feels appropriate

2/12/2015 10:56:39 AM

I would be buying the whole youth argument if Gott didn't have his players transfer out every season.

Last season was supposed to be rebuilding into this one. I firmly believe this team can be Top 4 next season with no transfers out, henderson coming in and Turner and Lee graduating of course.

Look for Barber and the twins to improve even more. Abu should be a beast next year too.

But if 1 or more the big men, or a Martin transfers, its back to square one

[Edited on February 12, 2015 at 11:17 AM. Reason : ]

2/12/2015 11:17:06 AM

Quote :

"I firmly believe this team can be Top 4 next season with no transfers out"

Certainly you mean in the ACC right?

2/12/2015 11:18:23 AM

Quote :

"If we were getting worse, we wouldn't have taken ND to overtime, and we would have gotten blown out by UVA."

That's true. If we were getting worse, we probably would have sandwiched a blowout to Clemson in there. My mistake.

Thank goodness we aren't a hail mary away from a 6 game losing streak.

2/12/2015 11:19:00 AM

Quote :

" So a team with a couple 5 star rated players and core of 4 star recruits should be losing to teams like Wofford, Clemson, Purdue, and Wake and needing heroics to beat GT? That is bullshit. "

Almost every team in the ACC is loaded with 4-star recruits. I think we only have one 5-star player, Cat. He's also our only McD All-American. IIRC, both Duke and UNC have seven.

That said, we shouldn't lose to Wofford. The other games aren't mind-boggling though. Clemson should have beat ND the other night. Wake beat Miami last night. Purdue has a better record than us playing in an equally tough conference.

The point is that we're an average basketball team, like most thought we would be this year.

2/12/2015 11:21:18 AM

^ Lacy was a 5 star recruit.

Our talent level is higher than 2/3rds of the ACC. We SHOULD be better than we are. Other than Cat, no one on the team is showing much improvement as the season progresses or even from last year for our returners. That is on Gott IMO. Look at UVA, Bennett is doing an amazing job developing his guys.

2/12/2015 11:38:02 AM

it also doesn't help that we've seen how great we are capable of playing a couple of times this season

it's there, they have just absolutely lost it

this was the most important stretch of the season and we have absolutely blown it.

2/12/2015 11:43:32 AM

Quote :

"We're young and inconsistent. "

UVA has one senior. Duke starts multiple freshmen. We are not even close to young. In today's college bball, we are old if anything.

Quote :

"We're exactly where we should be with a roster this young and the strength of our schedule. Christ, if anything we've over-performed. "

This is absolute bullshit. We have a roster loaded with talented recruits.

Quote :

"Our talent level is higher than 2/3rds of the ACC."

Gott has brought in what 3/4 top 25 classes? Were they all top 25? You cannot be serious saying talent is an issue.

[Edited on February 12, 2015 at 11:47 AM. Reason : We have 7 top 100 recruits plus a LSU starting transfer and a JUCO AA]

2/12/2015 11:45:08 AM

Quote :

"^ Lacy was a 5 star recruit. "

No he wasn't, at least not according to Scout. Here's his profile: http://northcarolinastate.scout.com/player/3625833n-trevor-lacey

If you think Cat is the only one who has improved under Gott, you must have never watched Lacey play at Bama. He is WAY better here than he ever was there



[Edited on February 12, 2015 at 11:57 AM. Reason : ]

2/12/2015 11:55:02 AM

Here are the current players rankings out of high school:

Barber (21)
Martin (66)
Martin (67)
Lacey (60)
Washington (91)
Abu (56)
Anya (60)
Turner 3* (Almost all the SEC offered) 10 PPG scorer at LSU
Lee JUCO All American
Freeman 3* out of Oak Hill

Now someone justify this roster getting blowout by Clemson at home and losing to a first year coach at Wake. Not to even mention losing to Wofford. In what world are we overachieving?

2/12/2015 11:58:54 AM

Quote :

"We have 7 top 100 recruits "

Worth noting that 6 of those are underclassmen (3 are freshmen). The other is a first-year transfer player. Also, since when is losing to Wake on the road by 4 some huge upset? Also, we lost by 11 to Clemson and were within a few points late. Not exactly a blowout.


[Edited on February 12, 2015 at 12:07 PM. Reason : ]

2/12/2015 12:03:52 PM

you're conveniently overlooking being down 20+ to both Clemson (at home) and Wake

doesn't really matter what the final deficit is when you dig yourself that big of a hole

2/12/2015 12:14:32 PM

We were down 36-16 at the half against fucking Clemson. They have maybe one player who would crack our rotation.

