Quote :

"To quote a professor teaching economics at George Mason University: "

On a cost per calorie basis what this guy is saying probably isn't even true.

7/21/2011 10:04:49 AM

If they theory is correct that McDonalds can use advertising to sell anything, even "shit", then that the food will starve the customers to death over time should not stop them.

7/21/2011 10:07:51 AM

you're missing the point. Celery is in fact more expensive on a per calorie basis than ground beef (especially really cheap ground beef that is mostly "beef product")

7/21/2011 10:09:27 AM

^ Yes, I thought that too. Poor metaphor, but I was appealing to authority, must take the authority as it comes. McDonalds would get away cheaper per pound of food if it served bread and water or even better serving algae and water.

Of course, if the theory is correct, McDonalds can serve however much it chooses. Charge $10 for a single stick of celery and the customers would say thank you.

7/21/2011 10:21:14 AM

Are you proud charging those windmills?

7/21/2011 1:22:14 PM

Absolutely. You built them. I realize it was out of ignorance, as you believe the cost of meat magically dictated its nutritional value.

7/21/2011 1:43:09 PM

Does it matter at all to you that I never stated such a thing?

7/21/2011 1:50:39 PM

Always feel free to correct me when I am wrong. I try to correct you.

You implied it through sarcasm? Why "l [your] a o" if what I said was not controversial?

7/21/2011 2:14:11 PM

Quote :

"It's your unwillingness and subsequent inability to learn"

It's the farthest thing from that. I asked you to educate us on the glories of Socialism and thus far you haven't seemed to attempt that in this thread. Wait...you implied that I needed to go back and study specific military history, political history, economic history, and philosophy. You implied that the average American should be well schooled in these areas as a matter of necessity.

Underlying a not insignificant amount of the information you've posted here is this theme that capitalist are conspirators and have conditioned us all to "believe the hype" and to not trust the subversive Socialists. Apparently, if we pour a significant amount of our time into reading everything you have then we'll eventually arrive at the same conclusions you have.

To boot...for about the past couple of pages you've done nothing more than make snide throw away comments at what most any rational person would agree are legitimate arguments to be made against whatever it is you posted I only assume because you honestly have no idea how to communicate the virtues of Socialism...you just know it's better.

7/21/2011 4:08:25 PM

Why is it you still haven't read any of the posts from the center of this thread?

7/21/2011 7:20:44 PM

sup, McDouche?

7/21/2011 7:22:23 PM

^^ Copy/paste is your friend. If you want to refer someone to something in particular you said, you should link it. No point fighting over something you think you said when a real mystery exists over how others either overlooked the text or don't think it means what you think it means.

7/21/2011 8:04:04 PM

I read the whole Adam Smith had progressive tendencies dialog you had with Snark. Fuck dude, I even posted links supporting your point along with a critique...you know, out of genuine curiosity for multiple viewpoints. I didn't realize I was required to have a specific comment about that particular discussion so that I could comment about something completely different.

Why don't you just bow out of the thread now dude. Despite the pleadings of multiple folks here about how your nirvana will happen and look like, you've not even come close to painting that picture yet.

It's all "you're tiliting at windmills, you're a rube, you're brainwashed, etc". This is what passes for scholarly thought out of Carnegie Mellon? Or are you just a poor representation?

7/21/2011 9:45:18 PM

Quote :

"This is what passes for scholarly thought out of Carnegie Mellon? Or are you just a poor representation?"

Yes, clearly I submit things to academic journals saying "You're a rube". I give out what I get back; the early pages of this thread are littered with me trying to, in simplest terms possible, correct some of the misconceptions of socialism on this board (even the silly requests like "paint every aspect of how your system will work").

This is a fucking message board. One with a tradition of maliciousness, as I'm sure you know (being a major contributor to that culture yourself). I spent my patience on this thread, and eventually I lost my patience when my effort far outstripped the people coming into this thread (such as yourself). I'm perfectly willing to have a calm, measured discussion with other people, but I'm not willing to listen to regurgitated propaganda and to answer utterly lazy requests that would have me spending the majority of my day in exchange for 5 minutes of your shoddy thought. No thanks.

7/22/2011 10:08:02 AM

Quote :

"This is a fucking message board. One with a tradition of maliciousness"

The only maliciousness I saw in this thread came from you in response to perfectly calm statements. You blew up at me several times. Did I blow up at you once?

