I believe the point is, who the fuck else do we have to guard Henderson? Fells is OUR BEST OPTION, even though it doesn't work.

and what the fuck are people debating this bullshit minutia in this thread? what are you trying to accomplish?

[Edited on January 22, 2009 at 4:02 PM. Reason : goddammit, i keep posting in here and we move on inexorably to page 100...]

1/22/2009 4:01:51 PM

Who is going to shut down Tyrese Rice on Saturday?

[Edited on January 22, 2009 at 4:10 PM. Reason : s]

1/22/2009 4:06:46 PM

tonya harding

1/22/2009 4:07:30 PM

Fergie?

1/22/2009 4:07:43 PM

Quote :

"Who is going to shut down Tyrece Rice on Saturday?"

We're just goign to leave him wide-open and hope he goes cold quickly.

1/22/2009 4:09:12 PM

sidney is on 850 right now

1/22/2009 4:27:06 PM

Quote :

"Being a great ball player doesn't mean you'll be a great coach. For someone who has a lot of natural ability it is probably hard to teach players how to do things that came to you naturally. Look at the great college coaches out there. Some of them might have been good players but most were not. Guys like K and Roy weren't great ball players. Maybe they can relate to college athletes better since they themselves had to learn through hard work."

Roy isn't a great "coach"

He is a great recruiter who relies on outscoring the other team to win

He doesn't coach defense, and with the amount of talent he has had over the years at Kansas and UNC, if he was really a great coach, he should have more than 1 title

1/22/2009 4:32:27 PM

Quote :

"Roy isn't a great "coach""

That's debatable. I'd say anyone who has a career .800 winning percentage over 20 years is a great coach.

Quote :

"He is a great recruiter who relies on outscoring the other team to win"

I'd say winning makes you a great coach. You can 'out coach' the other team or your players can 'out play' the other team. Either way its a win. And isn't that what we hope Sid will do with the talent he brings in?

But when talking about Sid, Roy is a great coach. He only has 1 title but he's won the ACC 3 times and the ACCT twice in 5 years. He's a little above Sid's level.

1/22/2009 5:10:16 PM

Time will tell all of that, Roy got to jump into a program that was pretty well established and rife with talent and a near limitless number of good recruits pining to come to UNC

I'm not going to argue Herb left the cupboard totally bare, but it has been outlined before how it hurt us, especially the loss of Wright due to Fowler's shitty search that dragged on for months.

It's pretty obvious with how this team performed under Atsur, (who is a decent pg, even though injuries hampered his season even then) that with an acceptable point guard we would be in a much much better situation with the players we have now than we are, and Wright definitely would have fit the bill and made the past two seasons much more acceptable

1/22/2009 5:20:36 PM

Quote :

"Roy isn't a great "coach" He is a great recruiter who relies on outscoring the other team to win He doesn't coach defense, and with the amount of talent he has had over the years at Kansas and UNC, if he was really a great coach, he should have more than 1 title"

I'll concede the fact that he's taken some pretty plush jobs (he took over at Kansas the year after they won the national title, right?), but to say he isn't a great coach is just silly.

Apart from his first squad at Kansas, which was on NCAA probation, he's won 20+ games every season and has taken every one of his teams to the tournament. His one title keeps him from being one of the elite coaches of all time, but he does have five Final Four appearances.

And I don't know what you mean by "he doesn't coach defense." According to Pomeroy, Carolina has been ranked in the top 20 in defensive efficiency since he took over (including being 11th this year and 5th when they won the title in 05). Maybe he's not coaching defense, but someone on that staff is.

Don't hate; appreciate.

1/22/2009 6:20:08 PM

Quote :

"He is a great recruiter"

I would think that jobs at Kansas and UNC don't really require too much recruiting effort. Seems like UNC usually gets any player they want.

I think Michael Jordan playing for UNC back in the day really helped to solidify their recruting since kids grew up wanting to be the next MJ. The UNC bandwagon reaches very far, you see kids getting arrested in California on C.O.P.S. wearing UNC apparel all the time.

[Edited on January 22, 2009 at 6:45 PM. Reason : .]

1/22/2009 6:44:36 PM

Quote :

"he UNC bandwagon reaches very far, you see kids getting arrested in California on C.O.P.S. wearing UNC apparel all the time."

There's also the Walmart factor. I was once given a stripper flier by a Mexican sporting a UNC hat on the street in Las Vegas. He couldn't even speak english. Doubt he cared about UNC's recruiting.

