Ok, let’s just stop this now. She was wrong to make that comparison. Randomly asserting, for years on end, that the President is from Kenya because he’s black is not the fucking same as asking for medical files after a candidate had a heart attack. It’s OK to admit she was out of line. It doesn’t change anything.

Again, I think the MSM is wrong to demand more than the perfectly acceptable and largely comprehensive letters he released but that doesn’t mean that comparison is fair. It’s garbage.

2/19/2020 10:45:00 AM

Yeah but the records all the candidates have released are pretty detailed as it is.

https://twitter.com/wideofthepost/status/1226570165481017344?s=21

2/19/2020 10:53:39 AM

I agree and the media is dead wrong here. And it’s very disheartening to see the media jump on every slight misstatement the Sanders campaign makes. I still sit here in disbelief that they push back on his campaign yet allowed rampant disinformation from Trump himself and his campaign on a daily basis in 2016 (and today).

Soft bigotry of low expectations I guess wrt Trump.

2/19/2020 10:56:43 AM

And don’t even get me started on the bullshit “but how will we pay for it” crap as the current administration still puts out budgets assuming 4-5% GDP growth.

2/19/2020 10:59:38 AM

Quote :

"But beyond that, I'm prepared to go full hypocrite. Dems absolutely shouldn't release anything Trump doesn't bc it will just be used for attacks. That goes for tax returns too"

Absolutely.

2/19/2020 11:40:54 AM

SHAUN KING: Voting for Mike Bloomberg is the line I just can’t cross
https://thenorthstar.com/king-voting-for-mike-bloomberg-is-the-line-i-just-cant-cross

Quote :

"Over the past year, on a daily basis, I’m asked whether or not I will vote and fight for the Democratic candidate if it isn’t Bernie Sanders. And for a year, my answer has been a consistent “yes.” And I say that as someone who generally loathes several of the men and women who are still in the race. In spite of serious political differences, I voted and campaigned for Hillary Clinton in 2016. I wrote op-eds in the Daily News encouraging everybody who followed me to do the same thing. But Mike Bloomberg is the line I simply will not cross. I can’t. I don’t say this from a place of privilege. Quite the opposite. It comes from a real place of pain. Mike Bloomberg directly caused real pain, trauma, and harm to people that I personally know and love. That’s not rhetoric. His decisions, policies, and personal directives ruined the actual lives of countless men, women, boys, girls, and families all over New York City. Many will never recover. Contd... "

I have come across many people who say they will vote for any Dem candidate in the general except Bloomberg.

Anybody here feel the same?

2/19/2020 12:41:08 PM

https://twitter.com/lhfang/status/1230001802910801920?s=21

Quote :

" Elizabeth Warren, after spending last week attacking other candidates for having outside PAC support, gets a new Super PAC that hasn't disclosed any donors, airing ads in Nevada starting this week"

Cool cool

2/19/2020 12:48:05 PM

Quote :

"I attend Socialist party USA, Peace and freedom party, and green party local meetings from time to time and follow a ton of these folks on social media. From those experiences, I've ended up being invited to a bunch of closed facebook groups where all these types of discussions take place. It gets pretty heated but I'm always on the pro-bernie side of those debates."

The Peace and Freedom Party exist beyond California? Did you pipe up in the debate over whether Roseanne Barr was a credible presidential candidate for the party to back in 2012?

I'm on the right side of the fence but like you seem to be am about done with the 2 major parties.

Quote :

"They don't attack him, they just kinda "meh" him. My only fear of Bernie is that he will lay over for the DNC."

I don't see that happening at all. The institutional party structure of the Republican and Democratic parties have become so weak that they're effectively rubber stamps for the president when the president is of their party. The Democratic Party's structure had Obama as president for 8 years and effectively went necrotic as his administration based on actions did not give a shit about city, county, state, national Democratic parties. Sanders based on what occurred at the 2016 national convention and after sees more power in the party structure and sought to use it, which makes me think when his supporters have a majority they'll push larger reforms to suit Sanders' beliefs and image.

