I dunno how much they cost, but I'm sure it's about what you'd expect to pay for a good 1911. Probably $900-1500.

I don't think it'd be worth getting a 50GI unless you simply wanted to say you had a 50 (and that's just as good a reason as any).
Personally if I wanted to go bigger than 45ACP in a 1911 I'd get a 10mm. It's not bigger in diameter but it's bigger in power.

5/17/2010 10:38:41 AM

yeah, the only reason I'd get it so to have a .50cal


i'd probably do most of my shooting with the 45 and leave it set up for that when carrying it

5/17/2010 11:14:48 AM

As a motivator for working my shitty job all summer, I'm planning one handgun purchase somewhere in july/august and I need a little advice. To be simple, I want to try a Glock, I want a .45, and I also want something I could use for CCW. The obvious answer is Glock 30, but I'm afraid it will be too much for everyday CCW.

The other part of my brain is telling me to make sure I have something that I know I will carry when I get my CCW (As opposed to leaving it at home because of weight, size etc.). That part of me wants a Keltec p32 or pf9.

Basically, the p32 or pf9 are more rational choices, but I think I want the Glock 30 more for the "x factor" set of reasons, FWIW. Basically, I would love to hear any reasons why these guns specifically suck/are okay/are awesome. More specifically, does anyone have any experience with the Glock 30? I know it's a "subcompact" but there's no way of getting around the .45's slide. Is it trying in terms of EDC? How is it as a range toy?



[Edited on May 17, 2010 at 9:33 PM. Reason : .]

5/17/2010 9:11:48 PM

keltecs are made cheap. i have not been impressed with the ones i've shot.

look at the kahrs. i like my kahr cw9 so far.

5/17/2010 10:34:29 PM

Screw it...

[Edited on May 17, 2010 at 10:58 PM. Reason : ...]

5/17/2010 10:57:18 PM

Keltecs are inexpensive, and out of the box they need some tweaking. But mine have been good to me so far.

5/18/2010 12:00:47 AM

Okay. So I know it's about 20 pages back or so, however, I'd like advice where in Raleigh I should go to get a Serpa holster for my G27. I recall Lawmen being suggested. Any other locations?

^^^^ If you are looking at the Kel-Tec, I would HIGHLY suggest the Ruger LCP .380 for CC. It's a near identicle weapon, however, reviews suggest that durability/reliability is better than the Kel-Tec. I liked the fit and finish of the Ruger over the Kel-Tec. Something to consider... I plan on getting an LCP for futuer CC. For now, my G27 will do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JWmBlmLTzQ

Here's a review by Nutnfancy. He's a bit long winded, however, I feel he's pretty thorough.

[Edited on May 20, 2010 at 1:22 AM. Reason : .]

5/20/2010 12:58:02 AM

Kahr P380 is something also to consider:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX0uTZlu-Lc

5/20/2010 1:46:10 AM

Just picked up a Taurus PT709 "Slim" for the wife. 7+1, 9mm, 2 steel mags for $360 at Young Guns.

It took 5 months of pretty steady looking to get the right gun. She handled dozens and dozens at plenty of different stores and shows, and the only two she found acceptable were this Taurus and the Kahr PM9 (twice the cost).

We'll see how she shoots this weekend.

It's our anniversary today, and she said "instead of going to dinner or whatever other surprise you have planned.......ummmm, can we go get my gun?"

5/20/2010 4:06:28 AM

^that's awesome


and while there are some Taurus haters on here, I'll be the first to say that I love mine and have had no problems whatsoever (I have the 24/7)- i think the only thing I would change about mine is the trigger pull (a bit long and heavy). Other than that, it shoots like a champ, doesn't jump too much (it is a full size 9mm though) and it is pretty accurate/consistent when compared to the glocks, XD's, MP's, and other similar size 9's I have shot

5/20/2010 2:05:00 PM

[[user]shimorri2[/user] -The best place for a Serpa is Ebay. You can get them for HALF of what any local retailer is selling them for.

catzor -How about the Glock 36? It is .45 ACP and you have 7 rounds in a compact package.

[Edited on May 20, 2010 at 4:42 PM. Reason : .]

