Make the deal then sign Holt kthx

3/16/2009 3:25:49 PM

knocking out all that cap space and getting KC's second round pick...

not the best deal imaginable, but 'll take it.

3/16/2009 3:30:33 PM

what a bad deal this would be....If that is the case, they should have went after cassell while the pats still had him.

The panthers have a less than stellar track record with 2nd round picks too...

they need to talk to denver about Cutler

3/16/2009 3:33:14 PM

What is it about "zero cap space" that you guys don't understand?

The Panthers don't have the cap room to sign a guy like Cassel. They don't even have enough cap room to sign a first-round pick, which is why they are making the deal for a 2nd rounder.

3/16/2009 4:02:25 PM

^doesn't peppers count like $16M towards this year's cap if we kept him?

3/16/2009 4:05:19 PM

Yes, this deal is definitely financially motivated. It would have been very tough to start the season with Peppers on the roster, we wouldn't have been able to replace any of the depth lost to FA.

All the talk about replacing Jake is just fan speak, it was never going to happen. Fox and the FO won't freak out and blow everything up based on one game.

3/16/2009 4:14:34 PM

Quote :

"What is it about "zero cap space" that you guys don't understand?"

Since pepps is franchised, his entire 2009 salary counts toward the 2009 cap get rid of him and its gone.

Quote :

"Fox and the FO won't freak out and blow everything up based on one game. "

Did you see the second half of the season? (I actually put the AZ loss squarely on the coaching staff) We won in spite of Jake on more than one occasion...I'm not a Jake hater by any means and I think we can win with him (especially with our running game)....but the chance to get what is likely to be a franchise QB for the next 10+ years for a guy that doesn't want to be here anyway is too good to be true. And it wouldn't be anywhere near "blowing the team up"

also a deal like that would leave us ample cap room to sign draft picks and pick up a few fa's....the problem would be Denver working out a long term deal with pepp.

[Edited on March 16, 2009 at 4:21 PM. Reason : .]

3/16/2009 4:20:27 PM

You people wanting Jay Cutler must not be Philip Rivers fans. That, or you like having giant tool bags on your football team.

The trade isn't ideal, but it's not bad. It's going to save a lot of money, and a lot of headaches.

3/16/2009 7:25:36 PM

Too many people are worried about our offense. The last half of the season, which was the hardest portion of the schedule, the offense looked really good. The running game was very effective and Jake was also effective at playaction (minus the playoff game where we completely abandoned the running game). So our worries next year are not with the offense. Our defense gave up a lot late in the season. So quit worrying about Cutler. Take the second round pick, sign Beason, Deangelo, and Davis to extensions and find some goods pieces in free agency and the draft to fill the gaps in the defense.

3/16/2009 7:39:08 PM

We can't take any trades until Peppers signs his franchise contract or works out his own contract with another team(who would have to give us compensation), until then we can't even discuss trading him with other teams.

3/16/2009 10:28:11 PM

why is it that every year it seems that the Patriots find themselves in situations where they can land players for way under market value?

3/17/2009 8:29:45 AM

^Their management and front office actually plan for years ahead. And they are not afraid to let a player go a year or two early in order to make moves. And they do not play for "draft position."


III

3/17/2009 8:48:40 AM

Quote :

"Their management and front office actually plan for years ahead. And they are not afraid to let a player go a year or two early in order to make moves"

which is why I think we should at least test the waters with cutler....again, not saying Jake can't do it this year, or even next year. But with cutler, we wouldn't have to worry about it for years to come.

Quote :

"So quit worrying about Cutler. Take the second round pick, sign Beason, Deangelo, and Davis to extensions and find some goods pieces in free agency and the draft to fill the gaps in the defense."

a second rounder isn't likely to do much at all for the D, opposed to getting a franchise QB for the same price.

Quote :

"You people wanting Jay Cutler must not be Philip Rivers fans."

what kind of logic is that?

3/17/2009 9:10:33 AM

NC State logic.

3/17/2009 9:55:29 AM

the qb move must be peppers for rivers, there is no other way around it

3/17/2009 11:19:43 AM

Cutler is a bitch...we might as well make a run at trading Buffalo for Terrell Owens to really help our morale and locker room chemistry

And Peppers for the 34th pick will not happen...Peppers isn't going to get moved until within a week or so of the draft anyway

3/17/2009 11:42:25 AM

Quote :

"Cutler is a bitch...we might as well make a run at trading Buffalo for Terrell Owens to really help our morale and locker room chemistry"

Or have our offensive star player sucker punch a DB, or our star defensive player essentially handuffing the whole off season....oh, wait.

Except for the recent stuff with the new coach, I have never heard of cutler doing anything even remotely bad for the team....and having a new coach blatantly lie to you in your first interaction with him can't help matters.

