^Who are the "experts" in that article? It's a series of quotes from anti-war activists.

2/18/2005 12:13:10 PM

Army Having Difficulty Meeting Goals In Recruiting
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A40469-2005Feb20?language=printer

Quote :

"By Ann Scott Tyson Washington Post Staff Writer Monday, February 21, 2005 The active-duty Army is in danger of failing to meet its recruiting goals, and is beginning to suffer from manpower strains like those that have dropped the National Guard and Reserves below full strength, according to Army figures and interviews with senior officers . For the first time since 2001, the Army began the fiscal year in October with only 18.4 percent of the year's target of 80,000 active-duty recruits already in the pipeline. That amounts to less than half of last year's figure and falls well below the Army's goal of 25 percent."

[Edited on February 23, 2005 at 12:44 PM. Reason : .]

2/23/2005 12:43:04 PM

Selective Service Ready To Restore The Draft

Quote :

"The President has given the Selective Service System a set of readiness goals to be implemented by March 31, 2005. As part of these performance goals, the System must be ready to be fully operational within 75 days. This means we can look for the Draft to be in operation as early as June 15, 2005."

http://www.NoDraftNoWay.org

3/1/2005 8:38:55 AM

If there is no draft on June 15, 2005 will you admit that you're a moron?

3/1/2005 9:29:55 AM

Quote :

"If there is no draft on June 15, 2005 will you admit that you're a moron?"

Can you show me where I predicted that there definitely would be a draft by some specific date? I never stated that that there will definitely be a draft on June 15.

Once again you've shown that YOU are a moron...not I.

[Edited on March 1, 2005 at 10:05 AM. Reason : 1]

3/1/2005 9:58:05 AM

Can you give me a specific time range?

3/1/2005 10:00:23 AM

wow, talk about twisting the facts...the draft must be ready in a certain number of days, so when those days are up there is automatically a draft....pure bullshit

3/1/2005 3:06:40 PM

Salisburyboy, this is an article addressing the very email that you began this thread with. It dispells a lot of rumors and is actually very informative:

Quote :

"In fact, this year (FY 2005), Congress has told the Air Force and Navy that they are too large. Both services are required to cut thousands of troops from their active duty roles by September 2006. The Air Force must cut about 20,000 and the Navy about 14,000 (that more than makes up for the added troops authorized for the Army and Marines for the year). That "reduction in force" for the Air Force and Navy has resulted in long waits (up to one year) for those wishing to join up. It's interesting to note, however, that even with an active duty strenth of three million in the 80s, our services were still able to fill the ranks entirely with volunteers. Various newspaper and magazine articles make it appear that the military is having problems attracting recruits and retaining members. Nothing could be further from the truth. They interview a few soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines, who state they are getting out, and use that as "proof" that the services are having problems with recruiting and retention. The truth of the matter is that all of the active duty services have made their recruiting and retention goals this year, and for the past eight straight years. The first-term re-enlistment rate is about 50 percent, and for those re-enlisting for third and fourth terms is about 80 to 85 percent (and that's exactly where the services want those rates to be -- any higher would stagnate promotions)."

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/wars/a/draft.htm

3/1/2005 3:25:11 PM

Well I can tell you they wont be drafting into the Air Force, in fact they are so OVER manned right now they are just looking for excuses to kick people out!

^yeah what he said lol... didnt read it at first

[Edited on March 1, 2005 at 5:48 PM. Reason : ^]

3/1/2005 5:47:47 PM

Uncle Sam Wants Tu
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-boot24feb24,0,2453531.column?coll=la-util-op-ed

Quote :

"The military could ease its manpower shortage by letting foreigners join up It is hard to pick up a newspaper these days without reading about Army and Marine Corps recruiting and retention woes. Nonstop deployments and the danger faced by troops in Iraq are making it hard for both services to fill their ranks. The same goes for the National Guard and Reserves. (The Navy and Air Force, which are much less in harm's way, have no such difficulty.) Just to stay at their present sizes, the Army and Marines are shoveling money into more advertising, extra recruiters and bigger enlistment bonuses. And yet it's clear to everyone (except, that is, President Bush and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld) that the U.S. military is far too small to handle all the missions thrown its way. We need to not only maintain the current ranks but also to expand them in order to recover from a 1990s downsizing in which the Army lost 300,000 soldiers. "

