The problem is usually confirmation bias on the side of the conspiracy theory; throwing out all information that is counter to their position and assuming that everyone who doesn't agree has been brainwashed and hasn't actually critically thought about it.

While people will name call, there is always a number of posters trying to have a serious discussion but getting nowhere because the conspiracist has their mind made up.

4/16/2013 8:39:40 PM

Quote :

"While people will name call, there is always a number of posters trying to have a serious discussion but getting nowhere because the conspiracist has their mind made up"

that goes for both sides

Quote :

"It's hard to take a person seriously on the subject when he also believes in chemtrails and reptilian overlords, though."

argue the point, not the person

[Edited on April 16, 2013 at 8:52 PM. Reason : i did lol when i saw he interviewed a reptilian guerilla fighter, though]

4/16/2013 8:51:14 PM

What does it mean for someone to "believe in chemtrails?" Is it the same as believing in a god? Or is it the same as someone who notices them when they exist in the sky? I'd really like to know what it means to believe in them and how this apparent reality discredits my position which is that the city council should not have the authority to medicate our water supply.

4/16/2013 9:30:56 PM

forget the chemtrails

let's discuss these reptilian overlords

[Edited on April 16, 2013 at 9:33 PM. Reason : you are fucked up as a football bat]

[Edited on April 16, 2013 at 9:33 PM. Reason : like a soup sandwich]

4/16/2013 9:32:27 PM

Long-time water drinker here, just wanted to chime in.

Been drinking water as long as I can remember, haven't seen any problems. How long will it take before I start feeling the effects of this conspiracy? It would have to be at least 30 years, right?

4/16/2013 9:36:04 PM

GrayFox33 -

Do you believe a city council should have the authority to medicate your water supply?

4/16/2013 9:37:20 PM

thegoldenrul -

what do you drink, personally?

4/16/2013 9:37:48 PM

Quote :

"GrayFox33 - Do you believe a city council should have the authority to medicate your water supply?"

4/16/2013 9:41:31 PM

Quote :

"Been drinking water as long as I can remember, haven't seen any problems. How long will it take before I start feeling the effects of this conspiracy? It would have to be at least 30 years, right?"

4/16/2013 9:43:27 PM

Quote :

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken."

4/16/2013 9:46:06 PM

thegoldenrul -

Long-time water drinker here again. I am willing to take one for the team in the name of scientific research and continue drinking water; then, we can observe the long-term effects of consuming this arguably devastating substance.

I will report back in another 20-30 years with my findings on any detrimental effects.

4/16/2013 9:48:11 PM

Did you know that the guy who adds fluoride to raleighs water carries a copy of Catcher in the Rye?

4/16/2013 10:01:09 PM

What's the point of chemtrails if they could just put that shit in the water instead. Wouldn't that be a lot more efficient than using planes? Evil overlords need to hire me, I could totally save them money.

apparently my wife grew up with this kid and said, "he was always pretty weird"

4/16/2013 11:08:33 PM

OMFG.... GrayFox33, while we appreciate you offering to donate your body to the very worthwhile endeavour of finding the truth in this ground-breaking, worthwhile, and noble debate... Don't do it!

I was just presented with hard evidence of prolonged exposure to fluoridated water.... This changes everything

4/17/2013 12:13:35 AM

Lifelong water-drinker here again. Just wanted to follow up to recent remarks:

You all can ridicule me and thegoldenrul all you want, but in 30-40 years when I have conclusive evidence of negligible health issues that may or may not be related to Raleigh's drinking water, we'll see who's laughing.

4/17/2013 12:54:34 AM

GrayFox, mildew - will you guys come to my party?

/message_topic.aspx?topic=636315

4/17/2013 7:31:02 AM

I washed my pills down with water this morning as usual, and this where my mind went:

4/17/2013 8:08:55 AM

We've all got leftover trace amounts of SSRIs and contraceptives from water reclamation, even if you have well water. I'm still waiting for the contraceptives to make my breasts bigger.

4/17/2013 8:57:58 AM

and then there's the testosterone disruption from pesticides: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=pesticides-may-block-male-hormones

you can't drink the water anywhere

4/17/2013 9:07:23 AM

EIGHT pages. EIGHT

4/17/2013 10:44:41 AM

^I thought you were trying to infer something sinister, but then realized that Flourine is actually number Nine on the periodic table.

4/17/2013 10:55:00 AM

no it's not

but fluorine is

4/17/2013 11:04:23 AM

that's what i typed. unless you're trying to call me out for capitalizing it. which i did because it's one of the most sinister elements and deserves to be be capitalized.

