Quote :

"I would love to see the truth come out about this Todd guy"

I worked for Todd for a few years, and I believe that he would do exactly what Mr. Wall said he did. I can definitely believe that he would tell his staff to not allow "certain types of people" in. He may not come out and tell them exactly, but work with him for a few shifts and the message will become clear. This is just the tip of the iceberg with this guy. I have some stories about this guy that are fucking crazy.

6/27/2012 8:08:04 AM

^ share those stories with us

6/27/2012 8:09:39 AM

Kudos to NC residents... really bringing the racism this morning on WRAL..

6/27/2012 8:37:03 AM

Why do some people copy the text of an article without giving a link? I mean, if there is one part of copyright that is ethical and makes common sense, it's proper attribution.

Bar manager served criminal summons over discrimination claim
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/11252208/

Quote :

"The criminal summons, issued on June 22, was served Tuesday against Todd Chriscoe, who manages The Downtown Sports Bar and Grill on Glenwood Avenue."

Quote :

"A hearing in Wake County District Court has been set for July 23."

Quote :

"A rally being called "Above It All: A Raleigh Stand Against Social Injustice" is being planned for Saturday, although a location and time have not been finalized."

Thank God they got around to naming their rally... and the only search results are WRAL! Way to suck at organizing. Maybe it's not meant for, you know, the rif raff to go to.

Quote :

"Other patrons have come to the bar's defense, denying that it discriminates. Nightlife photos taken at the bar, including those by LazyDay.com, show diverse crowds inside."

hrmm... What does TWW court say? Page 6 photos evidence of diversity?

6/27/2012 8:48:23 AM

I don't doubt some discrimination may have taken place, but how strong can the argument be, when photos do in fact show diverse crowds?

6/27/2012 8:51:33 AM

Yet more evidence from FB for my thesis that the rally is poorly organized.

Quote :

"This is the exact same time as a rally against Amendment One that's been planned for the past month on Halifax mall in Raleigh. I thought this protest was going to take place at night and near the bar. It would be sad if people had to make a choice between 2 very important protests... https://www.facebook.com/events/409585859074136/"

6/27/2012 8:53:31 AM

Quote :

"when photos do in fact show diverse crowds?"

Are the photos from that same night? Do they photos have time stamps?

6/27/2012 8:54:38 AM

But that plays into the doubt of the claim. Would it not be a weaker argument if the club supposedly discriminated on one night, but not others, according to the pictures? I could see that coming up and casting doubt here - sure anyone can come up with a reason for discrimination on one night, but to a judge/jury it doesn't seem reasonable/to make sense.

I'm asking these questions from more of a legal stance, not a questioning the discrimination - I think there is evidence for the argument, but I think it's weakened by the notion that the discrimination appears to be limited/not consistent.

6/27/2012 9:00:21 AM

The CNN news segment, recorded from someone's TV with their cell phone camera. You still get the content.

Quote :

"Are the photos from that same night? Do they photos have time stamps?"

Do you even know what LazyDay is?

6/27/2012 9:01:24 AM

Quote :

"Do you even know what LazyDay is?"

I don't. Please to explain. (serious question)

Another serious question, is it really illegal to refuse to serve someone? I've seen signs, though not in a long time, that would say 'we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone...'.

6/27/2012 9:08:00 AM

[Edited on December 9, 2013 at 9:20 AM. Reason : coca cola]

6/27/2012 9:17:01 AM

[Edited on December 9, 2013 at 9:20 AM. Reason : coca cola]

6/27/2012 9:19:16 AM

Quote :

"I don't. Please to explain. (serious question)"

They're an independent photography company that just runs around a city's nightlife (and sometimes daylife), takes pictures, and puts them on the internet. Naturally, they'll organize them by establishment and those establishments generally appreciate the favor. That means that the pictures we see from DTSB were actually surprisingly random, although I wouldn't put it behind a photographer to take pictures of the one minority couple in a club... that's a separate issue. The taking of the pictures had no connection to the case.

So the answer to your question is "maybe", because they might have taken pictures on that very night at that very bar, but might not have. Mr. Wall wasn't there for long so it's unlikely to be relevant.

Quote :

"Another serious question, is it really illegal to refuse to serve someone? I've seen signs, though not in a long time, that would say 'we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone...'."