Even if the world is as you say it is and all we are spouting is propaganda, why the anger? Why do you take our disagreement with you so personally? If we are brainwashed, then insulting us is not going to correct the problem.

7/22/2011 11:19:22 AM

Quote :

"The only maliciousness I saw in this thread came from you in response to perfectly calm statements. You blew up at me several times. Did I blow up at you once?"

Perfectly calm lies. You demonstrated that you were willfully lying in this thread. I'm not supposed to be upset at that?

Quote :

"Even if the world is as you say it is and all we are spouting is propaganda, why the anger? Why do you take our disagreement with you so personally? If we are brainwashed, then insulting us is not going to correct the problem."

It's hard for me not to insult you, as you've demonstrated that not only have you fallen for the propaganda, but that you're a firm proponent of it. You love it. You want to spread it all around. Either that or you have no idea what "truth" is, no idea why it's important, and no loyalty to it whatsoever. Typical conservative: grab an argument from your bag-o-tricks, even if you know it's false. If it works, great. If not, grab the next argument. Never, ever ditch an argument even if it's eviscerated or false; that could be the argument to draw another person to your way of thinking, after all.

7/23/2011 4:29:18 PM

Inane shit like this:

Quote :

"not only have you fallen for the propaganda"

is what garnered this statement

Quote :

"This is what passes for scholarly thought out of Carnegie Mellon? Or are you just a poor representation?"

You're like the guy screaming into the empty room about how Microsoft products are better than Apple even though the rest of the world knows better.

7/23/2011 7:02:21 PM

Well you're a propaganda fiend who can barely think for yourself. Would you rather I stroke your ego and pretend you strike an independent thought now and again?

7/24/2011 12:16:09 PM

You haven't shown through any sort of a cogent argument how any of us responding to you is a "propaganda fiend" other than "a person who disagrees with McDanger" or "someone who thinks Capitalism works". Not even close. Which is why I question the dreck that CM apparently has coming through their halls these days.

Of all arguments ever made in the Soap Box, what you've done here is about the weakest attempt I've ever seen.

7/24/2011 12:54:47 PM

Quote :

"You haven't shown through any sort of a cogent argument how any of us responding to you is a "propaganda fiend" other than "a person who disagrees with McDanger" or "someone who thinks Capitalism works". Not even close. Which is why I question the dreck that CM apparently has coming through their halls these days."

You exposed earlier that you had no idea what the CIA and US State Department has been up to for the last 80 years (like, at all). You also demonstrated that you had no idea what socialism or communism are, and showed that your level of understanding boiled down to misinformation supplied in wholesale conservative (and otherwise anti-communist) propaganda. Then you have the outright balls to claim you're rarely, if at all, under the influence of propaganda and appeared offended that people suggested otherwise. All of the misconceptions you've spouted in this thread have little to do with differences of ideology or interpretation, they're just born from not having a grasp of the basic facts of the situation. Basic facts you could have easily supplied to yourself by now, being (ostensibly) an adult.

You are operating on the standard line people get fed in a public high school, if even that. The fact that it's not clear to you is due to your apparently pathetic level of education, which hasn't even impressed upon you the importance of learning on your own. That you received a degree from the same institution as me is not encouraging and yes, generally pisses me off. Just goes to show you what happens when you treat Universities as trade schools; you get people who cannot, do not, and will not see the value in learning. Boggles me.

Your weepy, pathetic, whiny shit is way overboard here. If you paid attention at all, you'd note that the majority of the stuff being published from CMU on precisely this stuff agrees wholesale with people like you, and in my opinion, promotes and buys the bullshit. So you're in essence criticizing my organization without having any clue what sorts of viewpoints are produced and publicized by it. Nice job, dude.

You haven't a fucking clue what the quality of my academic work is, but I assure you, I afford colleagues in my discipline a professional degree of respect. People like you, who have played the buffoon on a college messageboard for upward up a decade now, are not from a class of people that deserves my respect. The fact that you're demanding it and calling into question my professional capabilities as a result of it are nothing more than evidence at your generally pathetic level of intelligence. The fact that you believe such simpleminded rhetoric and outright lies (all of them dethrone-able with an afteroon, a 6er, and google) and persistently continue to after having at least a decade's worth of time to look up the information is fucking pathetic, I'm sorry. And no, I don't afford you an ounce of respect and treat you consistently with that fact, and until you reform your behavior, I'll have no reason to whatsoever. Sorry that it appears to hurt your feelings so much.

