Thank god this boondoggle waste of tax payer money is over.


^ you are comparing apples and oranges you fucking n00b.

While i do not agree with a lot of the Gov't Run health car ideas; I see in no way how the operation of Ca$h for Clunker$, created to appease Detroit and Enviro hippies, as a reflection on any kind of involvment in healthcare by the gov't.

Using your hooksaw logic a liberal could just as easily argued well if the gov't can run such a huge, advanced, and effective orgainization such as our military than surely they can run a program of doctors, nurses, etc.

[Edited on August 21, 2009 at 11:49 AM. Reason : a]

8/21/2009 11:45:43 AM

Quote :

"you are comparing apples and oranges. . . ."

Prove it, douche. And you're a life n00b, unibrow.

8/21/2009 12:06:01 PM

Quote :

"life n00b"

lol

RESPECT MY AGE, BITCHES!

Also, get off my lawn.

8/21/2009 12:20:04 PM

^ But you didn't take issue with his name-calling, did you, dickhead? Try to stay on topic, Tarzan, okay?

Quote :

"you are comparing apples and oranges. . . ."

HURL

Quote :

"Prove it, douche."

hooksaw

8/21/2009 12:23:34 PM

^^^ unibrow???

is that the best you could come up with. Last time i looked in the mirror i do not have one but when you look in the mirror
you see




[Edited on August 21, 2009 at 12:25 PM. Reason : d]

8/21/2009 12:24:55 PM

Quote :

"you didn't take issue with his name-calling"

(I wasn't taking issue with name-calling)

8/21/2009 12:26:32 PM

Quote :

"you are comparing apples and oranges. . . ."

HURL

Quote :

"Prove it, douche."

hooksaw

8/21/2009 12:27:47 PM

I wish upon clicking on a post there was a people filter to block out douches you don't want to see like hooksaw. Every post i read from hooksaw are lost seconds wasted of my life .

8/21/2009 2:33:27 PM

^ There are plenty of bridges you could jump off.

8/21/2009 3:03:01 PM

or that could collapse any moment

8/21/2009 3:04:50 PM

Quote :

"Using your hooksaw logic a liberal could just as easily argued well if the gov't can run such a huge, advanced, and effective orgainization such as our military than surely they can run a program of doctors, nurses, etc."

That person obviously would have never spent a day inside the supply and logistics operations of our military, then. The military falls victim to the exact same nightmares that other government arms suffer from. There's a reason for the "military intelligence" jokes out there. It's just not politically kosher to say so and mean it. Efficiency and organization is the last thing they need to be applauded for, regardless of how one views their overall or specific missions.

[Edited on August 21, 2009 at 3:21 PM. Reason : a]

8/21/2009 3:20:40 PM

^ That's so true. And my MOS was in supply. LOL!

8/21/2009 7:16:00 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/22/us/22dealers.html?hp

1 min ago

8/21/2009 8:37:57 PM

Quote :

"Dealers have complained of cumbersome software, applications rejected on tiny technicalities like a misspelled name, and slow reimbursement."

Quote :

"'The government hasn't shown a lot of love towards dealers in that if we don't get the paperwork in on Monday, we're out our money,' Mr. Frost said. 'We just have to pray to the government gods that it's forthcoming. We're doing rain dances.'"

The Obama administration is pedantic!

8/22/2009 8:48:01 AM

What's the big deal?

Pedanticalness is a virtue in your book.

[Edited on August 22, 2009 at 10:12 AM. Reason : ]

8/22/2009 10:12:00 AM

[user]failburro[/user]-

Quote :

"so, you cann definitely cheer on putting more gas-guzzling cars and trucks on the road. way to go. geniuses., all of you"

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/08/26/final-tally-for-cash-for-clunkers-700-000-sales-2-877b/

Quote :

"In all, 84% of participating customers traded in pickup trucks, and 59% ended up with passenger cars. The other 41% was split up among crossovers, SUVs and new pickups. The Transportation Department says the program resulted in a 58% improvement in fuel economy for the new vehicles, as the outgoing models averaged 15.8 mpg while the new models averaged 24.9 mpg."

Top 10 trade-in vehicles

1. Ford Explorer 4WD

2. Ford F150 Pickup 2WD

3. Jeep Grand Cherokee 4WD

4. Ford Explorer 2WD

5. Dodge Caravan/Grand Caravan 2WD

6. Jeep Cherokee 4WD

7. Chevrolet Blazer 4WD

8. Chevrolet C1500 Pickup 2WD

9. Ford F150 Pickup 4WD

10. Ford Windstar FWD Van


Top 10 new vehicles purchased

1. Toyota Corolla

2. Honda Civic

3. Toyota Camry

4. Ford Focus FWD

5. Hyundai Elantra

6. Nissan Versa

7. Toyota Prius

8. Honda Accord

9. Honda Fit

10. Ford Escape FWD

[Edited on August 26, 2009 at 1:31 PM. Reason : .]