They can post that they have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason, but that would actually be illegal. The freedom of association principles apply most strongly in right-to-work states regarding employment. People often (incorrectly) claim that such laws give employers the right to fire anyone for any reason, but what is actually does is allow the employer to fire someone without having to justify their reason. In many cases these two are functionally equivalent. In cases where someone can meet the burden of proof that the reason violated an existing law, they can still get a ruling against the employer.

It should be said that Mr. Wall doesn't have a discrimination case against DTSB. He has an assault case. On the other hand, proving in court that someone treated you so-and-so way because you're black is very difficult. They might still try that by using the testimony of dozens upon dozen of other black people who had similar treatment. Similar cases have been used by employees to demonstrate sexism and racism against employers (who won), so it could potentially work. The president is there.

[Edited on June 27, 2012 at 9:31 AM. Reason : ]

6/27/2012 9:23:52 AM

Quote :

"share those stories with us"

Well they arent really relevant to this issue, just more along the lines of how fucking crazy he is.

He has been fired from many different places for his rampant drug use, alcohol abuse and for the way he treated customers. He has been in the Raleigh bar scene for the past 20 years and nobody has a bit of respect for him.

He used to come back to the bar where I worked for him at 3 am wasted with other people. While I would clean the bar, he would smash glasses against the wall, throw chairs at me and line up coke on the bar for he and the strippers and hookers he brought with him to do.

6/27/2012 9:26:05 AM

^^ Thanks

And thanks V

[Edited on June 27, 2012 at 9:27 AM. Reason : %]

[Edited on June 27, 2012 at 9:33 AM. Reason : %]

6/27/2012 9:26:57 AM

Quote :

"Another serious question, is it really illegal to refuse to serve someone? I've seen signs, though not in a long time, that would say 'we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone...'."

Quote :

"The Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits businesses that provide public accommodations engaged in interstate commerce(read: all stores, restaurants, hotels, theaters, etc) from excluding patrons on the basis of race, color, religion or national origin. Protection for individuals with disabilities was added later, but conspicuously absent from the above list is sexual orientation...the owner can paint "NO FAGS" on the front of the store and be in compliance with the law. Private clubs are, of course, excluded, but it is my understanding that this establishment is not such a club. Could Sam's Club or BJ's could also discriminate based on race? I'm not sure if a private "club" with millions of members really counts. --------- Answer: no. Even bars and stores that are "private clubs" are not exempt from the Civil Rights Act. Quote : "Following the passage of the Civil Rights Act in 1965, dozens of businesses and facilities – including swimming pools – tried to argue that they were "private clubs" so that they could exclude African Americans. The courts quickly developed a test to distinguish between truly "private" organizations and those that only claimed to be. Very few facilities qualified as truly "private." In order to be exempt from the civil rights laws, a "private" club must truly reserve its facilities for members, and must have genuinely exclusive membership criteria – a club that will admit anyone who is not African American does not qualify. Courts deciding whether a club is “private” in this sense will consider the history and purpose of the club (including whether it was created to circumvent desegregation), the club advertises for members, it is directly controlled by its members and operated solely for their benefit, and the club is operated for profit. Membership in the Valley Swim Club is generally open to the public. Therefore, it is a "public accommodation" and not a "private club" under federal and state civil rights laws." On the other hand, a biker bar that exists solely as a hangout for the use of members of a biker gang, that doesn't let just anyone sign a list and walk in, would likely be exempt."

6/27/2012 9:28:49 AM

but you would have to prove that the reason for refusal was explicitly related to being part of a protected group

not just some guy assuming it was discrimination

6/27/2012 9:35:50 AM

The membership thing is complicated by city-specific laws that require certain kinds of establishments to be membership only based on what they serve. Presumably, most of these places never wanted to be private clubs but say they are (when asked) to cover their behind legally.

DTSB serves food, so I think the law doesn't require them to be a private club. I'm not sure if anyone has even claimed to have a membership before this event.

