Conservatives might care about equality of opportunity (that's also a stretch), but the people you put into office don't.

3/16/2017 7:10:48 AM

ok, JCE...it's the democrats fault. now what?

[Edited on March 16, 2017 at 9:15 AM. Reason : lemme guess...your next post will be about the democrats/liberals/SJWs]

3/16/2017 9:15:09 AM

^^ True, but they are better about it than the democrats, who embrace equality of outcome.

3/16/2017 10:04:28 AM

Who is going to be the first to lose it and call Trump a moron who lies all the time?

Paul Ryan was close just now. Talking about his baby (health care) and the first question was about the crazy guy's claims about wiretaps. He held it together but was basically like "no, we covered this."

** although any GOP who works with Trump is an idiot. He humiliate anyone who does (Chris Christie and now Ryan). Its just not worth it.

[Edited on March 16, 2017 at 10:58 AM. Reason : X]

3/16/2017 10:57:25 AM

There is no evidence that the ACA is failing. 12 million people enrolled in exchanges plans for 2017, a few hundred thousand less than last year. However, since more states expanded Medicaid the uninsured rate continued to shrink. Louisiana, for example, added 500k to their Medicaid rolls. Satisfaction rates with Obamacare plans remain high and more than 80% of enrollees receive subsidies that offset any premium increase.

Employer insurance premiums continue to grow at historically low rates while enrollment remains steady in that market. Remember, the main reason the CBO's estimate about exchange enrollment was off is they expected more people to switch from employer insurance to exchange plans. Instead, people kept their employer plans which remained relatively stable cost wise and more people signed up for Medicaid than they expected. Their total estimate of people who gained insurance under the law was right on.

The CBO also predicted that the ACA marketplaces should remain relatively stable over the next decade, even with no further legislation. The premium increase on the marketplace we saw last year was a one time adjustment, mostly accounting for lower than expected premiums the first 3 years. That doesn't mean there aren't problems that could be addressed. Holdout states need to expand Medicaid and subsidies should be available at higher income levels. However, the entire GOP narrative of the law collapsing on it's own is disconnected from reality.

3/16/2017 12:06:10 PM

ACA made things better in some ways, but it's still a failure because it did nothing to move us toward single payer. It further entrenched us in the scam that is health insurance. Dems should have dropped it and tried again later when the public option failed.

3/16/2017 12:55:39 PM

Quote :

"Price says states should decide whether vaccines are required"

How about science gets to decide that one? I like not having the measles. And polio.

And smallpox.

3/16/2017 12:59:13 PM

^^I really don't think there's anyone else on here who drinks more Kool-Aid than you do.

Quote :

"There is no evidence that the ACA is failing. "

How about the little notion that major carriers are dropping ACA plans left and right? Isn't it only BCBS in NC now that offers plans? So they now have a monopoly on ACA plans in NC.

3/16/2017 1:01:43 PM

Need to eliminate the bullshit health insurance industry. Absolutely sham.

3/16/2017 1:06:04 PM

Quote :

"How about the little notion that major carriers are dropping ACA plans left and right?"

But is that actually evidence of ACA failing?

Quote :

"A federal judge has ruled that Aetna wasn't being truthful when the health insurer said last summer that its decision to pull out of most Obamacare exchanges was strictly a business decision triggered by mounting losses. U.S. District Judge John Bates concluded this week that Aetna's real motivation for dropping Obamacare coverage in several states was "specifically to evade judicial scrutiny" over its merger with Humana. Aetna pulled out of Obamacare exchanges in 11 states last August, including 17 counties in Florida, Georgia and Missouri where the Department of Justice argued the merger would wipe out competition. That decision to retreat from Obamacare came just a month after the Department of Justice blocked Aetna's $34 billion merger with Humana on antitrust grounds. But Bates said this week the DOJ presented "persuasive support" -- including internal Aetna emails -- for the conclusion that Aetna (AET) withdrew from the Obamacare exchanges in those counties "to improve its litigation position." "The Court does not credit the minimal efforts of Aetna executives to claim otherwise," Bates wrote in a ruling following a trial over the merger. "

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/24/investing/aetna-obamacare-humana-merger/

3/16/2017 1:10:50 PM

Quote :

"There is no evidence that the ACA is failing"

3/16/2017 3:31:32 PM

That's just evidence there's a shit ton of really gullible people in America.

3/16/2017 3:45:45 PM

3/16/2017 3:46:03 PM

people have always complained about insurance and now instead of putting the hate towards the insurance companies they put it towards the ACA.

Trump says he will give everyone cheap insurance. Hilarious.

3/16/2017 4:03:23 PM

Quote :

"people have always complained about insurance and now instead of putting the hate towards the insurance companies they put it towards the ACA. Trump says he will give everyone cheap insurance. Hilarious."

3/16/2017 4:08:44 PM

Obama says you can keep your doctor and premiums will go down... the opposite happens.

Democratic hacks think the ACA was a success.

Hilarious.

3/16/2017 4:39:07 PM

^^^
Which is why Dems need to stop defending the ACA. Support a repeal while planting the seed for single payer. Start saying "yes, the ACA is a failure because health insurance is not the solution."

