Quote :

"He apparently doesn't care what Hillary was doing for the majority of the past decade, while Obama was making nice speeches. "

or you know you could be honest and mention his time in the Illinois Senate.

so now like many of clinton's most ardent supporters, you have rallied behind mccain. pretty funny really.

[Edited on February 21, 2008 at 4:02 PM. Reason : .]

2/21/2008 4:00:04 PM

It's all pro-Obama and anti-Obama

Nobody really gives a fuck about Clinton or McCain

[Edited on February 21, 2008 at 4:06 PM. Reason : ]

2/21/2008 4:06:20 PM

^ ^
Damn. I was actually going to go back and add "Next Step: Expand Search For Obama's Achievements to His Time As State Senator." Looks like my prediction came true.

Everyone is SURE he did something important. So far, everyone has said it was as a US Senator. Now that it turns out he really hasn't done anything worth noting during his whole year in office, we can start moving even farther back in time.

I just think it's funny everyone knows the answer they want (Obama has done something of legislative importance) and never really looked to see it was true. Who knows, maybe they'll eventually come up with something.

[Edited on February 21, 2008 at 4:10 PM. Reason : ``]

2/21/2008 4:09:29 PM

you just said that before the us senate, obama was just making pretty speeches. that's patently false and you know it.

2/21/2008 4:11:41 PM

^^ You're delusional

[Edited on February 21, 2008 at 4:12 PM. Reason : ]

2/21/2008 4:12:08 PM

^^ No, it isn't false. Nothing I said excludes the fact he was a state senator. Indeed, he made pretty speeches AND was a state senator. See how that works? They are not mutually exclusive.

You're an English Major, I'm guessing? Or, gulp, Sociology?

2/21/2008 4:16:59 PM

Quote :

"You're an English Major, I'm guessing? Or, gulp, Sociology?"

gulp, aerospace engineering.

and so we should mention what clinton was doing in the past decade in the senate, yet only mention that obama was making speeches?



[Edited on February 21, 2008 at 4:20 PM. Reason : .]

2/21/2008 4:19:15 PM

Wow.

2/21/2008 4:20:28 PM

what do you have to say, fucker? am i not as smart as i should be because i don't support clinton?

2/21/2008 4:21:12 PM

Obama has the "college educated" demographic on lock

2/21/2008 4:24:53 PM

and i'm really up his alley because i have a graduate degree and am working on a second!

2/21/2008 4:25:47 PM

terpball,

I think that says more about college kids than it does about Obama.

You would think having a degree would make you less prone to be moved by stirring speeches about abstract mush like "Change" and "Hope". Apparently, it's the other way around. Don't ask me why.

2/21/2008 4:28:50 PM

so you're not going to address your little stab at me i guess? why does my major make you so emo?

2/21/2008 4:29:42 PM

^ Well, my "stab" has nothing to do with your politics. It just seemed funny you didn't realize that one can give pretty speeches and be a state senator. In fact, I would argue that's at least 60+% of being a politician.

Don't be offended. I'm sure you're a very nice, smart and well rounded person. Aerospace Engineering is complex stuff and I congratulate you on getting through it and into grad school.

[Edited on February 21, 2008 at 4:33 PM. Reason : ``]

2/21/2008 4:33:02 PM

Quote :

"You would think having a degree would make you less prone to be moved by stirring speeches about abstract mush like "Change" and "Hope". Apparently, it's the other way around. Don't ask me why. "

Yeah, apparently you're just really smart and all these people with degrees are idiots

2/21/2008 4:33:54 PM

terpball,

Not smarter. Just more concerned with policy than rhetoric.

2/21/2008 4:35:29 PM

I think the smartest thing to do would be to look at the whole picture... what would really happen if this person is elected into office? How will affect your life? The lives of others?

2/21/2008 4:38:09 PM

^^i love how every clinton supporter assumes that everyone who supports obama does so because of his speaking. admittedly, that's why he first captured my attention at the democratic convention. but that's not why he's maintained my support.

2/21/2008 4:40:05 PM

^ Hence the point of this thread.

I wanted people to go into detail about why they support Obama. In particular, I wanted to hear their opinions on his policy positions. The fact that most people posting in this thread don't want to do that is pretty indicative I think.

But If you would care to share, I am willing to listen.

[Edited on February 21, 2008 at 4:43 PM. Reason : ``]

2/21/2008 4:42:54 PM

i heard he has a health care that hillary said doesnt cover like 15 million people

how bout yall ppl discuss that

2/21/2008 4:43:51 PM

his plan covers everyone who wants healthcare - it may even get you proper treatment for your downs DNL

2/21/2008 4:48:03 PM

^^^no. you're interested in criticizing anything anyone who supports obama puts forth. i mean look at every response you have when someone puts up policies of obama's that they support.