8/26/2009 1:30:03 PM

too bad that list isn't accurate. but, nice try

8/26/2009 7:18:03 PM

Doesn't matter if the rankings aren't accurate, the totals are all that matter. And the end result is a 58% improvement in fuel economy. You fail.

[Edited on August 26, 2009 at 8:11 PM. Reason : .]

8/26/2009 8:10:48 PM

yes. 58% better than shit is still, guess what... shit!

8/26/2009 8:13:18 PM

lol, you have to be trolling.

8/26/2009 8:22:35 PM

Quote :

"DETROIT (Reuters) – Toyota Motor Corp is recalling about 95,700 Toyota and Scion vehicles sold in the United States because ice could accumulate on their braking systems and make it harder for drivers to slow down. The recall involves 2009 and 2010 model year Toyota Corolla, Corolla Matrix and 2008 and 2009 Scion xD vehicles, all equipped with 1.8 liter engines, the company said in a statement on Wednesday. If people drive the cars in extremely low temperatures, ice may accumulate at the brake system port and decrease braking power and lengthen vehicle stopping distances, Toyota said. Since the condition can happen at low temperatures, Toyota's recall applies to vehicle owners in 19 states: Alaska, Colorado, Idaho, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New York, North Dakota, South Dakota, Vermont, Wisconsin and Wyoming."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090826/ts_nm/us_toyota_recall_3

so all those people that bought Corolla's this weekend..."yeah, we're gonna need that back..."

8/26/2009 11:50:46 PM

Clunkers: Dealers get ready for the 'hangover'
In the days and weeks after Cash for Clunkers ends, sales will drop sharply.
August 25, 2009

http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/24/autos/clunkers_what_now/?postversion=2009082511

Published August 27 2009
Concern over 'cash for clunkers'
While the Cash for Clunkers program wrapped up at 8 p.m. on Monday, several area car dealerships have yet to see federal reimbursements, totaling thousands of dollars

Quote :

"Before the program began July 24, dealerships were advised that reimbursements would be issued within 10 days of a sale. According to a press release from the National Automobile Dealers Association, about 690,000 cash for clunkers deals were submitted, leaving $2.8 billion in government-owed rebates. Total submitted claims do not include any applications that are resubmitted after the program closed. Dean Bender, owner of 36-year-old Dean Bender Chevrolet in Killdeer, said his dealership quit the program two weeks ago amid frustrations. 'It’s the biggest fiasco and joke they’ve ever done,' Bender said. 'Where do they (government) find these idiots that come up with these programs?' Of the seven program sales Bender’s dealership made, he has yet to see a federally reimbursed dime."

http://www.thedickinsonpress.com/event/article/id/26595/

8/27/2009 6:33:16 AM

^^ Which has fuck all to do with the CFC program.

But did you know your "rebate" is taxable: http://www.keloland.com/NewsDetail6162.cfm?Id=0,89084

8/27/2009 7:31:12 AM

Quote :

"Thank god this boondoggle waste of tax payer money is over."

8/27/2009 7:36:24 AM

so what's this appliance rebate I'm hearing about now? Is there a thread on it somewhere?

8/27/2009 8:13:24 AM

http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-Autos/idUSTRE57P5C220090826

8/27/2009 12:04:20 PM

A dealership near where i used to live in Queens, NY is owed about $600,000 from the gov't.

lol, have fun getting that

8/27/2009 12:16:12 PM

So, despite Cash for Clunkers, GM's sales were still off 20% from this time last year and Chrysler's were off 15%. Perhaps it is well past time to let these two dinosaurs die.

9/1/2009 6:21:43 PM

To be fair to Chrysler, according to that ^^^ article it had the most limited inventory due to factories being shut down during its bankruptcy, and it has "the industry's most truck-heavy line-up." That said, it was not helped by having one of the least appealing car line-ups in the industry.

Apparently GM faced a similar shortage of inventory due to slowed production.