2/12/2015 12:19:01 PM

Quote :

"Not exactly a blowout."

2/12/2015 12:23:02 PM

A blowout is losing big. Not losing by 11 points and having a chance to win. Sorry.

2/12/2015 12:25:17 PM

We blew them out in the 2nd half

2/12/2015 12:31:59 PM

the inconsistent tag is such bullshit. there isnt a single team in america that shoots the exact same percentage every game, turns over the ball exactly the same, etc

we've sucked ass on the road losing/almost losing to teams worse than us and played well at home beating duke and playing virginia/unc/nd close. thats pretty much what is supposed to happen when you have an average team.

we'll always bring in talent. fucking herb landed top 20 recruiting classes. when is the last time we actually had a top 20 team for a whole season, though?

it's really fucking hard to pull off when you dont play defense

2/12/2015 1:58:12 PM

Quote :

"Duke starts multiple freshmen."

We've done the same this year.

2/12/2015 2:04:48 PM

Its OK to have rebuilding years. Michigan is currently in one. Indiana was last year. Syracuse is this year. It is what we build up to. Is Gott building us up to an ACC winning caliber team? Or more mediocrity?

[Edited on February 12, 2015 at 2:09 PM. Reason : ]

2/12/2015 2:07:02 PM

Quote :

"We are not even close to young. In today's college bball, we are old if anything."

You are so incredibly wrong it hurts.

We field the youngest team in the ACC. Period. Don't believe me? Let's look at the facts..

I'll list below the teams we've played so far in the ACC, the class composition including every player that got playing time in the game we played against them, and the percentage of those players that are underclassmen (Freshmen and Sophomores). I'll do the same for NC State from the same game. To make this easier, I've rolled Red Shirts up to the next highest class, and Grad Students down into Seniors. These numbers are from the box scores from the games, and the rosters of each team.

Pitt - Sr: 2 Jr: 2 So: 4 Fr: 1 - 55%
State - Sr: 2 Jr: 0 So: 4 Fr:3 - 77%

UVA (Jan 7th)- Sr: 3 Jr: 3 So: 1 Fr: 1 - 20%
State - Sr: 2 Jr: 0 So: 4 Fr: 3 - 77%

Duke - Sr: 1 Jr: 3 So: 1 Fr: 4 - 55%
State - Sr: 3 Jr: 0 So: 4 Fr: 3 - 70%

UNC - Sr: 1 Jr: 4 So: 3 Fr: 2 - 50%
State - Sr: 3 Jr: 0 So: 4 Fr: 3 - 70%

FSU - Sr: 0 Jr: 4 So: 3 Fr: 3 - 60%
State - Sr: 3 Jr: 0 So: 3 Fr: 3 - 66%

Miami - Sr: 2 Jr: 2 So: 2 Fr: 3 - 55%
State - Sr:2 Jr: 0 So: 4 Fr: 3 - 77%

ND - Sr: 2 Jr: 1 So: 3 Fr: 1 - 57%
State - Sr: 3 Jr: 0 So: 3 Fr: 4 - 70%

Clemson - Sr: 2 Jr: 4 So: 1 Fr: 1 - 20%
State - Sr: 3 Jr: 0 So: 4 Fr: 3 - 70%

GT - Sr: 2 Jr: 4 So: 3 Fr: 1 - 40%
State - Sr: 3 Jr: 0 So: 3 Fr: 4 - 70%

WF - Sr: 1 Jr: 5 So: 1 Fr:3 - 40%
State - Sr: 3 Jr: 0 So: 4 Fr: 3 - 70%

UVA (Feb 11) - Sr: 3 Jr: 2 So: 2 Fr: 2 - 44%
State - Sr: 2 Jr: 0 So: 3 Fr: 3 - 75%

Want to see the rest of the ACC based on who's regularly getting playing time?

Louisville - Sr: 2 Jr: 1 So: 2 Fr: 3 - 62.5%
VT - Sr: 3 Jr: 1 So: 2 Fr: 3 - 45%
BC - Sr: 4 Jr: 2 So: 0 Fr: 0 - 0%
Syracuse - Sr: 2 Jr: 1 So: 3 Fr: 2 - 62.5%

We are literally the youngest team in the ACC based off who hits the floor. The only two upperclassmen we play heavily are Turner and Lacey. Everyone else is a Freshmen or Sophomore.

But, but.. Kentucky! Get out of here with that shit. You're talking about a program that's designed to take the absolute cream of the crop from the incoming freshmen class and win a National Title in one year. If you're trying to compare us to them you're either willfully ignorant or an idiot.