5/20/2010 4:41:23 PM

Because I forgot it existed.

That actually sounds as if it would meet my needs/wants perfectly. It's just a matter of whether of not I want to drop the $500-600 on one right now vs getting a Keltec for less than $300.

Does lawmans sell used police trade-in glocks? What are the prices like on well worn but functional ones?

[Edited on May 20, 2010 at 5:16 PM. Reason : .]

5/20/2010 5:10:05 PM

^^ Ffuuuuuuuuuuuck. I just went to lawmen. Oh well. I like it and I need one now anyways.

5/20/2010 5:44:16 PM

^^Sorry I didn't check while I was there

5/20/2010 6:54:16 PM

^^about 425 or so, but mostly they have 22s from what I have seen.

5/20/2010 9:03:28 PM

Christ...I don't think there's an item on the planet that holds its value quite as well as a Glock.

5/20/2010 9:30:40 PM

I'm currently living in Fayetteville and I'm about to take a trip, one that involves me cutting across Fort Bragg on a pretty main route (see: http://tinyurl.com/2uuezll). I've never been around military bases that weren't gated off, so I'm a little bit nervous about it in general, but mainly I'm wondering if I can drive through with a gun in my car. Any advice on this?

EDIT: Just called and talked to the MPs, the main highways aren't considered part of Fort Bragg, so it is just a matter of following NC law. If I do end up on base, (off the main highway) gun has to be locked in a separate case from the ammo and declared at a guard gate

[Edited on May 21, 2010 at 12:31 PM. Reason : ]

5/21/2010 12:20:17 PM

Say someone is denied for a gun permit based on some BS "moral character" clause. They're 100% legal to own guns based on federal restrictions, no felonies etc. Is it considered a straw purchase or at all otherwise shady to use one of my permits to purchase the gun this weekend and let him "borrow" it indefinitely or at least until I 'gift' it to his brother via permit.

I'm probably making a big deal of out of nothing and I plan on just buying the gun anyway, but I was a little curious for future reference. Also, I was reading through TN gun purchasing laws and gun show loop holes and such. There has to be some sort of checks and balances with all of that lee-way right? I mean do the sellers have to go through hoops or do most criminals just drive to TN to pick up a weapon?

I have this vision of the TN boarder resembling the SC fireworks stands and tourist traps. GUNS GUNS GUNS UNLIMITED! 18 AN OLDER NO PROBLEMS! BUY HERE SHOOT HERE! etc.

5/21/2010 8:48:46 PM

^^ Pete I live in Fayetteville and work on Bragg, I've shot at the range there a dozen times, once a buddy of mine went through the gate with the X-tra cab of my Tacoma loaded to the gills with guns, they didn't care. You should have no problems.

5/21/2010 9:43:02 PM

I bought a glock 19 last friday. The guy at the store swears that you do not need to clean the gun for a long time until some special finish starts to wear off. He even tried to claim that "cleaning it" the standard way most do, will actually cause more damage.

Is this bullshit or true? All my gun buddies at work think this guy is full of it.

5/24/2010 2:20:28 PM

He's full of it. The typical cleaning kits/supplies aren't going to hurt your gun, unless you are constantly cleaning it (like OCD style). It's not good to let lead/brass/oils/grit/etc to build-up because they can cause malfunctions. In fact, if it's a new, straight from the factory gun, you need to wipe it down very well since the factory lubes it up for long-term storage and shipping.

Clean it when you feel it needs cleaning or when it's obvious. I clean mine every 500-1,000 rounds, which corresponds to once after each range trip or about 12-15 times per year.

If your gun is going to sit in a safe for extended periods, clean it well, use a little extra lube. If you'll be carrying it or using it at the range, just clean it well and a few drops of lube will do.

5/24/2010 4:12:31 PM

good god what shop did this guy work at?

5/24/2010 9:58:38 PM

Here's a random question:

Is there a reason American Rifleman seems to really really like the Springfield XD(M) so much? I mean, is it really that good of a pistol?



Seems like every month they're doing a spread on it or something. Maybe it's just me, but it makes a difference if they are an independent magazine or if I'm just getting a 60 page sponsored advertisement.

