats, and Panthers? (Logical fallacy met with logical fallacy. )"

Last I checked the big three sports pay for the others. Am I wrong?

Also, I'm well aware that gay people exist and I think they have every right to do so. I think they ought to be able to marry, adopt children, and do whatever it is that straight people do. I don't care if they have a club that says straight people can't come in. I could not care less. But public funds ought not be used to divide us based on race, religion, sexual orientation, or ethnic background.

Why do you have to equate that with hate? I've made it abundantly clear that I am not anti-anyone. And go fuck yourself with your "you don't go here anymore, so your opinion doesn't matter." I paid for my college education at NC State. I was valedictorian of my highschool and scored well on the SAT, but I didn't get any fucking scholarships. Because my parents made "too much money." My hard earned money (and some of my parents) were poured into that school and went to paying for programs like that. When you grow up, you'll get why it pisses off people so much when their funds are wasted.

And this "drop in the bucket" bullshit has got to end. That's like saying "It's just a little cancer"

Waste is waste you fucking morons.

And stop equating my position with being intolerant, hateful, or ignorant of the plight of a segment of the population. I am not any of those things and your condescension only makes you look foolish. I'm entitled to my own opinion.

10/27/2006 7:44:10 PM

Quote :

"If people's morals and values are held to a book of supposed stories, unproven at that, then i hold them to unlogical standards and practices because they dont challenge what is on paper, essentially what is put into their willing minds."

that book of morals and values that you so subtly insulted teaches compassion and tolerance. maybe you should read it before coming to your profound conclusions.

10/27/2006 7:53:54 PM

^^What county are you from? Did you apply for a bunch of scholarships? Did you take the PSAT?

[Edited on October 27, 2006 at 7:58 PM. Reason : VI've always wondered how they felt about that.]

10/27/2006 7:56:49 PM

i bet it pisses bgmims off that tax payers paid for most of his education

[Edited on October 27, 2006 at 7:58 PM. Reason : i mean if he went to a private university he could really play victim]

10/27/2006 7:57:58 PM

are there any countries that people get killed if they are gay?

10/27/2006 7:59:07 PM

Yes.

10/27/2006 7:59:26 PM

Quote :

"^^What county are you from? Did you apply for a bunch of scholarships? Did you take the PSAT?"

America, I applied for an assload, I took it but I have no recollection of how I did. I assume well, I've never made a B (college included)

Guth, I know that >50% of the total cost of my education came from tax dollars. But relative to the average student, I paid far more to go to college. Besides, my parents, being of upper middle class helped pay a lot of those taxes over the 17 years we lived in NC before I went to college.

10/27/2006 8:01:14 PM

Quote :

"are there any countries that people get killed if they are gay?"

Yes, and countries where people get killed for being Jewish, or Catholic, or an Adulteror, or a woman who speaks up.

__
shit, sorry for double post.

[Edited on October 27, 2006 at 8:02 PM. Reason : .]

10/27/2006 8:01:59 PM