It's funny how some of you seem to care more about what I--some guy on the Internet--say than the leader of the free world:

Barack Obama: US is at war with al-Qaeda

http://tinyurl.com/ydg7v3v

This is a fact--Obama got it right this time--and if it isn't right, why don't you know-it-alls simply sack up and say that it isn't? Furthermore, a military campaign doesn't have to be "declared" to be a de facto war--this is self-evident, of course, and only fools would argue otherwise. But there's a nest of you loons here, so it's really no big surprise.

1/13/2010 2:30:39 AM

Perhaps it's because we're attempting to have a discussion with you and not Obama?

1/13/2010 7:05:29 AM

Quote :

"^ So, Obama is wrong? Say it if it's so."

1/13/2010 3:19:06 PM

We are figuratively at war with al Qaeda. We are not, by the letter of the law, at war with al Qaeda.

What's so hard to comprehend?

1/13/2010 3:31:13 PM

War happens between nations, not between a nation and some random group of people. It's pretty easy to understand.

1/13/2010 3:35:45 PM

^^ and ^ We weren't technically at war with Vietnam or Korea, either--remember the ridiculous term "police action"? The tens of thousands of Americans who were killed would undoubtedly argue that it sure as hell seemed like "war" to them--if the dead could speak. I'll wager the souls of the 9-11 dead would speak the same truth.

1/13/2010 3:40:25 PM

I imagine they'd be able to distinguish between the US v North Vietnam from the US v a group of religious fanatics.

1/13/2010 3:47:39 PM

^ Both are/were wars--despite the leftists' incessant need to twist themselves into linguistic contortions such as "police action," "man-caused disaster," and "overseas contingency operation."

1/13/2010 3:59:00 PM

You're the one who's argument relies on semantics.


Simply because one could maybe loosely classify both scenarios as "wars," you feel justified to treat our enemies in both scenarios identically.

If one were to move beyond the simple fact that both scenarios could be referred to as wars, they'd see that there are significant differences between the them.

But you won't discuss these differences, of course. Because then you'd lose.

1/13/2010 4:11:11 PM

^ I will lose nothing. You are the one with your head in the sand--or perhaps up your ass. This nation is at war with Islamofascism whether you and others choose to admit it or not.

The sooner we get tougher on terrorists, the sooner things will get better--but they will undoubtedly get worse before they get better either way. You and your cohorts here and elsewhere can keep diddling about the finer definitions of "war." In the meantime--in the real world--war is upon us.

1/13/2010 6:24:10 PM

Quote :

"The sooner we get tougher on terrorists, the sooner things will get better"

Capital punishment will certainly deter suicide bombers. Oh wait...

1/13/2010 6:29:06 PM

^ The trick is too kill them before they hit the button or mix the explosives.

1/13/2010 6:39:43 PM

This thread is about captured terrorists.

1/13/2010 6:42:24 PM

^ It's my thread--I'll decide what it's about. Ideally, no trial or tribunal would be necessary with some good kills.

1/13/2010 6:57:54 PM

Quote :

"It's my thread--I'll decide what it's about"

This is why some posters don't want you around TSB, you act like a child.

1/13/2010 7:01:25 PM

Quote :

"The Trial of KSM and Other Enemy Combatants"

Actually-- this thread is about hooksaw acting SO TUFF on the internet toward the bad guys, but being unwilling to defend any of his arguments.

1/13/2010 7:02:21 PM

^^ and ^ Not at all--I simply don't like being told what my thread is about.

And thanks for sharing.

[Edited on January 13, 2010 at 7:03 PM. Reason : .]

1/13/2010 7:03:27 PM

If I ever start making a fool of myself in a thread that I've created, I'm going to switch the topic to unicorns.

Insta-win.

[Edited on January 13, 2010 at 7:06 PM. Reason : ]

1/13/2010 7:05:40 PM

Quote :

"The trick is too kill them before they hit the button or mix the explosives."

Quote :

"Ideally, no trial or tribunal would be necessary with some good kills."

These are perfectly lucid and valid points.

1/13/2010 7:07:44 PM

Quote :

"I'll disregard the "alive and working" criteria [...]"

http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=585966&page=1#13648140

I guess hooksaw is only a stickler for staying on topic when he finds it convenient.

