You realize that making the tournament is a great way to increase the visibility of the school's basketball program which should then help recruiting, right?

In all seriousness though, who would want to be a perennial NCAA Tournament team when we can be longshots for the NIT?

1/25/2009 3:13:36 PM

Quote :

"You realize that making the tournament is a great way to increase the visibility of the school's basketball program which should then help recruiting, right?"

yes, we've seen how making the tournament really shot us off.

1/25/2009 3:18:30 PM

once herb got us to the tourney, he sure did get us deep into it didnt he

we made the sweet 16 once! lifetime contract!

1/25/2009 3:19:36 PM

i have a feeling that we'll make a tourney this year

1/25/2009 3:24:44 PM

we won't, but what's the difference?

1/25/2009 3:25:17 PM

i think we will....one of the two

1/25/2009 3:29:43 PM

Maybe Fowler used a similar service as this when he was conducting the b-ball coach search.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xLsRI7-hBs

1/25/2009 3:44:57 PM

Quote :

"yes, we've seen how making the tournament really shot us off."

Languishing at the bottom of the ACC is doing much better for us.

1/25/2009 3:48:23 PM

being 100% serious here -- if I were a blue chip high school basketball player, I would rather play for a school with a big-time history that was currently at the bottom of their conference than a flash-in-the-pan school that's currently near the top of their conference.

nothing better than being responsible for bringing a program back to national respectibility

1/25/2009 3:52:47 PM

^by playing one year and leaving????

no one that is good enough to bring a program back to national respectability is not going to stick around long enough to try anyhow.

At least unless you are carmelo and can do it in one year....

1/25/2009 4:00:21 PM

Quote :

"once herb got us to the tourney, he sure did get us deep into it didnt he we made the sweet 16 once! lifetime contract!"

And Lowe got us to the very bottom of the ACC!

1/25/2009 4:02:51 PM

^^whatever...I'd rather go play at a "Flash in the pan" school and continue winning thereby making my school a storied program than try to resurrect a bottom of the league historied program.
See how great it is to be a Florida Gator

1/25/2009 4:05:01 PM

Quote :

"being 100% serious here -- if I were a blue chip high school basketball player, I would rather play for a school with a big-time history that was currently at the bottom of their conference than a flash-in-the-pan school that's currently near the top of their conference. nothing better than being responsible for bringing a program back to national respectibility"

First of all, we're not a school with a "big-time history". We've won two champions; the most recent of which was 25 years ago.

Second, if I were a blue chip high school star who wanted to ressurect a program, I'd want to do so in a conference that was mediocre to good, rather than one that has Duke and UNC sitting at the top.

1/25/2009 4:23:02 PM

Quote :

"I'd want to do so in a conference that was mediocre to good"

that says a whole about your character
i would want to play against the best night in and night out

1/25/2009 4:25:21 PM

Quote :

" I'd want to do so in a conference that was mediocre to good"

that says a whole about your character
i would want to play against the best night in and night out

[Edited on January 25, 2009 at 4:28 PM. Reason : .]

1/25/2009 4:27:56 PM

Derrick Rose is no competitor.

Quote :

"First of all, we're not a school with a "big-time history". We've won two champions; the most recent of which was 25 years ago."

We're one of like 5 or 6 schools to win NC with 2 coaches... not too shabby.

But we aren't OWED anything because of our history. The Valvano ending and subsequent "checks" set up against the bball program KILLED us.

[Edited on January 25, 2009 at 4:30 PM. Reason : x]

1/25/2009 4:29:27 PM

Quote :

"First of all, we're not a school with a "big-time history"."

I guess i can understand why you might say this if you haven't been attending NC State long, or haven't been a fan of the team for a while. But in comparison to many, many colleges, State's b-ball program has a long history and a rich tradition.


[Edited on January 25, 2009 at 4:36 PM. Reason : no, we're no UNC or Duke or UConn or UCLA, but still]

1/25/2009 4:30:18 PM

Quote :

"that says a whole about your character i would want to play against the best night in and night out"

So would I, which is why I'd rather carry a middle of the road deep in the tournament, then go to the NBA where I actually would be playing against the best night in and night out, while getting a nice paycheck out of it.

