^ That is the kind of depth I like my TAs to have.

8/4/2009 5:52:58 PM

Would you stick to the topic, asshole?

8/4/2009 5:55:13 PM

these fake grassroots "protesters" are fucking hilarious.

8/4/2009 8:08:12 PM

^ Keep telling yourself that. But what if certain groups are behind some of these speakers? Don't the individuals in these groups have a right to be heard?

Congressmen Get an Earful on Health Care Reform
White House Calls the Anger "Manufactured"; Protestors Say It's Quite Real

Quote :

"At a town hall meeting today on health care reform, House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md., got an earful. 'You're lying to me!' yelled Don Jeror, a local conservative activist in the upstate New York district, where Hoyer was visiting. The same scene of visceral anger has been playing out all over the country, as Members of the House hold town-hall meetings during their recess and are confronted by voters unhappy with President Obama's push for health care reform. Some Members of Congress have found it exasperating. Rep. Tim Bishop, D-N.Y., canceled town-hall meetings after a particularly unruly group prompted him to get a police escort back to his car. Rep. Frank Kratovil, D-Md., was hung in effigy. In Austin, Rep. Lloyd Doggett, D-Texas, was shouted down before he could even speak by a crowd of huddle protestors chanting, 'Just say no!'"

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=8252205&page=1

And there's this:

Just 23% Believe Health Care Costs Will Go Down if Reform Passes Congress
Tuesday, July 28, 2009

Quote :

"The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 47% are in favor of the reform effort proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats while 49% are opposed. Those figures include 25% who Strongly Favor the plans and 41% who are Strongly Opposed."

http://tinyurl.com/naxt7w

8/4/2009 8:43:41 PM

these fake grassroots "protesters" are fucking hilarious.

8/4/2009 8:44:44 PM

Quote :

"medicare and medicaid only work on the back of private insurance. They reimburse 80% of the COST (not charge) of care (how in the f' is that sustainable) while private insurance reimburses 140% of the cost."

you don't suppose that is why private insurance is getting more costly, do you?

8/4/2009 8:47:21 PM

^^ You're an idiot. Are these survey respondents "fake," too?

Just 23% Believe Health Care Costs Will Go Down if Reform Passes Congress
Tuesday, July 28, 2009

Quote :

"The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 47% are in favor of the reform effort proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats while 49% are opposed. Those figures include 25% who Strongly Favor the plans and 41% who are Strongly Opposed."

http://tinyurl.com/naxt7w

8/4/2009 8:52:56 PM

it's the fake outrage that's fantastically entertaining.

8/4/2009 8:58:23 PM

sup, troll

8/4/2009 9:00:55 PM

troll?

no, i honestly think it's funny. swear.

8/4/2009 9:05:03 PM

Quote :

"Are these survey respondents 'fake,' too?"

Answer the question. Are you saying that ObamaCare is wildly popular--or are you even saying anything at all?

8/4/2009 9:10:00 PM

the poll speaks for itself, what else do you want? i'm not going to refute that the country is divided on the issue. SHOCKING.

all i ever commented on was the hilarious feigned OUTRAGE at the town hall meetings. RWARRR. SHOUT DOWN ANY POLITICIAN REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THEY'RE DISCUSSING HEALTHCARE OR NOT! (we'll pay you!)

[Edited on August 4, 2009 at 9:27 PM. Reason : .]

8/4/2009 9:12:08 PM

^ So, all those people at the townhall meetings are plants by evil conservative groups? Not all? Then how many?

8/4/2009 9:16:26 PM

evil? who said that?

i'd wager the majority of the crazies shouting people down are members of lobbyist-run groups iike Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks, which released a memo to their people explaining how to effectively shout at politicians.

Quote :

" – Artificially Inflate Your Numbers: “Spread out in the hall and try to be in the front half. The objective is to put the Rep on the defensive with your questions and follow-up. The Rep should be made to feel that a majority, and if not, a significant portion of at least the audience, opposes the socialist agenda of Washington.” – Be Disruptive Early And Often: “You need to rock-the-boat early in the Rep’s presentation, Watch for an opportunity to yell out and challenge the Rep’s statements early.” – Try To “Rattle Him,” Not Have An Intelligent Debate: “The goal is to rattle him, get him off his prepared script and agenda. If he says something outrageous, stand up and shout out and sit right back down. Look for these opportunities before he even takes questions.”"

yep. it's a grassroots movement alright. totally not contrived and disingenuous at all.

i take it all back, it's not hilarious at all.

