Quote :

"Erios "1) Lowe's left-hand's pinky's fingernail knows more about bball than all of us on TWW combined. If you're going to claim Lowe doesn't know what he's doing, then include a detailed description of WHY you think so. B/c I'm faily sure I haven't seen more than a few SENTENCES from those you making this very bold and most grossly ignorant claim." NyM410 I've never really understood this line of thinking. EVERY coach at this level and any professional sport has more experience and knows the ins and outs better than every fan. That doesn't mean he/she is above criticism..."

Yes, you're absolutely right. Sidney Lowe is not above criticism, not now or ever. But that's not at all what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that, if you're going to argue that the guy can't coach, i might take it seriously if your explanation is longer than 3 freakin' sentences. I'm not stripping anyone of their right to criticize. I'm simply calling out people for making very strong statements with little to no basis for it.

You guys can criticize all you like, but I'm going to call shenanigans where shenanigans are due

Quote :

"-With JJ (first round pick) we finished dead fucking last in the conference. (I know someone is going to bitch about the damn point guard crap)"

So... what? Should we also ignore the fact we had poor play at the PG position... and that each has battled through injuries on top of that?

That's like bitching about how State didn't win the national championship in Philip Rivers' senior year. At some point you have to take ALL of the facts into consideration, not just the ones you happen to be cherry picking

Quote :

"1-Denial 2-Anger 3-Bargaining 4-Depression 5-Acceptance ""

I'm an NC State fan, so put me down for one of each. Actually, gimmie a double order of anger and depression and hold the acceptance

Quote :

"And sorry, I just don't buy into the excuses for being last with a first round pick on the roster. We had the same core of players that made that big run in the ACC tournament the year before plus we added JJ and 2 PGs Lowe recruited. Either Lowe can't coach his PGs to play well enough to NOT be the last place team in the conference or he's a poor judge for talent."

I've already posted at length about the reasons why we've been terrible last year and this year. At least go back and read them before saying this. That's all I ask.

Quote :

"adder A little perspective for someone who was here before Lowe started. 1) All of our "star" players were not starters as freshmen... this is not overwhelming all ACC talent. 2) I am impressed that it took a last second 3pt shot for the #10 team in the nation to beat us. 3) I am impressed that we have not been blown out by any opponent yet (even the #1 team at home). The halftime adjustment to get the ball out of Rices hands was something the Coaching "genius" roy williams couldn't think of or they wouldn't have lost to BC. - Lowe is improving. - It takes time to build a program from a pretty bare cupboard and Lowe has shown enough coaching savy to make me excited for the future. - A rebuilding team needs support from it's fanbase. - Give the man a chance, he deserves it for what he has done for this school in the past. - Prove we are better fans than the fair weather UNC fans."

Amen.

1/26/2009 6:32:39 PM

Chuck put State back on the map for a few years


(cue the "it was Philip, not Chuck" responses)

1/26/2009 6:34:15 PM

Quote :

"Lowe brought us a Championship what did amato ever get us?"

he was part of the famed "white shoes defense" that beat georgia in the 1967 liberty bowl

1/26/2009 6:40:00 PM

[Edited on January 26, 2009 at 6:59 PM. Reason : titty fuck]

1/26/2009 6:58:04 PM

Chuck also had/has the biggest titties in the world. Thats gotta count for something.

Also, I wasn't "comparing" Chuck to Lowe, I was contrasting them. Saying I wanted one fired, I want the other one to stay, but they're both "one of us". Just pointing out that I'm not arguing for Sidney just because he won an NC in '83.

1/26/2009 6:59:14 PM

Quote :

"<3 sydney lowe"

not enough to spell his name correctly

1/26/2009 7:49:38 PM

1/26/2009 7:53:58 PM

epic titties go a long way

1/26/2009 8:11:42 PM

Quote :

"In all honesty, next year should be a solid .500 ACC record, borderline NCAA team regardless of how this season and the rest of recruiting plays out for 09. If that doesn't happen, I'll shut up because we'll need a new coach."

Next year or two years? I need to know when I can justifiably complain about Lowe. It's not going to be better next year. Without Wall/Cousins I have little faith it will be better in 2 years.

