49.8% out of my upcoming paycheck and I don't even approach a 6-figure salary.

4/14/2010 4:54:59 PM

Why do you hate America?

4/14/2010 5:01:46 PM

^^ There's a good chance that you might need to do more than complain about it. A percentage statistic without any context is about as meaningless as you can get.

4/14/2010 5:15:25 PM

Taxes suck, but the fact that if you owe the government and want to pay by credit card, the fact that there's a 2% "convenience fee" is complete bullshit.

4/14/2010 5:32:10 PM

Credit processing merchants need welfare too. Why do you hate America?

4/14/2010 6:15:19 PM

I'm assuming you know the reason why there is a fee, but if you don't, it's because they are passing on the fee that they are charged by credit card companies.

Otherwise it would actually cost the government money when you pay with a card. Businesses don't charge the extra fee because you'd get pissed about paying more without cash (gas stations sometimes still give a cash discount), but they all have to pay a fee as well.

4/14/2010 6:44:18 PM

The credit card companies should provide their services free as a favor to the government, see? You know, as a way of paying their respect for the privilege of operating in this side of town and enjoying continued protection and other favors, see? It's all about respect and returning favors when the time comes, see? We wouldn't want Wilmington, Delaware to have a little accident and catch fire, now would we? See?

4/14/2010 7:21:00 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/15/us/politics/15poll.html?pagewanted=1
Poll Finds Tea Party Backers Wealthier and More Educated

Quote :

"The 18 percent of Americans who identify themselves as Tea Party supporters … tend to be older than Republicans generally ... despite their allusions to Revolutionary War-era tax protesters, most describe the amount they paid in taxes this year as “fair.” … More than half say the policies of the administration favor the poor, and 25 percent, compared with 11 percent of the general public, think that the administration favors blacks over whites. … Tea Party supporters are also more likely than most Americans to believe, mistakenly, that the president has increased taxes for most Americans. … “I just feel he’s getting away from what America is,” said Kathy Mayhugh, 67, a retired medical transcriber in Jacksonville. “He’s a socialist. And to tell you the truth I think he’s a Muslim and trying to head us in that direction, I don’t care what he says. He’s been in office over a year and can’t find a church to go to. That doesn’t say much for him.” … And nearly three quarters said they would prefer smaller government even if it means spending on domestic programs would be cut. But in follow up interviews, people said did not want to cut Medicare or Social Security — the biggest domestic programs – suggesting instead a focus on “waste.” “I do believe we are responsible for the widow and the orphan,” said Richard Gilbert, a 72 year old retired teacher. “But I think there is a welfare class that lives for having children and receiving payment from the government for having those children. They have no incentive to do any better because they have been conditioned into it.” Others defended being on Social Security while fighting big government by saying they had paid into the system, so deserved the benefits. Others could not explain the contradiction. “I guess I want smaller government and my Social Security,” said Jodine White, 62, of Rocklin, Calif. “I didn’t look at it from the perspective of losing things I need. I think I’ve changed my mind.” "

4/14/2010 7:36:06 PM

Quote :

"most describe the amount they paid in taxes this year as “fair.” … "

I saw that poll the other day, something like 51% say thier share of taxes is fair, however 47% pay nothing or get a paycheck from the govt. So take it for what its worth. We seem to be at a tipping point, imo.

So the teaparty people are actually successful? I thought they were all idiot, racist, rednecks. Thanks for the link.

And Im all for spending cuts in medicaid, medicare, and SS. Its going to be a neccsity in the near future. However, they will continue to punish those who are succesfull or responsible and subsidize those who arent.

4/15/2010 10:37:25 AM

Quote :

"I saw that poll the other day, something like 51% say thier share of taxes is fair, however 47% pay nothing or get a paycheck from the govt. So take it for what its worth. We seem to be at a tipping point, imo."

So you want us to be taxed more?

4/15/2010 6:29:23 PM

i paid $3k to the fed and $3k to NC.

i for one would pay NC double that if they would not layoff teachers

4/15/2010 7:00:25 PM

Kris I would rather they expand the tax base instead of keep putting more of the burden on fewer people. Its the only way to stop the growth of govt is if people actually have to pay for what they want. Instead people want more things, as long as they dont have to pay for it.

Quote :

"i for one would pay NC double that if they would not layoff teachers"

You can pay double my friend. Just gotta write the check.

4/15/2010 7:51:46 PM

Quote :

"So the teaparty people are actually successful? I thought they were all idiot, racist, rednecks. Thanks for the link. "

Being rich doesn’t mean you’re not racist or a redneck (being “educated” doesn’t mean you’re actually intelligent either). And at least 1/4 of them are either racist or a redneck.

4/15/2010 7:54:58 PM

Quote :

"And at least 1/4 of them are either racist or a redneck. "

Source? Did you wipe before you pulled that out?

4/15/2010 7:59:29 PM

Quote :

"Kris I would rather they expand the tax base instead of keep putting more of the burden on fewer people. Its the only way to stop the growth of govt is if people actually have to pay for what they want."

How are those two connected?