What a bitch.

[Edited on January 13, 2010 at 7:08 PM. Reason : ]

1/13/2010 7:07:54 PM

^ Fuck you.

1/13/2010 7:09:27 PM

Quote :

"These are perfectly lucid and valid points."

...that have zero relevance to what we were discussing just moments before.

1/13/2010 7:10:43 PM

Quote :

"The trick is too kill them before they hit the button or mix the explosives."

Quote :

"Ideally, no trial or tribunal would be necessary with some good kills."

These are perfectly lucid and valid and relevant points.

1/13/2010 7:12:06 PM

The script is broken.

1/13/2010 7:12:51 PM

^ Blah, blah, blather--STFU.

1/13/2010 7:15:43 PM

It's back online.

1/13/2010 7:16:30 PM

What does it take to get someone suspended around here?

1/13/2010 7:17:31 PM

^ Why, what have you done?

1/13/2010 7:18:28 PM

New topic?

1/13/2010 7:23:12 PM

Take this bullshit here:

message_topic.aspx?topic=585825

1/13/2010 7:27:03 PM

What bullshit? I'm just trying to keep up with your topic changes.

1/13/2010 7:29:45 PM

Officials: DC trial eyed for Gitmo terror detainee
January 15, 2010

Quote :

"WASHINGTON—The Obama administration is conducting an intense security review as part of a plan to bring one of the world's most notorious terrorism suspects from Guantanamo Bay to Washington for a trial just steps from the Capitol, officials said. Republican critics said the plan would make the city more dangerous, risk compromising U.S. intelligence methods and provide a powerful and expensive bullhorn for Osama bin Laden's alleged lieutenant, Riduan Isamuddin, and two associates. Isamuddin, better known as Hambali, is believed to be the main link between al-Qaida and Jemaah Islamiyah, the terror group blamed for the 2002 bombing at a Bali nightclub that killed 202 people."

http://tinyurl.com/yz7uwh5

The Obama administration just doesn't know when to quit with this horseshit. And this is what should be happening to these guys:

In Pakistan, US strike kills key terrorist
Was listed as one of FBI's most wanted
January 16, 2010

Quote :

"DERA ISMAIL KHAN, Pakistan - A US missile strike in Pakistan killed one of the FBI's most-wanted terrorists, a man suspected in a deadly 1986 plane hijacking with a $5 million bounty on his head, three Pakistani intelligence officials said yesterday. The death would be the latest victory for the CIA-led missile campaign against militant targets in Pakistan's insurgent-riddled tribal belt bordering Afghanistan, a campaign that has recently escalated. One Thursday is believed to have missed Pakistan's Taliban chief. The intelligence officials said a Jan. 9 missile strike in the North Waziristan tribal region killed Jamal Saeed Abdul Rahim. The FBI's website lists him as a Palestinian with possible Lebanese citizenship. The Pakistani officials called him an Al Qaeda member, but the FBI site says he was a member of the Abu Nidal Palestinian terrorist group."

http://tinyurl.com/yhyhgm4

1/17/2010 5:42:54 AM

Shall we hit the guys' prison cells with hellfires?

I don't even understand what you're arguing anymore.

1/17/2010 6:25:50 AM

Quote :

"Shall we hit the guys' prison cells with hellfires? I don't even understand what you're arguing anymore. "

I didn’t get it either.

Maybe he wants us to release them to Pakistan, to get hit will missiles?

Or maybe he wants us to record our people slicing their heads off, and put it on youtube to send a message?

1/17/2010 9:59:44 AM

From the Obama administration:

Intelligence chief rips handling of accused plane bomber
The remark by Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair was an admission that U.S. Justice Department officials squandered a chance to gather valuable intelligence after the failed attack.
January 20, 2010

Quote :

"WASHINGTON — The nation's intelligence director testified Wednesday that it was a mistake for the government to give the suspected bomber in the Christmas airline plot a reading of his Miranda rights and access to an attorney without first using elite interrogators to question him or consulting with top officials in Washington. The remark by Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair was an admission that U.S. Justice Department officials squandered a chance to gather valuable intelligence after the failed attack, in addition to committing a series of blunders in the handling of intelligence data that prevented them from stopping the incident."