1/25/2009 4:42:55 PM

Quote :

"First of all, we're not a school with a "big-time history""

You realize that there are only 6 schools with more National Championships that us right? That's exactly how I would define a "big-time history". The fact that the last one was 25 years ago is irrelevant, especially since we're talking about HISTORY not "very recent past"

1/25/2009 4:53:59 PM

Quote :

"being 100% serious here -- if I were a blue chip high school basketball player, I would rather play for a school with a big-time history that was currently at the bottom of their conference than a flash-in-the-pan school that's currently near the top of their conference. nothing better than being responsible for bringing a program back to national respectibility"

i'm w/ you on that, but it might be b/c i've been a fan of a program w/ a "big-time history" at the bottom of its conference (w/ five years of top half, which is totally awesome) for two decades years.

1/25/2009 5:00:52 PM

Quote :

"You realize that there are only 6 schools with more National Championships that us right? That's exactly how I would define a "big-time history". The fact that the last one was 25 years ago is irrelevant, especially since we're talking about HISTORY not "very recent past""

While I do realize this and think it's great, we haven't been significant since well before any of these high school seniors were born.

1/25/2009 5:04:37 PM

i don't know why this is a hard concept for you to grasp.

1/25/2009 5:07:09 PM

Quote :

"He had losing seasons his first 5 seasons"

In ACC play, yes. Losing seasons? No.

But overall play no. We made the postseason in 4 out of 5 years. We performed pretty well for what we had. Many said we overachieved those first four years and underachieved for one badly. In Lowe's time, we've had one team overachieve and one underachieve badly.

Of course simonn thinks it's not good to go to the NCAAs....he says its not good to go to a bowl unless you are in a BCS one.

1/25/2009 5:16:11 PM

it's true. who gives a fuck if we go to the papajohns.com bowl?

the extra practice is nice i guess, but in no way do i get excited for those bowls.

1/25/2009 5:32:46 PM

it's better than nothing i guess, but I can see both sides of that particular argument.

1/25/2009 5:41:25 PM

It is ALWAYS better to go to a bowl than to not go to one.

It is ALWAYS better to get into the NCAA Tournament than to go to the NIT.

1/25/2009 5:43:17 PM

i'm not arguing that it's not, but i am arguing is that the difference is marginal.

1/25/2009 5:48:03 PM

So finishing 2nd, 3rd, and 4th in the ACC was not much better than finishing 10th, 11th, and 12th?

I really don't get why you think this.

1/25/2009 5:50:57 PM

what'd we get out of all of those finishes? one sweet sixteen.

out of everything that our team has done in the last 20 years, the only thing that i would consider an accomplishment is that sweet sixteen.

so yeah, i would say that finishing 2nd, 3rd and 4th in the acc with a first or second round exit is not much better than finishing 10th, 11th or 12th.

1/25/2009 5:59:43 PM

Quote :

"First of all, we're not a school with a "big-time history""

everett case contributed more to basketball as we know it today than you may realize. there are tons of straight up "basketball traditions" that were started here at nc state. player introductions, cutting the nets down, the fact that we even have an acc basketball tournament, the noise-meter, etc. etc.

1/25/2009 6:00:04 PM

Quote :

""He had losing seasons his first 5 seasons"/quote] In ACC play, yes. Losing seasons? No. But overall play no. We made the postseason in 4 out of 5 years. We performed pretty well for what we had. Many said we overachieved those first four years and underachieved for one badly. In Lowe's time, we've had one team overachieve and one underachieve badly."

The discussion was about Sid's ACC record vs. Herb's (and Les's). And that postseason you speak of was the NIT. And out two of those 5 losing ACC season, he went 17-15 overall (which isn't a very impressive winning season). And he went 13-16 overall (and no postseason) his fifth season!

There's absolutely no arguing it. Sid is doing no worse right now than Herb did in his first several years. And Sid's recruiting looks much better than Herb's did. Wait a few more years and a few more recruiting classes before comparing Sid and Herb.


[Edited on January 25, 2009 at 6:04 PM. Reason : ]

1/25/2009 6:03:13 PM

Quote :

"There's absolutely no arguing it. Sid is doing no worse right now than Herb did in his first several years. And Sid's recruiting looks much better than Herb's did. Wait a few more years and a few more recruiting classes before comparing Sid and Herb."

So you think when Herb came in the program was in just as good of shape as when Sidney took over?