2/19/2020 1:02:53 PM

Quote :

"I have come across many people who say they will vote for any Dem candidate in the general except Bloomberg. Anybody here feel the same?"

So they've magically changed their minds and will now vote for Biden and Buttigieg if one of them is the nominee?

How progressive voters' bogeymen have evolved over the course of Democratic debates and the short primary season:

"Biden?!? Biden!?! Biden's awful! How can anyone support him!"
"Buttigieg! A damn mayor from Indiana! Terrible wine cave sellout! A traitor to his generation!"
"Bloomberg! Are you fucking kidding me! I will never vote for him!"

I see a pattern. Meanwhile, the Democrats that do support these individuals don't really appear on internet message boards.

[Edited on February 19, 2020 at 1:09 PM. Reason : /]

2/19/2020 1:03:54 PM

Biden and Buttiegig and both awful, but Bloomberg is uniquely terrible in this primary. Even libs like Shaun King are saying they won't vote for him.

It's an easily avoidable dilemma - don't support him, don't nominate him.

2/19/2020 1:09:47 PM

But there's also people like me, who if we have the choice between a Republican Trump and a Democratic Trump, will pick the Republican Trump.

I will not vote for Bloomberg. I like salt.

2/19/2020 1:10:19 PM

Flyin Ryan and rjrumfel: Will you vote for Bernie when he wins the primary?

[Edited on February 19, 2020 at 1:11 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2020 1:11:03 PM

Quote :

"But there's also people like me, who if we have the choice between a Republican Trump and a Democratic Trump, will pick the Republican Trump."

I understand not wanting to vote for Bloomberg, but why would you vote for Trump? Just abstain if you can't support Bloomberg over Trump.

2/19/2020 1:20:43 PM

Well I'm not a Democrat, I'm elected to the position of Township Advisory Board member in Indiana as a Republican. That said, I hate Trump and will vote for Bill Weld in my state's primary in May. I hated Hillary Clinton. I voted for Gary Johnson in 2016 because he was the only other person on my ballot. If Trump or Hillary had died by a heart attack or other means in October 2016, I absolutely would've voted for Mike Pence or Tim Kaine respectively to be president.

For this coming election, I'm not voting for Trump again. I would vote for Biden, he was my favorite Democrat in the 2008 primaries. I'd probably vote for Klobuchar although I know little about her and don't think she's winning the nomination anyway. I will not vote for Sanders or Warren. Bloomberg, I don't know, probably not.

(I wouldn't vote for Buttigieg because South Bend is about a hundred miles down the road and I see no difference between Buttigieg's accomplishments in South Bend and my Democratic mayor's accomplishments in a city twice South Bend's size, in fact I give my mayor the edge. The difference between the two is Buttigieg is running for president and is young and gay.)

I'm actually considering leaving the two-party system and throwing my support and effort into something else. Would be a slog but nothing would exemplify to me more that is the correct decision than having a presidential election between a Donald Trump-led Republican Party and a Bernie Sanders-led Democratic Party: two parties hijacked by entryists to serve their whims. The Democratic Party and Republican Party each at that point lose the right to state they stand for the leadership of responsible and effective government.

[Edited on February 19, 2020 at 1:26 PM. Reason : /]

2/19/2020 1:21:29 PM

Not sure why you're complaining about progressives refusing to vote for Bloomberg then.

2/19/2020 1:26:00 PM

Quote :

"Not sure why you're complaining about progressives refusing to vote for Bloomberg then."

The Sanders mob are turning every credible challenger to Sanders' nomination into evil. Bloomberg is just the latest flavor. Look, it's how politics works, define your enemies how you want them defined. It's a very Trump tactic. I am just putting it out in the open this is what is going on.

The Buttigieg hatred from the left online at the end of 2019 I was starting to laugh at due to how heavy it was.

