Quote :

""water, water everywhere. but not a drop to drink"."

touche

[Edited on February 28, 2008 at 1:11 PM. Reason : In case people are wondering what the touche is for]

2/28/2008 1:09:08 PM

Quote :

"yeah . . . I def. get the impression that if Raleigh does run out of water the people who run the city would be running around like a chicken with its head cut off and be like "well we didn't do anything because we thought it was inconceivable that we would actually run out of water" "

can't the governor declare a state of emergency and tell Pepsi to stop bottling water from falls lake and other water using businesses?

2/28/2008 1:09:51 PM

Quote :

"You think Pepsi will stop bottling aquafina out of falls and we'll get rid of the largest user of water in the system once it's "empty"? I sure hope so. I cant believe they havent told Pepsi to go elsewhere. But no $$ is more important than residents having drinking water."

Here is the list as published by ABC 11 Eyewitness News for the 2005/2006 Fiscal year:
#1 - Town of Knightdale (during the fiscal year, Knightdale had not merged its water system with the COR, therefore, they were considered an individual customer) 1,507,000 GPD
#2 - NC State University 1,264,000 GPD
#3 - State of North Carolina (Government Facilities, NCDOT, etc.) 900,000 GPD
#4 - Ajinomoto (1st Private business in the list, a pharmaceutical company that makes amino acids) 553,000 GPD
#5 - Wake County (Same as state of North Carolina) 466,000 GPD
#6 - City of Raleigh (another gov't entity) 465,000 GPD
#7 - Mallinckrodt (another pharmaceutical company) 444,000 GPD
#8 - Pepsi 406,000 GPD
#9 - Town of Holly Springs 367,000 GPD
#10 - UDRT (a real-estate company) 309,000 GPD

***Note: Pepsi only uses 1/3 of the water per day that NCSU uses.***

Source: http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news&id=5929567

In light of the current situation, the conservation efforts are necessary, but there are infrastructure improvements that need to be addressed as well.

What about pumping reclaimed water from the Neuse River Waste Water Treament Plant back to Falls Lake? I know this sounds gross, but any town upstream of Raleigh dumps their reclaimed water back into the basin. Why can't we do it? Everything that goes into the sewer system gets treated and recirculated into the system somehow. Why can't we use that to our benefit?

Another way for some of the biggest users to "conserve", would be to use reclaimed water to fill any non-potable water needs, such as chiller water make-up, fire protection, irrigation, etc. OWASA and UNC have already partnered to start moving in this direction. There have been several capital improvement projects in the past two years, and some that are still under construction to make this happen. Why can't COR and NCSU do the same thing? I would be willing to bet that money is the #1 reason. Pipes are expensive. But what would you rather have, a more reliable source of water during unusually dry spells, or Medicare, Welfare, or some of the other frivolous (in my personal opinion) ways the government spends the tax money?

[Edited on February 28, 2008 at 3:49 PM. Reason : nvmd]

2/28/2008 3:45:13 PM

Quote :

"What about pumping reclaimed water from the Neuse River Waste Water Treament Plant back to Falls Lake? I know this sounds gross, but any town upstream of Raleigh dumps their reclaimed water back into the basin. Why can't we do it? Everything that goes into the sewer system gets treated and recirculated into the system somehow. Why can't we use that to our benefit?"

wouldn't do any good. The same amount of water that would be gained from the waste water would have to be released from the dam to maintain downstream water quality.

2/28/2008 11:27:26 PM

seems like we been kinda getting more rain lately...we got to have at least 130 days left imo

2/28/2008 11:36:59 PM

dnl has spoken. put out the lawn sprinklers!

2/28/2008 11:44:24 PM

Quote :

"wouldn't do any good. The same amount of water that would be gained from the waste water would have to be released from the dam to maintain downstream water quality."

So, you are saying it doesn't matter how much we conserve, as long as what we use makes it into the sewer system, if we don't use it, they release a certain amount anyway. That sounds self defeating.

In other words, if we aren't having any water coming into the lake, the Army Corp of Engineers still releases water downstream?

2/29/2008 12:37:49 PM

Quote :

"So, you are saying it doesn't matter how much we conserve, as long as what we use makes it into the sewer system, if we don't use it, they release a certain amount anyway. That sounds self defeating. In other words, if we aren't having any water coming into the lake, the Army Corp of Engineers still releases water downstream?"

not saying that at all. I'm just going by the numbers

since stage 2 restrictions, Raleigh has been using about 38.8 million gal a day
They recently cut the flow from the dam down to 50 ft3/s . . . so about 32.3 million gal a day.

All of the water that is used doesn't go back through the sanitary sewer. Lets say about 80% does (no idea if it is even that high, or maybe it is higher) . . . that makes the wastewater flow back into the river about 31 million gal per day. So the downstream flow into the river is a little more than 60 million gal per day. If you take away roughly half that flow, down stream water quality goes down a lot.

