Yeah, we should go back to the Gottfried formula of getting in based on strength of schedule (not by beating good teams, but just playing non-terrible ones) rather than by winning.

11/20/2018 12:50:35 PM

That's clearly not what he was suggesting but nice straw man.

11/20/2018 1:14:53 PM

Thanks!

For the record, I think our OOC schedule this year is perfectly fine. And as a fan I'd rather have it than Gottfried's scheduling. We rarely scheduled "good" teams during his tenure, we just didn't schedule really bad teams. As a fan, I don't really care about the difference between a 300 rpi team and one ranked 200. They're both cupcakes. This year's schedule is better on the top end than all but maybe one of the Gottfried years.

11/20/2018 1:33:51 PM

Quote :

"a win over a ~330 team is the same as a win over a ~250 are still the same Quadrant 4 wins. But I would hope that the committee looks deeper than that in general"

Those games basically count for nothing unless you lose.

^literally nobody cares about 300 versus 200 what the people that do care want is teams in the top 150, at least

The selection committee cares, which is what matters

11/20/2018 3:18:32 PM

Yeah it’s more important to schedule those mid tier teams instead of the bottom of the barrel 300s. The top end of the schedule isn’t really a problem. Especially playing in the ACC, we’ll always have opportunities against those top end teams in the conference for wins (yes, a few more top end OOC teams don’t hurt).

11/20/2018 3:47:53 PM

Winning conference games is what really matters.

11/20/2018 5:36:54 PM

we play Whiskey, Roll Damn War Eagle, Pedophile State University and Big Dandy Vandy. Those are all quality OOC games.

11/20/2018 5:57:24 PM

Yes that is correct ^. But that’s only part of the picture. it does you no good to beat up on teams ranked in the 300s when you could be beating up on the 150s (or whatever the cut off mark is).

11/20/2018 6:43:25 PM

i think the new NET nonsense is intended to weed out the gott scheduling

our gott schedules werent actually good, they were still pretty awful in terms of actual strength, they were just really solid at gaming the RPI and its too early to say how the best way to game NET will be but i dont think playing (and winning) a bunch of quadrant 4 games is really going to matter much whereas under the RPI it actually hurts you

11/20/2018 7:05:57 PM

We also have Auburn who have sick guards. I don't expect them to win against Duke but it should be a heck of a game.

11/20/2018 7:07:35 PM

I just hope we BEAT THE COCKS tonight

11/20/2018 7:08:32 PM

So many dick jokes

11/20/2018 7:14:38 PM

These Cocks we're facing seem pretty undersized compared to our young men

11/20/2018 7:21:50 PM

I like how we're now playing Seton Hall

11/20/2018 7:29:46 PM

beverley must be shooting 80% on regular 3s because hes taking like 4 jordan crawford shots a game and i dont think hes made a single one, yet somehow is overall percentage is still good

11/20/2018 7:30:18 PM

White Walker is gonna foul out in probably every single conference game

11/20/2018 7:41:38 PM

Beverly is an excellent 3 point shooter, I can only count a handful of open 3s he missed all season. Also, the whole team is a good at 3 point shooting, at anytime on the court we have at least 4 guys who can drain it.

11/20/2018 7:44:52 PM

Daniels is still easily the most disappointing player on this team to me. All the hype from his redshirt season seems kind of underserved so far.

Remember when we were down by 4? Lol

11/20/2018 7:57:10 PM

the preseason concern about shooting does seem like it was misplaced, although beverley aside im not especially convinced we have knockdown shooters as much as im convinced that keatts is really good at getting his teams to make extra passes and take good shots

markell turning into junior year ty lawson doesnt hurt either

11/20/2018 8:07:43 PM

I met family in Myrtle Beach and was trying to stream the game first, but WatchESPN app said it was blacked out in my area, so I took over the TV and changed the channel off the Hallmark movie channel that my wife and mother were watching, and was searching for the game. Well I finally found the Fox Sports Carolina channel, but before I found it I came across the Lipscomb at TCU game, and man TCU’s new court design is not easy on the eyes.

11/20/2018 8:14:23 PM

Why does everyone not understand that games on regional fox sports channels won't be streaming on a competing network? This shit baffles me.

[Edited on November 20, 2018 at 8:24 PM. Reason : This is not about you^ specifically, I've seen it many times.]

[Edited on November 20, 2018 at 8:25 PM. Reason : You can stream it on fox sports go]

11/20/2018 8:23:20 PM

I was about to download the Fox Sports Go app, but realized at this point it would be easier to just take over the TV and change the channel. It makes no sense though that it would even be an option to try on the WatchESPN app. It even says on ESPN’s Bottom Line that it is on the ESPN app.

[Edited on November 20, 2018 at 8:34 PM. Reason : ]

11/20/2018 8:34:04 PM

Quote :

"Winning conference games is what really matters."

Do you think our seed in the NCAA matter? Then OOC matters.

11/20/2018 8:34:10 PM

Yes, schedule like Gottfried and play in the play in games!