[Edited on February 19, 2020 at 1:30 PM. Reason : /]

2/19/2020 1:28:29 PM

Yeah, it's a terrible field. Bernie and Warren are by far ahead of the rest of the pack. Super Trumpian to try and win the primary.

2/19/2020 1:33:42 PM

Quote :

"For what it's worth, here's the 10-year risk of myocardial infarction, stroke or cardiovascular death for the three candidates with a history of ASCVD: Sanders: 46% Bloomberg: 45% Biden: 45% Work shown below, using the SMART-REACH model. Gaps in the data provided are noted."

https://twitter.com/MaxKennerly/status/1230188200653709318?s=20

Trump is estimated to be in the 40% range as well...

Warren is likely the healthiest of the old people.

2/19/2020 1:37:17 PM

We're about to the point of Sanders supporters saying "if any person other than Sanders wins the nomination, I won't vote for the Democrat in November". Because we've had this stated now with Biden, with Buttigieg, and with Bloomberg. So they're Democrats, but only Democrats if 2 of the 6 main candidates win?

It's not befitting a party that thinks as little of Donald Trump as they do if the main goal is to remove him from office in November to create any kind of opening that could see Trump remain in office. It's very Corbynish: "I hate the Tories, but I hate the right wing of the Labour Party more." And the Tories keep on winning elections...

[Edited on February 19, 2020 at 1:51 PM. Reason : /]

2/19/2020 1:46:41 PM

So what you’re claiming here is that Bernie turns out people who would otherwise stay home. Awesome! This is great for the Democratic Party.

2/19/2020 1:57:15 PM

The majority of Sanders supporters I see online say they will vote for any dem nominee, some say they will vote for any but but bloomberg. I havent seen any kind of notable movement of Sanders supporters saying they wouldn't vote for warren/biden/buttigieg in the ge, flying ryan is talking out of his ass.

2/19/2020 2:11:46 PM

Quote :

"So what you’re claiming here is that Bernie turns out people who would otherwise stay home. Awesome! This is great for the Democratic Party."

Actually that was not true per the Iowa Caucuses and New Hampshire primary turnout numbers and Sanders' vote.

Per Kos after Iowa which I quoted on page 65 of this thread.

Quote :

"Re caucus turnout, this is what Kos said as the bookend point to his reaction: Quote : "11) For all the talk about Sanders reshaping the electorate, it’s just not happening. If he eventually gets 25%, which seems about right, he will have lost half his support from 2016, without managing to increase the number of caucus-goers. Fact is, only Barack Obama has managed to “reshape the electorate” in recent history, and we have no one of his caliber on the line. Michelle Obama would’ve done it. Hard to see anyone else. And that’s tragic, because Obama made everything so much easier." "

(I don't agree with the Michelle Obama line and abhor the premise.)

For New Hampshire, Sanders got almost exactly half his 2016 vote (152k to 76k) while turnout went up 18% (253k to 299k). Some of the 18% should be assumed to be crossover Republicans because there was no competitive Republican race this year unlike 2016 and there's a lot of voters that go to the race where they feel they have the most influence.

2/19/2020 2:41:55 PM

Weird assumption. It’s the all time record for NH primary turnout for both parties.

And weird how the votes are split differently when far more people are in the race.

2/19/2020 2:48:33 PM

I was full green party in 2012 and voted for Stein. I didn't follow PNF at all back then. Now that I'm independent, I keep up with more parties.

This article embodies the sentiment of most people on the left. I think there needs to be a distinction made between pro sanders democrats, pro sanders independents non leftist, and pro sanders leftists. Pro sanders democrats will definitely vote for anyone else (except maybe bloomberg).