[Edited on August 4, 2009 at 9:25 PM. Reason : .]

8/4/2009 9:24:35 PM

How can it be called "grassroots" when its being pushed by all the top figures within the GOP and a major media conglomerate?

The word you're looking for is "astroturfing."

8/4/2009 10:54:04 PM

Quote :

"these fake grassroots "protesters" are fucking hilarious."

This is what happens when you don't fund mental health services.

8/4/2009 11:40:18 PM

Quote :

"How can it be called "grassroots" when its being pushed by all the top figures within the GOP and a major media conglomerate?"

It's not like the other party has ever probably organized protests.

8/5/2009 1:22:52 AM

Can any of you offer any proof that all the protests are organized by GOP groups?

And there's this:

Can Obama recover on healthcare?

Quote :

"It's been a bad month for Barack Obama. His popularity has fallen from once-dazzling highs to a merely respectable 53%, about where George W. Bush was at this point in his presidency."

Quote :

"In a Wall Street Journal-NBC News poll released last week, only 36% of respondents said they thought Obama's healthcare plan was a good idea; 42% said they thought it was a bad idea. Only a month ago, that question yielded an even split. Americans, polls have found, think Obama's plan is likely to raise the cost of healthcare and restrict patients' freedom of choice. It's no wonder they're not enthusiastic."

Quote :

"One reason the public shows so little support for the Obama healthcare plan is that there is, in fact, no Obama healthcare plan. To avoid the mistakes Bill and Hillary Clinton made in their abortive healthcare initiative in 1993, Obama left the work of drafting a plan to Congress. But Congress has largely failed him. The congressional committees behaved like committees and drafted three competing proposals, none of them yet complete."

Quote :

"Most Americans say they are happy with their insurance and don't think reform will benefit them personally."

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-mcmanus2-2009aug02,0,4118616.column

8/5/2009 3:18:35 AM

Quote :

"Can any of you offer any proof that all the protests are organized by GOP groups?"

No. Nobody can prove that ALL the protests are fake. All that matters is that there is known astroturfing going on, and it's fucking dirty politics. It's the same crap Bush/Cheney pulled during the recount.

8/5/2009 1:31:47 PM

Quote :

"No. Nobody can prove that ALL the protests are fake. All that matters is that there is known astroturfing going on, and it's fucking dirty politics. It's the same crap Bush/Cheney pulled during the recount."

I don't think it is dirty politics. The GOP may have promoted it, but if everyone would have felt like this is the perfect plan then no one would have shown up to protest.

8/5/2009 2:19:07 PM

Of course conservative hosts and the GOP are going to tell people to get out voice their opinions. They'll organize a rallies, hand out pamplets, ect... EVERY POLITICAL PARTY/GROUP IN HISTORY HAS DONE THIS!

What Democrats are trying to do is marginalize the OVERWHELMING response the folks have on this issue. This is done by trying to label all protesters as part of a fringe group. The polls tell a different story.

On this issue, when over half of the country DISAGREES with Washington, so please do not be fooled when they label protestors as a fringe group.

From my experience, this is absolustely a grass roots movement. This country remains center to center-right. The working people of this country are tired of supporting the other 40%. Rarely a day goes by that I dont hear someone talk about this! Trust me folks, get off campus and you'll hear it.

[Edited on August 5, 2009 at 2:20 PM. Reason : .]

8/5/2009 2:19:52 PM

Quote :

"What Democrats are trying to do is marginalize the OVERWHELMING response the folks have on this issue. This is done by trying to label all protesters as part of a fringe group. The polls tell a different story. "

Yep, Just like the teaparties.

8/5/2009 2:28:32 PM

Quote :

"On this issue, when over half of the country DISAGREES with Washington, so please do not be fooled when they label protestors as a fringe group. From my experience, this is absolustely a grass roots movement. This country remains center to center-right. The working people of this country are tired of supporting the other 40%. Rarely a day goes by that I dont hear someone talk about this! Trust me folks, get off campus and you'll hear it."

Bull fucking shit, there are polls showing overwhelming support for a health care reform and a public option.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/health/policy/21poll.html - 72%

http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2009062515/new-poll-shows-tremendous-support-public-health-care-option - 83%

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/17/obama-boost-new-poll-show_n_217175.html - 76%

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/07/01/1984293.aspx - 69%

The opposition is mostly against the specific plans that are being worked out at the moment, not the idea of government involvement in health care. I personally don't think the proposed plans go far enough, but they are a good start.

