7

Quote :

"yeah, that kiting shit sounds gay... thats more fucking with the mechanic limitations of the game than actual strategy"

/facepalm

[Edited on November 9, 2009 at 7:43 AM. Reason : 2]

[Edited on November 9, 2009 at 7:44 AM. Reason : 7]

11/9/2009 7:43:38 AM

This weekend I traded in my 360 version for the PC. I love the game as far as I got into it (Redcliffe castle) but the battle system for the 360 was just a little too clunky for me...plus I hated wading through all those menus to get to the lore. Only a few minutes into the PC version (same setup as a dwarf noble warrior, dual-wield probably) but already staggered by the graphical upgrade, plus the zoom out feature is amazing.

Well worth the $10 I had to pay to trade up!

11/9/2009 9:44:09 AM

i played this game for probably about 2 hours before i figured out how to zoom in on the pc version some of the 'fatality' animations look cool as fuck. glad i rolled a rogue.

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

[Edited on November 9, 2009 at 11:03 AM. Reason : ]

11/9/2009 11:02:39 AM

Did anyone kill the bewitched templar and the demon? That bastard was hard as fuck. After many wipes, I figured out that you have to kill the minions first, and then finally the templar and his demon bitch. In almost every other fight like this, you down the templar and the demon bitch first, and cleanup the minions after. After I cleanup Circle Tower, I'm supposed to go back and save Connor. My guess is dude is super powerful, everyone is now possessed, and I'm going to have to kill a lot of mofos.

Still playing on Hard, and I'm not going to lower the difficulty, ever! rawr e-p33n.

Dwarf Noble Warrior (Off Tank/High DPS/Stamina Whore)
2-Handed Great Axe for Crit %
Heavy Armor
Precise Mode for extra Crit %
Str/Con/Dex/Will (nothing else matters)

Wynne (Priest/Heals/Buffs/Some AOE)
Morrigan (Mage/High DPS/Crowd Control/Some AOE)
Allistar (Main Tank/High Defense/Low DPS/Punching Bag)

[Edited on November 9, 2009 at 11:15 AM. Reason : -]

11/9/2009 11:09:45 AM

hey asshole

Quote :

"Do the rest of us a favor when this game comes out and don't post everything you find, even with your spoiler tags Because I know some of you will play for 80+ hours in the first week alone, while the majority of us will sneak in an hour here and an hour there over the course of the next month or so "

11/9/2009 11:11:46 AM

i just pissed that i missed my opportunity to get blood mage (i think)

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

11/9/2009 11:35:26 AM

Quote :

"/facepalm"

some of us get through life taking the easy way out, and the rest of us do it the Smith Barney way; we eaaaaaaaarn it

11/9/2009 1:55:26 PM

^WTF are you talking about?

If you beat a boss by using strategy you are cheating guys!! There will be a lot of angry WoW kids now.

[Edited on November 9, 2009 at 2:00 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2009 1:59:38 PM

there is a difference between strategy and taking advantage of the limitations of the AI...

"hey fellas, if you have a fast guy that can take some hits, run him around in circles and the boss will unrealistically follow them around while getting pelted with range attacks the entire time, he never stops chasing the guy, never once considers going after the people actually doing damage! this strategy rules!"


its just like NCAA or Madden, there are plays that ALWAYS work no matter what because the AI wasnt programmed to handle them, you can use them all the time and always win but what would be the point?? You have to make yourself not use them or the game isnt fun...

[Edited on November 9, 2009 at 2:26 PM. Reason : d]

11/9/2009 2:23:04 PM

Quote :

""hey fellas, if you have a fast guy that can take some hits, run him around in circles and the boss will unrealistically follow them around while getting pelted with range attacks the entire time, he never stops chasing the guy, never once considers going after the people actually doing damage! this strategy rules!""

I was right, you are a moron lol. That is not the Strategy at all and it has nothing to do with limiting factors in the game mechanics. You clearly haven't read a single post and still have no fucking clue what Aggro means or how it works.


I'll post the strat for the 3rd time and MAYBE this time you'll actually go find out what aggro means and what these words strung together mean. Because it seems you are having serious difficulty comprehending this sentence.

Quote :

"I had to kite him around with whoever had aggro and had to keep switching control to the character with aggro so he can just kite him in circles."

And no...this isn't like the plays that always work in sports games...not even close. but thanks for trying.

[Edited on November 9, 2009 at 2:27 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2009 2:25:21 PM

Some would say it's common sense to not stand still and get your cloth wearing head bashed in if you have a choice. Maybe we should refer to kiting as dodging or evasion? Perhaps the buzzword is killing the concept for you. Besides, if you really want to earn the win, play the game on hard like me.