Quote :

"Although we are not Democrats, we encourage those voting in the upcoming Democratic Party primaries to vote for Bernie Sanders. Members of the PSL will be going out to Sanders campaign events to connect with the most radical and committed layers of people drawn to his program and to build relationships that will last far beyond the current election cycle. This is consistent with our Party’s orientation to the 2016 election. If Bernie Sanders fails to get the nomination, he says that he will campaign for whoever is the candidate in the general election. The PSL will not follow that advice. We will urge people to vote for the La Riva/Peltier ticket instead wherever they have achieved ballot status either as PSL candidates representing the Peace and Freedom Party in California or on other progressive third parties’ ballot lines in other states. If Bernie Sanders wins the Democratic nomination, in spite of the Democratic Party establishment’s war against him, the PSL will not run candidates in battleground swing states. If Bernie Sanders were to win the Democratic Party nomination and then shift his campaign stance and orientation to the right to appease sections of the ruling class and the Democratic Party leadership elites, we will retain our independent capacity to evaluate, criticize or condemn such moves. Appeasing reactionaries in the ruling class only facilitates the growth of right-wing and ultra-right politics. In the event of a Sanders versus Trump general election, the La Riva/Peltier campaign running outside of swing states will still make an important contribution to the radicalization of popular consciousness. In a period of intensifying class struggle, independent organization and clarity on the meaning of socialism — and how to achieve it — becomes more necessary than ever."

Keep in mind theres a lot of leftists that straight up won't vote for Bernie at all so it shouldn't be difficult to imagine theres a large number of us who would only vote for Bernie.

Quote :

"If Sanders fails to win the nomination or has it stolen from him, he has pledged to support the party pro-ruling class nominee in the general election. He did the same in 2016 when he campaigned for capitalist war hawk Hillary Clinton. If Sanders again abandons his own movement by supporting a ruling class candidate in 2020, the movement should refuse to follow him; it should refuse to be a tail to the kite of either wing of the capitalist political machine and the military-industrial complex. "

https://www.liberationnews.org/the-bernie-sanders-campaign-and-building-the-movement-for-socialism-in-the-us/

2/19/2020 3:04:20 PM

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/18/politics/sanders-ocasio-cortez-compromise-medicare-for-all/index.html

Bernie Sanders distances himself from Ocasio-Cortez's comments, says Medicare for All is 'already a compromise

2/19/2020 4:57:30 PM

Quote :

"A new study shows that Bloomberg’s Stop and Frisk lead to fewer black students graduating from high school https://t.co/Swwu0ycQrh"

2/19/2020 7:59:35 PM

Filed under "Trump is too incompetent to implement much of what he wants"

https://www.wsj.com/articles/turkey-russia-standoff-in-syria-leaves-millions-of-refugees-caught-in-chaos-11581969539

2/19/2020 8:07:09 PM

Goooood lord. Apparently Michael Bloomberg’s communications director advised Jair Bolsonaro’s election campaign.

2/19/2020 8:47:31 PM

holy shit liz just called bloomberg a sexist, racist, arrogant billionaire, while standing right next to him. lmao

[Edited on February 19, 2020 at 9:07 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2020 9:06:33 PM

horosho, not that you have a say unless you live in California, but I assume you back La Riva over Howie Hawkins in the California Peace & Freedom race?

The Libertarians really need a Hawkins-level candidate of a guy with considerable campaign experience that can put forth the best the party's point of view on issues. I'm not impressed with what they have currently in the running, which is one problem with Libertarian presidential race politics is you have all the quacks that the more respectable Libertarians have to then fight hard to keep out (otherwise you get Michael Badnarik). I've read they're trying to draft Justin Amash, which would be about the best they could do. Lincoln Chafee has thrown his hat in which while he has a name I think that'd be not be a good candidate at all.

2/19/2020 9:14:38 PM

^^came on here to post that. perfect delivery. 10/10

now she's on some bullshit about bernie being responsible for people like me

^I'm fake switching to democrat to vote Bernie on supertuesday. With 3rd parties, I think you should be more interested in voting for the party platform instead of the person on the ticket. You really shouldn't matter about who is on the ticket because they will never have to govern anyway. The vote though goes a long way to advancing the party in more ways than funding.



