^^ It isn't

It uses the D20 system, but it's not D&D.

12/4/2007 3:21:52 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Knights_of_the_Old_Republic

Quote :

"The game's system is based on Wizards of the Coast's Star Wars Roleplaying Game, which is based on the d20 role-playing game system derived from the Third Edition Dungeons & Dragons rules."

I mean, maybe some dweebs that go around pretending to throw lightning bolts at each other might be able to tell the difference, but I sure can't.

12/4/2007 3:31:34 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D20_system

Quote :

"The d20 System is a role-playing game system published in 2000 by Wizards of the Coast originally developed for the third edition of Dungeons & Dragons.[1] The system is named after the 20-sided dice which are central to the core mechanics of many actions in the game."

Several games apparently use the system, they aren't all D&D. Wizards of the coast leases the system out to other companies to make games.

12/4/2007 3:36:24 PM

Silly me, I thought D&D stood for Dungeons and Dragons.

12/4/2007 3:53:21 PM

where did I say it didn't?

Half-life used the engine developed for quake, is it a game in the quake series?

[Edited on December 4, 2007 at 4:56 PM. Reason : D20 and D&D aren't the same thing]

12/4/2007 4:56:07 PM

Quote :

"Silly me, I thought D&D stood for Dungeons and Dragons."

Exactly... notice the lack of both from the KOTOR games. A more pointed example might be the Thief series and System Shock 2. They all used the "Dark" engine and were even desinged by the same people and had similar play to a small extent- but saying System Shock 2 was a Thief game is just as wrong as saying that KOTOR is a D&D game.

KOTOR vs D&D is actually a worse comparison than Thief vs System Shock 2 as KOTOR games are less similar to any D&D game than Thief and System Shock 2 were.

12/4/2007 5:11:04 PM

So I started a new career as a chick to try and lez out with the asari. I string Kaiden along for a little while(homo?) but eventually he gets all pissy and makes me choose between them. He even declined my suggestion for a threesome, what a loser.


God I love this game



[Edited on December 4, 2007 at 11:37 PM. Reason : .]

12/4/2007 11:37:15 PM

Quote :

"KOTOR games are less similar to any D&D game than Thief and System Shock 2 were."

KOTOR felt a whole lot like Icewind Dale 2, actually, the only real differences being the size of the party and the smaller spell (force) selection, weapon selection, and camera angle... and obviously the setting for the story. At least thats what I thought of the PC version of KotOR.

Thief and SS2? Not nearly so much.

[Edited on December 5, 2007 at 2:08 AM. Reason : .]

[Edited on December 5, 2007 at 2:09 AM. Reason : .]

12/5/2007 2:08:37 AM

Oooook. IWD2 had no-

NPC Party members at all (they were all user generated and had no particular backplot or fleshing out whatsoever)
Party member interaction (since it was a user generated squad.)
Player character developement (you didn't even play a character anyways, but an amorphous group who could be swapped out with saved character files whenever)
Multiple Endings (you either won or died.)

One is an RPG where you play a character who indidually interacts with other characters in very personal ways, the ohter you is more like a squad based RPG where you play your party without any real focus on any character. If you want to ignore other fundamental differences like the action oriented play of KOTOR where you qued up commands vs the RTS style combat in IWD2 where you had a blob of party members and either relied on AI control or gave click-to-attack orders- fine.

But yeah other than the story, setting, combat, character focus, ability to interact with party members, game engine, ability to affect the ending of the game, and degree of linearity they're the same game.

Yes thief and system shock 2 aren't aren't hugely similar, but they're more similar than the two games you just compared. They use the same engine, they both employ stealth elements, they both focus on a single character's exploration of primarily hostile and dark environs, they both employed first person combat, they both utilized ammo and health item scarcity to increase tension. Sure they're fundamentally different games, but the way they play has much more in common than IWD2 and KOTOR. You haven't actually played any of these games you're talking about have you?

[Edited on December 5, 2007 at 2:47 AM. Reason : ]

12/5/2007 2:44:59 AM

^I figured mentioning party members and the setting in my post would keep someone from picking apart very similar things like the details of user-generated NPCs vs game-generated NPCs (and the interactions that fall under this category) and things like story and ending style... these things really don't have much influence over the type of game it is, at least in this case. The plot really doesn't have anything to do with whether its a dnd game or not, though, so why even bother bringing that up?

For me, the combat was nearly identical between the two games. I rarely ever queued more than 1 or 2 actions beyond the one currently being performed in KotOR, since I tended to change actions mid-combat, rather than just setting it and letting the characters do the work. Felt the same as the point-click system of IWD2, only slightly more annoying.

