^^ ive been doing well with a 2 void ray rush

5/10/2010 8:36:36 AM

^^ We're aiming to get into gold either tonight or tomorrow! Skills definitely improving!

10-12 Void rays w/ speed upgrades and any air upgrades will level a base in no time!

5/10/2010 10:02:42 AM

I personally think void rays are a tad bit overpowered. I think I've won like 8 out of 10 games with void ray rushing. An easy fix would be to make the attack level thing bump back to the first level when switching targets. Marines are supposed to be a counter, but you can just make your VR attack a building until it gets to that next level attack, then switch to the marines and it'll own them up.

5/10/2010 3:32:12 PM

Quote :

"I personally think void rays are a tad bit overpowered. I think I've won like 8 out of 10 games with void ray rushing"

That doesn't work in higher level leagues...I know this because I had to abandon void ray rushes once I started going up against gold platinum players (when we were in silver).

Also countering void ray rushes is pretty easy now. Stalkers + Phoenixes and carriers couldn't hurt.

They key is to scout early and often so you know what your opponent is doing with time enough to counter it. I still don't scout enough.

[Edited on May 10, 2010 at 4:22 PM. Reason : .]

5/10/2010 4:20:29 PM

Golovko and I rarely see VR rushes because we really put pressure on our opponents. The only way to get a couple of VR's in our base before we have anti-air is to not build anything and go straight for the VR's. If people do that we just mop them up with our initial assault.

5/10/2010 4:55:23 PM

You guys seem pretty knowledgeable. I think we should play sometime. My partner (coolio526, which is the gayest name ever) and I just finished placement matches and hit gold. I actually thought we were gonna make platinum since we 5-0'd the placements, but lower is probably better. Neither of us are actually very good. The only thing I've got going for me is decent macro.

I've played a pretty decent amount of games, and I've still not yet made a dark templar yet. Are they any good in this one? I've been told they aren't as useful simply because they cost so much.

But yeah, add me DOOMTRAIN.MLM and we'll play sometime.

5/10/2010 6:27:23 PM

Quote :

"I've played a pretty decent amount of games, and I've still not yet made a dark templar yet. Are they any good in this one? I've been told they aren't as useful simply because they cost so much."

I've just started using them in the last couple days. They do have their uses especially early on. They are harder to make useful against a good player but against a bad player you can almost only build dark templars lol. I took out an entire terran base and all his units with 3 DT's. What amazed me is he had an upgraded command center and never once thought of using it to reveal my units lol.

its good to have a dark templar or high templar in each unit group.

I'll add you next time I login tonight.

5/10/2010 6:38:55 PM

My ID is Golovko.yuri

5/10/2010 7:49:48 PM

bttt

less than a week left

5/12/2010 11:49:51 AM

as i rank up the VR rush works less and less often

5/12/2010 1:17:03 PM

Played a few games as Terran last night. Liking the quick cloaked banshee tactic! Worked 3/4 times

5/12/2010 1:25:14 PM

^what league are you in? That usually doesn't work higher up because as protoss you can get an observer really quickly (which i almost always do) with a bunch of stalkers.

Not sure about Zerg but also setting up two cannons behind your mineral fields is usually a good way to protect your economy from early attacks.

5/12/2010 2:40:58 PM

^ Silver, rank ~ 10. Almost everyone we played yesterday was platinum/gold.

It usually is used as a harassing strat, not all-in banshees. I'll build M&M til I get my first Starport, then attack w/ a few banshees after I build 2 or 3 then continue mixing M&M w/ tanks. The banshees are really only for mineral harassing expo harassing.

5/12/2010 3:04:47 PM

anyone else running the mac client and having problems when trying to exit the game?

i try to exit, and it just hangs at the title screen with no menu, but you can still hear the sound and move your cursor

5/12/2010 3:12:34 PM

^ Not sure about the Mac client, but the latest patch does this for Windows machines. It works in Windows if you Logout first, then quit instead of just straight exiting. Maybe that'll work on Macs?

5/12/2010 3:15:57 PM

Quote :

"anyone else running the mac client and having problems when trying to exit the game?"

I do, its also a PC problem since the latest wonderful patch from Blizzard!

cmd+option(alt)+esc will kill it.