2/21/2008 4:52:00 PM

drunk,

I went to great length discussing Obama's health care plan in this thread. I don't feel like doing it again. But I will say that I distrust any numbers at this point since none of the plans have filled in all the details. Obama's plan seeks to cover everyone by mandating all children have health insurance and that insurance companies sell basic policies to people on demand. While adults don't have a mandate, they will be punished if they wait until they are sick to seek insurance.

How may people will actually buy insurance (and how affordable it will be for those that do) will depend on effective those punishments are at getting people to sign up when they're healthy.

But as terpball said, everyone is "covered" in the sense that everyone can buy insurance whenever they want.

Of course, there's a litany of problems here. If you're really interested, read my comments on page 1 of this thread and page 8.

2/21/2008 4:55:06 PM

Quote :

"Of course, there's a litany of problems here"

There will always be a problem, there will always be people bitching. At least his plan is a huge improvement, and hey, it might help some fuckin sick people.

2/21/2008 5:04:05 PM

^ Actually, I think Obama's plan would be worse than what we have now. To the extent his "punishments" don't encourage everyone to get health insurance, that will mean higher premiums for those of us who do.

Also, Obama's plan ignores the other major problem in health care at the moment--rising costs. Essentially, his plan is about extending coverage to as many people as possible. That's something I agree with, but without a fundamental change in the way health care services are provided, this will only exasperbate the cost problem by increasing the demand for the same amount of health resources. In the mixed-market system we currently have, that will inevitably lead to higher prices for those resources.

Now, Obama and Hillary have both said that this wont be a problem for their plans because they will promote preventative medicine to help bring down costs. But as I discussed on the previous page of this thread, there is essentially no empirical evidence to support this assertion. Preventative Medicine just doesn't save that much money.

That's why I prefer McCain's more modest plan to Obama's. He tries to extend coverage by offering a tax credit that will help people pay for insurance. And he tries to lower costs by encouraging people to take on more responcibility for paying for their health care by expanding HSAs (if you're the one having to pay for much of your health care services, you'll be less likely to overuse those services).

HSAs will likely be used mostly by the rich (rich people save more and pay more income taxes) and that's exactly what we want. We want the rich paying for more of their health care bills and we want the rich consuming fewer health care services. That way, insurance will be more affordable for lower income workers.

[Edited on February 21, 2008 at 6:30 PM. Reason : YES WE CAN ]

2/21/2008 6:26:00 PM

Quote :

"exasperbate"

clinton's got your vote

2/21/2008 6:28:03 PM

^ spell checkers for Obama? Looks like you finally found an argument you can win. Just kidding, playa. I will concede that my spelling is atroshish bad. Now if only you would concede that you don't support OBama for substanative reasons. It's easier than insisting you love his policies but don't want to go into detail about what they are or why.

2/21/2008 6:33:20 PM

how about fuck your arrogant ass. you're not going to accept anyone's reasons for liking obama unless they say "thems words is pretty." so what's the point? when people have given reasons you've basically said "nope hillary's (and recently mccain's) answer is the correct one."

2/21/2008 7:02:44 PM

2/21/2008 7:56:18 PM

I support Obama because he has accomplished so much...

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video_log/2008/02/obama_supporter_cant_name_acco.html

2/21/2008 8:47:58 PM

If Barack and Hillary run together can we call them Broccoli?

2/21/2008 9:07:50 PM

2/21/2008 9:53:07 PM

^ is that a put down, because I believe that is pretty good.

2/21/2008 10:08:07 PM

^ Then you've clearly illustrated why it's a put down. College kids know about as much of Che as they do Obama. So it's no suprise they have Che tee-shirts and Obama bumper stickers...they both look rad.

2/21/2008 10:15:31 PM

BEU



hahahaha most excellent. If you can't identify with this comic, you probably belong in Chit Chat.

2/21/2008 10:19:26 PM

sadly for you Socks, you fell right into my trap this time.

i'm not a college kid. i know more about Che than you think. and you obvisouly view Ernesto from the typical viewpoint of he should be remembered for fighting for marxism/communism.

but thats okay, I wouldn't expect much more from you in the soap box than the "you're the typical college student supporting Obama because he's got a cool logo and maybe i'll get laid."

perhaps being considered as someone with revolutionary ideas, albeit not necessarily the correct ones, is more important than being the All American good guy. maybe not for you, but for me, showing that you can be considered with some of the most intriguing historical figures of the 20th century is a neat concept.

but i don't waste every hour trying to live that comic like you, so its cool.