[Edited on March 3, 2005 at 12:22 PM. Reason : 1]

3/3/2005 12:22:22 PM

^^^ OMF THAT IS PROPAGANDA BY THE TERRARIST BUSH WHO LAID TNT AT FOUNDATIONZ OF WTC OMG

3/3/2005 12:24:27 PM

Quote :

"We need to not only maintain the current ranks but also to expand them in order to recover from a 1990s downsizing in which the Army lost 300,000 soldiers. "

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA

HAHAHA

the LATimes was championing clinton's reign of terror over the armed services and they worshipped his every move to cripple our military.

now in their haste to criticize bush over ANYTHING - they've admitted the stupidity of their 90's era liberalism.

stupid liberals. always having to backtrack and nuance.

3/3/2005 12:33:51 PM

Just when you think this thread was dead...

3/3/2005 3:11:52 PM

Two Years Later, Iraq War Drains Military
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/washpost/20050319/ts_washpost/a48306_2005mar18

Quote :

"The unexpectedly heavy demands of sustained ground combat are depleting military manpower and gear faster than they can be fully replenished. Shortfalls in recruiting and backlogs in needed equipment are taking a toll, and growing numbers of units have been broken apart or taxed by repeated deployments, particularly in the Army National Guard and the Army Reserve. "

3/20/2005 5:58:47 PM

i think it should be mandatory that every person when they turn 18 or graduate from high school (which ever comes first) should serve 1 year in the miltary, or at least bootcamp, so if the government really had to start a draft the draftees will have working knowledge of the military.

3/20/2005 6:08:27 PM

So you're saying that you want someone to drop out of high school when they turn 18 to be in the military for a year???

3/22/2005 6:38:14 PM

^^ If they ever try and draft me, you're going to be one of the people I come after.

3/22/2005 7:09:30 PM

lets just keep using mercenaries

it makes our death toll look lower

3/22/2005 7:10:33 PM

i say we internationally train the existing iraqi's that are willing to fight, instead of lining them up outside police stations waiting to be bombed.

maybe if we don't consider the iraqis on our side as expendable, we won't have to worry about a lack of fighters.

3/22/2005 7:23:48 PM

Let congress sign up some of their kids first then they can try and draft my ass, that is of course if they can find me first

3/22/2005 8:02:57 PM

i think i may come to love canada as much as i love the good ol US of A


...actually, i hear mexico's emptying out...maybe i'll go down there

[Edited on March 22, 2005 at 8:08 PM. Reason : .]

3/22/2005 8:07:05 PM

Army Orders Further Involuntary Troop Call-Up
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1896&u=/nm/20050323/us_nm/iraq_usa_reserve_dc&printer=1

Quote :

"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Army is ordering more people to serve in Iraq and Afghanistan involuntarily from a seldom-used personnel pool as part of a mobilization that began last summer. They are part of the Army's Individual Ready Reserve, made up of soldiers who have completed their volunteer active-duty service commitment but remain eligible to be called back into uniform for years after returning to civilian life. The Army, straining to maintain troop levels in Iraq, last June said it would summon more than 5,600 people on the IRR in an effort to have about 4,400 soldiers fit for duty in Iraq and Afghanistan after granting exemption requests for medical reasons and other hardships."

[Edited on March 24, 2005 at 1:50 PM. Reason : 1]

3/24/2005 1:49:40 PM

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=27058&archive=true

Quote :

"Army hopes to spark recruiting with PR blitz, possible increase in age cap ARLINGTON, Va. — The Army is planning a new public relations blitz and considering an increase to the age cap for recruits as top leaders acknowledge recruiting efforts are stumbling. Those plans came as Army Secretary Francis Harvey told reporters that recruiters likely will not meet their quotas for new volunteers into active-duty Army over the next two months. “It’s March, I’m not giving up,” Army Secretary Francis Harvey told reporters Wednesday. But he added, “There is a forecast that we will not meet the monthly goal” for March and April. This comes in the wake of the Army missing its active-duty recruiting goals last month by about 25 percent. The Army Guard and Reserve also are struggling to keep enough troops in uniform. The Reserve is 10 percent behind in recruiting quotas this year and the Guard is now 25 percent behind in recruiting efforts, according to Pentagon figures."

