And that would be bad as opposed to now where our secondary still gets its ass handed to it?

10/13/2009 5:14:47 PM

Twista, if you're DBs are playing off the receivers 10 yards on EVERY single play then you are already conceding 5+ yards per pass play anyhow. We're saying that if you bump the receiver at the line of scrimmage and blitz the timing of the play is now thrown off, if executed properly.

Archer played 10 yards off the receivers the entire game. That was suicide.

10/13/2009 5:19:34 PM

I'd like to see a little more bump and run coverage but my point is blitzing isn't some magical cure-all like some people like to think...look at the good NFL teams that blitz a lot (blitz = send more pass rushers than the defensive line)...the Steelers, the Eagles, the Ravens...they all have great secondaries...in fact notice how much less effective the Steelers' blitzes are now that they don't have arguably the best player in the NFL in the defensive backfield

When you commit to rushing the passer with your front 4 and playing man or zone with the back 7, you're trying to prevent the big play...giving up yards is ok...points is not...aside from defensive playcalling, missing tackles is still a huge issue with our team

If you send corner blitzes, the receivers are going to be open...bump coverage doesn't matter if the cover corner is blitzing...if you instead play bump on the receivers and blitz either safeties or LBs, that means the offense has undefended backs or tight ends to pass too...its not as simple as just sending more pressure

the best way to prevent a west coast type offensive attack of runs and short passes is to have a solid secondary that is going to bend but not break...thats the type of defense we want to run...it just isnt very effective when you miss tons of tackles in the secondary

if we had Terrence or Andre Maddox or somebody roaming the secondary, I'm sure we'd blitz a little bit more...if we had a healthy Nate Irving to blitz sometimes and cover sometimes, I'm sure we'd blitz more...right now we just don't have the personnel

[Edited on October 13, 2009 at 5:26 PM. Reason : .]

10/13/2009 5:21:46 PM

I don't want to get into a Madden-esque type break down of different defensive schemes. I also don't believe blitzing on every down magically fixes our problems. I'm saying it's clear that our soft zone coverage that we run a majority of the time doesn't work. Archer's philosophy on D is clearly bend but don't break, but the shit has clearly broke (at least against two of the ACCs better QBs). We'll see what happens against BC. I imagine all hell will break loose if we get our shit kicked in there.

[Edited on October 13, 2009 at 5:30 PM. Reason : []

10/13/2009 5:29:21 PM

Quote :

"That applies to more than those two. I just don't feel like looking back at every player O'Brien has run off the team."

Levin Neal left because he lost his playing time. JC Neal, I shouldn't have counted. He graduated last year.
Javon Walker got a medical hardship
Jordan Delegal and Everett Lewis, I dunno what they did. Never made it, I think.
D Ellis - #1
Mangram and Palmer didn't make it in. Palmer's due to show up next year.
Akkem Cunningham transferred on his own.
Gary Grant - #2

Add the 4 guys we have left and that's the 14 DB's. I probably screwed up a number somewhere, I'm not tryna write a thesis on this.

10/13/2009 5:30:12 PM

^ I kinda like the Bill Parcel's approach O'Brien has regarding cutting the clownage (where it applies).

[Edited on October 13, 2009 at 5:33 PM. Reason : []

10/13/2009 5:33:31 PM

Yes, you are talking about the NFL where even shitty QBs know the plays and the pace of the game well enough that find an open man in the few seconds they have before a blitz gets to them. In college, the QB play (especially in the ACC) isn't anywhere near that level and blitzing makes them shit their pants 99% of the time.

Do you remember our defense under Herring? We brought the house damn near every play and we had legitimately one of the best defenses in the country. Our CBs weren't spectacular then, but they didn't have to be because opposing QBs didn't have 3 hours to find an open man.

10/13/2009 5:34:01 PM

Quote :

"Do you remember our defense under Herring? We brought the house damn near every play and we had legitimately one of the best defenses in the country. Our CBs weren't spectacular then, but they didn't have to be because opposing QBs didn't have 3 hours to find an open man."

Disagree.

Our entire defense that year was good. Hudson and Edwards were the starting CB's I think. Hudson made the NFL for a while.

10/13/2009 5:43:13 PM

If memory serves correctly, Hudson was suspended that year.

Furthermore, with that blitz heavy defense Herring utilized, the quarterbacks didn't have enough time to go through their reads. That's the thing, in college, and especially the ACC, there aren't many good quarterbacks who can exploit a blitz heavy defense.

10/13/2009 5:47:24 PM

all of that is still moot if an offense max protects (2 TE's and a RB) and if/when protection finally breaks you have 3 more potential receivers which is what we couldn't defend against.

if a QB doesn't lose his cool and is patient he'll find whatever weakness you have and ALL D's have weak spots on the field; its just whether the QB/Receivers find it.