11/9/2009 2:27:18 PM

so he didnt explain it here pretty much identical to what I just said? :

Quote :

"kiting basically is having the person a mob is targeting run generally around so that ranged can attack it while the mob doesn't hit its target. "

Quote :

""hey fellas, if you have a fast guy that can take some hits, run him around in circles and the boss will unrealistically follow them around while getting pelted with range attacks the entire time"

^ there is a difference between moving a weak character who is getting hit away from something attacking them, I am fine with that. But its the taking advantage of the AI CONTINUING to chase that guy while other fighters that are actually doing damage are attacking it that bothers me.

[Edited on November 9, 2009 at 2:29 PM. Reason : d]

11/9/2009 2:27:23 PM

^except thats wrong because you are still missing the concept of AGGRO...durrrr

I guess i'll go head and explain aggro again for those slower folk.

When you 'kite, dodge, evade, run away from' the boss with one character after getting his attention with an attack or threat...the boss/mob will target you.

When another character causes more threat on that same target by doing damage or using a 'threat' type special ability that same boss/mob will now target the new character

rince repeat. This is not a hack, exploit or any other buzz word you picked up from other gamers. This is how these games work. You could just sit there and heal your tank for 5 minutes and tank and spank it but this doesn't work on all bosses. If you're a cloth wearing mage this definitely won't work because you're dead in 1 to 2 hits. So how do you solve this problem? you taunt the target and get him to chase you while everyone else attacks and when someones pissed him off more than the first character he'll start chasing them and their next move is to run away.

Would this work if the target was smaller and faster, probably not...but then they probably won't hit as hard either.

[Edited on November 9, 2009 at 2:33 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2009 2:28:31 PM

I assume aggro is whoever the boss is attacking... that doesnt change anything though, still bullshit

11/9/2009 2:29:49 PM

Right, be eventually, the ranged attackers will grab the monsters attention again, forcing the monster to attack the ranged attacker that has done the most damage to him recently, negating the exploitation of AI, via what is known as aggro. Aggro is just a fancy word for Hate, or how fucking pissed off you made the enemy due to your actions. So in your example, the enemy would stop following the fast guy, and instead start attacking the guys who are doing damage to him.

Kiting is basically the evasive maneuvers you take during the time that aggro gets re-directed. We are talking about a matter of second(s), not minutes of running around like an idiot with Benny Hill music playing.

[Edited on November 9, 2009 at 2:34 PM. Reason : -]

11/9/2009 2:31:37 PM

ok, question:

Does the AI typically make the creatures seek shelter from your ranged attacks behind something like a wall, box, bookcase, pillar?

11/9/2009 2:34:15 PM

^^^so by your very own words, using a warriors taunt talents to get aggro off of a weaker character is exploiting the AI

^what does that have to do with anything? I sure hope you aren't trying to imply that if it doesn't you shouldn't use ranged attacks because its 'cheating'

[Edited on November 9, 2009 at 2:36 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2009 2:34:39 PM

not at all... but if you then run around with the guy that taunted and just have the boss chase you while getting pelted with arrows and shit and never taking cover, then yes it is.


Ok, think of it this way... if you were fighting a group of creatures that all had range weapons except for one... and that one started running all over the place (and wasnt attacking you), would you just blindly follow him around and continue to get hit by the arrows? no, of course you wouldnt, because you realize thats stupid. The AI cant realize that. You would attack the ones shooting at you... and if that one then decided to run, you would seek cover and make them come to you... the AI doesnt do that



[Edited on November 9, 2009 at 2:38 PM. Reason : d]

11/9/2009 2:35:31 PM

^no, you are managing threat. This is how every game of this type works. Its part of the game mechanics.

11/9/2009 2:36:59 PM

This really depends on the monster. Have you fought a Revenant yet? A Revenant will massively pull your entire group to it's feet, cast some AOE spells, and kill your entire group in one fell swoop. The AI in this game is very intelligent, but it depends on the enemy.

No system is perfect, but if you have a warrior taunt a monster and then jump off a cliff into lava and kill the monster in the process, that would be an example of an exploit.

[Edited on November 9, 2009 at 2:42 PM. Reason : -]

11/9/2009 2:38:44 PM

^ yes, and he kicked my ass, I obviously wasnt ready to fight him yet, so I moved on and then came back and beat him (without "kiting")

11/9/2009 2:41:41 PM

^^thats what i'm saying. You have to strategize for each boss or mob. What works for one might not work for another PLUS factoring in what classes you have in your party means a different strategy.

Kiting is not a hack or glitch.

^I was able to beat him WITH kiting because my warrior wasn't strong enough to just tank. This isn't a first person shooter where you just run in and spray and pray. You have to think about how to take on each mob.