Quote :

"'That unit was created exactly for this purpose,' Blair testified before the Senate Homeland Security Committee. 'We did not invoke the (High Value Interrogation Group) in this case. We should have.' He attributed the breakdown, in part, to a failure among those setting up the interrogation unit to envision scenarios in which the team might be used to question someone captured in the United States. 'Frankly, we were thinking more of overseas people,' Blair said. 'And, duh ... The decision was made on the scene.' 'It's crystal clear to me that somebody in the Department of Justice prematurely decided that they should treat this as a normal criminal case,' Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala., said after the hearing. 'Obviously no care and time was spent on this one, it was just, "Boom!" a decision made quickly — way too quickly in my view.' Blair said the decision to file criminal charges against the suspect in federal court was made by the FBI agent in charge on the scene, 'consulting with his headquarters and Department of Justice.'"

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2010846748_congintel21.html

The DNI acting "SO TUFF," am I right, dipshits? What a colossal fuckup it was not to interrogate that terrorist. Wow.

1/21/2010 4:32:02 AM

Man Claims Terror Ties in Little Rock Shooting
January 21, 2010

Quote :

"MEMPHIS — A Tennessee man accused of killing a soldier outside a Little Rock, Ark., military recruiting station last year has asked a judge to change his plea to guilty, claiming for the first time that he is affiliated with a Yemen-based affiliate of Al Qaeda. In a letter to the judge presiding over his case, the accused killer, Abdulhakim Muhammad, calls himself a soldier in Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula and calls the shooting 'a Jihadi Attack' in retribution for the killing of Muslims by American troops. 'I wasn't insane or post traumatic nor was I forced to do this Act,' Mr. Muhammad said in a two-page, hand-printed note in pencil. The attack, which he said did not go as planned, was 'justified according to Islamic Laws and the Islamic Religion. Jihad — to fight those who wage war on Islam and Muslims.'"

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/22/us/22littlerock.html

These attacks may be more coordinated than originally thought.

Detainees Will Still Be Held, but Not Tried, Official Says
January 22, 2010

Quote :

"WASHINGTON — The Obama administration has decided to continue to imprison without trials nearly 50 detainees at the Guantánamo Bay military prison in Cuba because a high-level task force has concluded that they are too difficult to prosecute but too dangerous to release, an administration official said on Thursday."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/22/us/22gitmo.html

Some of you are not okay with this, right?

[Edited on January 22, 2010 at 5:29 AM. Reason : .]

1/22/2010 5:25:35 AM

No KSM in NYC?
January 15, 2010

Quote :

"Top administration officials are getting nervous that they may not be able to proceed with one of their most controversial national-security moves: trying Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four other accused 9/11 conspirators in federal court in New York City. Last November Attorney General Eric Holder Jr. portrayed the trial as a way to showcase the American justice system to the world—and to accelerate President Obama's stalled plans to shut down the U.S. prison at Guantánamo Bay. But because of shifting political winds in Congress, the trial is now 'potentially in jeopardy,' a senior official, who did not want to be named talking about a sensitive situation, tells NEWSWEEK. The chief concern: that Republicans will renew attempts to strip funding for the trial and, in the aftermath of the bombing attempt aboard Northwest Flight 253, pick up enough support from moderate Democrats to prevail. Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham says he will force another vote on his amendment to stop the trial (which was defeated 54-45 in November) once Congress reconvenes. 'With Detroit and everything else going on, we've got a pretty good chance of winning this thing,' says Graham, adding that he's privately heard from a number of Democrats, saying 'they're with me.' GOP Rep. Frank Wolf says he plans a similar move in the House. 'I'm afraid it's probably going to pass,' says Democratic Rep. Jim Moran, who has strongly backed the administration on the issue. Another big factor? The price tag. New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg recently sent a letter to the White House budget office seeking more than $216 million to provide security for the trial this year—and more than $200 million for each year after that. The figures have prompted some critics to say that, given the years a complex conspiracy case could take, the final cost could approach $1 billion. (The U.S. Marshals Service has briefed congressional staff members on a separate request for an extra $118 million for surveillance aircraft and armored vehicles to guard against terror attacks. White House budget officials, however, knocked the figure down to $40 million.) The Justice Department has yet to indict the suspects, nor has it given Congress the required 45-day notice that it plans to bring them to New York. But spokesman Matthew Miller says the attorney general remains 'committed to bringing to justice those allegedly responsible for the murder of nearly 3,000 people'—and 'we can do it in trials that are safe, secure, and respected around the world.' If Holder's plans are thwarted, though, one top administration official, who also didn't want to be named talking about delicate issues, notes there is a Plan B—reviving the case against the alleged 9/11 conspirators before a military tribunal, just as the Bush administration tried to do."