If you do....then I don't want to talk basketball with you anymore.

1/25/2009 6:11:17 PM

that is immaterial.

1/25/2009 6:12:07 PM

^I agree. I don't know why we are arguing it.

Sid's first three years are NOT comparable to Herb's.

1/25/2009 6:16:04 PM

all this bullshit arguing is just the purging of righteous anger at our current predicament that can't be directed elsewhere.

god I fucking hope we don't suck next year.

1/25/2009 6:18:08 PM

if we can land Wall I'd bet we will surprise many next season.

1/25/2009 6:22:27 PM

Quote :

"So you think when Herb came in the program was in just as good of shape as when Sidney took over?"

by Herb's fifth season, why should that even matter?

1/25/2009 6:31:41 PM

^^ i think we'll surprise a lot of people just by landing john wall.

1/25/2009 6:38:19 PM

NC State currently sits at 10-7.

Our remaining games are:

Miami (FL)
No. 6 North Carolina
North Carolina Central
at Virginia Tech
No. 1 Wake Forest
at Georgia Tech
at No. 6 North Carolina
Virginia
at No. 1 Wake Forest
Maryland
Boston College
at Miami (FL)

So we should beat Central, but what are the odds we get enough wins to finish above .500?

[Edited on January 25, 2009 at 6:48 PM. Reason : .]

1/25/2009 6:48:13 PM

chances are lowe, mang.

[Edited on January 25, 2009 at 6:53 PM. Reason : LOL i didn't even meant to do that, but i'll leave it.]

1/25/2009 6:53:04 PM

I could see a split with Mia, W vs Central, UVA, and maybe UMD and GT.. and possibly another one that we shouldn't really win, so I guess 14-15 or 15-14.. hmm

1/25/2009 6:56:57 PM

Quote :

"so yeah, i would say that finishing 2nd, 3rd and 4th in the acc with a first or second round exit is not much better than finishing 10th, 11th or 12th."

I have a lot more fun watching a team win 20+ games a season, beating UNC or Duke every now and then, and playing the tournament than watching a team finish below .500, being mauled by UNC and Duke, and never having a shot a the tournament.

I'm not comparing Herb and Lowe here, I'm just saying it's always fun to have a team that wins more than it loses and finish near the top of the best conference in the country.

I don't expect to win the national championship every year, I don't expect to win the ACC every year -- it's not all or nothing, you can enjoy a season where your team came up short in the end.

I don't see how you can't see that.

Do you know what fun is?

And don't pull out the Herb was boring card. This is not about him. You can't say finishing fourth in the conference is no different that finishing 12th.

That's just fucking stupid.

1/25/2009 7:01:07 PM

We have to go 5-7 to finish with a winning record, and then win a game in the tourney just to avoid finishing with a .500 record. I just dont see that happening.

1/25/2009 7:11:19 PM

Quote :

"beating UNC or Duke every now and then"

my point was kindof that we never beat duke or unc under herb anyway. we didn't beat the teams we wanted to beat and we didn't have any postseason success. i don't understand why some of you were so in love w/ that.

1/25/2009 7:14:24 PM

Quote :

"we never beat duke or unc under herb anyway"

Sure we did. Every now and then, like I said.

I'm not talking about Herb and Sidney here, though. I'm talking about you equating a 14-15, last place finish with a fourth place finish in the conference and a loss in the second round of the tournament.

They aren't the same, they aren't marginally different.

They are hugely different

Worlds apart

Not even fucking close

1/25/2009 7:18:51 PM

after a last place season i think 'welp, that sucked' and after a herb season i think 'welp, that was disappointing'. the difference is marginal.

1/25/2009 7:20:20 PM

So, it's undefeated, ACC winners, national championship or bust, huh?

1/25/2009 7:21:22 PM

im not going to join in this discussion. i got worn out defending herb.


i would like to point out that packboozie and the rest of the hates are pathetic people based on their constant desire to bash and look at things through a negative lens

it will be sure to help you be happy in life.

1/25/2009 7:23:40 PM

boozie also cant let his hurt feelings for herb go either

1/25/2009 7:26:38 PM

Quote :

"So, it's undefeated, ACC winners, national championship or bust, huh?"

there is some middle ground between one sweet sixteen in ten years and that.

1/25/2009 7:27:42 PM