1/22/2009 6:49:09 PM

^It's not a chicken-or-egg scenario. There's a reason that UNC apparel is a staple at Wal-Marts across the country. UNC didn't get popular with kids in California simply because they could buy cheap UNC hats at Wal-Mart. Being the savvy entrepreneurial machine that it is, WM capitalized on the UNC-hype by mass-producing (via very cheap labor, i presume) cheap Tarhole duds . Thus, Mexicans in baby-blue hats passing out stripper fliers in LA.

There's no debating UNC's (and Duke's) image will give them a clear recruiting edge for the foreseeable future. If not, some of the better players in the country would not be choosing to be back-ups when they could be making an immediate impact on most teams.

1/22/2009 10:31:11 PM

still credible

1/22/2009 10:50:23 PM

^^^that's why we call them "Walmart Nation"

1/23/2009 12:42:02 AM

Quote :

"I would think that jobs at Kansas and UNC don't really require too much recruiting effort. Seems like UNC usually gets any player they want. I think Michael Jordan playing for UNC back in the day really helped to solidify their recruting since kids grew up wanting to be the next MJ. The UNC bandwagon reaches very far, you see kids getting arrested in California on C.O.P.S. wearing UNC apparel all the time."

While I understand the sentiment, I think this (A) is a bit of a stretch, and (B) comes off as whining. State landed David Thompson, and MJ grew up idolizing HIM. More importantly, in the time since MJ left UNC, the Tarholes have had only 3 coaches, only one of which sucked and he was gone in 3 years. They've also won 2 titles.

I think the head coaches had far more to do with the sustained recruiting success than, say, the accolades of MJ.

1/23/2009 10:30:23 PM

actually it has more to do with us putting ourselves on probation over some shoes at the very time ESPN came into being than anything else

1/23/2009 10:58:45 PM

Quote :

"in the time since MJ left UNC, the Tarholes have had only 3 coaches"

Four coaches, three coaching changes

1/23/2009 11:45:44 PM

hasn't ncsu only had four coaches since that time as well?


[Edited on January 24, 2009 at 12:45 AM. Reason : .]

1/24/2009 12:44:17 AM

Are you really asking that question?

Can you not count to four?

1/24/2009 2:30:46 AM

DT was great in college, MJ was great as a pro for a lot longer. I hope people keep saying that DT was the greatest ACC (and maybe college) player ever, but pro number's seem to go a little further since teams change and players are more of individuals in that game.

1/24/2009 4:23:02 AM

Quote :

"Reminds me of Gary Williams. They had an assistant coach (don't remember his name) that brought in talent. They won a national title. The coach left a couple years ago and they've sucked ever since. They can't recruit great players."

Dave Dickerson, who's still having an absolute job of a time at Tulane trying to convince recruits to come in after Hurricane Katrina.

Quote :

"State landed David Thompson, and MJ grew up idolizing HIM."

Didn't Cheese Eyes want to come to State before being talked out of it by his parents?

1/24/2009 5:40:59 AM

Quote :

"Are you really asking that question? Can you not count to four?"

it just seems like a stupid point to make about unc, when state has had the same number of coaches.

1/24/2009 1:05:49 PM

Quote :

"I think this (A) is a bit of a stretch, and (B) comes off as whining"

I don't believe it's a stretch at all, and sorry you interpreted that as whining. It wasn't.

Some schools recruit themselves. Just look at Notre Dame in football. Just having the name UNC/Duke (I believe) helps in recruiting, the coach be damned. Blame the media or whoever, but Dougherty's (sp?) sorry ass got good kick ass recruiting classes as well.

[Edited on January 24, 2009 at 1:21 PM. Reason : .]

1/24/2009 1:19:03 PM

unc was a good program before it recruited itself... how else would it recruit itself?

1/24/2009 1:21:16 PM

8-21 or whatever it was isn't good. They were still getting All Americans that year. They never stumbled in recruiting.

1/24/2009 1:22:44 PM

you trolling me guy?

1/24/2009 1:34:45 PM

you trolling me?

1/24/2009 1:35:51 PM

Quote :

"8-21 or whatever it was isn't good. They were still getting All Americans that year. They never stumbled in recruiting."

Yeah they did. They signed teh Felton, McCants, May class up to like January of the 8-20 year. The next class was Reyshaun Terry and Bohlander, which was a pretty far fall. Then they hired Roy and it all picked right back up again.

There was a stumble. It was over with pretty quick, though.