Gary Grant: not sure why you guys are saying he's off the team, he's on the roster and has played (I thought i saw him on saturday #39). Maybe you guys are thinking of Jimmaul Simmons

[Edited on October 13, 2009 at 5:58 PM. Reason : a]

10/13/2009 5:53:24 PM

Quote :

"Yes, you are talking about the NFL where even shitty QBs know the plays and the pace of the game well enough that find an open man in the few seconds they have before a blitz gets to them. In college, the QB play (especially in the ACC) isn't anywhere near that level and blitzing makes them shit their pants 99% of the time. "

And veteran college QBs, like Skinner and Lewis, can make those reads, against shitty college defenses...they're not NFL QBs, but they're also not playing against NFL defenses

And I haven't even mentioned the extra risks of blitzing a QB who can make plays with his feet

Also, I'm not trying to act like I know it all...but if the offense we're going against is focusing on longer passes and isn't doing dink and dunk stuff, then yeah blitz some more...force the QB to find the back or tight end for the short pass...but when the offense is making a concerted effort to make quick short passes, blitzing is only going to hurt...we should've damn near dropped a DE into coverage and only rushed 3 to put an extra person into coverage...I wouldn't have minded seeing Willie Young as a spy

[Edited on October 13, 2009 at 6:31 PM. Reason : .]

10/13/2009 6:10:51 PM

Quote :

"Gary Grant: not sure why you guys are saying he's off the team, he's on the roster and has played (I thought i saw him on saturday #39). Maybe you guys are thinking of Jimmaul Simmons"

Yep. That's my bad. I knew I'd get something mixed up.

10/13/2009 7:50:27 PM

You guys are going way overboard with this fire O'brien shit.

Do you remember how terrible we were under Amato? We were a fucking joke for god's sake.

We lost with very good teams, good teams, and average teams. We never had a shitty roster a single season under that guy. All three of O'Brien's teams have been significantly less talented than any team Amato ever had. We would have gone 2-10 the past three years for god's sake.

O'Brien is righting the ship. Yes, we suck this year. I started that thread after the first game but it got deleted. The good news is, we'll be playing good football within the next week or two.

Our defense sucks cock and of course Archer needs to be let go. And he will be after the season, that's apparent. Next year we will be an all-around better football team and if RW stays we will be an ACC contender.

In the meantime suck up an average season and enjoy us hammering UNC again. Jesus, people.

10/13/2009 7:56:37 PM

hey, you're the one who made this thread in the first place (and the second place)

10/13/2009 8:00:10 PM

#1 I made the thread because I thought he was the reason for the halftime debacle. That is a legitimate beef. I did a 180 when I realized the refs dicked us in the mouth.

#2 Credibility means hey get your fucking act together. Losing to Duke isn't doing that. It's time for this University to fucking step up for once. We are allergic to winning.

#3 Come on, we're clearly not good this year which is disappointing. We have underachieved drastically this year but we clearly overachieved the past two seasons.

10/13/2009 8:07:58 PM

Quote :

"Disagree. Our entire defense that year was good. Hudson and Edwards were the starting CB's I think. Hudson made the NFL for a while."

Edwards did too. We had a TON of NFL players on that #1 defense in 2004.

DL - Mario Williams*, Manny Lawson*, John McCargo*, Herndon?
LBs - Pat Thomas*, Freddie Aughtry-Lindsay, Stephen Tulloch*, Oliver Hoyte*
CBs - Devonte Edwards*, Lamont Reid*, AJ Davis*, Jimmie Sutton
Ss- Andre Maddox*, Marcus Hudson*, Garland Heath, Graham?

*I count 11 players that spent some time in the league.

10/14/2009 3:58:33 AM

Quote :

"The weak before people were calling for Petercuskie to be fired because Cjaowski can't kick a touchback and we had all these Amato-esque penalties and lo and behold, we get a kickoff return for a touchdown and we had NO, ZERO penalties. Where is the return favor and acknowledgement of the coaches correcting something that they have control over??"

What's our average net kickoff yards against 1a opponents? Low 30s? Yeah, one kickoff ran back for a TD doesn't erase that.

10/14/2009 8:44:17 AM

^^tank tyler was a backup for that squad, as well as demarrio pressley

10/14/2009 8:54:55 AM

While I'm very concerned about some things I've seen this season on the stink, I'm far from the fire Tom bandwagon. Maybe some defense/special teams staff shakeups IF things don't improve. I still think it could be premature. These young guys just don't seem to get the cover 2 (I think it's positioning and adjusting to the defensive player, as well as pursuit and tackling even more than defensive calls).