3/26/2005 12:10:39 PM

The March issue of the Washington Monthly, a magazine with a liberal Democratic audience, argues a draft is the only way "America can remain the world's superpower."

The Case for the Draft
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2005/0503.carter.html

[Edited on March 29, 2005 at 3:25 PM. Reason : 2]

3/29/2005 3:23:49 PM

look at all your posts.....you're freakn' NUTS!!!!!

3/29/2005 4:54:23 PM

**********************************************************

Draft may be needed in a year, military analysts warn
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0330draft30-ON.html

Quote :

"WASHINGTON - If American forces aren't pulling out of Iraq in a year, a draft will be needed to meet manpower requirements, military analysts warned Wednesday. With recruitment lagging and no end in sight for U.S. forces in Iraq, the "breaking point" for the nation's all-volunteer military will be mid-2006, agreed Lawrence Korb, a draft opponent and assistant defense secretary in the Reagan administration, and Phillip Carter, a conscription advocate and former Army captain."

***************************************************************

3/31/2005 9:49:12 AM

we wont need it next year cause according to you the date its going to start is coming up real soon

3/31/2005 9:51:29 AM

Why oh why did you leave out this part? I'll bet I know - because it doesn't fit in with your cute little conspiracy theory!

Quote :

""The 'D-word' is the farthest thing from my thoughts," Army Secretary Francis Harvey said at a Pentagon press briefing last week. He said the all-volunteer force has proven its value and applauded the performance of soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. "When you get over there, there's no difference between the active, the Reserves and the National Guard. The quality is high across the board. ... It's seamless," he said. During his re-election campaign, President Bush declared flatly that he would not reinstate the draft. And there is little support for conscription on Capitol Hill. "Today, no leading politician in either party will come anywhere near the idea -- the draft having replaced Social Security as the third rail of American politics," wrote Carter."

3/31/2005 9:54:30 AM

Quote :

"I'll bet I know - because it doesn't fit in with your cute little conspiracy theory"

Oooooooooooooooohhhhh!

Is that the best you got? To label any and every one of my positions and arguments as "conspiracy theories"?

Anyone with common sense can see that some sort of draft is going to be necessary at some point in the future with the way things are going (ie, recruiting down, etc). This has nothing to do with theories or conspiracies. It is simply looking at the reality of the situation.

3/31/2005 10:59:05 AM

So Bush and his administration said there won't be a draft? Well, excuuuuuuuuuse me!!!! That's bulletproof evidence there won't be a draft!! When's the last time the Bush administration lied to the American people?!!! NEVER!

Congressman Tim Ryan discussing the draft on the floor of the House of Representatives
http://www.willthomas.net/Video/Tim-Ryan-Congressman.mov (video)



[Edited on March 31, 2005 at 11:09 AM. Reason : 1]

3/31/2005 11:06:17 AM

What does your little video prove?

Absolutely nothing. Its partisan politics, buddy.

As far as I know, both bills that you mentioned when you began this inane thread (S 89 and HR 163) have been defeated.

3/31/2005 11:17:21 AM

You wish I was your "buddy." Run along now...

BTW, I see your MO has now shifted to weak attempts to patronize others with rhetoric like "little" and "cute." How pathetic.

When are you going to shift back to flat out fabrications and misrepresentations of my statements and positions?

[Edited on March 31, 2005 at 11:24 AM. Reason : 2]

3/31/2005 11:18:33 AM

Quote :

"As far as I know, both bills that you mentioned when you began this inane thread (S 89 and HR 163) have been defeated."

Why can't you say anything about this?

Oh I forgot, you can never defend your stance, you just go off on diatribes about being patronized/slandered/misrepresented/etc.