[Edited on July 24, 2011 at 5:07 PM. Reason : .]

7/24/2011 5:01:15 PM

...and that's why I love McDanger.

7/24/2011 5:08:19 PM

If McDanger spent half as many words espousing the benefits of socialism we would all be converts. Regretfully, we have yet another entire post spent doing nothing but insulting those he disagrees with.

7/24/2011 5:20:08 PM

And if you spent even a few minutes reading we wouldn't have written 75% of the words in this thread, so let's just keep the ignorance-train rolling, shall we? When nobody knows, not knowing looks like knowing!

7/24/2011 5:20:52 PM

Hey Lonesnark, I meant to ask you, how'd those sea walls work out for Japan this year?

For those not in the know, this was Lonesnark's solution to Climate Change before it was proven to be an obvious hoax:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-zfCBCq-8I

[Edited on July 26, 2011 at 4:09 AM. Reason : background info.]

7/26/2011 3:53:47 AM

Oh fuck, really? You're actually making Carnegie Mellon grads look intelligent with that post.

7/26/2011 7:15:24 AM

^^ I don't get your point. Are you suggesting a city such as New Orleans should not bother with sea walls because they are sometimes topped? Britain just built a mother of all sea walls to protect London. Do you think they should tear it down and accept their fate?

7/26/2011 8:02:20 AM

Absolutely. I think its pretty evident that building a gigantic wall isn't going to stop an Ocean.

Its cut-and-run time my friend. That way, people like you can at least save face and not spend a metric fuckton more building irrelevant walls then you would have spent trying to prevent global warming** in the first place.












**If global warming weren't a myth.

7/26/2011 3:35:49 PM

New Orleans is analogous to the Federal Government as it is right now.

We build a megacity that is surrounded by water on all sides, BELOW SEA LEVEL. We, ourselves build walls around the water inlets. Not if, but when catastrophe happens, we blame the people we paid to build the walls. We don't blame ourselves for BUILDING A FRIGGIN CITY BELOW SEA LEVEL RIGHT ON THE WATER.

Then, we make all of the other cities in the country pay TO REBUILD THE CITY BELOW SEA LEVEL RIGHT ON THE WATER.

Then we have some black guy go on national television and blame some white guy for not caring about the city.

7/26/2011 3:43:31 PM

Terrible analogy.

7/26/2011 5:38:56 PM

Quote :

"Absolutely. I think its pretty evident that building a gigantic wall isn't going to stop an Ocean."

Because of the Japanese quake? That might have been evidence of something if the flooded areas had not been above sea level.

As contrary evidence we have the Netherlands, an entire region under sea level kept dry for farming and cities by sea walls built cost-effectively using 12th century technology. Given today's modern technology, the Netherlands maintains many thousands of miles of sea walls for less than they spend on alternative energy.

7/26/2011 11:40:11 PM

Quote :

"But as the water defenses have grown ever larger, so too have the consequences of their failure. In 1953 a storm surge smashed through the sea defenses in southern Holland and nearly 2,000 people drowned. A 1995 river flood forced the evacuation of 200,000 people and millions of animals from endangered areas. Much of the countryside would drown in the continuous rain if pumping stations didn't lift the water up, over the seawalls, and into the North Sea."

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/08/0829_wiredutch.html

So like Japan, one environmental event brings a 25 billion dollar investment to its knees. What Engineering school did you say you went too? I think you missed the lesson on risk assessment. Anyway, even if this concept wasn't patently absurd, you should probably come up with a country whose entire population and land area isn't less then New York. How many coastal cities does the United States have? How much money do we currently have in the big ole national bank?

Ouch. .

Good thing climate change doesn't exist.

7/27/2011 5:53:18 AM

25 billion dollars is rounding error compared to the civil wars and world wars that would need to be fought to control carbon emissions enough, which would still leave our cities vulnerable to rising sea levels and other natural events, such as the 1953 floods, hurricanes, and tsunamis.