2/12/2015 2:17:59 PM

minutes, man

and sophomores with an entire year under their belt (with NCAA tournament experience) lose their "young" tag after their freshman year

2/12/2015 2:32:21 PM

If you'd like to go through all the minutes and prove me wrong, go right ahead.

As someone who just looked at all those numbers, I can tell you that the upperclassmen on those teams are getting a majority of the minutes.

Quote :

"and sophomores with an entire year under their belt (with NCAA tournament experience) lose their "young" tag after their freshman year"

and by extention of that logic, Juniors with two years under their belt should be better than sophomores, etc, etc.. it's a moot point. We're still the youngest team in the ACC.



[Edited on February 12, 2015 at 2:37 PM. Reason : s]

2/12/2015 2:34:26 PM

Quote :

"and by extention of that logic, Juniors with two years under their belt should be better than sophomores, etc, etc.."

uh, yeah. who would debate that?

hang onto the "young" tag all you want, but experience is at the heart of the issue

2/12/2015 2:42:32 PM

youth, inexperience, call it what you want.. it's the same issue. The guys opposite us on the court have more time under their belt doing this thing than our guys do.

2/12/2015 2:52:48 PM

boozie sure does treat arbitrary high school rankings as the gospel for everything basketball

[Edited on February 12, 2015 at 3:50 PM. Reason : if Gott was a better coach, Lacey wouldn't have missed that layup!]

2/12/2015 3:49:41 PM

i really hope one of those math nerds can hurry up and run a regression analysis on experience. i wouldnt be surprised if it had a negative correlation with wins in bcs conferences. from what i remember of last season when we had the same bullshit excuses about having a ton of freshmen the only bcs team that missed the tournament with a young roster was south carolina and we were the only double digit seed.

2/12/2015 3:57:08 PM

Quote :

"Wasted season. I doubt we beat UNC and Louisville, and think we get smashed by Clemson again."

in all reality, based on preseason expectations, is this really a wasted season? i think most expected us to be a bubble team. i know i thought this year's team had a potentially higher ceiling than last year, but also a potentially lower floor than last year. that's kinda what we've seen this year. some good highs - beating duke and i guess tennessee at the time was an impressive showing against a decent team. and some low lows - embarrassed by clemson, losing leads vs miami and nd.

i dislike the "wait till next year" mentality....but i think most people realized that next year was gonna be our chance to really make some noise if we can keep our roster intact. this has been a very frustrating season. but i don't see it as a wasted season if all we lose is dez lee and ralston turner.

2/12/2015 5:16:18 PM

Quote :

" i think most people realized that next year was gonna be our chance to really make some noise"

After watching the first half of this season and banking some further development, there were many of us hoping to really make some noise this season

[Edited on February 12, 2015 at 5:26 PM. Reason : V agreed]

2/12/2015 5:19:49 PM

yeah, and i was one of those fans thinking that. obviously expectations fluctuate as the season progresses. i just think to call this a "wasted season" is a bit of a stretch given 1)preseason expectations and 2) who we return next year.

2/12/2015 5:24:04 PM

Quote :

"yeah, and i was one of those fans thinking that. obviously expectations fluctuate as the season progresses. i just think to call this a "wasted season" is a bit of a stretch given 1)preseason expectations and 2) who we return next year."

Notre Dame would of been an excellent resume builder, no excuse for losing that big of a lead. @Miami was a game we should of won, and Clemson and @Wake is self explanatory. ACC is stacked this year, and losing some games we should of won is normal, but this team had games they should of clearly won which is diminishing our chances for making the big dance.

2/12/2015 7:17:17 PM

The same issues that showed their ugly faces in year 1 of Gott are still there...with an entirely different cast of players.

The same issues that Alabama fans had with Gott(outside of the off the court stuff) are still there. Gott was known in Bama as a guy that recruited good athletes however it never came together on the court and his teams played with little basketball knowledge. Sound familiar?

This is what we are and what we are going to be with Gott at the helm. Most of the time we're gonna be average and sneak into the tournament. Maybe a year will come where we'll be better than that and make it into the tournament without sneaking in during the final weekend. That'll be about it.

You can blame youth, players, etc...but the coaches are ultimately responsible for how those guys play. And our guys have been playing with the same issues for 4 years now. At some point you have to stop thinking it is the players and start thinking the coaching isn't up to snuff.

2/12/2015 7:47:20 PM

Quote :

"Terrible teams don't play the #2 team in the country (even without one of their best shooters), stay with them the whole game, and come within seconds of beating them."

When you're right, you're right.

2/14/2015 5:28:51 PM