Quote :

"^ Silver, rank ~ 10. Almost everyone we played yesterday was platinum/gold. It usually is used as a harassing strat, not all-in banshees. I'll build M&M til I get my first Starport, then attack w/ a few banshees after I build 2 or 3 then continue mixing M&M w/ tanks. The banshees are really only for mineral harassing expo harassing."

yeah, thats key...attacking your opponents economy and keeping him from expanding. Harder to do when you're up against double Terran and they wall themselves in lol (at least early game).

[Edited on May 12, 2010 at 3:28 PM. Reason : .]

5/12/2010 3:26:45 PM

^ Yeah, when we play against TP or TT and they start walling off their entire choke (forgot to mention I'm thinking of Coalition - I think that's the map name, or maps w/ really close naturals in general), we immediately try to get the front door contain w/ tanks and M&M/lots/lings while using banshees/VRs/mutas on the flanks early to whittle down econs. Usually it works well. At least until they get up tons of static D. But then they've sunk all those resources and we can keep cranking out stuff.

I've been surprised by how many Gold & Plats do the BIG wall off thing I just mentioned. Usually it has meant they're planning for heavy ground early and mid-game and heavy air late game.

I agree w/ the constant pressure comment.

[Edited on May 12, 2010 at 3:42 PM. Reason : against]

5/12/2010 3:37:35 PM

Ugh damn, another wipe! .... We were doing so much better!

http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=24702405565&sid=5000

5/12/2010 3:39:25 PM

^lames! we made it to top 20 in Gold 2v2...sigh.

Quote :

"I've been surprised by how many Gold & Plats do the BIG wall off thing I just mentioned. Usually it has meant they're planning for heavy ground early and mid-game and heavy air late game."

Last night we encountered 3-4 games in a row where the enemy protoss just rushed to our base with a probe and massed cannons. The first time it happened i didn't notice until too late so there was no point in playing. After that we were ready and wiped them out for easy wins.

5/12/2010 4:07:13 PM

I can't stand cannon rushers I keep an eye out for that early forge during my initial scout. If I see one warped in w/ a gateway warping after or none at all, I immediately check my base for the cannons!

5/12/2010 4:11:07 PM

yeah...i've learned to do that as well. I sometimes just set a probe on patrol through the dark corners of my base and just glance down at the mini-map for colored blocks that aren't me lol

5/12/2010 4:13:06 PM

Yeah I usually queue up my first depot builder to go scout after completing the depot/pylon. If we're against ZZ, I send an extra scout out to check for 6pool, which we're had pretty good success at stopping double 6 pool lately. When I play as Zerg (rarely), as much as I hate it, I can pull off a lame 6pool pretty well (at least so far). One problem I hit w/ that is: I usually rally my lings into their mineral line to get them on their way. But the rally is an attack-move rally. A few days ago I learned I need to highlight them and move them on their route to keep them from getting distracted from chasing enemy scouts all over the map Won't make that mistake again - it ruined my 6pool. Think we still won though.

Also, on those maps w/ the close naturals easy to defend (coalition and the fire-world one), I like putting a proxy pylon back behind the naturals. Sometimes, they can survive for 20 mins back there before anyone scouts them. Good for DTs

[Edited on May 12, 2010 at 4:19 PM. Reason : proxy]

5/12/2010 4:18:16 PM

Has anyone ever been "favored" themselves? (1v1 or 2v2?) I've noticed that in 2v2, my ally and I have never been "favored", but when we win vs. platinums I wonder if the other team's loading screen has themselves as "favored" ?

Also, anyone have a link on the beta end date? Someone said it's ending soon!

[Edited on May 12, 2010 at 4:27 PM. Reason : date]

5/12/2010 4:24:59 PM

good lord i am terrible at this game

i need to put pressure on my opponent early....after watching replays i see that where i was being tentative, if I tried to go ahead and attack their base I would be in a much better position. I think I just played too much Risk as a kid

5/12/2010 4:29:51 PM

^ that was my problem exactly. What helped me was continual scouting (as best you can). If you don't see any early warning signs (such as terran putting up a refinery before a supply depot/barracks), then go ahead and rally your production facilities right outside their base (or in it if you wanna hit early). But, remember to tell them to move their when they come out if you're doing something like a 6pool that relies on speed only. Most of the time I was losing whatever timing advantage I had by waiting for my crap to walk across the field to their base (obviously this is much worse for big maps - leads to proxies)!