^^
However, even though I typically ignore mambagrl nonsense, I couldn't let this pass (some of you seem confused). How about the TWO TURNOVERS that gave Duke the ball in scoring position because our blockers wouldn't get away from the punt? That bugs me a bit more than a block in the back or holding call.

10/14/2009 9:18:48 AM

^ the first one you can't fault Byers, he did exactly what he was supposed to do, he ran away from the ball and it went sideways and hit him.

The Owen Spencer touch: TOB said that on the punt before Spencer didn't block the whole play so Petercuskie chewed him out for not blocking the whole play and hence he blocked the guy all the way back to TJ. TOB said TJ should have stepped up and made the catch.

10/14/2009 10:44:29 AM

Quote :

"We never had a shitty roster a single season under that guy. All three of O'Brien's teams have been significantly less talented than any team Amato ever had."

Point Amato then. Do you not realize that getting talent on the team is solely the coach's duty? this isn't high school. it aint the nfl either.

Quote :

"The good news is, we'll be playing good football within the next week or two. "

Good news? When are you people going to realize that playing like shit half the season and playing to your potential the end of the season is not only a bad thing, its flat out UNACCEPTABLE.

If we were really not a good team then theres no way we could just "turn it on" at the end of the season each year. If a team isn't ready to play the entire season, its poor coaching. Piss poor coaching.

10/14/2009 11:13:13 AM

i remember when this place had good trolls, or at least better ones

10/14/2009 11:15:45 AM

Quote :

"Archer played 10 yards off the receivers the entire game. That was suicide."

He's been doing that since he's been here. Nothing new, and my biggest complaint with the guy.

10/14/2009 12:30:21 PM

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/voices/blogpost/6206020/

Maniscalco has it right. Folks need to calm down.

10/14/2009 12:34:27 PM

While I agree with him, there is one thing he does there that he pulls all the time, especially in the Canes post-game shows, that annoys the shit out of me. The whole take the opposing viewpoint and completely exaggerate it thing, like at the end where he says "If you think that N.C. State, UNC, Duke are going to play in the national championship game in three years of hiring a new head coach, you might want to think about where the programs were when the coaches arrived here."

No one here thinks we are going to play in the national championship game. We just think that we will be BEATING DUKE.

10/14/2009 12:45:00 PM

Quote :

"The Owen Spencer touch: TOB said that on the punt before Spencer didn't block the whole play so Petercuskie chewed him out for not blocking the whole play and hence he blocked the guy all the way back to TJ. TOB said TJ should have stepped up and made the catch."

more reason to fire that jackass Petercuskie

10/14/2009 1:01:11 PM

Quote :

"A caller to Tom O’Brien’s coach’s show this week had a rather unflattering suggestion for the N.C. State head coach, which is to pack his bags. Really? Is this where we are as sports fans?"

Does anyone remember what was said? I didn't listen to the show.

10/14/2009 1:11:51 PM

^ http://www.wralsportsfan.com/ncsu/audio/6205443/?id_related=3297567

If you can't listen, total redneck calls in and says, "pack yer bags, pack yer bags, we don't wantcha!"

10/14/2009 1:14:06 PM

^thx for the link

I feel bad, but that was kinda funny.

[Edited on October 14, 2009 at 1:17 PM. Reason : []

10/14/2009 1:15:58 PM

Probably the redneck moron who sits near me.

He's constantly saying things like: "This is the werst team i've seen in ma life" and "O'brien should be fired right here, right now" in his thick, thick southern drawl.

[Edited on October 14, 2009 at 1:35 PM. Reason : ]

10/14/2009 1:28:41 PM

that really pisses me off

10/14/2009 1:54:36 PM

I deem anyone with a strong southern accent to be borderline retarded, so this amuses me

10/14/2009 1:59:40 PM

who honestly at the beginning of the season saw all of this coming


i did not.

10/14/2009 2:17:13 PM

They played that clip this afternoon, but I wasn't aware it was TOB that was told to....absolutely ridiculous. I think Tom said something like "well alright" or something like that.

I'm not too upset with the Duke loss. Duke is not Duke anymore. They have always had talent, they just didn't have someone that could coach it. Now they do. Duke was a matchup nightmare for us, just like we were to UNC last year. Cutcliffe basically returned his entire roster with a 4 year QB who is good. We have a weak as hell pass defense (defense overall, but especially our secondary) so it was going to be difficult. Unfortunately, our offense couldn't get crap going at the end either.

What upsets me the most about this loss is the turnovers and subsequent gimme points in special teams. Unexcusable.

10/14/2009 4:14:12 PM

Quote :

"Point Amato then. Do you not realize that getting talent on the team is solely the coach's duty? this isn't high school. it aint the nfl either."