2/21/2008 10:30:08 PM

Are you suggesting that Obama has revolutionary ideas?
If so, would you care to elaborate?

2/21/2008 10:33:15 PM

sure here's one:

as will be repeated over and over in the MSM after tonight's debate, but i've always liked, is his idea to go out and actually directly engage leaders of foreign states that we view as dangerous.

a lot of people call it careless, newbish, and stupid. i think its good to see somebody in a position to be of great influence understand humility of the human race.

but thats just one and don't ask me anymore because i really should be writing this paper. i mean damnit sometimes even internet debates are more interesting than papers, and thats sad.

2/21/2008 10:47:27 PM

That actually isn't revolutionary.

Reagan meeting with Gorbachev is probably the best example of this in recent history. And it actually resulted in one of the most significant arms limits deals of the Cold War.

But Bill Clinton also directly engaged directly with foreign leaders, like when he tried to broker a settlement between Israel and the Palestinians. Though I suppose neither are "dangerous" to the US in the same sense as the Soviets were. Though it's obviously in the US' interests for the two to reach a deal. Another example was his willingness to deal with North Korea on their nuclear development programs.

Any way you look at it, this is not revolutionary in the least little bit. Though it is a good idea and I hope whoever wins the office appreciates the value of diplomacy and direct engagement.

[Edited on February 21, 2008 at 11:05 PM. Reason : ``]

[Edited on February 21, 2008 at 11:22 PM. Reason : ``]

2/21/2008 11:01:39 PM

VP Hillary Clinton!

2/21/2008 11:15:45 PM

I would beg to differ. You listed examples in a pre 9/11 world. God listen to me, I sound like a republican. However with the last 8 years of Bush, right wing radio, the demonizing of our enemies by almost all levels of politicians, having a candidate believe its time to get back to the speaking with actual leaders to solve problems is revolutionary.

perhaps its not because so many people believe its a good idea. but a republic in america was revolutionary even with decent support of colonists.

revolutionary is a bad term solely because it is so subjective.

but thats the point of my previous thoughts. your opinion on Che, if educated, is subjective at best, because history has not been written on him subjectively yet or if ever.

2/21/2008 11:20:43 PM

Are you suggesting Hillary Clinton has not said similar things? As I remember, she toutes her "experience" meeting with world leaders as one of her best selling points.

The idea is not new. The words are not new. To claim otherwise is false.

Face it, Obama's ideas are not revolutionary (if it makes you feel any better, neither are any of the other remaining candidates).

2/21/2008 11:27:09 PM

Hillary has said she'd meet with "precursors" attached. And that is nothing new. That is very GWB post 9/11. Hell I could tout my experience with meeting foreign diplomats as well.

Did you just miss my entire post?

If the idea wasn't new than why would Clinton, McCain, and GWB all blast BO for it when he made it a platform agenda?

Face it, dude you are incapable of comprehension any issue that is remotely philosophical. And that is what I've been getting at for the past how many posts.

2/21/2008 11:59:06 PM

You might want to provide some links, because now I'm not sure what you're talking about.

And I'm not sure how foreign policy is "philosophical" except in the broadest sense that all normative questions are "philosophical" and require ethical frameworks to be answered.

2/22/2008 12:18:47 AM

Samantha Power is on Charlie Rose right now. I have been watching her for about 20 minutes now.

She is pretty fucking awesome...I can't believe I just said that.


Oops, just ended.

2/22/2008 12:25:48 AM

gawdalmighty, Socks``, your posts are just painful.

still, what gives me cheer is knowing how you'll go into the voting booth this November, look long and hard at Obama's name on the ballot, quietly check the box for McCain, then slink home to drown your sorrows in a bottle of gin.




[Edited on February 22, 2008 at 12:27 AM. Reason : ]

2/22/2008 12:26:52 AM

thank the lord Socks``

you went republican

i was worried that the indy vote was gonna go 1950s martian

i was gonna go straight hippie 1960s seat-belt vote

2/25/2008 12:24:04 AM

It was either him or my write-in candidate.



[Edited on February 25, 2008 at 8:05 AM. Reason : Hal Jordan in '08!]

2/25/2008 8:04:12 AM

Quote :

"North Carolina Democratic Primary Elon College Clinton 31, Obama 45 Obama +14"

2/25/2008 8:16:31 AM

because black people are cooler than old white guys and bitches.

2/25/2008 8:28:00 AM