11/20/2018 8:37:46 PM

calling daniels al freeman may have been an insult to al

11/20/2018 8:40:09 PM

I was wrong. We’re bad now.

11/20/2018 8:41:51 PM

^^^gotts ooc schedule is largely why we made the NCAAT a couple of times. There’s no arguing that he scheduling was good for how the committee did things at the time

[Edited on November 20, 2018 at 8:43 PM. Reason : R]

11/20/2018 8:43:14 PM

We're taking the gas off the breaks, game was over after first half.

11/20/2018 8:44:22 PM

^^yes, and I'm confident that this team/coach can actually win games in the conference and not be reliant on playing a bunch of 150-200 level teams to make the metrics look good enough to sneak in the back door of the tournament so the coach can get a bonus.

11/20/2018 8:46:55 PM

Nobody is saying that Jesus you are a pain in the ass

It's OK to BOTH win in conference AND schedule smartly OOC. Its not a one or the other case.

Nobody is saying if you schedule smart you don't have to win in conference. Hopefully we aren't balancing missing or making the tourney, hopefully instead balancing getting a 9 seed or getting a 7

[Edited on November 20, 2018 at 9:00 PM. Reason : E]

11/20/2018 8:58:10 PM

Okay, but seriously have y’all seen TCU’s new court design.

11/20/2018 9:02:27 PM

Yeah a smarter OOC schedule is probably gonna help in terms of seeding. Yeah, it shouldn’t be a crutch to be the only reason we make the tourney. But i am in favor of anything that’s gonna look better for the committee. And playing the worst teams in D1 isn’t really helping us in any way

Boy that was a sloppy 2nd half but...at least we covered the spread.

[Edited on November 20, 2018 at 9:10 PM. Reason : ^I have not. Post a pic!]

11/20/2018 9:09:55 PM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DjcTZyhUwAMQarG.jpg:large

11/20/2018 9:17:25 PM

This picture doesn’t do it justice from what you see on TV.

11/20/2018 9:17:32 PM

By the way if you want to see it it is currently on Fox Sports South and they are losing to Lipscomb currently. Currently they are ranked #18 in the country. More proof that early season rankings shouldn’t be allowed. No one knows who is actually good right now. Villanova has a blowout loss to Michigan, and people chalked it up to some of the Michigan players wanting revenge for last year, and then goes and loses to Furman.

11/20/2018 9:22:22 PM

^^^and also if we can win enough acc games, it should be almost no added challenge to change a couple 250-300 teams to 150-100. The only argument against doing that is "oh we have a new team we need time for them to gel" but if they can find beat teams in that range easily in November, I'm not sure theyll change enough to matter in February.

11/20/2018 9:22:49 PM

^^to be fair, Furman is actually pretty decent

11/20/2018 9:25:30 PM

Well why don't we talk about Gottfried avoiding scheduling legitimately good teams and instead loading up on slightly better than cupcakes. Because solely as a fan I'd take this year's ooc schedule over almost any Gottfried one.

11/20/2018 9:27:31 PM

Ultimately the best thing to do for a program to schedule to meet your goals. In football for instance, there is zero point in scheduling hard unless you are a top 10-5 program. The goal is to win as many games as possible. It is much easier to recruit and develop a program winning 9 and 10 games a year on a weak schedule instead of scheduling hard and winning 6-7. Get to a bowl consistently and win one and hopefully get double digit wins. Only teams like Washington St, ND, or UCF that are top 10 teams but not guaranteed a playoff spot like Clemson and Bama need the boost from a hard schedule.

Likewise in basketball, keep making the tourney, don't make life harder on yourself. If you could be a 1 or 2 seed then great, schedule to emphasize that you deserve a higher seed, but there isn't any point otherwise if you see a way to game the system to make the metrics work better.

You can say that this is a loser mentality and that you have to be willing to take on the big dogs to be one but that's bullshit. Bama doesn't play anybody in the OOC. Duke goes out of its way to not play true road games in the OOC. Its not reality that good teams are out here making their lives harder than they need to be. They take any advantage they can get.

Finally there's the argument that it sucks to have a weak schedule, but you know what sucks more? Losing and missing the postseason. That leads to coaches getting fired, players transferring, and general lack of continuity that kills programs.

11/20/2018 10:27:00 PM

its a good thing they ditched the rpi cuz i just took a look at how our numbers look in the rpi and we basically have one of those schedules where youre not getting into the tournament unless you get to 25 wins a la penn state and their 80rpi last season

11/20/2018 10:30:51 PM

Football and basketball are completely different. Football doesn't care about SOS for all but 5-7 teams. A couple wins here and there mean everything in football.

The goal in basketball should be to maximize your ncaa seed to, presumably, maxmize your chances of going farther in the tourney.