The flow from the dam was cut from 55 ft3/s down to 50. Raleigh is has been trying to get the Corps to cut it down to about 17 million gal per day (like 26 ft3/s). To do this, all the down stream cities have to sign off on it. And even then it would only last until the fish start spawning.

And I have no idea what they would do if the incoming flow dried up.

dnl was almost right . . . 124 days left

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/2454832/
http://www.wral.com/news/news_briefs/story/2505933/
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/2507961/

2/29/2008 1:42:18 PM

Quote :

"And I have no idea what they would do if the incoming flow dried up."

No one does...and that is the problem.

2/29/2008 3:29:51 PM

^^thx

2/29/2008 3:30:24 PM

http://www.almanac.com/weatherforecast/us/4

[Edited on February 29, 2008 at 3:52 PM. Reason : .]

2/29/2008 3:48:53 PM

http://waterdata.usgs.gov/nc/nwis/dv/?dd_cd=04_00065_00001,04_00065_00002,04_00065_00003&format=img_default&site_no=02087182&set_logscale_y=0&begin_date=20000101&end_date=20080228

2/29/2008 3:48:57 PM

^ are the spikes tropical systems?

2/29/2008 3:51:20 PM

It's crazy how consistent 2004 was.

2/29/2008 4:20:24 PM

2004 was the last year i had that i liked...2005 2006 and 2007 all sucked

2/29/2008 4:20:58 PM

the Corps agreed to cut the flow out of the damn again. Down to about 17 million gallons per day.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/2514946/

3/3/2008 11:29:44 AM

They know we're just as screwed as we think we are. <3

3/4/2008 3:44:36 PM

damn, again?

3/4/2008 8:13:02 PM

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/2525204/

As a related note. $25k a day in fines? Our city council is fucking crazy (whether you agree with the ordinance or not, the fine is way the fuck out of line).

I swear, when I buy a house, it's not going to be on anything the crazy ass city council of raleigh controls.

3/4/2008 10:28:35 PM

Grease is a much bigger concern than food waste. If idiots would stop pouring bacon grease down the disposal it wouldn't be nearly as big an issue.

3/4/2008 11:20:51 PM

this was a nice addition to the drought

RDU recorded nearly 2 inches of rain in a 3 hour timespan

3/5/2008 3:21:53 AM

damn, 25K? they're out of their fucking minds. but then again, i never really expect the city council to ever really know what the hell they are doing

3/5/2008 3:57:05 AM

heres to hoping we get more rain on friday

3/5/2008 9:11:16 AM

The disposal thing isn't really related to the drought, is it?

It is, however, extremely dumb. I think a lot of people don't realize how bad it is to but grease into the sewer system, though. Instead of banning all disposals, they just just work on keeping people from being so retarded ... but I guess that's impossible.

3/5/2008 9:17:36 AM

In Las Vegas they get an average of 2 inches per day. Sure the water is down there, you can see it in Lake Meade. They are using water like it's going out of style there.

My point is Raleigh, once again didn't plan for the population growth.

3/5/2008 9:22:16 AM

^I think you mean 2 inches of rain per year.

3/5/2008 9:35:19 AM

correct...my bad...I can't edit it anymore.

3/5/2008 10:17:50 AM

We need this to happen a couple more times:

3/5/2008 10:25:06 AM

why would you throw grease down the drain? i can't wait until my jar fills up so i can have a tasty smoothie!

3/5/2008 1:39:45 PM

^haha, I had a jar like that when I lived in wolf village. One of my roommates kept throwing it out because he thought the funky smell in the kitchen came from it. In reality, it came from forcing his left over food down the drain and from the other roommate that only cooked fish on his george foreman and never cleaned it.

Quote :

"Sure the water is down there, you can see it in Lake Meade. "

they say Lake Mead is going to run dry in the not too distant future because of water usage from it and from upstream




apparently Falls Lake has already gone up more than a foot from yesterdays rain
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/2528696/


[Edited on March 5, 2008 at 1:59 PM. Reason : ]

3/5/2008 1:51:14 PM

thats really good news. i hope the next band of showers really hit hard. it would really nice if Falls Lake could be down to about 4 feet by the end of the weekend.

3/5/2008 2:10:21 PM

You mean down by only 4 feet? Yeah it would be nice.
Full is what these days? 250.1?

I've read 250 and 251 as different figures. Not sure which is right.

3/5/2008 7:22:51 PM

The water supply is up to an estimated 164 days with an 80 percent chance of rain Friday evening.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/2534839/

3/6/2008 4:50:40 PM

yeah, but when will they decide to lift some of the restrictions and start allowing more water to flow past falls lake dam?