Quote :

"Comparing lowe to amato is absolutely ridiculous. He doesn't parade around like a clown, cry in press conferences, get caught up in recruiting scandals etc. Lowe brought us a Championship what did amato ever get us? UNC's treatment of doh was disgusting and certain fans want to do the same thing? Guess what guys we don't have a roster of MCDAA's he is not underperforming with the talent he has we just don't have that great of talent. I guess he is good enough to trick all of you into believing that we have incredible talent?"

1) How so? Chuck only won when he had Philip. Lowe has only won when he had Atsur. I think you can compare the two. Lowe has to prove he can get his own PG in and win.

2) What recruiting scandal was Chuck caught up in?

3) Amato was a part of the best football team this school ever had and won a ACC championship in wrestling. Don't be naive.

4) We had 2 McDs AAs (almost 3 Fells just missed) last year and came in last in the ACC, to say we have little talent would be dumb. Guess how many schools outside of Duke and UNC had 2 McDs AAs on their teams last year.

1/26/2009 10:28:19 PM

^ Arizona State did

1/26/2009 10:43:59 PM

^^nobody said you couldn't complain about Lowe. As a matter of fact, I've said repeatedly that criticism is warranted, even in this thread, so don't be a douche.

What I don't like to see people saying is shit like "lowe should be fired because...." because there is no fucking reason to say that at this point. I also think its ridiculous for people to complain about shit that they can't back up because they don't know shit about basketball. For example, if you say "Lowe sucks b/c he had a first round draft pick on a team that finished last in the league" and end your comment, you are a fucking moron and shouldn't be posting.

Butif you say "Lowe has failed to bring in a competent point guard and I'm beginning to question his ability to develop players"....then that at least you don't sound like a goon. I'll respond with a comment like "well his point guard got hurt just when he was finding his groove after not playing basketball for 2 years and he's still recovering from his injury...plus we have a guy playing as a freshman that looks like he could be solid in a year or 2 but he wasn't recruited to be the answer since lowe focused more energy on 09 and succeded"....etc.

reasonable conversation.



And then there's the other thing boozie....who gives a fuck if you don't think it will get better next year? We're not done recruiting, we already have a good class locked up, and assuming we stay healthy, the guys returning will get a full (healthy) offseason to get better. Point being....you don't know, so why assume? IMO it looks like a better situation next year than this year, plus its only Lowe's 4th season. I will admit that if we suck this bad next season I'll jump on the fire lowe bus but for gods sake, why bitch and moan about it this season? The season isnt even over man.

[Edited on January 26, 2009 at 11:29 PM. Reason : ]

1/26/2009 11:24:06 PM

Quote :

"Point being....you don't know, so why assume?"

Because we are NC State. What do you expect other than the worst?

1/26/2009 11:31:35 PM

expect the worst, hope for the best


I'll say this though. I predicted us to suck last year in august of 07 (although not that bad) and I was one of about 2 people in real life that I actually know who thought we would struggle unless Degand turned out to be a decent PG.

I'm in the same mindset right now, predicting that if we stay healthy between now and the beginning of next season we will be vastly improved.

But its just an opinion.

1/26/2009 11:45:04 PM

you know what bugs me the most about this thread? It's not that some of you are defending Lowe and the job he is doing, that's cool, totally understandable to defend your school's coach. It's just that you are defending him by saying we have to give him time, etc, like we should be ok that our record is shitty. And that we have BEEN shitty for awhile.

It's fucking disheartening to know that there is an entire generation of State fans that are fine with being mediocre. Being OK that we don't compete with Duke and UNC regularly both on and off the court. From Les to Herb to Sid, it has been 20 years of shit with a few highlights sprinkled in. Where is the consistency? (and don't say Herb, he had peaked at State and wasn't a good ACC coach.) Where is the ability to continually improve until State is back at the top of the league REGULARLY.

Step 1 - Fire Fowler
Step 2 - Get a new AD that will be a powerhouse
...
PROFIT.

1/27/2009 12:02:14 AM

Quote :

"Where is the consistency? (and don't say Herb, he had peaked at State and wasn't a good ACC coach.) Where is the ability to continually improve until State is back at the top of the league REGULARLY."

I don't get this. You want us to be in the top of the league but you don't think Herb was there?

Were Herb's 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place finishes not in the top of the league for his last five years?

1/27/2009 12:10:28 AM

round and round we go

1/27/2009 12:12:42 AM

wtf is yalls problem?


