Its not meant to be comprehensive, just a helpful tool for evaluating a player's worth beyond the typical box score numbers.

3/2/2011 11:26:29 AM

TBDV

3/2/2011 12:17:28 PM

I happen to be an expert on sports, statistics, correlation, economics, etc so this is a good time for me to weigh in.

+/- has been ruled out as an effective metric for the NBA.

See: Every study.

Example: Durant's 2nd year in the league when he had one of the lowest +/- ratings in the league because he led the league in minutes and often found himself playing with scrubs each night.

Conclusion: Correlation or causation? Individual +/- had almost no explanatory use when modeling player movement the following season.


College Basketball:
As far as I know there hasn't been an extensive study done on college basketball that validates or invalidates +/-

The games are significantly shorter (40 vs 48) and more infrequent (~35 vs 82). Also, the player movement from year to year (graduation, transfers, etc) is much more variable. This leads me to believe that any study will have inadequate data to control for randomness.

Therefore, no accurate conclusions can be made by +/- at the collegiate level with any statistical level of significance.




However, if you have any idea what's going on in a basketball game an evaluation can be made quite easily.

CJ Leslie looks like piss. He plays zero defense and doesnt score or generate offense, particularly based off the amount of possessions he uses.

Tracy Smith has reverted to a below average defender and this season decided to stop passing which is why his assists and FG% dropped like a rock.

Ryan Harrow is a future star. His assist rate is top notch. Unfortunately he's one of the worst shooting PG's in the last 20 years and he can't stay in front of a parked car. He is quite possibly the rawest pure point guard with potential to be a star that I've ever seen.


Look no further than their -25 last night and their -25 in the GT game (that we won) to see that these are legitimate issues.

On the other hand you have Vandenburg shooting 100% on limited possessions and altering or blocking near every shot on each possession. And Javi Gonzalez who has just been on fire with jumpers, penetration, and alley oops over the last three games.

CJ Williams is a two way player. He generates points off of putbacks, wide open shots, and finishes when a defense breaks down. On the defensive end he contests shots, grabs loose balls/rebounds, and generally prevents layups/dunks.


We need not just a new coach and fanbase. We need objective people to right this ship. No more Wolfpack Loyalists, Lowe Haters, Sendek Reminisiciers.


We need a fucking RABID WOLFPACK NATION.

3/2/2011 9:20:34 PM

You really like overexaggerating dont you?

Wasnt it you who said javi is the best pg we have had since corchiani?

Harrow isnt a great shooter, but hes better than kendall marshall and several, maybe hundreds, of other pgs who have played over the last 20 years

[Edited on March 2, 2011 at 9:31 PM. Reason : Crazy talk]

3/2/2011 9:29:12 PM

I just don't get how harrow is good at the line, but a terrible 3-pt shooter?

Does he not have the strength to shoot that far?

3/2/2011 9:34:42 PM

i used to wonder that about muggsy bogues, but i was a kid when i wondered that

didnt really think of him as a terrible distance shooter, but just never saw him shoot a lot of 3s

[Edited on March 2, 2011 at 9:36 PM. Reason : ]

3/2/2011 9:35:56 PM

Quote :

"Harrow isnt a great shooter, but hes better than kendall marshall and several, maybe hundreds, of other pgs who have played over the last 20 years "

no he absolutely is not

you guys really need to drop that agenda just because you thought harrow was a better recruit due to some youtube videos

marshall is a fine PG who can actually occasionally knock down a wide open 3 pointer. harrow with a wide open shot will stand there like an idiot for a second, then dribble once and pass

3/2/2011 11:05:18 PM

Quote :

"Harrow isnt a great shooter, but hes better than kendall marshall and several, maybe hundreds, of other pgs who have played over the last 20 years "

Marshall shoots 16% better than Harrow from behind the arc. 16%!

His free throw percentage makes his three-point percentage baffling.

3/2/2011 11:14:39 PM

Fucking Tracy Smith and fucking CJ Leslie. They both wanted no part of perimeter defense. I don't know why they were put in the game at the end. Harrow needed to stay out, too.

3/3/2011 12:12:38 AM

are you fucking insane?

What PG's can you name in the last 20 years that Harrow is a better shooter than?

Doug Gottlieb?

Who else you got?


Without even lookign at the numbers I guarantee Kendall Marshall shoots between 35-45% from 3's. Because if he shot lower I'd know about it and if he shot higher Id know about it.

Get the fuck out of here idiotfest.

3/3/2011 12:19:36 AM

ib BigEgo busts out chris warren

[Edited on March 3, 2011 at 12:44 AM. Reason : warren has shot solid % from three 3 out of 4 years on a high volume btw]

3/3/2011 12:42:36 AM

Quote :

"Milkboner: hey now you got some dough to put on Vandy +8? TreeTwista10: I agree that Vandenberg's efficiency rating will be at +8 or better"

Quote :

"Vandenberg +11"

3/3/2011 1:22:49 AM

It's not like this info is difficult to get:

Kendal Marshall
SEASON TEAM MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF FG% FT% 3P% PPS
2010-2011 UNC 21.7 5.6 1.8 5.4 2.2 2.42 1.1 .0 1.1 .455 .695 .375 1.35

Ryan Harrow
SEASON TEAM MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF FG% FT% 3P% PPS
2010-2011 NCST 23.0 9.4 1.7 3.3 1.7 2.00 .8 .1 1.4 .389 .880 .200 1.11


[Edited on March 3, 2011 at 9:19 AM. Reason : .]

3/3/2011 9:17:47 AM