[Edited on March 16, 2017 at 5:30 PM. Reason : .]

3/16/2017 5:27:47 PM

It's painfully obviously JCE has never known insurance without the ACA

Ive bought insurance through my employers, as an independent contractor before the ACA, and on the exhange in NYS. Currently I buy through my employer. Rates in NYS are pretty reasonable compared to 10+ years ago. And keeping your doctor is such a stupid fucking thing to bitch about. If you switch jobs and have different insurance, guess what! You get a new doctor.

The ACA has loads of issues but it's bc the insurance companies still exist.

3/16/2017 6:24:32 PM

I had ACA when I got fired from my hedge fund job (i was in ops so don't go thinking i was making a shitload of money).

Anyway, ACA was a lifesaver. I could have paid for insurance via COBRA for like 700 a month or pay like 150 a month on ACA (included a tax credit because i was unemployed, otherwise it would have been i think 350).

Zero complaints about when I had it, from a personal standpoint.

3/16/2017 6:34:44 PM

I was paying for shit catastrophe insurance in 2009 for around $250 a month. ACA made this not an option but I ended up with decent insurance for $400ish.

I now buy through my employer as I did in 2007-2008 and its around the same amount. It's good insurance and the rates and deductible are essentially the same.

Car insurance in NYC is out of hand tho.

3/16/2017 6:42:26 PM

^^^ so, this is the thing... why should changing employers have any bearing on which doctor you go to? The two shouldn't have any connection whatsoever. This isn't necessarily a criticism of the ACA (though the ACA did make the problem worse). Rather, it's a criticism of our insane health insurance setup, where don't treat it as actual insurance, but as a group savings plan. And then hacks like Shrike and adultswim come in and marvel that "insurance doesn't work" and pivot towards single payer with a shit-eating grin.

3/17/2017 9:27:10 AM

ACA or not, that's just how insurance in this country works. I had to change dentists a few times as a kid bc they would stop taking the insurance my family had or my dads company changed the policy.

It's not ideal.

3/17/2017 9:37:52 AM

^^^^ No way! You're telling me that as an unemployed person you didn't mind taking other people's tax dollars???

Overall how would you rate free money? I've heard its nice? Did you like free money?

3/17/2017 9:55:23 AM

Quote :

"ACA or not, that's just how insurance in this country works."

but only because of progressive ideas. it doesn't have to be that way.

http://thefederalist.com/2014/07/03/a-simple-solution-to-healthcare-woes-separate-health-insurance-from-employment/

Quote :

"The U.S. government tied health insurance to employment during the New Deal. Under the 1942 Stabilization Act, Congress set salary caps—limits on what employers could pay employees. They permitted employers, however, to offer other benefits as a recruitment tool. This was about the same time that health advances made health insurance desirable. (Prior to World War II, healthcare tended to be routine or palliative.) Faced with salary caps, employers started offering health coverage to employees as additional compensation. In a few short years, those benefits became an essential part of compensation. In 1945, the War Labor Board ruled that employers could not modify or cancel group insurance plans during the contract period. Soon, employment-based health insurance became a way to avoid taxable income. Under the 1954 Internal Revenue Code, employer contributions to employee health plans were exempt from employee taxable income. In short, when Congress prevented employers from paying employees what they would have earned in a free exchange —a rather ironic position for progressives to take—then advances in medicine converged with tax-avoidance manipulations—another ironic position for progressives—to create the United States’s employer-provided health insurance market. It is a bad habit encouraged by the tax code."

3/17/2017 10:11:12 AM

Quote :

"Which is why Dems need to stop defending the ACA. Support a repeal while planting the seed for single payer. Start saying "yes, the ACA is a failure because health insurance is not the solution."

What does this look like? Surely you don't mean support Paul Ryan'a current bill do you?

Quote :

"And then hacks like Shrike and adultswim come in and marvel that "insurance doesn't work" and pivot towards single payer with a shit-eating grin."

This is extremely unfair, especially to the latter who seems to be one of the few not beholden to a party.

[Edited on March 17, 2017 at 11:05 AM. Reason : And how does reasoned support for single payer make you a hack?]

3/17/2017 11:01:22 AM

Quote :

"reasoned support for single payer"

lawl

3/17/2017 11:45:04 AM

The biggest problem with single payer is convincing people to give up their employer sponsored coverage and pay higher taxes. It's basic math that you can't expand coverage without making people pay more, even single payer doesn't change that. Obamacare only directly increased taxes on the rich but many middle class folks had to either pay higher premiums for more comprehensive plans or pay the IRS penalty. This was the "stupidity the American voter" thing was all about.

To take support for single payer seriously, I'd have to see polls that gauge support by potential cost. Are you willing to pay 3,5,10% more in taxes for universal healthcare? Obamacare hid those costs behind insurance premiums and the individual mandate, but with single payer it'd be right there in plain language.

3/17/2017 11:59:16 AM

You pay more in taxes, but you don't pay for insurance. We pay something like twice as much per person as countries with single payer.

How is this point not getting through to people?