[Edited on February 19, 2020 at 9:19 PM. Reason : i voted green twice in a row and now Jill is gone but the platform is mainstream via Bernie/AOC]

2/19/2020 9:15:05 PM

Warren attacking everyone up there...

2/19/2020 9:20:32 PM

Loved her first round, back on her bullshit now though

2/19/2020 9:21:02 PM

How y'all not watching the State game though?

Cash me outside SB posting in Sports Talk how bout dah??

2/19/2020 9:28:13 PM

State game muted on the big screen. Debate on the laptop backtabbed. TWW, FB, and Twitter on the laptop screen. Slack and whatsapp on the phone.

[Edited on February 19, 2020 at 9:31 PM. Reason : what state game amirite? not much of a "game" anymore ]

2/19/2020 9:30:44 PM

Everyone is beating up Bloomberg

Imagine how bad Trump would beat up Bloomberg in a debate

2/19/2020 9:32:37 PM

Quote :

"Everyone is beating up Bloomberg"

it's great

2/19/2020 9:44:55 PM

warren gonna make bloomberg tap out

[Edited on February 19, 2020 at 9:46 PM. Reason : lmao pete like "don't involve me in your biden gaffes"]

2/19/2020 9:45:22 PM

Bloomberg had to have known this and plenty more would be dug up... he seems unprepared for this.

2/19/2020 9:46:56 PM

Quote :

" he seems unprepared for this"

Ofc he is. They kinda sprung it on him.

2/19/2020 9:48:32 PM

wow this is the most remarkable debate since 2016.

This exchange with Amy and Pete was unexpected. Then Warren jumped in to blindly defend amy about "just forgetting a name" and the moderator corrected her by adding "she didn't know policy either". Never seen Amy as rattled as that moment

[Edited on February 19, 2020 at 9:56 PM. Reason : wow]

[Edited on February 19, 2020 at 9:56 PM. Reason : NYT gonna be pissed]

[Edited on February 19, 2020 at 9:56 PM. Reason : bloomberg got everybody amped up]

2/19/2020 9:55:25 PM

Quote :

"wow this is the most remarkable debate since 2016. "

it rivals the republican debates of 2016

2/19/2020 9:58:36 PM

Might just be biased but I don't see Biden helping himself here. He's stumbling way too much IMO.

2/19/2020 10:08:42 PM

Bloomberg right on this fracking. Need to ditch coal first ASAP

2/19/2020 10:11:27 PM

Bloomberg's answer to "Should billionaires exist" was "I'm giving all my money away". I'm biased but that, to me, seemed to prove Bernie's point. I'd love to hear from what some of the anti-trump capitalists think about that answer. Was it satisfying?

2/19/2020 10:24:40 PM

I'm not sure if i heard correctly but while Bernie was listing "X for all" programs, I think I heard the moderator cutting him off. 'I'm sorry senator sanders but the question was about socialism'

If thats what it was, I'll be pissed.

2/19/2020 10:30:34 PM

Even that answer is garbage because why should we let him (and other billionaires) dictate how that much money should be distributed in this country? We didn't elect them.

2/19/2020 10:30:52 PM

I missed first hour or so but of what I have seen so far this debate has been real salty

Wish biden would drop out. Bootyitch not looking that great either. Its like he says something without saying anything

[Edited on February 19, 2020 at 10:42 PM. Reason : S]

2/19/2020 10:37:25 PM

^thats what all the bernie bro memes about pete are about. Are you referring to those or did you pick up on it too?

2/19/2020 10:47:14 PM

I def don’t know anything about bernie bros except ppl say they are kinda vigilant on twitter about harrassing ppl that speak ill about bernie. I like klobachars line “i wish we could all be as perfect as you pete” lol

[Edited on February 19, 2020 at 10:49 PM. Reason : S]

2/19/2020 10:49:34 PM