6/27/2012 9:36:05 AM

Quote :

"but you would have to prove that the reason for refusal was explicitly related to being part of a protected group not just some guy assuming it was discrimination"

Is this the most obvious stated fact of all time

6/27/2012 9:37:52 AM

I think that helps to paint a more vivid picture of this Todd character

6/27/2012 9:37:56 AM

thats the shady thing to me, them all of a sudden being a membership club and all of a sudden pictures of black people in the bar, lol

just stick to your guns, if there was a reason you refused the dude just say it, otherwise we have to believe there was no reason at all.

and the dress code thing is probably BS, im assuming it was a behavior the bouncer perceived

6/27/2012 9:38:43 AM

Quote :

"all of a sudden pictures of black people in the bar, lol"

huh?

http://www.lazyday.com/showalbumbyid.asp?albumID=22360

That might be the day of the incident, btw

6/27/2012 9:49:23 AM

I think he meant on their website/facebook...not lazyday

6/27/2012 9:50:54 AM

If I snorted coke, I would consider doing a line off of divababy19's magnificent rack at the bar of DTSB.....you know....assuming our black asses got in.

6/27/2012 9:56:18 AM

They have never had a membership. They sell food, so therefore they dont need to have memberships. If you can sell enough food, it is in the businesses best interests to not have a membership policy, as it allows them more freedoms.

I think that is the biggest bullshit part of all of this, because they are just putting the membership thing in to cover their asses. They racially profile, just read the dress code. This guy got racially profiled. When i worked in a bar, the only time we would throw somebody out for not drinking was if they were harrasing customers or we were at capacity and it was obvious that they were there to just creep on girls. If we werent at capacity everybody could stay. This whole thing is complete bullshit.

6/27/2012 10:08:11 AM

lol, the FB group deleted my post asking about what time the rally is.

You can read everything written there and it's still not even clear if it has a time (12-4) or not. It's likely that people have been mentioning this fact but it's impossible to tell since apparently someone is moderating the group in order to make it extra confusing.

The funny thing is that they probably need to have a permit already if they're going to get one.

6/27/2012 10:35:33 AM

regardless of whether they are a private club or not, you can't selectively enforce a membership policy.

Even though DTSB has it on their liquor license, they weren't going through the right procedures and we all know they aren't gonna sit there and drive away dinner business by requiring a membership at 5pm.

[Edited on June 27, 2012 at 10:50 AM. Reason : ...]

6/27/2012 10:46:22 AM

membership enforcement was supposed to start at 10:30pm. Just fyi.

6/27/2012 10:57:29 AM

The last time I heard that location was membership only was the during a span of one week in like 2003 when it was Stool Pigeons.

Of course, they let non-members in and getting a membership was "sign this piece of paper".

6/27/2012 11:13:29 AM

i, too, have worked with todd chriscoe.

6/27/2012 11:27:45 AM

Quote :

"membership enforcement was supposed to start at 10:30pm. Just fyi."

again illegal. If they are a membership club, they have to enforce it during all business hours

6/27/2012 12:30:04 PM

If they are a membership establishment to skirt a law regarding liquor sales then they must be membership only at all times, HOWEVER, if they are not legally obligated to be a membership establishment given their percentage of food sales then that is a decision purely based on choice and not legal obligation and thus it can be enforced at a certain time upon owner discretion as long as the practice is consistent and enforced across the board. At least that is how I understand it.

6/27/2012 12:41:17 PM

[Edited on June 27, 2012 at 1:26 PM. Reason : nm]

6/27/2012 1:26:07 PM

^^ That makes sense, although I have never heard of a place that does this, and I have never seen a membership be checked at DTSB. Does anybody following this thread actually have a membership card to DTSB?

6/27/2012 1:33:13 PM

Oh, in communications with people asking question in relation to the incident, the club owners claimed that they counted anyone who liked them on Facebook as a member and had over 7500 members.

Just think of how many of you might have been a member all along and never knew it! Even those of you who have never been there.

Oh, and the rally is 'finalized' for 12-4 on Saturday in Moore square. This really isn't any different from the prior information, but I don't know why the organizers were being weird about it.

6/27/2012 1:56:50 PM

Hope they enjoy that 100+ degree heat during their rally.

6/27/2012 2:15:28 PM

we should drive by and throw cotton into the rally

itll start feeling like real oppression

6/27/2012 2:29:56 PM

Quote :

"Oh, in communications with people asking question in relation to the incident, the club owners claimed that they counted anyone who liked them on Facebook as a member and had over 7500 members."

Lol, so any one at any age can become a member?

6/27/2012 2:55:32 PM

I used to be a "downtown socialite" for quite a few years... from 04-09

I can honestly say that this isn't uncommon or new.. by any means. The fact that its just now getting media attention is reminiscent of the Rodney king incident and how it took a videocamera to draw the attention of the greater public to an issue which was very commonly experienced in the black community. Although this is microscopic in scale, its nice to table these issues once in a while.