7/27/2011 7:25:23 AM

Haha yet another LS assumption that he treats as sacrosanct fact. Controlling carbon means world wars. WELL IF YOU SAY SO, LET'S POLLUTE THIS BITCH

7/27/2011 8:20:04 AM

And SandSanta assumed controlling carbon would cost less than $25 billion, an assumption he treats as sacrosanct fact. You are running around here assuming you are right and anyone that disagrees with you just needs to be insulted in lieu of an argument, an assumption you treat as sacrosanct fact. What of it?

7/27/2011 8:59:46 AM

So you think there's no way whatsoever we could reduce carbon emissions. None. Every single way leads to World War 10.

7/27/2011 11:24:19 AM

If you are going to take coastal barriers and all other mitigation techniques off the table then yes, that leaves two extremes of world war to reduce carbon emissions as much as you want or doing nothing and ignoring the damage.

7/27/2011 11:57:04 AM

Quote :

"You exposed earlier that you had no idea what the CIA and US State Department has been up to for the last 80 years"

You made an obscure reference to some shit that a fucking history major didn't study.

Quote :

"You also demonstrated that you had no idea what socialism or communism "

Well I'm not expert but this is some sad hyperbole we've come to expect from such an angry person as yourself.

Quote :

" showed that your level of understanding boiled down to misinformation supplied in wholesale conservative (and otherwise anti-communist) propaganda"

How can I be so ill-read yet have eaten the propaganda up with a spoon?

Quote :

"you're rarely, if at all, under the influence of propaganda and appeared offended that people suggested otherwise."

I wasn't offended at all. I thought it was laughable as hell that Str8Toolish thinks he knows anything about me. That reply was regarding advertising of which I'm virtually never exposed.

Quote :

"All of the misconceptions you've spouted in this thread have little to do with differences of ideology or interpretation, they're just born from not having a grasp of the basic facts of the situation."

This thread has been fact free and platitude full and you've been leading that effort.

Quote :

"You are operating on the standard line people get fed in a public high school, if even that"

What kind of loony bin shit talk is this? From elementary school all the way through college kids are spoon-fed sharing and other generally socialist principles. And this isn't coming from a guy who thinks we should end public schools.

Quote :

"The fact that it's not clear to you is due to your apparently pathetic level of education, which hasn't even impressed upon you the importance of learning on your own."

Look, just cut this shit out now. Everyone here is past tired this tripe kid and your colleagues would be pissed if they found out that you do this sort of childish insulting when you fail again to come up a response to genuine inquiries to your ideologies.

Quote :

"Just goes to show you what happens when you treat Universities as trade schools"

I'll treat the thing any fucking way I want you hypocritical bastard.

Quote :

"Your weepy, pathetic, whiny shit is way overboard here."

We're you high when you posted this shit because it doesn't even make sense.

Quote :

" So you're in essence criticizing my organization without having any clue what sorts of viewpoints are produced and publicized by it."

Again, were you high? I don't give two fucks what the rest of your University publishes. However, if they read this thread I bet they'd give a fuck what you're "publishing".

Quote :

" People like you, who have played the buffoon on a college messageboard for upward up a decade now, are not from a class of people that deserves my respect."

You mean...you mean a hypocrital chode-mongrel on a message board doesn't respect me? Whatever will I do?

Quote :

"The fact that you're demanding it and calling into question my professional capabilities as a result of it are nothing more than evidence at your generally pathetic level of intelligence."

For such a intellectually curious person it really doesn't take you much at all to arrive at whatever willy nilly conclusion it is people like you arrive to. You sure you aren't deluding yourself?

Quote :

"The fact that you believe such simpleminded rhetoric and outright lies"

Lollerskates. The idea that a couple centuries of Capitalism created the best country in the world is simpleminded rhetoric and outright lies? Do you try to undermine your credibility on purpose or have you become such a caricature of yourself now that you just kind of half to do it for effect?

Quote :

" Sorry that it appears to hurt your feelings so much"

My feelings are hurt? I'm living the American dream while an angry frustrated academic is..well, angry and frustrated and probably will be for life. No amount of insults using half-assed scholarly language and failures to make an argument from you will ever change that.

7/31/2011 5:36:43 PM

Worker's revolution going on in the UK right now. This is what you guys wanted, right? The lower class rising up and taking back property (that was never theirs to begin with) by force? Now we just need this to happen on a global scale for true socialism to take root.