[Edited on November 9, 2009 at 2:44 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2009 2:42:54 PM

When I'm playing, I try to avoid using tactics that wouldn't be logical in real life

Yeah, I know a game with wizards and monsters isn't realistic already, but thats beside the point

That run around "you cant catch me !" stuff you guys keep talking about would ruin the game for me

I don't care if thats what the hardcore RPG players do; I use strategies that make sense to me

You guys get your tactics from internet message boards, I'll get mine from Sun Tzu

11/9/2009 2:43:20 PM

^ exactly


like I said, a few years back in NCAA you could do the following for example: if it was 4th down and short yardage, and the CPU was going to run for the 1st down, you could call a FG block defense... seeing that, the CPU would ALWAYS switch away from the short yardage formation BUT still try to run and your FG block defense would destroy it. You could do that EVERYTIME, but what was the fun in that?

^^ if you had to use kiting then you werent ready for him... I obviously showed you can beat him without doing that and without taking advantage of the Benny Hill running around in circles shit.

[Edited on November 9, 2009 at 2:47 PM. Reason : d]

11/9/2009 2:45:54 PM

Quote :

"Ok, think of it this way... if you were fighting a group of creatures that all had range weapons except for one... and that one started running all over the place (and wasnt attacking you), would you just blindly follow him around and continue to get hit by the arrows? no, of course you wouldnt, because you realize thats stupid. The AI cant realize that. You would attack the ones shooting at you... and if that one then decided to run, you would seek cover and make them come to you... the AI doesnt do that"

/facepalm

Quote :

"When I'm playing, I try to avoid using tactics that wouldn't be logical in real life Yeah, I know a game with wizards and monsters isn't realistic already, but thats beside the point That run around "you cant catch me !" stuff you guys keep talking about would ruin the game for me I don't care if thats what the hardcore RPG players do; I use strategies that make sense to me You guys get your tactics from internet message boards, I'll get mine from Sun Tzu"

I hope you guys share whatever it is you're smoking.

and yes, the 'you can't catch me' does work even for Sun Tzu.

[Edited on November 9, 2009 at 2:47 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2009 2:45:56 PM

The only kiting I do in this game involves my mage and priest. Basically I use Mind Blast to stun the mobs around my casters, back up to maximum distance, and then allow my warriors to get aggro back. That's it, everything else is balls deep, SPACE, ISSUE COMMANDS, SPACE, ISSUE COMMANDS. I'm fucking these monsters up time machine style.

On Hard mind you. No shortcuts.

[Edited on November 9, 2009 at 2:47 PM. Reason : -]

11/9/2009 2:46:29 PM

^^ nice facepalm to avoid admitting you wouldnt chase the guy around while continuously getting hit.

11/9/2009 2:48:10 PM

^^you're glitching the AI if you use mind blast to stun him and run away to attack from range.

^its not even worth responding to because you, sir, are an idiot.

[Edited on November 9, 2009 at 2:48 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2009 2:48:25 PM

why? so you are saying you would do the exact thing that the CPU does? so the CPU is doing the optimal strategy by chasing you around?

11/9/2009 2:50:30 PM

Crowd control spells and abilities exist in the game because the benny hill approach doesn't work.

The CPU will never be as aware as a human, ever. If it was ever as aware as a human, you would never win.

[Edited on November 9, 2009 at 2:51 PM. Reason : -]

11/9/2009 2:50:39 PM

I agree, and my point is to not do corny and unrealistic shit to take advantage of that discrepancy (see the NCAA example, it wasnt a cheat code or something like that, it was completely within the "rules" of the game, but it was bullshit, so you make yourself NOT do it because it takes the fun out of it)

[Edited on November 9, 2009 at 2:53 PM. Reason : d]

11/9/2009 2:52:27 PM

^^The CPU is going after the target he's been attacking and doing the most damage to and doing the most damage to him.

In your scenario there is no reason to chase said mob because I never attacked him and I'm obviously getting more damage caused from a different target so I go after them. which is EXACTLY how the kitting strategy works, the boss goes after whatever target is the bigger pain in his ass.

^again...this is your first RPG or game of this sort so you just wouldn't understand how it works yet.

[Edited on November 9, 2009 at 2:54 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2009 2:53:28 PM

ok, so if you attacked the guy doing the most damage to you and he then started to run you would chase him around while getting hit the entire time from arrows?


like I said, I was playing RPGs when you were probably 5 years old so dont give me that... I just dont choose to use unrealistic strategies to beat the game

[Edited on November 9, 2009 at 2:55 PM. Reason : d]

11/9/2009 2:54:29 PM

If you can win by the skin on your teeth, you should, just as long as you aren't exploiting or blatantly cheating. Kiting is standard protocol for casters.