5/12/2010 4:34:15 PM

^^^Azaka and I have never once been favored even playing in Gold...but some how we played a 'favored' opponent when we were in gold. I thought Platinum was the highest level right after gold?

Slightly favored = one league above
Favored = two leagues above

Quote :

"good lord i am terrible at this game i need to put pressure on my opponent early....after watching replays i see that where i was being tentative, if I tried to go ahead and attack their base I would be in a much better position. I think I just played too much Risk as a kid"

You should watch some replays of good players. Thats what I did and read up some build orders. Another thing that will help you win or lose especially in close games is having really good micro and using your units abilities to your advantage.

example: Sentries for Protoss, use their forcefield to your advantage in several ways. Against zerg early in game, you can trap your zealots and sentry in their mineral line by setting up forcefields on either exit which will keep Zergs zerglings from getting to you while you do some serious damage.

Another good use is on maps where your expansions are together and you have the narrow ramps...i block one player from coming down, then enter another players base and block his ramp as well...so it becomes 1v1.

[Edited on May 12, 2010 at 4:40 PM. Reason : ^]

5/12/2010 4:37:56 PM

Yeah I was wondering if the game ever tells you that you're favored. I still don't think the ranking system is quite accurate. Granted, we kinda screwed our placements, but the AMM is solid I think because our win ratio is right at 50% I think. But like 65/70 of our games have been gold/plat. I would think that would put us squarely in low gold or so. Maybe they'll patch the ranking system some.

Also, does anyone experience in-game lag (not sure how to describe it). I have to be really careful when selecting units in a balled-up clump for tasks. For example: If I wanna select an SCV moving near a moving pile of marine I have to a almost-subconsciously lead the SCV a little bit and click where it will be (a little in front of it). It gets super frustrating to click and click and click but the unit never selects

^ and you're right about the 1, 2 league for slightly favored and favored

[Edited on May 12, 2010 at 4:46 PM. Reason : league]

5/12/2010 4:43:34 PM

anyone know of any good sites for me to read up on build guides and whatnot?

i never really played SC1 competitively, so this is a whole new ballgame

fun as shit though, even when i get destroyed

5/12/2010 6:07:45 PM

Here is one forum post that has some good links/info for protoss

http://www.cyberneticpunks.com/protoss/6130-protoss-build-order-strategy-guide-learners-guide-starcraft-2-sc2.html


Watch some of the battle reports videos on blizzard too.

http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/games/videos/?v=sc2:battlereport3

5/12/2010 6:46:56 PM

^^ Try watching the talent on HD's and Husky's youtube channels. They're fairly young commentators and are pleasing to listen to:

http://www.youtube.com/user/HDstarcraft

http://www.youtube.com/user/HuskyStarcraft

For some reason I haven't gotten others' replays to work on my computer, so this is just as good for me!

If you wanna go more in-depth, check out some topics on TeamLiquid.net They're pretty hardcore there! I would stay away from the blizzard forums for advanced stuff, but that doesn't mean you won't find good advice there.

What race are you interested in particular for improving?

By the way: give it a year and teamliquid will have a ton of stuff prepared on Liquipedia

[Edited on May 12, 2010 at 11:49 PM. Reason : liquipedia]

5/12/2010 11:49:16 PM

Seconded for http://www.youtube.com/user/HDstarcraft

5/12/2010 11:55:31 PM

^ I've been watchin HD ever since he started. He's pretty good for your average amateur player I think. People say he's not good cuz he doesn't go in depth, but at this point, there's not really much depth to game analysis at all. At least not compared to what it will be 5 yrs from now.

Side note: HD and Husky both didn't look ANYTHING like what I pictured them when I first saw them in person on their vids.

HD's quick expo zerg basic build is a very standard build now:
I think it's
14 pool
15 hatch

then you can pretty much go any tech route you want w/ a good econ (for the sake of econ, not including rush effects and stuff). I prefer it while I tech to mutas.

GhenghisJohn: do you understand what it means when someone says a build order like:
6pool?

5/13/2010 12:03:55 AM

no, i pretty much am a newb

but i think im starting to figure some of it out. context clues and whatnot.