9/1/2009 7:41:09 PM

Auto sales post best month of year but could slow

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j2HyJn2K3iZu_uusL4yqhoIbaCWwD9AEQU5G0

9/1/2009 7:50:35 PM

lol "could" slow...it would be more surprising if they didnt slow

9/1/2009 7:56:38 PM

^^

Aug 31, 2009
Car Dealers Still Waiting On 'Clunkers' Cash

Quote :

"CHICAGO (CBS) - Here's the figure: $2.878 billion. That's how much money the government owes car dealers for the 'Cash for Clunkers' program. More than $200 million of that is owed to dealers in Illinois and Indiana, so CBS 2's Mai Martinez checked with some of them to see how much money they've collected from Uncle Sam. Now that the popular program has ended, many dealerships are asking the federal government to 'show me the money.' 'Out of 142 deals they owe us for, we've gotten paid on seven,' Lou Tornabeni of Ettleson Hyundai said. 'We had 102 cash for clunkers,' Carm Scarpace of Westfield Ford said. 'We've been paid for one.' "

http://cbs2chicago.com/local/Cash.for.clunkers.2.1155470.html

After the Clunker Party, an Auto Sales Hangover
U.S. government rebates helped Ford, Honda, Hyundai, and others post dramatic gains. But some of those car sales were pulled from coming months

Quote :

"Cash for clunkers did its job in August, pushing car sales to levels not seen since last year. But the boom from the U.S. government's program has already worn off for automakers."

Quote :

"But the industry appears to be giving those gains back as the annualized rate has fallen to 8 million vehicles since Aug. 25, when the program stopped. 'August was the best month of the year, but it's possible that it could be followed by the worst month this year,' says Jeremy Anwyl, chief executive officer of Edmunds.com."

Quote :

"Rebates May Have Cannibalized Fall Sales Many carmakers are now in the same bind, Anwyl says, if not to the degree that Chrysler is. He says that with inventories so low, dealers won't want to negotiate as much on price. Automakers have also cut back on rebates, pushing car prices up until inventories are replenished in the next four to six weeks. Prices are up $500 to $1,000 a car, which will slow sales and add to the hangover from the clunker program."

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/sep2009/db2009091_796652.htm

[Edited on September 1, 2009 at 9:07 PM. Reason : .]

9/1/2009 9:05:22 PM

Quote :

"But some of those car sales were pulled from coming months"

That is shocking. Really.

9/1/2009 9:47:04 PM

so wait the cash for clunkers thing "stimulated" car sales? i dont get why a short stimulus boost like this would stimulate something.

9/1/2009 10:02:24 PM

Quote :

"so wait the cash for clunkers thing "stimulated" car sales? i dont get why a short stimulus boost like this would stimulate something."

Sweet mother of God, how brainless are you?

Quote :

"So, despite Cash for Clunkers, GM's sales were still off 20% from this time last year and Chrysler's were off 15%. Perhaps it is well past time to let these two dinosaurs die."

I'm against government intervention to keep these companies on life support, but your comment is just dumb. I suppose sales were up for every other car company?

(compared to last year)

9/2/2009 8:45:00 AM

New car sales slump after 'cash for clunkers' ends
September auto sales drop 23% from a year earlier. GM's plunge 45% and Chrysler's fall 43%; Honda and Toyota also report double-digit slides. Kia and Hyundai have double-digit increases.
October 2, 2009

Quote :

"New-car sales fell in September as the predicted post-'cash for clunkers' slump dragged the U.S. market down to its lowest sales rate in seven months."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-auto-sales2-2009oct02,0,1288887.story

10/7/2009 2:51:34 PM

Auto market Web site disputes the value of Cash for Clunkers program
Thu, Oct. 29, 2009

Quote :

"A feud has broken out between the Obama administration and a car-buying Web site about the effect of the Cash for Clunkers program on overall car sales. It began Wednesday when Edmunds.com put out an analysis of the popular summer stimulus program that provided $3,500 or $4,500 in rebates to consumers trading in old gas-guzzlers for new fuel-efficient vehicles. Nearly 690,000 vehicles were sold in the program, but Edmunds calculated that only 125,000 cars were incremental sales — sales spurred directly by the program. The rest, it said, would have been sold anyway. According to Edmunds, that put the average taxpayer cost for each incremental vehicle sold at $24,000."

Quote :

"Edmunds contends auto sales were beginning to recover before the program started in late July."

Quote :

"Edmunds said October would be the strongest month for auto sales this year. It projects the annualized sales rate for October to be 10.4 million and said the October sales figures would have been even stronger had the program not shifted a chunk of sales into July and August."

http://www.kansascity.com/business/story/1538731.html

10/30/2009 1:16:19 AM

'Clunker' data show pickup-for-pickup trades (AP) – 2 hours ago

Quote :

"WASHINGTON — Billed as a way for the government to put more fuel-efficient vehicles on highways, the $3 billion Cash for Clunkers program sold thousands of commuter-friendly cars, even hybrids, and more: Turns out, the most common deals replaced old Ford or Chevrolet pickups with new ones that got only marginally better gas mileage, according to an analysis of new federal data by The Associated Press. The single most common swap — which occurred more than 8,200 times — involved Ford F150 pickup owners who took advantage of a government rebate to trade their old trucks for new Ford F150s. They were 17 times more likely to buy a new F150 than, say, a Toyota Prius. The fuel economy for the new trucks ranged from 15 mpg to 17 mpg based on engine size and other factors, an improvement of just 1 mpg to 3 mpg over the clunkers."