The "Black people" in the pictures on Lazyday are "pre-approved" black people quota.. People that the bouncer/bartender/manager have "seen before.." However there still is the greater issue of outright & blatant prejudice across the board. its done to retain the general feel/vibe/audience of the establishment and how they want to be presented to the public and other walk in business.

At the same time I understand that the venue is a business. Each of these venues cater to their specific demographic segment. And its Very clear that owners & management will fight tooth & nail to retain their client base (Just as any business in any industry)

Naturally this breeds more selective behavior at the door; Venues at the "higher end" of the spectrum obviously demonstrate this behavior to an extreme.

But that's the business, the "Doormen" are there specifically to "dress the venue"
Doormen/Management will regularly do the following

1: Create a line of waiting patrons outside of an EMPTY venue to give the appearance that its a popular spot to onlookers.

2: Prioritize women over men, by denying a few men in an effort to balance the ratio. For instance, 5 guys of any race approach the doorman and are charged an entry fee or outright denied entry while group of 3 girls and 1 guy enter for free

3: Regulate the clientèle by discriminating based on Dress, Body language, and socioeconomic class of patrons to consistently control the environment inside.

in each occasion (though much more frequently in the latter of the 3 scenarios) the "You dont have a membership" line comes up.

While reading the story Initially I thought "ohh here comes the black card again".. but I was quickly reminded of the hundreds of times that i've seen the same thing happen before.

6/27/2012 2:59:36 PM

In this context he is pressing assault charges right?

What laws govern a bar employees legal authority to physically throw you out? It is probably just one of those understood things that if bar staff tells you to leave and you do not they are going to physically remove you.

It is pretty clear that the bar is lying about one thing, they are saying they threw him out because he was not a member or guest....but they told him to buy a drink or leave, they were basically throwing him out because he did not have a drink. (and probably racist too)

Most bars do not demand that you buy a drink when they are planning to throw you out.

6/27/2012 3:05:28 PM

Also if he was being cute or taking his time after being asked to leave that's normally when he'd be physically led to the exit

Headlocks and full nelsons...bad bad...if there's no threat of harm to person or property holds such as those are a liability due to chance of injury

In those cases if they will not leave as you physically guide them you either snatch them up safety by the body or you formally trespass them and get the police involved

I just don't understand why he plays race card he's got plenty of reason to sue based on method of expulsion it appears overly meatheaded and irresponsible to the business financially

6/27/2012 3:41:33 PM

And as far as the buying the drink thing that's reasonable if applied with reasonable fairness, loitering is frowned upon with any business

6/27/2012 3:44:17 PM

[Edited on December 9, 2013 at 9:20 AM. Reason : coca cola]

6/27/2012 10:05:16 PM

[Edited on December 9, 2013 at 9:20 AM. Reason : coca cola]

6/27/2012 10:06:18 PM

[Edited on December 9, 2013 at 9:20 AM. Reason : coca cola]

6/27/2012 10:13:08 PM

Quote :

"Oh, and the rally is 'finalized' for 12-4 on Saturday in Moore square. "

They know the bar is on Glenwood, right?

6/27/2012 10:13:47 PM

[Edited on December 9, 2013 at 9:20 AM. Reason : coca cola]

6/27/2012 10:17:20 PM

Name : Todd Dowd Chriscoe
Location : Raleigh, North Carolina
Age : 44 years
Processing Date : 12-19-2010
Alleged Violation
IN JURISDICTION FE P/W/I/S/D COCAINE 90-95 A
IN JURISDICTION FE MAINT DWELL/MV KEEP/SELL CS 90-108A

[Edited on June 27, 2012 at 10:18 PM. Reason : that second charge is pretty serious, yeah?]

6/27/2012 10:18:04 PM

Name : Todd Dowd Chriscoe
Location : Raleigh, North Carolina
Age : 44 years
Processing Date : 12-19-2010
Alleged Violation
IN JURISDICTION FE P/W/I/S/D COCAINE 90-95 A
IN JURISDICTION FE MAINT DWELL/MV KEEP/SELL CS 90-108A

6/27/2012 10:18:19 PM

TODD CHRISCOE SOLD ME BATH SALTS AND DEWORMING AGENT

6/27/2012 10:18:44 PM