You are right, while Tom O'Brien was at BOSTON COLLEGE he should have been trying to steer kids to NC STATE.

Are you fucking retarded?

10/14/2009 6:00:34 PM

She stated she was related to Amato so most likely

10/14/2009 6:28:45 PM

Pretty sure he/she just meant he/she went to the same school as Amato.

10/14/2009 7:03:44 PM

Quote :

"We just think that we will be BEATING DUKE."

You know, I think this part is really the reason everyone is pissed. And everyone that is pissed b/c of this is an idiot. This isn't the same Duke team. Everyone keeps ignoring the fact that they also gave VT a serious run for their money. Attitude takes you a long way in any sport and the attitude around the ACC was that Duke stinks, we will beat them easily. And Duke's new attitude, is "oh yeah? well FUCK you guys."

With that said, it isn't time to throw in the towel yet. We still have a lot of weight to throw around in the Atlantic division. Winning our next three would likely put us in second place (no lower than 3rd). We aren't going to have the same level of troubles against Boston College or Maryland as we had against Duke. Florida State could be a problematic with Ponder, but we'll see.

10/14/2009 7:15:21 PM

I am so fucking sick of the "this isnt the same Duke" bullshit

You know what, maybe they are a little bit better than they were when they were literally the WORST team in Division IA for multiple years in a row. But they still aren't good. Or even average.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=292480150

10/14/2009 7:54:04 PM

^ Ok, I'll bite. Are you trying to tell me VT is only marginally better than Richmond? Its one game that Duke lost, and it was the first game. Additionally, Richmond is a scary team to play.

Pittsburgh lost to us and they're 5-1 now. One game doesn't define a team, and teams do tend to get better as the season progresses. If we want to say Duke is a bad team for losing to Richmond, then by the same logic Pittsburgh is a fucking terrible team.

I'm not saying Duke is an awesome team dude. But they're not going to be the ACC's doormat this year.

10/14/2009 8:06:26 PM

Quote :

"You know what, maybe they are a little bit better than they were when they were literally the WORST team in Division IA for multiple years in a row. But they still aren't good. Or even average. http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=292480150"

I know, all that 1-AA shiz and everything, but http://www.kiva.net/~jsagarin/sports/cfsend.htm

Richmond is apparently not a shitty team.

10/14/2009 8:06:47 PM

yeah even if they are a different team, it sucks they broke out of their 20 year slump against us.

10/14/2009 8:08:06 PM

What 20 year slump? The 25 year losing streak? Against us? How else could the break that other than in a game against us?

[Edited on October 14, 2009 at 8:11 PM. Reason : Maybe you weren't emphasizing "us" whatever]

10/14/2009 8:10:59 PM

Quote :

"What 20 year slump? The 25 year losing streak?"

No the fact that Duke football has had one winning season in the past 20 years. It sucks that all of a sudden they are some power house a lot of people are claiming now that they kicked our ass in Carter Finley.

10/14/2009 8:18:34 PM

Is the season over or something

How do they have a winning season

--

Who said they're a powerhouse? Lots of people are just acknowledging that they're much improved over the teams that went 0-for-season. People were saying that before the game, too, you know.

[Edited on October 14, 2009 at 8:21 PM. Reason : ]

10/14/2009 8:20:24 PM

Dude I was referring to their 1994 winning season. I bet you're a big Sid Lowe fan too aren't you?

^ SOME people don't think it is okay for a so called improved teams coming off of 20 years of being horrible to beat our team in the 3rd year of rebuilding. THat's my point. Nothing more to be read into that.

[Edited on October 14, 2009 at 8:23 PM. Reason : /]

10/14/2009 8:21:55 PM

Do you have a point or do you just work off hyperbole and assumption

10/14/2009 8:22:59 PM

see my edit in my last post for my point

All I'm saying is it's a bad loss. A real bad loss. Stop trying to sugar coat it.

[Edited on October 14, 2009 at 8:27 PM. Reason : []

10/14/2009 8:24:24 PM

It's not OK that we lost to Duke, it's not OK that they hosed us, but it's not like you can be fucking shocked by it either. Anyone looking at the game objectively a week ago saw plenty of ways Duke could win.

I'm not happy, no one should be happy, but don't act like Ted Roof just whooped our asses.

10/14/2009 8:30:02 PM

Quote :

"but it's not like you can be fucking shocked by it either."

I was thoroughly shocked. After getting the secondary torched by Skinner silly me thought we'd change some things up, try some new things. Boy was I wrong. If you weren't shocked by Duke blowing us out at Carter Finley then good for you.

10/14/2009 8:34:22 PM