Quote :

"In scores of deals, the government reported spending a total of $562,500 in rebates for new cars and trucks that got worse or the same mileage as the trade-ins — in apparent violation of the program's requirements. The government said it is investigating those reports and said in some cases they were probably entered incorrectly by dealers or based on outdated fuel economy figures."

Quote :

"Some deals raise eyebrows: _ In at least 145 cases, mostly involving trucks, the government reported consumers traded old vehicles that got better than or the same mileage as the new vehicle they purchased. The government said it was continuing to investigate. 'It's possible some quirky deal slipped through the cracks,' Anwyl said. _ In at least 15 deals in nine states, owners of large pickups cashed in old trucks for between $3,500 and $4,500 toward new Hummer H3 SUVs that got only 16 mpg. _ In at least 32 deals, drivers traded older vehicles for new large trucks — including versions of Toyota Tundras, GMC Sierras, Chevrolet Silverados, Dodge Rams and Ford F150 pickups — that got only 14 mpg."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i_J2CDMBIZhobnHhGIYFCzqvR52wD9BP8JI00

11/5/2009 6:09:46 AM

bump request

9/16/2010 10:46:51 PM

Was Cash for Clunkers a dud?
A new paper says that while the targeted stimulus program increased sales, those purchases would have occurred anyway.
Sept. 16, 2010

Quote :

"Here's the finding of the two economists: Yes, Cash for Clunkers did induce Americans to buy an additional 360,000 cars in July and August. But almost all of those purchases were pulled forward from the very near future."

Quote :

"In fact, the authors write, 'the effect of the program on auto purchases is almost completely reversed by as early as March 2010.' So Cash for Clunkers was a flash in the pan in an otherwise dreary industry."

Quote :

"By the way, many in the program were trading in Fords and other domestic cars for foreign vehicles -- opening up another can of worms as far as whether that helps or hurts the U.S. economy."

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/SaveonaCar/article.aspx?post=1805134>1=33017

9/17/2010 7:45:28 AM

^

Quote :

""By the way, many in the program were trading in Fords and other domestic cars for foreign vehicles -- opening up another can of worms as far as whether that helps or hurts the U.S. economy.""

Yea that seemed pretty obvious from the rankings above.

9/17/2010 8:19:44 AM

Cash for Clunkers: Fail

But by all means, let's keep the Stimulus Strategy going. Our Great Great Grandkids want some more debt.

9/17/2010 10:24:52 AM

^cash for clunkers was a huge success. It got 95% of the Obama bumper stickers off the road.

9/17/2010 9:57:15 PM

Quote :

"^cash for clunkers was a huge success. It got 95% of the Obama bumper stickers off the road."

That is pretty good. nice work

9/17/2010 10:44:42 PM

I'll play devil's advocate for a moment.

My parents, who are normally the type to run a car into the ground and then make it run for another 10,000 miles, both bought a brand-new car because of cash-for-clunkers. It was a reasonable enough choice. (For some reason editing is fucking up this part, so bear with me) If you have to spend X to buy a new car and Y to maintain an old one, and X is less than Y, you buy the new one.

Admittedly they both bought Toyotas, but based on current manufacturing patterns and the role of dealerships and parts sellers, this was not exactly a "fuck you" to American industry.




[Edited on September 18, 2010 at 4:51 AM. Reason : ]

9/18/2010 4:48:45 AM

So, GrumpyGOP, why DO your parents hate America?

9/18/2010 11:08:10 AM

^^ I suspect the trick was that manufacturers did not expand production in response. As such, all the stimulus buying did was eat into inventories and bid up prices. In effect, dealers raised prices in response to the lower inventories, driving customers away once the stimulus was over.

So, yes, your parents bought cars when they otherwise would not have. But in the months that followed, people that normally would have bought a new car at that time were driven away by the higher prices. Net effect: no greater sales, just higher prices and higher profits.

9/18/2010 12:07:09 PM

^^ I indicated nothing of the sort. Why are you opposed to examining the realities of what the Cash for Clunkers program accomplished or failed to accomplish?

9/18/2010 12:34:53 PM

I'm confused. Was that comment intended to be a reply to my post?

9/19/2010 2:26:02 PM

Quote :

"As such, all the stimulus buying did was eat into inventories and bid up prices. In effect, dealers raised prices in response to the lower inventories, driving customers away once the stimulus was over. "

This is one hell of an assumption is it not?

9/19/2010 9:19:33 PM