HERB IS GONE


I SMOKED IT ALL

1/27/2009 12:12:57 AM

Quote :

"It's just that you are defending him by saying we have to give him time, etc, like we should be ok that our record is shitty. And that we have BEEN shitty for awhile."

what do you want to do, guy? go out there and tell him how to coach right so that we win games? if anything you should not be okay w/ people defending the results (b/c they clearly suck).

you make no sense.

what pisses me off are the people who think we deserve to win and deserve to win now.

1/27/2009 12:14:58 AM

Sigh I just get tired of dumb statements like that....he wants us to be in the top of the ACC but says Herb wasn't there when he obviously was.

1/27/2009 12:15:33 AM

IRRELEVANT

1/27/2009 12:17:23 AM

it sure never felt like it though, did it?

1/27/2009 12:17:25 AM

if you think Herb was there then you deserve to root for a mediocre program. Because Herb Sendek was NEVER (and I mean EVER) going to get this program beyond MAYBE an occasional sweet 16. He was a boring, middling coach that inspired no one.

Honestly, maybe I just have a different outlook since I can remember when Valvano was the coach. I suppose if your entire experience is Les, Herb and Sid, then Herb probably is the best you have seen here.

it's just sad.

1/27/2009 12:39:07 AM

1/27/2009 1:22:56 AM

Quote :

"if you think Herb was there then you deserve to root for a mediocre program. Because Herb Sendek was NEVER (and I mean EVER) going to get this program beyond MAYBE an occasional sweet 16. He was a boring, middling coach that inspired no one. "

Sure, I'll take that mediocrity now over what we have. Finishing in the top half of the ACC and regular NCAA tournaments gave me some hope about the program. And since you seem to be able to have the fortune tellling ability of knowing if a coach can be great, why don't you tell us who we should get.

1/27/2009 7:33:02 AM

Shitty fans ran off our last coach it would be a real shame if shitty fans ran off our coach now before he even has a chance to show what he can do. We have been in EVERY game that we have played. We made Marquette look like a shitty team and they are one of the best teams in the Big East. We made duke look shitty and hung in that game (#1 in the nation). There is a reason teams look bad when they play us. We play good D. Good defense is possible with pretty crappy players. Good offense takes some talent. One player who can drive and create his own shot without turning the ball over and we would be a different team. Lowe has had two seasons so far. The first season wasn't even complete and he was forced to scramble and recruit whoever to fill massive holes in our lineup. He had his starting point guard miss half of the season with a bad hamstring. Next season 2 season ending knee injuries, 1 to his starting point guard. This year rehabbing 2 players and having to play pg by committee. Next year he gets a great recruiting class. He should get four years simply because he has been in the game for longer than most of you have been alive. He has won a national championship and he has proved to be a damn good recruiter. Until you give him time to build his team stfu and support your fucking team. You are a fucking fan not and AD. If he doesn't have it going the way he wants after next year I guarantee he will resign. He loves his school.

1/27/2009 8:49:17 AM

being IN every game doesn't matter!

Al Gore was IN THE GAME in 2000....look where that got him

1/27/2009 9:49:49 AM

i'm guessing you weren't going for the nobel prize w/ that one.

[Edited on January 27, 2009 at 9:51 AM. Reason : btw they're looking for you in chitchat]

1/27/2009 9:51:41 AM

oh boy! where? in the thick chicks thread?

1/27/2009 9:55:01 AM

Good Point TKE.

Glad we fired Al Gore and got the Rev. Al Sharpton instead.

1/27/2009 9:55:22 AM

1/27/2009 9:56:48 AM

Quote :

"being IN every game doesn't matter! "

More of that "I don't care if we lose by 2 or 40, a loss is a losss!!!!!!" philosophy?

That's silly. While it's very frustrating to lose in the last minute, I'd take that over a 30 point blowout anyday.

1/27/2009 9:57:11 AM

a loss is a loss is a loss

i don't care about the margin of victory. i want wins. i want to be ranked. i want to know that we're going to the NCAAs. I want national respect.

losses, whether they're by a point or 30 points, don't get you any of those things

simple as that

1/27/2009 10:03:27 AM

Quote :

"If he doesn't have it going the way he wants after next year I guarantee he will resign."

most of your entire post was a ridiculous rant, but this particular quote is some real stupid speculation. You guarantee it? That is extremely fucking retarded. What about that mantra "Don't ever give up"?

1/27/2009 10:03:39 AM

Lowe has done more for this school and obviously cares about this school so really how is it ridiculous? Do you really want to be like UNC? Pointing out the facts of the situation=ridiculous rant? Our lunatic fanbase who thinks that we are entitled to be ranked because we used to be good is what is wrong.