3/17/2009 11:48:38 AM

he plays in the NFL...he needs to grow the fuck up...oh I'm gonna sell my house because I got my feelings hurt by the business side of the NFL...oh yeah, and I all but had the division locked up with 4 weeks to go, and I lost 4 straight to choke it away

No thanks

Hey let me complain about an opponent in the NFL talking trash because his team beat me 4 straight times...how dare a pro athlete talk trash, how classless of Rivers, I'm going to whine to the media about it

besides, Cutler had already asked for a trade before he pretended to get all offended

Quote :

" According to SI’s Peter King, Jay Cutler had asked the Broncos to trade him after the team lost offensive coordinator Jim Bates to USC after the season. Cutler wasn’t happy about losing Bates or head coach Mike Shanahan, and he’s not handling the recent trade talks well at all. It doesn’t look like the Broncos are going to trade Cutler at this point, so, as King suggested, “maybe both sides need to get into marriage counseling.” You’re kidding me right? Cutler had already asked to be traded after Shanahan and Bates were fired, yet said he was shocked when his name came up in trade talks over the weekend? I guess he still could have been surprised by all the news, but for him to say how upset he was about the whole thing makes him look two-faced with this latest information coming to the table."

sounds to me like cutler is the one who is blatantly lying

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 12:16 PM. Reason : .]

3/17/2009 12:08:36 PM

insider source says Holt to the panthers is highly unlikely

3/17/2009 12:50:52 PM

Quote :

"he plays in the NFL...he needs to grow the fuck up...oh I'm gonna sell my house because I got my feelings hurt by the business side of the NFL...oh yeah, and I all but had the division locked up with 4 weeks to go, and I lost 4 straight to choke it away No thanks Hey let me complain about an opponent in the NFL talking trash because his team beat me 4 straight times...how dare a pro athlete talk trash, how classless of Rivers, I'm going to whine to the media about it"

Really? that happens all the time...Jenkins did the same thing with Carolina, and he went to the Jets and was in the conversation for d player of the year for a while last year, w/o any problems (for the record I wish we had him back). Imo, this is making a mountain out of a mole hill....and I may be wrong, but they lost the last 3 in '08, all with opposing teams scoring 30+....hard to beat that. 8-8 with one of the worst Ds in the league isn't that bad...not to mention he was in the top 5 in passing yards and top 10 in td's w/o any consistent run game.

Seemed like all the other broncos were doing most of the talking to the media about the trash
talking, with the wait till next season talk from virtually all of the D.

3/17/2009 2:19:05 PM

They were at 8-5 (with San Diego 4-8) and lost the division...thats pretty weak

I'm just not fawning over Cutler like everybody else I guess...I've thought he was a total douchebag since he said he could throw it harder than John Elway ever could...all the other stuff since then (Rivers, faking anger at trade rumors, etC) is just par for the course...does he have a helluva set of quarterback skills? Absolutely. Does he come across as a crybaby and whiner? Absolutely.

3/17/2009 2:29:32 PM

I forget which game it was, but it made me lose all respect for Culter. It was one of the last games of the year -- possibly the SD game.

Anyway, Cutler's body language was awful the whole game ... yelling at WR's, not talking to anyone on the sideline (except when he was yelling at coaches). I remember one specific play where Cutler threw a pass to the rookie WR Eddie Royal. It was a tough catch to make and Royal dropped it, understandably. Instead of encouraging the young guy, or simply moving on, Culter absolutely blasts the guy, yelling (verbatim) CATCH THE FUCKING BALL EDDIE. This is a rookie WR who's been tearing it up all year, and making you look way better than you actually are. Why are you going to berate him in front of the whole team like that.

His latest whining does nothing but confirm he's a whiny, self-obsessed baby.

3/17/2009 3:08:30 PM

hahaha i remember that play exactly. cutler is such a dick, theres no reason to talk to your teammates like that

3/17/2009 3:11:20 PM

Quote :

"Anyway, Cutler's body language was awful the whole game ... yelling at WR's"

reminds me of a certain panthers QB.

Seriously...When Jake does the same thing its "firey", and "his passion for winning"

I really just don't see how he's done anything so wrong for people to not want his PRO BOWL numbers in carolina. It's nothing close to T.O., or pac man ect...

3/17/2009 3:20:12 PM

There's a big difference. Jake is usually mad at himself (though he will bug the shit out of the refs). Cutler is mad at everyone except Cutler.

Quote :

"I really just don't see how he's done anything so wrong for people to not want his PRO BOWL numbers in carolina. It's nothing close to T.O., or pac man ect.."