Also I would guess in recruiting that a 22 win vs a 20 win season doesn't make much difference, but in football 9 vs 7 could make a huge difference

11/20/2018 10:33:33 PM

Our RPI will go up when we play Wisconsin, Vanderbilt, Auburn, Penn State and enter conference play. The ACC in basketball is often likened to the SEC in football. No need to schedule uber hard and rack up OOC losses only to turn around and rack up even more conference losses and miss the tournament. If we play to our potential we could go 4-0 against those OOC teams or we could play terrible and go 0-4. We’ll be lucky to make it to .500 in conference play in the ACC this year, which should in and of itself get us into the tournament.

I would love for the Pack to play in Maui one year though, but I’ll take Miami anytime for some OOC games particularly since I live there. Hopefully we play Vanderbilt better than the last time. I was at that game in the Meadowlands a few years ago as I was a short drive away since I was living in Philly at the time. I remember that day well as that was also the same day we last beat Clemson in football.

11/20/2018 10:41:42 PM

^^ I agree you can make that argument but I would say that there isn't much difference between a 12 through a 5 seed in this day an age and lately higher seeds are making it into the second weekend and beyond more and more. Really what you want to avoid if youre in a major conference is being one of the last in and making the first four. The only really easy path anymore is as a 1 or 2 seed (lol Virginia) so you are still talking realistically about 1-8 blue blood top teams. That's why personally I don't think there is as much difference between Football and Basketball especially post CFP.


Final point: Schedule smarter not harder whatever that means for whichever sport, there is little reason not to do it.

[Edited on November 20, 2018 at 10:59 PM. Reason : last point]

11/20/2018 10:48:50 PM

Yea no, having a higher seed still lends you a better shot.

Last year seeds 4-7 were 11-5 in the first round, which is right around where its been historically. Not to mention, jumping out of the 8-9 game skyrockets chances to make a sweet 16. And your point about the play in game works farther up too, if you make it to a 6 seed you have a 50% shot to play a team on less rest.

https://www.betfirm.com/seeds-national-championship-odds/

[Edited on November 20, 2018 at 11:02 PM. Reason : Link]

[Edited on November 20, 2018 at 11:04 PM. Reason : 2017: also 11-5]

11/20/2018 11:00:13 PM

Quote :

"Our RPI will go up when we play Wisconsin, Vanderbilt, Auburn, Penn State and enter conference play."

yeah not really. our noncon SOS is projected to be 346 (of 353) because keatts loaded up an unbelievable eight games against teams that are going to be bottom barrel RPI trash (bottom barrel meaning teams ranked so low that winning will cause a bubble team DROP in the rpi solely for playing the game)

one of the reasons the rpi is a joke is because it literally doesnt matter who you schedule in the other games if you have more than like 3 of these trash games. you could line up duke, uk kentucky in a row instead of our current slate of "good games" and it might move that noncon SOS up to like 340 instead of 346. on the other hand, subbing in mediocre major teams like what gott used to do instead of playing auburn wiscy vandy might drop that 346 to 350.

im not sure what effect the new system will have for us. as far as i can tell they basically throw out "group 4 wins" so all these games dont actually matter whether theyre against st peters of the poor or saint francis of the just above the welfare line. the concern is we're going to have like 11 group 4 games and basically zero group 2 games, so we actually need to win a lot of our group 1s

11/20/2018 11:09:05 PM

^^No doubt that being higher is better but I'm trying to make the point (admittedly not as well as I would like) that for most programs the goal is just getting there and seeing what happens if you get lucky and for that there isn't a huge difference in final outcome (losing at some point before the Elite 8- Final Four stage). As you say winning with a low seed isn't as likely but getting a top seed isn't realistic for most programs and no amount of tough scheduling is gonna help most teams move up if you aren't winning your conference. The benefits of tough scheduling only really come into play for a few teams and the rest are better off scheduling not complete garbage but not so hard to handicap yourself for something you aren't going to benefit from significantly.

[Edited on November 20, 2018 at 11:10 PM. Reason : can't type]

11/20/2018 11:09:54 PM

I think I finally realized by your last sentence that you are agreeing with me and arguing against a really tough schedule. I have no dog in that fight so I will cease my argument.

11/20/2018 11:16:14 PM

^Yeah I think we were just coming at it from different directions

11/20/2018 11:17:00 PM

its really impossible to say what the best way to game the new system is. its possible keatts' method of scheduling ten 100% 10+ point wins to have no bad on your resume and pad the nerdstats while trying to pick up big time wins to stand out might be a hack and get us like a 4 seed when we're an 8 seed in actual strength

i think its also possible that could go the other way by 4 (or more) seed lines also and seems like an unnecessary risk until we know exactly how things are going to change.

im guessing keatts ultimately doesnt care that much, he seems more concerned with winning big time than with trying to game the bubble and figures if he has a bubble team hes not winning the acc or the ncaa anyway but idk about that attitude, making the tourney is fun and it seems theres one shit double digit seed in the final four every year now

11/20/2018 11:41:27 PM

His goal this season is to wear the opponent down and throw a lot of athletic guys that play hard and rotate 10 or more guys all season.

Offense and Fast Breaks are paired with full court pressure for a large part of the game.

11/21/2018 1:51:44 AM