My point was that the feel of the game (the way combat happened, the interaction with non-party NPCs, and that sort of thing) was generally the same, based heavily on a DnD system. My viewpoint might be a little off, though, due to what I've played before those two... After playing through Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, and Icewind Dale 1, I started up IWD2 and immediately WTF'd at the entire setup of character creation and the differences between the two DnD systems. I put IWD2 down for a while because the lack of party talk and the 3e rules bored the hell out of me, and a while later I got KOTOR. I immediately WTF'd at the fact that it used the exact same system as IWD2 in terms of character creation and development (ignoring obvious minor differences... less classes, spells=force, skill in blaster instead of bows, ect). I actually finished KOTOR, though, since it had an interesting plot and more character interaction.

Quote :

""Silly me, I thought D&D stood for Dungeons and Dragons." Exactly... notice the lack of both from the KOTOR games."

Using the idea that "no dungeons or dragons = not D&D" is just silly, considering that there have been quite a few D&D games that didn't actually include a dragon, and that KotOR pretty much has "dungeons" anyway. You just can't say that something fundamentally based on a D&D system is not a D&D game.


...Why the fuck are we even talking about D&D in the Mass Effect topic? This is Mass Effect.


[Edited on December 5, 2007 at 4:34 AM. Reason : .]

12/5/2007 4:32:13 AM

Quote :

"You just can't say that something fundamentally based on a D&D system is not a D&D game. "

I know, right?

Some people just have to argue the semantics of everything.

12/5/2007 10:15:58 AM

Quote :

"I string Kaiden along for a little while(homo?)"

We have a faggot amongst us.

12/5/2007 10:35:13 AM

rofl

12/5/2007 10:37:22 AM

Hey now

I flirted with dudes in WoW all the time to get free shit.

ERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

12/5/2007 10:45:14 AM

Ya well I just lezzed out with a hot alien, so who's a gay now? Crap it's still me, isn't it?

12/5/2007 2:41:11 PM

Not gay, but technically it means you enjoy man-beast relations.

Our society hasn't evolved enough to accept hot alien on girl action.

KEKEKEKEKEKE

=P

12/5/2007 3:28:30 PM

wow, this game is fantastic

about 7 hours in, and I can't put it down

I went renegade vanguard first time, and i'm thinking i'll be the "good guy" adept next play through to see how it differs

I'll probably eventually try a solider roll as well so I can get up to heavy armor and the big guns (i have a feeling i'm going to play through with a pistol most of the game)

I am a little surprised how early you have so many people join your party. I believe at 7 hours (just was "promoted" if you know what I mean) I have 5 additional members to choose from. I'm used to having to earn those people as I progress.

12/6/2007 8:03:05 AM

how long does it take to hook up with the blue chick? she keeps saying she wants to take her time. am i not being aggresive enough?

i initially wanted to bang ashley but after talking to her she's being a catty bitch

always poking fun at poor liara

12/6/2007 8:45:40 AM

The romance plot is tied to the main plot.

You'll do the hibbitty jibbitty automatically when you start the final mission.

12/6/2007 9:06:41 AM

what the fuck.

this game is way too hard.

12/18/2007 12:27:41 AM

Play a soldier the first time through.

It's the easiest class, and it lets you learn the combat system while still being hard to kill.

12/18/2007 12:40:38 AM

So a vindicator or whatever i picked was a bad choice?

12/18/2007 1:15:29 AM

Vanguard? Nah, that's probably 2nd easiest.

Use cover as much as possible, pause and use your powers a lot, use the correct weapon for the range you are at (shotgun up close, pistol far away).

It might help to switch your squadmates power usage to active.

12/18/2007 1:41:36 AM

fuck it i don't have the patience to do all these side quests now. i barely beat Kotor II

[Edited on December 18, 2007 at 2:01 AM. Reason : II]

12/18/2007 2:00:58 AM

just pick soldier and blow through the main quest then

all you're missing is additional equipment and the opportunity to gain levels (i'm assuming anyway, I'm still only about 11 hours in)

[Edited on December 18, 2007 at 9:25 AM. Reason : .]

12/18/2007 8:56:33 AM

don't be a bitch, do the side quests

immerse yourself

12/18/2007 9:09:54 AM

yeah for real, it'll be fun spending an extra 6 hours driving around on the same planets with the same terrain but different coloring and shading while searching for metal deposits to survey and electronics to decrypt so that you can get yet another weapon accessory that you'll soon have to turn into omni gel when you reach your item carrying limit

12/18/2007 9:36:26 AM

Quote :

"what the fuck. this game is way too hard."