8/5/2009 2:28:56 PM

Im sure you can understand the difference between saying do you support health care reform, vs do you support a govt take over of health care.

I would be for one, but not the other. And most polls are close to 50-50. This seriously might not pass.

8/5/2009 2:30:38 PM

And I'm sure you can read. All those links were to polls showing wide support for a public option. I know, they are over a month old, but I seriously doubt public opinion has swayed all that much on the issue in such a short time. All we're seeing here is a very vocal minority drumming up the majority of the opposition. Oh, and pissant democrats, as per usual.

8/5/2009 2:36:17 PM

Quote :

"Can any of you offer any proof that all the protests are organized by GOP groups?"

Here's Beck promoting tea parties:
http://www.the912project.com/tea-parties-2/

Here's Hannity
http://www.atlantateaparty.net/2009/03/sean-hannity-to-broadcast-live-from.html

Here's Limbaugh:
http://raymondpronk.wordpress.com/2009/04/03/rush-limbaugh-suggested-caller-attend-local-tea-party-on-april-15-2009-well-rush-which-tea-parties-will-you-be-attending/

Here's O'Reilly:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/04/15/oreilly_on_nationwide_tea_parties.html


This is the definition of astroturfing.


BTW, here's some lawlz I discovered during my exhaustive research:











[Edited on August 5, 2009 at 2:53 PM. Reason : ]

8/5/2009 2:50:17 PM

^ sounds like you have no clue what astroturfind means, friend.

You have just pointed out that several conservative commentators support tea party protests. Great. But that is not the same as actually organizing the events themselves in order to create a false impression of "grassroots support" for their agenda (which actually is the definition of astroturfing):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing

That being said, I'm not saying I support the tea parties or think they actually represent the views of the majority of Americans (if they did, I think they would be larger, and I think Obama wouldn't have won the election).

I just dislike your routinely partisan arguments. "MAN! Those Republicans are so mean!!!!" get over it. And at least google shit (besides pictures) before you post. Jeez!!!!

[Edited on August 5, 2009 at 3:25 PM. Reason : ``]

8/5/2009 3:22:50 PM

This just in:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/05/town.halls/index.html

8/5/2009 3:45:01 PM

Shrike, public opinions are NOT favorable for Obamas form of healthcare, 52 percent oppose vs 39 percent support.

http://thebulletin.us/articles/2009/08/05/news/nation/doc4a79e90663b3b969618585.txt

[Edited on August 5, 2009 at 5:11 PM. Reason : .]

8/5/2009 5:11:02 PM

this just in:

One political party trying to devalue differing views.

Remember when libs said that Bush had OBL captured and was just waiting for election time to reveal it to get a bump?

Now as proof of the GOP orgainizing protest.. we have Glenn Beck Republican Senator from... Sean Hannity, Republican governor of..... and O'Reilly GOP national chair of...... as proof. Awesome boonedocks.

8/5/2009 6:10:21 PM

Quote :

"Remember when libs said that Bush had OBL captured and was just waiting for election time to reveal it to get a bump?"

remember when you couldn't recognize sarcasm

Quote :

" Now as proof of the GOP conservatives orgainizing propping up protest.. we have Glenn Beck Republican Senator from noted conservative comedian, pundit, radio show host ... Sean Hannity, Republican governor of noted conservative pundit, radio show host, author..... and O'Reilly GOP national chair of noted conservative pundit, author, all around blowhard...... as proof. Awesome boonedocks."

[Edited on August 5, 2009 at 6:30 PM. Reason : .]

8/5/2009 6:24:11 PM

Quote :

"Shrike, public opinions are NOT favorable for Obamas form of healthcare, 52 percent oppose vs 39 percent support."

When did I say otherwise? All I pointed out was there was wide public support for an overhaul of the health care system that includes a public/government option. Even the poll you quoted indicates this.

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1295.xml?ReleaseID=1357

Quote :

"There is still strong support for critical elements of the Obama/Democratic plan: * 62 - 32 percent in favor of giving people the option of a government insurance plan; * 61 - 36 percent for higher taxes on high income earners to pay for health care reform; * 60 - 32 percent in favor of insurance subsidies for individuals making up to $43,000 and families of four making up to $88,000; * 54 - 38 percent for requiring businesses to provide insurance or pay the government. "

People want public option, they just don't like the plan as it's being presented.