3/6/2008 7:44:41 PM

^ I hope not, we'll be risking in real trouble come summer if they do.

3/6/2008 9:03:32 PM

Quote :

" Falls Lake could be down to about 4 feet "

Quote :

"You mean down by only 4 feet? "

i think thats what i said. not raining too hard in n. cary at the moment.
heres to hoping a long rainy day

3/7/2008 9:15:13 AM

Hey! Lets ease up on those restrictions now!!!
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/2534839/

3/7/2008 9:28:39 AM

did you read the article or just the headline?

3/7/2008 9:29:43 AM

I read the article.

3/7/2008 10:42:20 AM

yeah, lets go ahead and not prepare for the summer
they should keep the restrictions in place until the fall unless we get an ungodly amount of rain

3/7/2008 11:25:41 AM

^ yeah, but that would require meeker and the city council to
1. be intelligent
2. plan ahead
3. stop trying to appease developers on an already strained system


They aren't going to do any of the above.

3/7/2008 11:27:36 AM

Let's face it, politics is a business, and most people don't understand that all the water problems aren't magically fixed by the rain we've been having. If any of us were mayor we'd probably at least consider the same thing, because not getting re-elected sucks. And it's not like he's telling everyone to go water their grass 24 hours per day. He's just trying to give some people their livelihood back.

3/7/2008 11:34:32 AM

they need to do something about the fact that falls lake is no longer capable of supplying water to the growing wake county area and come up with some long-term solutions.

i'm sure there are good reasons why - and maybe some of you civil or environmental or whatever engineers can enlighten me - but why did they not trench the lake while it was at it's lowest point to make room for more capacity?

3/7/2008 12:36:49 PM

^^
He wouldn't have to "give people their livlihoods back" or worry half as much about reelection if he had done something about Falls lake as Dirty Monkey said.

Meeker has repeatedly claimed that the increase in raleigh's population has nothing to do with the water shortages, which is really insane because the population has drastically increased since 2000 and our water supply has not increased at ALL. He's not even giving a decent reason for why it cant be done, he's just refusing to admit there is a problem at all.

Delusional Idiots don't make good mayors. I'll be voting for someone else as soon as that election is up for grabs, I dont care at this point what he does- he's screwed up far too badly already.

[Edited on March 7, 2008 at 12:47 PM. Reason : .]

3/7/2008 12:46:03 PM

Quote :

"but why did they not trench the lake while it was at it's lowest point to make room for more capacity?"

I thought this was addressed earlier in the thread: apparently, ACoE can't do things like that with environmental impact studies beforehand, which are not fast.

3/7/2008 1:40:35 PM

Quote :

"Skwinkle All American 3137 Posts user info edit post Let's face it, politics is a business, and most people don't understand that all the water problems aren't magically fixed by the rain we've been having. If any of us were mayor we'd probably at least consider the same thing, because not getting re-elected sucks. And it's not like he's telling everyone to go water their grass 24 hours per day. He's just trying to give some people their livelihood back. "

boo yah this chick is on MY side

[Edited on March 7, 2008 at 1:49 PM. Reason : they need to build more reseviors....infractructure baby...think of all this iraq money lol]

3/7/2008 1:47:43 PM

They're already planning to build a new reservoir out north of Knightdale I think. Goes back to the in-class presentation we had in my hydrology class. it's 15-25 years out, because of all the environmental concerns, all the property they have to buy, the research and reassurances they have to make about the flooding from it that they will cause, etc. This will generally only get them the reservoir too, they will still have to hook up a pumping system to it after that.

The best way this situation could be alleviated would be if federal and state governments could recognize the severity of the situation (which will probably continue to repeat itself and get worse and worse as growth continues) and help to green light the reservoir by reducing the waiting period to get stuff approved. Other areas of the country no doubt want to build new reservoirs and such too, but our area needs them the most right now because our city leaders are horrible at long-term planning. If they don't get us the new reservoir a bit faster than the most optimistic estimate of 15 years, shit's probably going to get real ugly around here at least once before it's done (i.e. oh crap stage 3 restrictions, water rationing, blahblahblah).

3/7/2008 2:00:55 PM

Quote :

"I thought this was addressed earlier in the thread: apparently, ACoE can't do things like that with environmental impact studies beforehand, which are not fast."

sorry, i missed it. then again i may have even asked the question earlier and completely forgot to look for a reply

makes sense though. i guess it would take a long time to get approval for that kind of thing

3/7/2008 2:03:33 PM

Quote :

"Hey! Lets ease up on those restrictions now!!!"

I can't say anything about power-washing or landscaping, but pools are a fraction of a percent of the problem. Georgia has already lifted their restrictions on pools and they are hurting more than we are.

3/7/2008 2:27:15 PM

I HATE VERTICAL SCROLL BARS

3/7/2008 2:29:20 PM