3/31/2005 11:25:30 AM

Quote :

"Oh I forgot, you can never defend your stance, you just go off on diatribes about being patronized/slandered/misrepresented/etc. "

Well, you shifted back to fabrications and lies very shortly I see. I "can never defend" my stance?! Who doesn't see that this is a flat out lie?

The reason I discuss your pathetic attempts to patronize me and your numerous attempts to misrepresent my position IS BECAUSE OF YOUR ACTIONS. If you don't want me discussing those subjects, don't bring that pathetically weak patronizing bs and don't constantly misrepresent and lie about my statements and positions. Personally, I hope you continue with these pathetic MOs, because it demonstrates the complete bankruptcy of your positions and that you have little to no substantive rational arguments to support your positions.

Carry on.

3/31/2005 11:35:02 AM

Quote :

"Oh I forgot, you can never defend your stance, you just go off on diatribes about being patronized/slandered/misrepresented/etc."

Thank you again for proving my point.

Here is my rational argument again:

Quote :

"As far as I know, both bills that you mentioned when you began this inane thread (S 89 and HR 163) have been defeated."

Feel free to address it.

3/31/2005 11:37:17 AM

30,000 U.S. military troops not citizens
http://interestalert.com/brand/siteia.shtml?Story=st/sn/0405000eaaa02ac2.upi&Sys=rmmiller&Fid=NATIONAL&Type=News&Filter=National%20News

Quote :

"WASHINGTON, April 5 (UPI) -- More than 20,000 military personnel have become U.S. citizens since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, according to the Pentagon. Another 5,000 have applications pending for citizenship, with that process being expedited for military members, shortening the wait from about nine months to 60 days. There are still about 30,000 active duty and 11,000 Guard and Reserve personnel in the military who are not U.S. citizens, according to Under Secretary of Defense for Personnel David Chu. He testified Tuesday before the Senate Armed Services Committee on personnel issues facing the military."

[Edited on April 6, 2005 at 8:27 AM. Reason : 1]

4/6/2005 8:27:03 AM

Whats wrong with foreigners?

4/6/2005 9:39:51 AM

wow, you are still trying to drive the argument that the draft is coming

bush said no draft several times. it wont happen.

4/6/2005 11:49:06 PM

Quote :

"4/9/2004 2:07:42 PM"

Well, Salsbury, it has been a year. What more evidence do you want beyond it not happening? I suppose we could put our money where our mouth is. If it goes another year without an open draft, then I'll give you $100... Then again, I know you'd never pay up, so why bother.

But what I want to know is, would you make such a bet? How firmly do you believe there is going to be a draft "SOON"? 90% sure? (would you bet $10 to collection $100?)

4/7/2005 1:10:10 AM

Quote :

"As far as I know, both bills that you mentioned when you began this inane thread (S 89 and HR 163) have been defeated."

You never responded to this, so I just did my own research. A link provided by the page showing the letter on page one of this thread told me this about them:

S 89:

Quote :

"1/7/2003: Read twice and referred to the Senate Committee on Armed Services. 12/31/2004: This bill is "dead". It was not passed into law before the end of the 108th Congress."

HR 163:

Quote :

"10/5/2004 Failed of passage/not agreed to in House. Status: On motion to suspend the rules and pass the bill Failed by the Yeas and Nays: (2/3 required): 2 - 402 (Roll no. 494)."

http://www.hslda.org/legislation/national/2003/s89/default.asp

Judging by the 2-402 vote for HR 163, I feel that it is safe to say that even lawmakers are strongly opposed to a new draft. It would require a whole new slew of legislation to start one at this point. Feel free to let us know when another draft bill is introduced. In the meantime, go get a blog so we can stop having to read your thoughts on every little thing that happens and how the NWO is responsible.