5/13/2010 12:57:41 AM

Well I'll give you some of my limited sc2 knowledge. The number is the "supply" count (X/200)

So: Like for a 6pool:

you build a spawning pool @ 6 supply (which you start with). that means you don't build any drones to start with, just save for the pool. build the pool w/ your first 200 minerals. then usually while the pool is building most people either build an overlord or an extra drone. I prefer the extra drone myself. You just wanna make sure you will have 3 larva ready to turn to lings as soon as the pool is up. Don't forget to have your lings go immediately to the enemy base. So, BOs only give you the buildings to make, not units. Then eventually you would build an overlord to keep from being supply blocked and when you have enough minerals, a queen to boost ling production alot w/ spawn larva.

In 1v1's this strat works fairly well on maps with small rush distances, maps w/o extra starting spots (just 1v1s), so you KNOW absolutely where the enemy will be. It doesn't work well against terrans on maps w/ tight chokes since most terrans wall off anyway. On maps with wider chokes it's ok against terran. It's good against zerg as long as the zerg didn't also 6pool, then it becomes a micro-fest. Just beat the queen out and any crawlers and you should have no problem killing lots of drones. It's best used to kill workers in the mineral line first. Skirt around any units, static D as best you can to get to the minerals. Be aware that if you're scouted early enough, any race (except maybe terran) can throw up static D in their line and pretty much blow your advantage of a 6pool.

On 2v2's, on the current maps there's just 4 starting points, so you always know where the enemy is. Most of the same stuff applies as w/ 1v1.

I don't endorse using this strat all the time, cuz it is cheese to me. Kind of lame, but a good, simple build order to try and nail down (and common - happens alot in 2v2 double 6 pool). If you like longer games try:

Ling+Muta (this is more what I like)

14 Pool
15 Hatch (Expansion @ natural)

I should have more to this BO, but I don't remember the rest of the numbers, so I'll spell it out:

Get all 4 extractors (not at once, but build up to it over a few mins). Use first 100 or so gas to upgrade to Lair, use second 100 gas to get speedling upgrade (first pool upgrade for lings). use next 150 gas or so to get the spire. All this time, just keep hammering away w/ lings. Once spire comes up go mutas and put them in the enemy mineral lines. Harass all day long. BUT, be warned, as most good players will eventually build static D behind their lines which can spell trouble for mutas. Sometimes it's better to keep them piled up just out of sight of the enemy base. A bigger attack can do more than tiny nibbles when they put up static D you'll have to change it up.

That's my preferred zerg build, and it's pretty effective. It is weak against 6 pools and early rushes. Strong midgame tactic.

Hope that helps!

5/13/2010 8:41:52 AM

Like sprocket said, it's essential to learn build orders and openings, but it is also absolutely critical for you to scout your opponent. Knowing what your opponent's opening is will let you adapt your opening to counter it.

For instance, a standard opening for protoss is 1 gate to cybercore to robo + 1 or 2 more gateways. So, if I scout and see a gateway followed by a cybercore, then I know he's just going to do a standard or similar to standard play. However, if I scout and see 2 gate with no cybercore, then I know he's opening with a rush.

So, make sure to scout, but also make sure to know what you're looking for. The latter is the most important part.

5/13/2010 11:25:05 AM

Played Zerg yesterday for the first time ever and wow...my new favorite race! haha...so easy to steamroll as zerg.

[Edited on May 13, 2010 at 11:25 AM. Reason : .]

5/13/2010 11:25:18 AM

Been playing SC for way to long and am liking how this is just the same thing basically with better graphics. Pretty much all my old strats work and it has just been about filtering in the new features and units.

Zerg - Early expand to mass mutas or hydras.. maybe an early ling rush just to try to catch someone and buy time for the expand.
Toss - Mass Gates.. carriers if game goes longer or robotics. templar drop as well. But getting 6-8 gates and just pumping units with an expand or 2 always works well.
Terran - Block choke, go metal and drop ledges, backsides, and tank leap(probably what I like doing best out of all races). Rarely do I ever make anything from a barracks unless I just feel like having fun and changing it up.

When I first started playing I use to try to follow specific build orders but over time I think it is less important to do something exactly the same and more important to just scout and react quickly instead of being robotic about things. The best advice I ever got was to basically never quit making worker units for pretty much the entire game... as long as I was doing that build order never seemed to matter as much.

5/13/2010 12:11:48 PM

Patch out!