4/15/2010 8:36:52 PM

^^

Quote :

"and 25 percent, compared with 11 percent of the general public, think that the administration favors blacks over whites. "

4/15/2010 9:32:53 PM

People on this board often doubt that the rich work less when tax rates are high. I often change the subject, because what I know does not support the conclusion. I always believed that in the face of high taxes, people change what they do, to other forms of work that avoids taxation, rather than work absolutely less. Well, I was wrong, and we have the evidence to prove it. It turns out, some workers are so specialized that there is no other productive work they can do, and when that work is public and therefore cannot engage in tax avoidance, they simply work less.

Quote :

"The 1950s was the era of the 90 percent top marginal tax rate, and by the end of that decade live gate receipts for top championship fights were supplemented by the proceeds from closed circuit telecasts to movie theaters. A second fight in one tax year would yield very little additional income, hardly worth the risk of losing the title. And so, the three fights between Floyd Patterson and Ingemar Johansson stretched over three years (1959-1961); the two between Patterson and Sonny Liston over two years (1962-1963), as was also true for the two bouts between Liston and Cassius Clay (Muhammad Ali) (1964-1965). Then, the Tax Reform Act of 1964 cut the top marginal tax rate to 70 percent effective in 1965. The result: two heavyweight title fights in 1965, and five in 1966. You can look it up."

http://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2010/04/how-taxes-changed-boxing/38949/

[Edited on April 16, 2010 at 9:28 AM. Reason : .,.]

4/16/2010 9:26:34 AM

Put it this way: It's in the richest 5%'s best interest to convince you that taxing them a lot is bad, isn't it?

4/16/2010 9:28:53 AM

Quote :

"they simply work less"

That's quite a jump just based off of an article about taxes and boxing.

I'd imagine most people who work don't risk much by going to work. This is different for boxers as mentioned in your article:
"A second fight in one tax year would yield very little additional income, hardly worth the risk of losing the title."

The fact is that people don't value thier time not working at the same rate as it is taxed on income.

You'll have to look for your cliched freakinomics elsewhere.

4/16/2010 10:15:11 AM

The assertion is that some workers work less when taxes are higher, this article proves this to be true. Clearly, some workers run risks by going to work, be it life, limb, or reputation, and therefore increases in taxation will cause these workers on the margin to work less.

4/16/2010 11:07:08 AM

But you know that correlation doesn’t mean causation.

It could be that under the higher tax rates, people were less likely to pay to watch more than a fight or 2 a year, and the higher disposable income after the rate change meant the organizers would put on more fights.

The fighters themselves are animals, their handlers make the decisions for them, on the basis of making as much $$$ as possible.

4/16/2010 11:12:25 AM

Obama: Tea Partiers Should Thank Me for Tax Breaks


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20002677-503544.html

4/16/2010 12:28:31 PM

Ahahahaha

4/16/2010 12:38:03 PM

^^CNN is running that story too.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/04/16/obama-says-tea-partiers-owe-him-a-thank-you/?fbid=CeukDESvFZn

Quote :

"Tea Party activists marked Tax Day with a high-profile rally in Washington, DC, and other protests across the country, but President Obama says the anti-tax movement actually owes him a thank you. Speaking at a Democratic fundraiser in Miami Thursday night, the president touted tax cuts in the stimulus measure and the fact that the tax rate has not been increased for those making less than $250,000 a year. "So I've been amused in recent days by these people having rallies," he told the crowd at the fundraiser to laughter. "I think they should be saying thank you." Members of the crowd, who paid between $250 to $1,250 to attend the event, immediately rose to their feet and replied "Thank You!" The White House noted Thursday that federal taxes were reduced by $173 billion in 2009 and said that the average tax refund is about 10 percent higher than last year."

4/16/2010 3:36:29 PM

Quote :

"The assertion is that some workers work less when taxes are higher, this article proves this to be true."

Sure, but you've expanded it to include all workers, which is not in any way, true. I could just as well find some small theoretical group who works more when taxes are higher, it doesn't prove anything.

4/16/2010 4:50:13 PM

Obama, like many of his supporters, act and think like 10 yr olds. They cant look further than 2-3 days ahead.

Yes, the people concerned with taxes should thank the man for the tax breaks, and that plays well for this supporters. But any idiot can see that taxes wont remain low as this idiot has brought new meaning to deficit spending. Also while decreasing the tax base.

But yeah, he really got those idiot tea partiers. good lord people.

I hope he keeps talking. I really thought there was no way he could lose in 2012, but im starting to have hope.

4/16/2010 6:25:43 PM

Quote :

"But any idiot can see that taxes wont remain low as this idiot has brought new meaning to deficit spending"

Deficit spending is the right thing to do in a recession.

Quote :

"But yeah, he really got those idiot tea partiers. good lord people."

TEA STANDS FOR TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY. IF HE HAD RAISED TAXES YOU'D BE BITCHING ABOUT THAT.

4/16/2010 6:37:29 PM

Which is going to come Kris. Its a certainty, its already on the books and STILL doesnt outpace spending.

And I disagree about deficit spending is the thing to do, but there is no sense in arguing with you.