In your example of NCAA, that is an exploit.

[Edited on November 9, 2009 at 2:58 PM. Reason : -]

11/9/2009 2:55:40 PM

if i can keep up with him or keep him from running around then absolutely...because the quicker i take him down the less damage he does over time to me.

This is also why that particular mob has the ability to pick your ass up and pummel you to death. And other boss/mobs have stun abilities.

Just like in any situation where weaker units are attacking a much stronger, bigger, and slower unit. Little ambushes here and there until he's down. You aren't going to win 1v1. Thats some more Sun Tzu for you too.

^^Ok, gramps...except when I was 5...there were no RPG's that you were playing, and chances are you didn't have access to a computer.

[Edited on November 9, 2009 at 2:58 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2009 2:57:26 PM

I am not saying it doesnt work, I am just saying its bullshit to me to have to resort to that win and it takes the fun out of the game... its like playing fucking Dragon Warrior back in the day and just running around in the woods for hours to build up gold and shit... sure it "works", and is probably the optimal way to beat the game, but its BORING.


I guess the process of the game itself is more important to me than beating it... life's a journey, not a destiation

11/9/2009 2:58:20 PM

^lol...its bullshit to use your brain and out maneuver your enemy when you don't out gun them? ho'kay...lol

11/9/2009 2:58:55 PM

no, its the opposite, using your brain and NOT resorting to a gimmick is more fun... what you are doing is just blindly repeating the same process, "run in circles, switch character, run in circles again, switch character, run in circles again, that's not "using your brain"

11/9/2009 3:00:22 PM

There is no reward in this game for your brand of courage except death. Standing your ground is perfect for a Tank, but utterly stupid for a caster, hence kiting.

11/9/2009 3:00:46 PM

There is no way I can pay this game, Diablo 2, and CODMW2 all at the same time so I have to part with one. I have a PC copy of this game for $35. I used the codes for the free items, but they are not all that anyway. Let me know if you want to get this.

11/9/2009 3:00:58 PM

I never said anything about standing your ground... I just said not to run in circles.

11/9/2009 3:01:17 PM

the only reason you are running in circles is because its a round room

^and you're either standing your ground or your running around. You can't do both.

[Edited on November 9, 2009 at 3:03 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2009 3:02:26 PM

good lord... are you 12?

^ there is a difference between running in a realistic way, and running in circles like a maniac

[Edited on November 9, 2009 at 3:05 PM. Reason : d]

11/9/2009 3:02:44 PM

^it may seem like it since I'm bringing myself down to your level to respond to your retarded bullshit.

Quote :

"no, its the opposite, using your brain and NOT resorting to a gimmick is more fun... what you are doing is just blindly repeating the same process, "run in circles, switch character, run in circles again, switch character, run in circles again, that's not "using your brain""

The point is wasted on you. I guess these games must have been different back when I was 5 and you were playing RPG's

and the running in circles is literally short enough that ranged can get a cast or arrow in or two before he switches targets. so the only 'hack' is having to pause so much but then thats part of this game anyway.

[Edited on November 9, 2009 at 3:06 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2009 3:04:04 PM

There is no way I can pay this game, Diablo 2, and CODMW2 all at the same time so I have to part with one. I have a PC copy of this game for $35. I used the codes for the free items, but they are not all that anyway. Let me know if you want to get this.

11/9/2009 3:05:36 PM

^ hahahha

^^ you win your way, and I will win the Smith Barney way

11/9/2009 3:06:29 PM

11/9/2009 3:09:14 PM

To each his own, but technically speaking, kiting is not an exploitation of the AI, because the game mechanics are balanced to prevent Benny Hill. We are really talking about a matter of seconds of extra damage and preventing the inevitable death of your casters if you stayed still, not a 4th down guaranteed win, or jumping in a lava pit with the enemy in a protective bubble.

[Edited on November 9, 2009 at 3:11 PM. Reason : -]

11/9/2009 3:09:54 PM

technically speaking I consider doing anything that you know isnt realistic (within the setting of the game) is exploiting the AI.


Another example from NCAA... the option is too easy to run. If you need a first down, you can run an option and get it 95% of the time, even if you are using a team that doesnt use the option. Its not cheating, its not a glitch, but it is taking advantage of the AI so I force myself to never use the option unless the team is an actual option team like Georgia Tech

[Edited on November 9, 2009 at 3:19 PM. Reason : d]

11/9/2009 3:17:39 PM

wow you guys managed to shit up this thread pretty quickly.

11/9/2009 3:21:57 PM