Quote :

"StarCraft II Beta - Patch 12 (version 0.14.0.15343) StarCraft II Beta -- Patch 12 (version 0.14.0.15343) The latest patch notes can always be found on our StarCraft II Beta General Discussion forum. Balance Changes PROTOSS Forge Build time increased from 35 to 45. Life and shield values decreased from 550/550 to 400/400. Mothership Vortex now removes Force Fields within its area of effect. TERRAN Thor Radius decreased from 1.375 to 0.8125. Model size reduced to match new radius. ZERG Roach Supply count increased from 1 to 2. User Interface Several Hotkey changes have been made (German client only). Bug Fixes Fixed a crash which sometimes occurred when quitting the program."

[Edited on May 13, 2010 at 6:37 PM. Reason : .]

5/13/2010 6:37:38 PM

LOL no VR nerf?

[Edited on May 13, 2010 at 8:27 PM. Reason : AND another roach nerf? good one blizzard.]

5/13/2010 8:26:48 PM

Yeah, I don't think the roaches needed another nerf. And, honestly, after playing some more, I don't think the VRs are that overpowered. I mean, a simple group of stalkers or marines or hydras (there's actually a game where TLO just used queens to take out whitera's vr rush) will do the trick. I guess they really only work on people that don't scout it.

5/14/2010 12:20:26 AM

The roach nerf essentially killed their usefulness for me. They never seemed like they were overly powerful to me; marauders in any numbers wreck them, their slow speed (before upgrade) and lower range makes them easily kitable by stalkers and immortals destroy them. They could wreck an entire army of zealots or marines but that's what they needed to do. If you went into a zergs base with 20 marines or 10 zealots and got owned by 12 roaches that was your fault for not scouting, not the roaches for being op.

It takes way too long and way too much resources to build them in any number right now. You are much better served by going lings straight to mutas or hydras.

5/14/2010 1:22:37 AM

right so im doing okay, im mostly playing terran, and i do okay against zerg and terran,

but i get fucking raped by protoss. fucking void rays.

anyone have any general outline suggestions for terran v. protoss (and taking down those VRs?). the internets suggest a bunch of marines with weapons upgrades can take them on, but in my experience i get bumjacked.

still super fun though

5/15/2010 12:38:16 PM

^ Marines are probably the simplest units to throw against the void rays, but you need a good number of them to do anything. Place your buildings carefully. Try to get some turrets - easier if you're going infantry build and have an E. Bay already. Thors work well, but they're a whole different tech route. Vikings will mop them up too, just make sure you're microing onto each unit at a time and rotating your most damaged units to the back!

5/15/2010 2:17:28 PM

Are you having problems with a 1-3 VR rush or are you talking about a massed army? VR's are definitely weakest against Terran. If you are getting taken out by a quick VR rush then your problem is most likely scouting and lack of pressure. 1 missile turrent and 10 marines will destroy a couple of VR's. Someone who is VR rushing is only going to have a few zealots in their base because they are saving up gas for their stargate, the VRs and possibly a fleet beacon for the speed upgrade. A handful of marines micro'd properly can easily take out any number of zealots (without charge). Go into his base early, take out his couple of zealots and take out the pylon on the stargate (or the gate itself it it's powered by more than 2) and get your gg.

If you are getting killed by a massed army of them then scouting and pressure would still be your biggest way to improve. If you see lots of VR's coming out mass Vikings and Marines (with stimpack and hp upgrade) with Medivacs and use a couple of cloaked banshees to harass their mineral line. Also don't let them expand. You should be able to have a sizable army before the first VR is even out. Going VR rush or even massing them puts them at a large army disadvantage early on and you need to take advantage of that.

If you want to post some replays we can take a look at them and give you better advice. Without actually seeing you play I'm just guessing at what you are doing wrong.

5/15/2010 2:35:24 PM

^^^ Another generic tip:

If you are trying a counterattack on the enemy base, hit the pylons or depots first. Usually, it'll put them under supply and buy you some time!

5/15/2010 8:36:20 PM

6th in 2v2 Gold with Azaka

Switched to zerg from protoss which seemed to have done the trick quite well.

5/16/2010 4:03:22 AM

hey hey just got a beta invite

5/16/2010 7:00:50 PM

LOL you have like 12 hours to play before beta is over.

5/16/2010 7:37:46 PM

^ I've been hearing that, do you have a source link?

5/16/2010 10:25:23 PM

no, but i am starting to doubt its authenticity.

5/16/2010 10:31:14 PM