4/17/2013 11:11:46 AM

its not our fault that scientists misspelled flourine when they invented it

4/17/2013 11:33:48 AM

haha

4/17/2013 11:48:01 AM

haha, oops. serious business.

4/17/2013 11:52:54 AM

Flour allergies are actually a big deal. I'm wheat-sensitive myself, so I'd be rightfully pissed if they were adding flour to the water supply.

4/17/2013 12:00:56 PM

plus its pretty trendy to pretend that you have celiac disease and have to eat a gluten free diet

so hipsters would be pretty upset too

4/17/2013 12:09:02 PM

maybe the OP should just switch arguments?

4/17/2013 12:11:28 PM

well that would be the prudent thing to do, and it may even get support from reasonable people

but nope, its all about using scare tactics and misinformation

4/17/2013 12:32:42 PM

I propose a preemptive measure to ban the future flouridation of Raleigh's drinking water.

We can stop it before it starts! Who's with me??

4/17/2013 12:46:57 PM

32 year old male here, with zero cavities.

So yeah, I'm pretty happy with the water supply.

4/17/2013 1:59:12 PM

i'd be fine if they stopped adding it to the water if for no other reason than it would be a way to cut costs

i'm not scared of it, though

4/17/2013 3:21:38 PM

Quote :

"32 year old male here, with zero cavities. So yeah, I'm pretty happy with the water supply."

Do you agree that a few city council members have the authority to medicate the water supply?

And I'm sure the city water supply has everythingto do with your lack of cavities.

4/17/2013 3:32:23 PM

how did the fertilizer companies get 1000s, 10s of 1000s of local governments to join in on their conspiracy to discard waste in the public's water supply?

4/17/2013 3:37:26 PM

thegoldengirl -

In response to

Quote :

"Do you agree that a few city council members have the authority to medicate the water supply?"

I realize this thread is about water, which is fluoridated. Hear me out, maybe I can offer some insight.

I am in outside sales, which is currently salary+commission, but will move into straight commission starting at the beginning of July 2010. I have been in this position since July 2009. I have competition from several direct manufacturing sales reps, large distributors, and local distributors. Here are the advantages and disadvantages of each:

Direct Advantages: Immediate knowledge of new technology, no middle man mark up, one shipping bill (paid by manufacturer or buyer of goods), access to larger range of non-commodity items, control inventory, have access to many distributors that can effectively sell their goods which increases market share, and set prices of commodity they manufacture.

Direct disadvantages: Typically have 1-3 sales reps per region (i.e. southeast, mid-atlantic, northeast, etc.) limiting the number of accounts they can successfully manage/cold-call, lack physical customer service or physical technical service available to or affordable for smaller users or altogether, are sometimes not trustworthy because they will go in behind their distributors that sell their commodity to one account in large quantities (i.e. they missed a big account, and have found out about it through a distributor selling their particular product) which leads to the distributor not selling their product anymore, have too many distributors selling the product ultimately driving the set price down through deviations, possibly rely on distributors to actually sell the product, and competition from other direct sources.

Large distributor advantages: have access to other commodities that go hand in hand with other manufacturers (poor example- grocery stores sell milk as well as cereal), get direct pricing, many locations regionally or nationally easing the shipping burden of buyers with multiple locations, personal service either customer or technical, many sales reps that are able to cover a broader territory, access to multiple manufacturers of the same commodity allowing to keep prices in check, service programs that smaller companies can't offer and direct providers can't match in price or value, and experts of many many commodities as opposed to one or a few.

Large distributor disadvantages: smaller local distributors creating price wars (think Michael Scott Paper Co vs Dunder-Mifflin), direct mfg's going in behind and stealing business, limited access to all of the mfg's (you won't find Harris Teeter name brands in Food Lion and visa versa), can't truly set prices because it's based on both supply and demand, territory management, and tough growth prospects in slower economies (this is true for direct as well really)

Local distributor advantages: Typically a good ol' boy setting where the seller and the buyer know each other for years (this does happen at all levels, but mostly at the local level), local folks are right down the street and can be used in emergencies, if the local guy buys at high enough volumes then there is no shipping charge to the end user, and access to both direct mfg's and large distributors.

Local distributor disadvantages: easily beaten in price, array of commodities, array of technology, lack of trained staff, low cash flow, etc etc etc.

This is what I have noticed in my six months, I am sure there are plenty more that need mentioning. The way I am setting myself apart as a sales person is this: I go after the big accounts right now while I am new. The big accounts, if I land them, will take care of me while I am new and building a customer base. The money made off of those allows me to focus free time on smaller accounts that get me higher margins. I build up big accounts, I would like to have 5-10 of these, then get 20-30 medium accounts. If I lose 1 or 2 big accounts, the 20-30 medium accounts keep me afloat while I go after new big accounts. I don't really waste time on small accounts simply because they basically pay for breakfast or something really small.