4/7/2005 10:07:56 AM

"An army of the unwilling"
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/GD26Ak01.html

Quote :

"NEW YORK - At the end of last month, the US Selective Service System issued a report assuring President George W Bush that it would be ready to implement a draft within 75 days. While stirring up a storm of speculation, this report may actually be the least compelling harbinger of military conscription. Far more dire is the skyrocketing need for troops amid plummeting supply. More than 300,000 of the 482,000 soldiers in the US Army are already deployed abroad, predominantly in Iraq, Afghanistan, South Korea and the former Yugoslavia. The ratio of two soldiers abroad for every one at home is the opposite of what military strategists say is necessary to maintain a long-term deployment. It would take 100,000 new troops at home to correct this discrepancy, but the government concedes that new troops are not coming in. All four military services missed their enlistment quotas last year, according to one analysis, and regular military, reserve and National Guard recruitment levels are at a 30-year low. ...Jeffrey Record, a visiting professor at the Air War College, said in a January 2004 report that the US Army is "near the breaking point". And Charles Moskos, creator of the army's "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy on homosexual soldiers, and an adviser to four presidents on military affairs, was quoted last July as saying, "We cannot achieve the number of troops we need in Iraq without a draft." Since Vietnam, those who cried "draft" have been laughed at. But the combination of increasing troop needs, a shortage of new recruits and a hawkish administration that is now casting shadowy glances Iran, Syria, and Korea has led the US media, from Rolling Stone to Time magazine, once again to take up the question of conscription. "

5/2/2005 12:43:05 PM

Quote :

"London Daily Telegraph May 2, 2005 Pg. 1 US Hoping To Start Its Withdrawal From Iraq In December By Oliver Poole, in Baghdad The American military has set a target of December for handing over responsibility for security to Iraqi army and police units, says a classified document being circulated among senior officers. It is the first time that a date has been put forward for the phasing back of US involvement in controlling the insurgency that has raged for more than two years. Iraqi police at the scene of a car bombing in Baghdad yesterday. 98 police were killed in March. The proposal envisages that after the planned election of a five-year parliament in December the American military would withdraw from patrolling, starting a gradual pull-out from the country. America and Britain have declined to detail an exit strategy in public for fear of encouraging insurgents and being seen to cut and run. However, the deadline illustrates American confidence that the development of Iraq's security forces is proceeding as planned. The police now number almost 87,000 officers and the army has 72,500 troops. A further 19,000 men and women are being trained. An American officer confirmed that the withdrawal document had been circulated. He emphasised that it was intended as "prudent planning". "No one in the chain of command is pushing us to complete our work faster or compromise our developed processes to meet some arbitrary timeline," he said. Mowaffak Al-Rubaie, Iraq's chief security adviser, told CNN's Late Edition yesterday that larger withdrawals would not take place until the middle of next year. The challenge of meeting the timetable was reinforced yesterday as rebels continued the wave of attacks that followed the announcement last week of the composition of the new government after three months of negotiations. Thirty men, believed to be from a Sunni militia, stormed a checkpoint in the south of Baghdad, killing five policemen. An interior ministry official said some of the victime could have been asleep. Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, an al-Qa'eda associate, claimed responsibility on the internet. A young girl died and 10 Iraqis were injured when a car bomb exploded as an American convoy was attacked in south-east Baghdad. There was no immediate word of US casualties but at least one Humvee was blown apart. A suicide car bomb exploded at the funeral of a Kurdish official in the northern city of Tal Afar, 90 miles from the Syrian border, killing 20 Iraqis and wounding more than 30. The government confirmed the widely held belief that the security situation had markedly worsened this month. Nearly 570 Iraqis have been killed, a 48 per cent rise on March, and 668 wounded. Civilians made up the vast majority of the dead, with 98 policemen and 41 soldiers among those killed. The interior and defence ministries put insurgent losses at 64. US military confidence in the security forces has grown in recent months, with Iraqi army and police units conducting several independent operations that resulted in the capture of large rebel cells and the discovery of several significant weapons caches. Coalition troops formerly described their role as training Iraqi units; the new message is that they "mentor" them. This involves Iraqi forces conducting their own missions, often accompanied by US and British advisers. Last month Jack Straw, the Foreign Secretary, said he expected British troops to start withdrawing from Iraq next year, a move that would fit in with the proposed American timetable. But for that to happen the rise in rebel activity would have to be halted and elections in December conducted as planned. Another major problem is that as many as 50,000 of those on the Iraqi security payroll may be "ghost soldiers" who collect their pay cheques but do not turn up. *Credible reports of threats against the US are at their lowest since the September 11 attacks as terrorists focus instead on Americans in Iraq and Europe, Washington said."