Turn the combat difficulty setting to casual and make sure the auto aim is on high. Also, you might want to make sure it's set so your group members use their powers on their own. Game is crazy easy on casual setting.

12/18/2007 9:53:01 AM

Quote :

"yeah for real, it'll be fun spending an extra 6 hours driving around on the same planets with the same terrain but different coloring and shading while searching for metal deposits to survey and electronics to decrypt so that you can get yet another weapon accessory that you'll soon have to turn into omni gel when you reach your item carrying limit"

those aren't side quests

that's just exploring

12/18/2007 9:57:25 AM

turian insignia missions, ore deposits, etc come up in my Journal so i'd say they're more than just exploring

12/18/2007 10:08:04 AM

techincally you're right, but you know what i mean

that's like 3 journal entries out of how many?

12/18/2007 10:17:41 AM

i dunno but that shit is crazy repetitive

i've already beaten the game once and i'm on my 2nd playthrough...but i dunno how anybody could play this game and not think that some parts of it are overly repetitive...oh well at least you can just cruise around in your spaceship and survey enough planets and asteroids to find most of the stuff

12/18/2007 10:21:26 AM

i agree that driving around planets is mind-numbingly repetitive and you have to fight through the exact same building on pretty much every planet to reach your objective in many of the side missions.

i still think it's worth it to complete most of the side missions

12/18/2007 10:32:33 AM

yeah i did most of them on my first playthrough...i think i'll get up to level 30-40 doing citadel side missions and the main missions first and then be able to tear ass on the side missions

12/18/2007 11:11:11 AM

i'm rolling with the broads because they are foxy.

12/18/2007 3:01:47 PM

WHAT THE FUCK WHY IS THIS FIRST MAKO MISSION SO HARD.

12/18/2007 3:50:16 PM

right trigger - gun
right bumper - huge gun
A button - jump/boosters

now its not so hard

12/18/2007 3:54:17 PM

i know all of that, i get hit once and i die wtf.

12/18/2007 3:55:30 PM

sounds like a case of the n00b to me

take a google.com and call us in the morning

12/18/2007 4:02:32 PM

try avoiding the fire and shooting from a distance. Use both main and secondary fire. And well, stop sucking.

Don't noob up the thread with how bad you are at this game. It's really not that bad, I had it on veteran and I'm doing fine

12/18/2007 4:19:04 PM

yeah you can usually take out the burrowing animals on the planets, as well as the big stationary guns, by simply moving back and forth, or even jumping the mako, when a shot comes your way

Kainen? more like Kaiden amirite

12/18/2007 4:20:14 PM

i started only moving forward and backwards and itz ezmoad nao

12/18/2007 6:11:26 PM

couple other tips for when you're fighting inside one of the generically shaped buildings on a planet:

- if your health is struggling and there are lots of enemies, you can go back into one of the tunnels you used to get to the current room and simply close the door and wait for your health to improve
- be aware of your enemies and powerups...if you're fighting a bunch of robots it makes no sense to have your "25% Damage vs. Organics" powerup equipped

etc

12/18/2007 7:09:02 PM

someone elaborate on these 'tactics' because right now they don't do shit other than the move one.

12/19/2007 1:33:27 AM

maybe get your little sister to beat it for you? or your grandma?

12/19/2007 10:08:42 AM

any game that takes 12+ hours to get through the first few quests/levels = worth $60

12/20/2007 12:49:46 PM

Yeah I beat it on hard in 24 hours.

Pretty much toward the end, and just like every other bioware game in existance, I was owning geth like they were pieces of walking dung. I mean rocking them like swiss cheese. It's all about the assault rifle. That's all I used the entire game.

Start game with Wrex and Garrus, mid game take Liara and Garrus (you have to have some tech to open shit), until the end when you are maxxed on items like the special ops gear and stuff, take Liara and Ashley. Anyting even comes close Liara (she has awesome AI) she will send them flying and you and Ashley will straight up own anything with AR armed with Tungsten rounds VII (40% against synthetics). By then you have ridiculous armor like shields VII and Medical Exoskeleton and it's just not even fair for Saren.

12/20/2007 1:09:15 PM

What the fuck.

they ended this shit with the possibility of a sequel? fuck that.

12/22/2007 5:03:03 PM

if i cant play as a jellyfish next game, im not buying it.

12/22/2007 5:36:30 PM

Quote :

"they ended this shit with the possibility of a sequel? fuck that."

Actually it's going to be a trilogy.

They have said that for like 2 years.

12/22/2007 8:53:29 PM