1/27/2009 10:17:29 AM

Quote :

"i don't care about the margin of victory. i want wins. i want to be ranked. i want to know that we're going to the NCAAs. I want national respect. "

Were you expecting any of those this year?

The fact that we're losing close games to good teams now means there's the possibility of winning those games in the future.

(yeah, looking to the future, but what else can you do? well, except bitch?)

[Edited on January 27, 2009 at 10:39 AM. Reason : ]

1/27/2009 10:29:50 AM

It is a ridiculous rant because:

1) every last thing you posted has already been discussed at length for the past 30 or so pages with the exception of you guaranteeing Lowe's resignation by end of season next year. That guarantee really blew my mind.

2) You generalize other fans OF THE SAME TEAM with differing opinions than you as being shitty

3)

Quote :

"He should get four years simply because he has been in the game for longer than most of you have been alive."

This is wrong. Not saying he shouldn't get a 4th year, because I think he definitely should, but the reasoning that you gave is an outstanding pile of bullshit.

1/27/2009 10:36:35 AM

^I love the fact that you think that you can judge someone's coaching performance who has been playing and coaching basketball for longer than you have been alive. I am recapping because I see the same bullshit arguments from people who think we should be ranked because we are NCSU. You really think Lowe would stick around in his alma mater if he thought he was hurting the team??? Lowe doesn't strike me as someone who took this job for the money.

1/27/2009 10:40:56 AM

Quote :

"I love the fact that you think that you can judge someone's coaching performance who has been playing and coaching basketball for longer than you have been alive."

Here we go again with you presenting all these "facts". First of all, you have know idea how old I am. Secondly, since you claim this to be "fact", where is the evidence that a lengthy tenure of poor coaching in the NBA and being a great college player does not give someone the ability to judge a coaches performance?

[Edited on January 27, 2009 at 10:53 AM. Reason : .]

1/27/2009 10:51:55 AM

Quote :

"Shitty fans ran off our last coach"

here we go again...

1/27/2009 10:55:47 AM

Ok how old are you and what is your basketball experience? Play a couple pick up games? Maybe warm the bench in Highschool? Prove me wrong. OH WAIT if you could have you already would have.

1/27/2009 10:56:43 AM

Quote :

"Were you expecting any of those this year?"

yeah, i expected wins

1/27/2009 10:59:57 AM

^^ okay dude, whatever. You win. Why don't you go make some more guarantees and spread the word that Lowe is above being judged as the head coach of our basketball team, and if they don't believe you just tell them your facts and call them shitty fans.



[Edited on January 27, 2009 at 11:02 AM. Reason : .]

1/27/2009 11:01:41 AM

^^we've won some haven't we? We'll win some more too.

1/27/2009 11:04:05 AM

^^^ Then you sir, are an idiot.

You should have expected close games. You should have expected to see the Herb leftover players still struggle to adapt. You should have expected bad point guard play. But you should not have expected wins this year.

Or did you not watch us play last year??

[Edited on January 27, 2009 at 11:06 AM. Reason : ]

1/27/2009 11:05:28 AM

by adder's logic, anyone born after 1983 1979 will never be able to judge coach Lowe's coaching ability until he retires. It's a fact. I'm going to start calling it "adder's law".

[Edited on January 27, 2009 at 11:09 AM. Reason : 1979 was when Lowe was a freshman]

1/27/2009 11:08:41 AM

goddamn, where is Earl when you need him.

1/27/2009 11:10:12 AM

he's over at the TKE house helping them post, currently.

1/27/2009 11:10:41 AM

Well, after being told how horrible Sendek was and that he couldn't a) develop players, b) win big games, c) get us above a bubble team, I expected we have someone that could build on that and do better.

So yeah, we expected more...or at least show some progress.

1/27/2009 11:10:44 AM

^^^^^ I expect our players to play with some heart... Not this half assed effort that we have all seen this season. If we bust our asses everytime we are on the court and still loose , I will walk away, maybe not happy, but content knowing that we played our hardest. I expect more out of Division 1 scholarship players.

[Edited on January 27, 2009 at 11:12 AM. Reason : ^^^^]

1/27/2009 11:12:03 AM

Earl is a TKE?

no wonder he's always so cranky

1/27/2009 11:12:04 AM