[Edited on March 17, 2017 at 12:04 PM. Reason : .]

3/17/2017 12:03:13 PM

Quote :

"The biggest problem with single payer is convincing people to give up their employer sponsored coverage and pay higher taxes."

and receive an even shittier product

3/17/2017 12:03:59 PM

single payer is the best solution, single payer also isn't politically feasible. the best change single payer had was before ACA and it didn't have enough support to beat ACA

Quote :

"and receive an even shittier product"

lawl

[Edited on March 17, 2017 at 12:05 PM. Reason : lawl is how us rednecks say it]

3/17/2017 12:04:41 PM

^^
http://www.gallup.com/poll/186527/americans-government-health-plans-satisfied.aspx


[Edited on March 17, 2017 at 12:05 PM. Reason : .]

3/17/2017 12:05:02 PM

i'm sure they are quite satisfied. subsidies are pretty satisfying.

3/17/2017 12:07:07 PM

We get it dude, you're a libertarian. Lol. Reasoned arguments or you're wasting your time.

[Edited on March 17, 2017 at 12:08 PM. Reason : .]

3/17/2017 12:07:41 PM

did that study ask the guys in line at the VA if they're satisfied?

3/17/2017 12:10:47 PM

Read the first table. Veterans are the most satisfied, surprisingly. People with government-subsidized care are more satisfied than people with employer-subsidized care. So your point above is moot as well.

3/17/2017 12:13:13 PM

it must have been the $20 million the VA pissed away on artwork that satisfied them

there's no point in reasoned arguments in TSB. i'm not gonna change your mind. you're not gonna change mine.

[Edited on March 17, 2017 at 12:17 PM. Reason : d]

3/17/2017 12:15:13 PM

The VA is, by orders of magnitude, the largest integrated healthcare system in the country. It's patient population is also older and sicker than the national average while being consistently underfunded. It still manages to have higher patient satisfaction than most private health care providers. Measures like mortality rates in VA hospitals are the same or better than the private sector. Yeah, some people waited a long time for treatment. People wait a long time for treatment in the private sector as well.

3/17/2017 12:18:48 PM

^^
Yeah, VAs should look more like a scene from Jacob's Ladder. Fiscal responsiblity.

I've had my mind changed lots of times here. Or at least come to a more reasoned stance.

[Edited on March 17, 2017 at 12:20 PM. Reason : .]

3/17/2017 12:18:58 PM

And the other thing about the VA - politicans can ignore it because it's only a subset of the population. What if everyone used it? We would demand even better care.

3/17/2017 12:22:36 PM

at least we both agree that paul ryan's healthcare plan is shit

[Edited on March 17, 2017 at 12:23 PM. Reason : ^govt has been very responsive to all our other requests]

3/17/2017 12:22:55 PM

How would health care get shittier if the government is paying my bill and I'm paying higher taxes as a result??? I am not proposing changing how health care is handled/bought but I am proposing changing how it's paid for.

3/17/2017 12:53:43 PM

govt fucks up everything it touches with layers of bureaucracy, fraud, waste, and abuse

3/17/2017 12:59:48 PM

lawl

3/17/2017 1:02:38 PM

Did the government fuck your girlfriend?

3/17/2017 1:06:50 PM

Quote :

"govt fucks up everything it touches with layers of bureaucracy, fraud, waste, and abuse"

Rather deal with layers of bureaucracy meant to help me than layers of middle men seeking higher profit for themselves.

3/17/2017 1:09:06 PM

Quote :

"govt humanity fucks up everything it touches with layers of bureaucracy, fraud, waste, and abuse "

The whole point of voting/democracy/activism/politics/laws is to minimize the potential problems introduced by human factors in organizational systems

3/17/2017 3:40:25 PM

Quote :

"Rather deal with layers of bureaucracy meant to help me than layers of middle men seeking higher profit for themselves"

In order for them to get a higher profit they have to satisfy your wants/needs.

In order for a bureaucrat to seek higher profit, they just have to exist.

Both are susceptible to corruption, but at least the first has to be as or more efficient than its competition, whereas the 2nd has no such standard. The closer we can get to pure capitalism the better.

3/17/2017 4:41:54 PM

Quote :

"In order for them to get a higher profit they have to satisfy your wants/needs."

Not true, as you said below. In this type of market, where everyone needs a version of the product, they only need to beat their competition.

In a perfect society, government officials would be indebted to citizens, and personal profit-seeking would be eliminated.

In a perfect free market, corporations would still be indebted to their shareholders over their customers.

I'd rather strive for the former.

3/17/2017 5:11:22 PM

indebted to their shareholders to make money, which they make by pleasing customers

Quote :

"In this type of market"

What we have now isn't close to "pure" capitalism. Government enforced monopolies is not close to free market.

Quote :

"In a perfect society,"

Why don't you communists go and try and change some other country instead of corrupting ours

3/17/2017 5:14:19 PM

Quote :

"govt fucks up everything it touches with layers of bureaucracy, fraud, waste, and abuse"

have you never worked a 9 to 5 before? These things have to happen to insure quality.

3/17/2017 5:40:12 PM