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/declassified/archive/2010/01/15/no-ksm-in-nyc.aspx

[Edited on January 22, 2010 at 3:46 PM. Reason : PS: ]

1/22/2010 3:45:02 PM

Bin Laden Claims Christmas Bombing Attempt
In Unconfirmed Audio Obtained by al Jazeera and Directed to President, al Qaeda Leader Vows Additional Attacks on U.S.
Jan. 24, 2010

Quote :

"(CBS/AP) Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden claimed responsibility for the Christmas Day airline bombing attempt in Detroit, in an audio message released Sunday, and vowed further attacks on the U.S. The message suggests that bin Laden wants to show he remains in direct command of al Qaeda's many branches around the world."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/01/24/world/main6135915.shtml

1/25/2010 4:05:44 AM

Two Senate Democrats want KSM trial out of NYC
1/26/10

Quote :

"Two Senate Democrats are pressuring the Obama administration to move Sept. 11 plotter Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's trial out of New York City and into a military commission. Democratic Sens. Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas and Jim Webb of Virginia signed on to a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder condemning the administration's November announcement of a criminal trial in Manhattan. 'Your decision to prosecute enemy combatants captured on foreign battlefields like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is without precedent in our nation's history,' the senators wrote. 'Given the risks and costs, it is far more logical, cost-effective, and strategically wise to try Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in the military commissions.' The letter 'shows that there is growing support, especially on the Democratic side, against this decision. Going on the record in a letter to the [attorney general] is a big step for both Webb and Lincoln,' a Senate aide said. The letter is also signed by Sens. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.), Susan Collins (R-Maine), Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.)"

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0110/32021.html

About fucking time.

1/27/2010 6:57:26 AM

its against the rules to post multiple times in a row

also, we all have the news

1/27/2010 9:32:12 AM

Why is hooksaw still posting in this thread as if he had a valid argument?

1/27/2010 10:27:22 AM

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2010/03/obama-and-ksm-a-military-trial-after-all-1-2-3-4-5-1/1

Obama and KSM: A military trial after all?

Quote :

" … To be sure, the questions aren't going away. For example, how will Obama -- who, like Holder, said a civilian trial of KSM would show the world the strength of the American justice system -- explain such a reversal? What happened to plans to try KSM in Virginia or some other part of the United States? And how would such a decision affect Holder? Some legal groups, normally allies of the administration, are expressing concern. Witness this statement from Anthony D. Romero, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union: If this stunning reversal comes to pass, President Obama will deal a death blow to his own Justice Department, not to mention American values. If the president flip-flops and retreats to the Bush military commissions, he will betray his campaign promise to restore the rule of law, demonstrate that his principles are up for grabs and lose all credibility with Americans who care about justice and the rule of law. … "

3/5/2010 8:16:50 PM

I really expected hooksaw to bump this thread.

I'm almost disappointed






almost

3/6/2010 10:44:48 AM

I will be extremely disappointed if the President allows the admitted fear-mongers in the GOP to influence him into flip-flopping on this issue.

It represents two problems. A: The obvious that Federal Court is a better and more reliable place to hold these trials, and B: that it represents a continuation of the over-politicizing of DoJ policy that permeated Bush's administration.

3/6/2010 11:02:45 AM

maybe obama REALLY means it when he says "i'm not an ideologue"

but he sure makes himself and his staff look foolish when they say grandiose things then go back on them just because it's what the Republicans want.

3/7/2010 3:12:47 AM

bump

8/17/2010 9:43:03 AM