•Fiscal Responsibility
•Constitutionally Limited Government
•Free Markets

Those are the points they tea party is pressing, so you can understand thier anger.

[Edited on April 16, 2010 at 6:49 PM. Reason : .]

4/16/2010 6:47:40 PM

On their site they don't say anything about those three:

Illegal Aliens Are illegal.
Pro-Domestic Employment Is Indispensable.
Stronger Military Is Essential.
Special Interests Eliminated.
Gun Ownership Is Sacred.
Government Must Be Downsized.
National Budget Must Be Balanced.
Deficit Spending Will End.
Bail-out And Stimulus Plans Are Illegal.
Reduce Personal Income Taxes A Must.
Reduce Business Income Taxes Is Mandatory.
Political Offices Available To Average Citizens.
Intrusive Government Stopped.
English Only Is Required.
Traditional Family Values Are Encouraged.
http://teaparty.org/action.html

4/16/2010 7:12:37 PM

Yeah, out of this movement there are several different groups it seems.

Here is the one I was referencing, but what you listed is basically the same thing Kris.(other than english, and what seems to be anti-gay marriage)

http://www.teapartypatriots.org/Mission.aspx

4/16/2010 7:16:08 PM

I quoted the original Tea party, you probably should have specified if you wanted a different one. Nonetheless, it has more about nationalism, protectionism, militarism, and racism than it has about the constitution, spending, and free markets.

4/16/2010 7:27:14 PM

again, the only differences from the list I posted and yours is the bit about english and what I assume is anti gay marriage. The rest are either part of the consititution or laws already, lower the size of govt and spending, and help us compete in the global market. Maybe you see something different.

4/16/2010 7:37:06 PM

The tea party is odd...

some elements have a distinctly more libertarian spin on them with most of the stress on financial/economic issues, who have left the Republican party because they think the GOP doesn't follow these things well enough...

but other elements behave like an additional outlet for neo-cons, racists, and Christian fundamentalists, acting like little more than a second GOP, given how much the GOP has been pandering to their crazy-person wing lately. These elements seem like the main force of the party, especially given much of what's coming from its "leadership" (Sarah Palin speeches and whatnot).

[Edited on April 16, 2010 at 7:39 PM. Reason : .]

4/16/2010 7:38:40 PM

I see the first five

4/16/2010 7:38:41 PM

yes there seems to be some infighting on which direction people want to go with this thing.

I feel this will help push more budget hawks into the GOP and hopefully gets rid of those RINOs. I mean they had control for a long time and did very little to control spending, so a bunch of people arent happy with the GOP, but are PISSED at what we have now and where we are heading, I know I am. I just want a smaller govt that treats everyone equally, doesnt spend more than it takes in, protects its borders and its citizens. Helping you pay for your house, car, cellphone, viagra, braces, gas.... we can ditch those.

Kris, the only ones on your list I can disagree with is the antigay marriage, and MAYBE the english thing. The rest seem like the right thing to do.

[Edited on April 16, 2010 at 7:52 PM. Reason : .]

4/16/2010 7:51:33 PM

Quote :

"Deficit spending is the right thing to do in a recession."

I'll believe this when someone gives me a single demonstrable instance of it working.


The reasons Keynes is so adored is because it gives political powers an "intellectual" excuse to confiscate and redistribute wealth in such a manner that perpetuates their tenure in office.


We've tried Keynesian spending in earnest twice in the last 100 years. Both times have been the worst and most protracted economic downturns in that time-period.

4/17/2010 8:31:31 AM

Not true. we've tried Keynesian spending several times this century. Think back to stagflation for the instance you forgot.

The only mechanism for deficit spending to help during a recession is for money creation as the federal reserve prints money to keep treasury rates low. But there is nothing stopping the federal reserve from just printing the same quantity of money and buying everything not nailed down, we don't need to create more treasury notes for the federal reserve to buy, they can just buy anything else.

So, no, deficit spending is at best a wash during a recession, but most likely makes the recession far worse by distorting labor and capital markets and diverting resources to dead-weight loss government projects.

4/17/2010 10:13:49 AM

Quote :

"We've tried Keynesian spending in earnest twice in the last 100 years. Both times have been the worst and most protracted economic downturns in that time-period."

You are counting this one as the second?

4/17/2010 10:16:06 AM

Quote :

"Kris, the only ones on your list I can disagree with is the antigay marriage, and MAYBE the english thing. The rest seem like the right thing to do."

The point is that they are not focused on the thing you said they are, I don't really care if you don't have a problem with racism and protectionism.

Quote :

"I'll believe this when someone gives me a single demonstrable instance of it working."

That's impossible for me to prove and impossible for you to disprove. I could point to instances of growth and you'll just as well claim that something else was responsible.

Quote :

"We've tried Keynesian spending"

Deficit spending wasn't just advocated by Keynes, Friedman advocated it in instances such as these as well.

4/17/2010 11:10:06 AM

Quote :

"Friedman advocated it in instances such as these as well"

Facts not in evidence.

4/17/2010 11:37:50 AM