I'd love a pro-bowl QB here (Delhomme has technically been to a probowl, but yeah). The thing is, I still want to be able to like the panthers. If I don't like the QB (because he's a bitch) then I won't like the team. That negates his numbers/arm strength/whatever

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 3:24 PM. Reason : ]

3/17/2009 3:21:36 PM

^^let's not even bring the probowl into the equation, unless you want to try to rationalize why brett motherfucking favre made it for the AFC.

Cutler is a whiny cunt and an average QB. We already have an average QB on the team. The only way we should fuck with the chemistry is if it is an obvious upgrade.

3/17/2009 3:25:53 PM

Quote :

"reminds me of a certain panthers QB."

a certain QB with a couple conference title game and super bowl appearances

oh yeah, and his overall record is above .500

besides, cutler just "throws it up and steve smith brandon marshall bails him out"

3/17/2009 3:37:05 PM

Quote :

"a certain QB with a couple conference title game and super bowl appearances"

again, I'm not saying I don't like Jake...but I don't want to be in the post beuerline QB limbo era again and jake is nearing the end of the line.

Quote :

"let's not even bring the probowl into the equation, unless you want to try to rationalize why brett motherfucking favre made it for the AFC"

pro bowl aside, just look at the numbers.....w/o a consistent running threat too

and I've yet to hear teammates say bad things about him for as bad a teammate you guys make him out to be.

3/17/2009 3:51:53 PM

i've got cutler as about the 6th best QB last year with delhomme being around 13

for anyone interested

\/ that's a good thing, as I think that's a horrible deal for the panthers

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 4:04 PM. Reason : left someone out]

3/17/2009 4:01:26 PM

looks like the Peppers to Patriots for a 2nd round rumor is a hoax.

3/17/2009 4:03:02 PM

It's not a bad deal. Peppers is not worth a mil a game. He doesn't try.

3/17/2009 4:04:31 PM

Here are some notable second round defensive selections that they Panthers have made:
Mike Minter- 97
Mike Rucker- 99
Kris Jenkins- 01

Rucker and Minter are arguably the two most important players on the defense when Carolina went to the Super Bowl. Both were great players and leaders. So if we do get the second round pick, there is always a chance to get a good defensive player.

I don't know if the chances for getting Cutler will be very high. First, all we have to offer is Pep. We have no draft picks like teams like Detroit and Tampa who can offer high draft picks. This would let the new staff in Denver determine who they want to get to be their francise guy. Second, Fox and Hurney aren't known for getting high priced free agents or making huge trades. The "good" players that they have tried to sign lately like Hackett and Landon Johnson were busts. Last of all, it isn't Fox's style to have a dominant qb. He wants to run the football and play solid defense.

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 4:05 PM. Reason : .]

3/17/2009 4:04:43 PM

Quote :

"it isn't Fox's style to have a dominant qb. He wants to run the football and play solid defense."

except in playoff games!!!

3/17/2009 4:17:18 PM

Quote :

"I don't know if the chances for getting Cutler will be very high. First, all we have to offer is Pep. We have no draft picks like teams like Detroit and Tampa who can offer high draft picks"

they've already said they're not interested in trading for picks

I'm gonna get crucified for this one, but...


Peppers and Delhomme for Cutler and a late round pick....Denver likely won't let him go w/o getting a potential starter back.....If i'm not mistaken, delhomme's and cutler's contracts are similar in terms of cap this year, so we'd still be freeing up 15+ million for fa's.

3/17/2009 4:35:11 PM

^^ Yeah. Probaly the reason why the playoff loss is probaly more of the coaches fault instead of Jake's. We should have run the dang ball.

^ I don't know. I think that the coaching staff, especially Fox, likes Jake too much to trade him and I've heard that they like McCown. So it just seems unlikely.

3/17/2009 4:45:08 PM

Quote :

" think that the coaching staff, especially Fox, likes Jake too much to trade him "

you're most likely right, hence my fear they will be blindly loyal and try to keep him as the starter for 5 more years.

3/17/2009 4:51:25 PM

why would we waste so much to get cutler when he's going to be handing the ball off 75% of the time

3/17/2009 4:55:08 PM

the other 25%, he'll be crying about something. not that thats much different from jake...

3/17/2009 5:30:36 PM

I just don't see us moving Pep without some kind of return for the D-line (draft picks or players). All this QB talk is trite and reactionary.... i mean what DE could be replace him with through FA?

3/17/2009 7:57:29 PM

Quote :

"All this QB talk is trite and reactionary.... i mean what DE could be replace him with through FA?"

I disagree about the Cutler talk being reactionary...from my point of view, this is a rare opportunity to secure a proven young franchise QB made even more attractive given the fact that we have a disgruntled star to use as trade bait.

I agree with it being hard to replace pepp, but we're not likely to replace him no matter what happens...and it's harder to find an elite QB than an elite DE.



on a side note, kick returner Jones signed with tenn....not a huge loss if robinson comes back strong, but Jones did have some big returns when we needed them last year.