8/9/2011 1:59:59 PM

^It's quite ironic you don't know the difference between socialism and anarchy, especially considering you support one of them.

8/9/2011 5:24:04 PM

^

8/10/2011 9:13:45 AM

poor people are lazy until they have to carry a tv out of a burning store.

8/10/2011 10:20:33 AM

Quote :

"^It's quite ironic you don't know the difference between socialism and anarchy, especially considering you support one of them."

Oh, I understand the difference. The riots going on are remarkably similar to how Marx said socialism/communism would have to be achieved. You don't think those owners of capital were going to give up their property voluntarily, did you? Nah, son. That shit has to be taken by force. That's revolutionary socialism. You're a fool if you believe that socialism could be achieved through reform.

8/10/2011 11:14:50 AM

What a ridiculous comparison. What makes you think that a labor revolt (or something similar) would take the form of destroying the shit around you?

8/10/2011 1:04:16 PM

Why wouldn't it? The poor, underprivileged class is too uneducated to know any better. All of these privileged business owners had it coming. The same goes for the people being robbed in the street. They could have given up their property voluntarily, but they didn't, so it came to this.

Proletarians, rise up and crush anyone that believes in private property!

8/10/2011 1:36:26 PM

I'm not even responding to this dishonest horseshit further than this. You should really know better.

This boils down to you blaming socialists for something you claim they should support without any argument other than "d-d-d-duh of course you should be behind it!" The actual motivations behind the people performing the acts and whether or not this mindset is required for socialist uprisings are completely separate issues, and I have no idea of the equivalence or comparison you're trying to draw here other than "I'm going to assert you support this madness such as to use the madness against you in a political argument."

It's almost like you don't give a shit what anybody thinks or what the reality of the situation is at all: you just want to make a point about what you believe and to charge it with emotion using the situation in whatever way that suits you. Well fuck that, I'm not engaging anymore. If you want to be this dishonest then fine, but don't expect honest people to treat you like an adult.

[Edited on August 10, 2011 at 1:58 PM. Reason : .]

8/10/2011 1:57:48 PM

I'm honing in on a sensitive point that you've never been able to address: that it would require the working class taking capital by force in order for your ideal system to ever emerge. The system cannot be reformed into socialism, otherwise it becomes state capitalism with welfare.

There isn't an orderly way to "take back capital." There just isn't. The only thing socialists can do is appeal to some far off, utopian society where everyone is highly educated and will somehow "know" that socialism is best. The problem is that we will always have some form capitalism up to that point, which will prevent the population from ever becoming educated enough to implement these changes that you believe are for the better.

8/10/2011 2:12:18 PM

Quote :

"What makes you think that a labor revolt (or something similar) would take the form of destroying the shit around you?"

what the fuck makes you think it wouldn't? Socialism relies upon demonizing business owners and capital owners. Once the protection falls, you don't think the demonized would be attacked? Give me a break

8/10/2011 2:24:51 PM

What in the fuck do the riots in London have to do with Socialism?

8/10/2011 3:24:46 PM

probably nothing.

8/10/2011 3:37:43 PM

Quote :

"I'm honing in on a sensitive point that you've never been able to address: that it would require the working class taking capital by force in order for your ideal system to ever emerge. The system cannot be reformed into socialism, otherwise it becomes state capitalism with welfare. "

One could imagine a variety of ways by which this happens, and seizing a factory, for instance, is not even the same sort of violent act as these riots. This is just break down of order and disrespect of all rules, conventional, ethical, legal, whatever.

Yet again you aren't honing in on anything except your own intuitions. This has fuck-all to do with socialism; you just want to imagine that any social revolution would entail the exact same sort of violence that you see on the TV and want to draw an equivalence in counterfactual a priori probe-my-own-intuitions land. That's what a journal is for. Quite odd you'd expect anybody to take this fiction seriously

The rioters themselves have little solidarity and no vision for what to make the world into whatsoever. No goals except chaos. They're just rioters.

Quite honestly I'm sick and fucking tired of the mental sloppiness of libertarian arguments. You never want to descend into the real issues, you always want a quick and easy silver bullet (like making taxes about *morality*) that allows you to avoid the difficulty of scientific thought.

[Edited on August 10, 2011 at 4:58 PM. Reason : .]

8/10/2011 4:56:22 PM