I will say this, if you can't get a big account in the first 6-8 months (assuming you have cash flow that you can ride this long) you could be in a world of trouble. If you can get one, it will really make going after the others a lot more enjoyable and less stressful. It's simply just very exhausting wasting any time on anything other than big accounts in the very beginning. You work just as hard on the medium sized accounts and see 1/3 to 1/36 of the money in my situation.

If you have any other questions, you can PM me. I hope this helps in the slightest!

4/17/2013 3:39:50 PM

Yes. I elected them to make administrative decisions about my city's water supply.

I thought water supply control was pretty implicit when moving to an incorporated city.

MAYBE IM JUST AN IDEALIST.

[Edited on April 17, 2013 at 3:41 PM. Reason : w]

4/17/2013 3:40:51 PM

What's next, the city council decides to CHARGE for this water? Now I've heard everything.

4/17/2013 3:42:40 PM

^
what if they chose to add lithium for its anti-depressant properties?

4/17/2013 3:45:26 PM

i'd draw the line there. slippery slope!

4/17/2013 3:48:34 PM

still waiting on PMs for the preemptive flouridation ban guys

Don't be shy!

4/17/2013 3:57:42 PM

^^^ I would hazard a guess that we'd all be pretty happy about it.

4/17/2013 4:07:48 PM

Quote :

"what if they chose to add lithium for its anti-depressant properties?"

This is really the only valid argument spun from the whole thing.

adultswim gets it. There is a dangerous precedent set by the fluoride that could potentially pave the way for something more risky in the future.

I would also like to think that advances in technology have opened up information sharing and communication enough to also help prevent a disaster on the scale of an entire water system being poisoned, for lack of a better term.

Can you imagine what the argument was like when they introduced the concept so many years ago? Then, to be the guy that has to go convince all the cities to do it?

"I know this sounds crazy, but I think we should pump this chemical to everyone on your system. I have these experts that say its a good idea, but really, we don't know."

4/17/2013 4:49:53 PM

not to toot my own horn or anything, but I've already received a PM

4/17/2013 5:29:08 PM

WRT to the slippery slope argument, in the 50+ years since they've been adding fluoride, what other medications have been purposefully added to the water supply?

4/17/2013 5:35:05 PM

Quote :

"in the 50+ years since they've been adding fluoride, what other medications have been purposefully added to the water supply that we know of?"

just a heads up on how goldenrul will read the question

4/17/2013 5:43:20 PM

Lithium in water 'curbs suicide'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8025454.stm

There's a place in Japan where lithium naturally occurs in the water supply.

This type of bio-engineering should definitely be a part of our progression as a society. If we can use science to enhance the progress and evolution in a safe controlled manner, why wouldn't we?

We already do this in other ways, it would make sense to look for methods of formalizing this process so it can proceed safely, rather than haphazardly or even worse, ignoring this growth potential by sticking our heads in the sand.

[Edited on April 17, 2013 at 5:48 PM. Reason : ]

4/17/2013 5:45:27 PM

Quote :

"Oppression of poor kids, what a joke you really are! I'm an oppressor of poor kids when I'm the one advocating that they take the money spent on these chemicals and pay for toothbrushes and toothpaste so they can have REAL dental care. "

Dental hygienist here. Throwing toothpaste at these kids won't mean they will actually use it. Most low income parents are uneducated about the importance of dental health (or don't really care because Medicaid will fully cover most dental work anyway). Even parents that understand the significance of brushing sometimes have a hard time making their kids do it.

If everyone brushed their teeth as much as recommended, my job would be a hell of a lot easier.

4/17/2013 5:54:24 PM

HOW MUCH ARE THE FERTILIZER MANUFACTURERS PAYING YOU?!?

4/17/2013 6:06:07 PM

Quote :

"There's a place in Japan where lithium naturally occurs in the water supply. This type of bio-engineering should definitely be a part of our progression as a society. If we can use science to enhance the progress and evolution in a safe controlled manner, why wouldn't we? We already do this in other ways, it would make sense to look for methods of formalizing this process so it can proceed safely, rather than haphazardly or even worse, ignoring this growth potential by sticking our heads in the sand."

are you serious? you think we should distribute anti-depressants through drinking water, without taking into account individual dosage, effectiveness, and desire to be "anti-depressed"?

[Edited on April 17, 2013 at 6:53 PM. Reason : .]

4/17/2013 6:46:11 PM