3/18/2009 3:36:05 PM

^^ i agree, jones was pretty valuable. he was good to get us at least to the 30 yard line everytime. but he had to be the slowest damn kick returner in the history of the NFL

on a side note, i read somewhere that the cowboys are getting in on the Peppers talk. could be an interesting situation. hopefully they'll offer us more than a second rounder...

3/18/2009 5:28:19 PM

but the cowboys have no first rounder this year

i doubt they trade away any more picks after the roy williams trade

3/18/2009 5:48:05 PM

There is always the possibility of a three way trade. So don't rule out a team like the Cowboys just because they don't have a first round pick.

3/18/2009 6:28:03 PM

Quote :

"Peppers-to-Pats losing steam. Now what? Julius Peppers | Panthers | Interested: Dolphins? Packers? Broncos? Cowboys? Jets? Patriots? After Vic Carucci of NFL.com posted a report earlier this week, saying that the New England Patriots were close to a deal that would grant them Carolina Panthers defensive end Julius Peppers in exchange for a second-round draft pick, it would now appear that this outcome is unlikely, unless the people involved are all in on a ruse. Karen Guregian of the Boston Herald cites individuals from both parties who have now publicly stated there has been no discussion about Peppers landing with the Pats. Carl Carey, Peppers' agent, told the Herald that while the Pats had not contacted him about Peppers, "we have had preliminary discussions with GMs from other clubs in the league." Pats coach Bill Belichick, in a radio appearance on WEEI, indicated that the team prefers to deal directly with other teams and not with agents such as in this situation. He then cited Matt Cassel as an example of what franchised players should do if they want to be traded: sign the tender, and then ask for the trade. All of this could be an attempt by Belichick to control the flow of information coming out of New England, and the Patriots could very well be internally considering the trade that has been getting so much play in rumor circles this week. But apparently until Peppers signs the Panthers' franchise tender - a one-year, $16.8 million deal - none of it will come to fruition. As for the general managers "from other clubs in the league", this could be a number of individuals, but based on what Peppers has said he wants, we can eliminate many. It's likely that Peppers wants a deal similar to what Albert Haynesworth, Jared Allen and Dwight Freeney possess, and he has also stated he wants to play as an outside linebacker in a 3-4 system, and for a contending team. A team that was rumored to be in the hunt was the Dallas Cowboys, but Jerry Jones and Co. have been committed to working out an extension for DeMarcus Ware, who is the incumbent sackmaster in Dallas, and having two high-priced players at the same position doesn't make sense. Similarly, the Miami Dolphins could afford Peppers' price tag, but Joey Porter is already on the roster, he of the 17.5 sacks in 2008. This leaves the New York Jets and the Green Bay Packers. Some salary cap finagling would have to take place, but Peppers would be welcomed by either organization. The Jets would have a surefire playmaker instead of going forward with the Vernon Gholston experiment, a situation which could make or break them in 2009. As for the Packers, while Aaron Kampman is slated to take on the role as the outside rushing linebacker after eight seasons as a defensive end, Peppers is an upgrade. One final intriguing possibility gaining momentum in rumor circles is a trade of Peppers to the Denver Broncos for fellow disgruntled player Jay Cutler. Pat Yasinkas, who covers the NFC South for ESPN.com, cautions that such a move wouldn't fit the profile of Panthers management. However, it would provide an escape for Cutler, and a chance for Peppers to play in a 3-4 scheme. This would likely mean that Chris Simms would be starting for the Broncos next season unless Jake Delhomme was included in the trade package. In either case, it would be hard to argue that the Broncos would be contending any better than the Panthers. "

3/20/2009 11:18:30 AM

Vic Carucci joins Chris Mortenson on the list of reporters known to make up stories for headlines. This story was dead when Adam Schefter came out and said there was a <1% chance this would happen, he's the best in the business.

3/20/2009 1:34:09 PM

the story never had any weight to begin with, AT ALL

just because we won't get 2 1st rounders for Pep doesn't mean we're going to settle for some fucking 2nd round pick for one of the (if not the) top free agents in the NFL

that Randy Moss shit might work when you're negotiating with Al Davis and a shitty team and Moss just had a horrible year, but not a 12-4 team when the player in question just got 16.5 sacks

3/20/2009 4:15:04 PM

not related, but moose's house is for sale on ebay

3/22/2009 6:38:08 PM

hopefully, something will get done at the owners meeting tomorrow.

3/22/2009 6:39:48 PM

i remember colin cowherd or someone said something about him (muhammad) having his house for sale

[Edited on March 22, 2009 at 6:40 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2009 6:40:37 PM

muhammad put his home up for sale couple months ago. This is old news.

3/22/2009 6:43:00 PM