[Edited on May 2, 2005 at 12:44 PM. Reason : /quote]

5/2/2005 12:44:29 PM

Quote :

"Bush: I know putting artificial deadlines won't work. My opponent at one time said, "Well, get me elected, I'll have them out of there in six months." You can't do that and expect to win the war on terror."

http://www.factcheck.org/article271.html

5/2/2005 12:46:23 PM

Quote :

"...Jeffrey Record, a visiting professor at the Air War College, said in a January 2004 report that the US Army is "near the breaking point". And Charles Moskos, creator of the army's "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy on homosexual soldiers, and an adviser to four presidents on military affairs, was quoted last July as saying, "We cannot achieve the number of troops we need in Iraq without a draft.""

If the article included information less than 10 months old it would be more applicable.

Maybe you missed the last post:

Quote :

"Judging by the 2-402 vote for HR 163, I feel that it is safe to say that even lawmakers are strongly opposed to a new draft. It would require a whole new slew of legislation to start one at this point. Feel free to let us know when another draft bill is introduced. In the meantime, go get a blog so we can stop having to read your thoughts on every little thing that happens and how the NWO is responsible."

5/2/2005 12:53:49 PM

You got to read this. An army recruiter encourages a kid to use a phony diploma and to beat drug tests so he can join the Army.

How Far Will The Army Go?
http://news4colorado.com/localnews/local_story_118125046.html

Quote :

"Apr 28, 2005 How far will U.S. Army recruiters go to bring young men and women into their ranks? An Arvada West High School senior recently decided to find out. The following is CBS4 Investigator Rick Sallinger's report.."

Recruiters are under a lot of pressure to bring in recruits, given that the Army is so desperate to get recruits right now. I wouldn't be surprised, however, if this kind of conduct is condoned by the higher ups in the Army.

[Edited on May 2, 2005 at 1:11 PM. Reason : 1]

5/2/2005 1:10:52 PM

thats funny

i remember hearing about people doing that on purpose throughout american history.

i hardly consider that supportive to your cause

5/2/2005 1:14:39 PM

Yeah, I came close to enlisting in the reserves in 2000. The recruiter tried to fucked me over then too, even though it was peacetime. Recruiters have been shitbags for all of human history.

Whats funny is that the next summer I was working at GNC, and the same recruiter came in during his lunch break (he didn't recognize me) and bought supplements to help him pass his drug test.

5/2/2005 1:19:15 PM

Efraim Halevy, the former chief of the Mossad and the National Security advisor to Ariel Sharon, hints that a "severe scenario" will be the pretext for more U.S. military action in the Middle East and the reinstatement of the draft. Could this "severe scenario" be another government engineered terrorist incident like 9/11?

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/568076.html

Quote :

"In a visit to the United States two weeks ago, I was told by several well-informed observers that should one of the more severe scenarios come to pass, the United States will have no choice but to deepen its presence in the Middle East. To that end, it will have to renew the draft, to ensure that there are enough forces to deal with developing situations in countries like Saudi Arabia."

Commentary on the Haaretz article:

"Mossad: US Must Invade Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iran"
http://conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=38&contentid=2131&page=1

Quote :

"In his highly disingenuous screed "The Coming Pax Americana," former Mossad chief and propaganda-meister Efraim Halevy makes the case for the US, as a proxy of Israel, of course, to invade not only Iran, but also Syria and Saudi Arabia, once again under the guise of "bringing democracy" to the Middle East."

[Edited on May 2, 2005 at 1:41 PM. Reason : 2]

5/2/2005 1:37:40 PM

How many of your predictions have come true?

5/2/2005 1:42:32 PM

Quote :

"After more than three years of war in Iraq and Afghanistan, the all-volunteer military is facing its toughest test yet. In April, the Army missed its recruiting goal for the third month in a row, short by nearly 2,800 recruits, or 42 percent off its target. And for the first time in 10 years, the Marine Corps missed its recruiting goal for the last four months."

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7802712/

5/10/2005 4:41:10 PM