8/5/2009 6:53:29 PM

Quote :

"People want public option a free lunch"

Constitution democracy doesn't work if we let the majority vote to steal the property of individuals so they can afford a luxury.

HEALTH CARE IS NOT A RIGHT. RIGHTS DO NOT INFRINGE ON OTHER RIGHTS.
WE HAVE A RIGHT TO OUR PROPERTY. TAXES FOR NATIONAL INSURANCE IS THEFT OF PROPERTY.

I fucking swear, you goddamn liberals are stupid if you don't think that a civil war will be the inevitable result if this public option bullshit passes.

8/5/2009 7:05:38 PM

^
Would you care to divulge us further on the "right to our property" that we all have?

Don't those with property enjoy it because of all the various aspects of our society in which that property was earned? The luxuries of the rich may have been earned through their own hard work, but those luxuries are also paid for by the labor of millions of uninsured and under insured American citizens that make up the backbone of our society as a whole.

As for the inevitable civil war that will result, we'll just deny your side our single-payer health insurance.

8/5/2009 7:55:47 PM

Quote :

"we'll just deny your side our single-payer health insurance."

if i can not pay for it too, you have a deal sir.

8/5/2009 8:32:25 PM

CIVIL WAR?

i'll move to canada

8/5/2009 8:59:53 PM

^^
You'll be forced to pay back-taxes once you are reincorporated into the Union.

8/5/2009 9:08:16 PM

based on the shady shit that went down at the end of the last one, I'd believe the northern states would pull some crazy shit, again. "Hey, would you like to ratify this ammendment? Btw, we won't remove our troops and allow you to govern yourselves until you ratify it. What;s that? THis amendment is the thing you disagreed with us on that made you secede? You want those troops gone, right?"

8/5/2009 10:08:07 PM

sucks to lose, huh

8/5/2009 10:12:07 PM

yeah, it does. It also sucks to use military force to pass Constitutional amendments. Or do you actually support such a policy?

8/5/2009 10:13:13 PM

RABBLE RABBLE STRAWMAN AARONBURRO RABBLE STRAWMAN

8/5/2009 10:15:04 PM

not really a strawman. Given that I never accused you of holding that position. You did notice the question that was posed, didn't you?

or would you rather me just call you a troll and be done with it. Seems like a logical interpretation of the statement "sucks to lose, don't it?" dontcha think, especially when the previous statement was "the north used the military to force ratification"? or, would you care to expound upon that? Do you think that military force should be used to force ratification of Constitutional Amendments?

8/5/2009 10:17:58 PM

considering that explicit military force wasn't actually used, i don't see how the question is valid or relevant.


and since when does it matter if a strawman is accurately identified?

8/5/2009 10:20:04 PM

since when is being a troll a good thing?

and how in the hell can you say military force wasn't used? It was made explicitly known to the states that the military would not leave and allow the citizens to resume their normal lives until the state ratified amendments. Do you disagree with fucking history on this?

8/5/2009 10:21:54 PM

the south lost, the north occupied them. as you said, the troops wouldn't leave until ratification and reconstruction were underway. that's indisputable. however, occupation and military force are not necessarily synonymous.

[Edited on August 5, 2009 at 10:30 PM. Reason : honestly, we're arguing semantics here, let's not hijack the thread]

8/5/2009 10:23:53 PM

so. you don't consider persisting a military force in the area until ratification to be "using the military to force ratification?" You don't consider removing voting rights in Congress until ratification, all the while the military is hanging around to be a use of the military? come on. don't be a hack.

8/5/2009 10:30:56 PM

as i said, we're arguing semantics, as you're clearly refining what you originally said. so let's just drop it, shall we?

BACK TO HEALTHCARE!

8/5/2009 10:34:30 PM

tell me, then... what would you define military force to be? I think you are beginning to see that you were full of shit...

But hey, back to healthcare, right?

8/5/2009 10:38:55 PM

i think the difference between using military force and conditionally using the presence of the military to accomplish something is pretty evident. that's just me. that's it for me though.

[Edited on August 5, 2009 at 10:50 PM. Reason : .]

8/5/2009 10:45:22 PM

u have yet to define military force

8/5/2009 10:54:27 PM