1/24/2009 1:55:30 PM

Its easy to get over one shitty recruiting class when the one before it was full of McDAAs. And Terry ended up being a HUGE role player for UNC over the years.

Oh yeah...and bump-da-bump. Good first half guys.

1/24/2009 2:57:05 PM

it's like watching a bunch of retards playing today

1/24/2009 2:59:14 PM

Quote :

"it's like watching a bunch of retards playing today"

1/24/2009 4:00:03 PM

Food for thought:

In our current 1-12 in the ACC streak, we have lost by fewer than 10 points only twice (Duke last year, Clemson last year).

On top of that, we have not lost to an ACC opponent by less than 10 points at any point this year.

1/24/2009 4:06:24 PM

^fire lowe, can't even lose right

1/24/2009 4:09:39 PM

Good halftime adjustments today (and it helped that we were playing harder), we just couldn't sustain it especially with foul trouble. The first half was miserable to watch, and the effort on the boards was inexcusable. Some awful turnovers as well, especially from Fells.

One other observation, our team seems to be energized when we pick up the pace a bit, but not sure we can sustain that for 40 minutes.

1/24/2009 4:10:52 PM

Horner should not play

I don't care if either McCauley and Costner are in foul trouble. We are better off with only 4 people playing.

1/24/2009 4:17:58 PM

don't be stupid.

1/24/2009 4:18:26 PM

Quote :

"Food for thought: In our current 1-12 in the ACC streak, we have lost by fewer than 10 points only twice (Duke last year, Clemson last year). On top of that, we have not lost to an ACC opponent by less than 10 points at any point this year."

So.... what's your point? A loss is a loss, just like a win is a win. If we lose by 60 points or 3 points, in the end it's still a loss. I would rather be 6-7 in ACC in that time period, with being blown out every loss and only winning by a few.

1/24/2009 4:18:58 PM

Quote :

"The next class was Reyshaun Terry and Bohlander, which was a pretty far fall."

Terry didn't turn out to be much, but he was a big time recruit at the time. Bohlander was a walk-on so I don't think it is fair to count him.

1/24/2009 4:31:37 PM

But we aren't 6-7.

And I think his point is that we're not even close to that 6-7. And a win is a win...but a loss isn't a loss. I'd rather have the 10+ point loss we had to Duke than the 40+ point ass raping they gave to Maryland today.

But whatever makes you feel better.

1/24/2009 4:32:19 PM

gotsta gowe

[Edited on January 24, 2009 at 4:36 PM. Reason : r]

1/24/2009 4:36:49 PM

Well that's you. Honestly, we have become one of the worst teams in the ACC under Lowe, and we were probably the 4th strongest team when he came in. I could care less if we lose by 4 or 40. We still lose, we still don't go to the NCAAT, and we still rule the shitter. Who cares.

1/24/2009 4:37:04 PM

Quote :

"I could care less if we lose by 4 or 40."

You gotta be pretty fucking dense to actually believe this

It's not black and white, there are several shades of gray

A 40-point loss is not a 4-point loss

Stop being so damn stupid

1/24/2009 4:40:25 PM

battle cry for NC State fans

wait till next year...


when the new recruits get here!

1/24/2009 4:51:04 PM

^ people always say shit like that, like there's some alternative. like we're supposed to get out and make a difference or something.

you're not entitled to basketball wins, grow up.

1/24/2009 5:01:16 PM

still credible. our players on the other hand...

1/24/2009 5:03:00 PM

first half was a reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal head scratcher

came out real flat and Ben couldnt hit the broadside of a barn

Great second half adjustments by sid, take away rice and BC sucks balls


too bad we were down close to 20 by the first half

In true state fashion we come back to make it close, get our hopes up and then proceed to lose.


Hopefully we can beat miami and then lose by less than 31 against unc

1/24/2009 5:53:26 PM

Sid wasn't the one missing bucket after bucket in the first half, of course you can argue his substitutions robbed their flow and momentum but bottom line, you have to make your baskets and they couldn't take the lid off

I will give him credit for the power lineup we played 2nd half that allowed us to come roaring back, but the foul situation and the veteran play of Tyrese Rice kept them always a step ahead

whatever

1/24/2009 6:12:24 PM

What recruits do you think we'll be getting if we keep losing games.

You guys realize that bad players or not, Sid's inability to get them playing well is going to get either him fired (lolno) or drag our program to Les Robinson depths.

1/24/2009 6:14:56 PM

battle cry for NC State fans

wait till next year...


when the new recruits get here!

1/24/2009 6:30:54 PM