5/25/2010 9:02:35 AM

^^^ if you're talking about a SUPER-accurate rifle, there is some additional care I'd take in cleaning...but with a pistol? I wouldn't worry about just using any old normal cleaning kit.

5/25/2010 11:03:31 AM

^^I've got an XD and shot quite a few XDMs... I really love them. They're great guns, reliable, accurate, and comfortable to hold... so they're worth talking about at least...

5/25/2010 11:05:43 AM

Quote :

"I bought a glock 19 last friday. The guy at the store swears that you do not need to clean the gun for a long time until some special finish starts to wear off. He even tried to claim that "cleaning it" the standard way most do, will actually cause more damage. Is this bullshit or true? All my gun buddies at work think this guy is full of it."

I don't have to wipe my butt every time I poop but I do it anyway.

There's a popular misconception that you can "over clean" a gun but I have yet to see/hear any real evidence, even second or third hand.

Generally you want to clean every new gun. Just a simple field strip and wipe down with some oil will be fine. Most guns are shipped in preservative, not lubricant. A lot of guns will also have machining debris leftover that you should clean out.

In the case of Glocks, they are clean from the factory and are shipped with a copper grease lube. That is probably what the guy thinks is a "special finish." Some people swear that you need to leave the lube on for proper break in but the fact is the copper grease is nothing special. That's simply what Glock chooses to lube their new guns with because the grease stays in place when the gun sits on a shelf rather than dissipate like many oils do.

There are some exceptions to cleaning a new gun. Wilson Combat for instance doesn't want you to clean a new gun for a few hundred rounds. The purpose of this is to cause accelerated wear. A little bit of accelerated wear on tightly fitted parts = really good mating surfaces between the parts.
If a gun doesn't have tightly fitted parts to start with then accelerated wear isn't something you want.

About Kel-Tecs...yeah they're cheap. Nothing wrong with that. I own a P3AT that hasn't had a single malfunction in the 200 or so rounds I've shot from it.
I also own an LCP that has been as reliable as the Kel-Tec. I can't tell you which is more reliable if neither has malfunctioned.
The LCP's fit and finish is definitely better than the P3AT. The only advantage the P3AT has over the LCP is the grip texture is more aggressive making it easier to keep a secure grip (but possibly a tiny bit more uncomfortable to shoot for some people).
I'd skip the P32 and go for the P3AT. 380ACP is so low powered to start with that getting a 32ACP would be a pretty big step down. The two guns are basically the same size too.

[Edited on May 25, 2010 at 11:28 AM. Reason : ]

5/25/2010 11:22:24 AM

modlin- XD probably pays the for advertising/ support.
I've shot quite a few xds and two m' models, and they are decent, but nothing ground breaking.

5/27/2010 1:02:38 AM

The Wal-Mart in Apex off of 55 has lots of ammo, and they removed the 6-box limit. Just a head's up...

5/27/2010 2:02:27 PM

about time things started getting less ridiculous. too bad i'm deployed.

(i feel like last deployment when gas prices dropped from $4.50 when I left down to $1.75 or whatever)

5/27/2010 2:59:35 PM

I remember someone posted something about the book Lone Survivor in this thread. Well, heard through the grape vine today that Luttrell's mentor in the novel, Billy Shelton "retired Special Forces, Vietnam" is a fat fucking fake.

http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=18988

It's a small community. Don't let your ass show.

6/1/2010 9:48:02 PM

I am sure this has probably been covered but for good measure I am consulting the TWW gun god's to tell me the true answer. Currently I wear a business suit Monday-Friday with the jacket off during the majority of the day. I carry a Keltec P3AT in the slacks pocket strong. I have other handguns that I would rather carry (higher caliber). I have looked far and wide online for ways to carry in a business suit w/o jacket and have come up empty handed (aside from ankle which is pointless). I know there is probably not a better solution than the pocket carry but thought if anyone could provide a solution TWW could. If you have a way to carry in a suit other than pocket I would love to hear it. If not please tell me I am stuck with pocket carry so I can stop my search.

6/3/2010 8:46:45 PM

I'm no gun god, but.....

My carry guns are a S&W Sigma .40 or a G23....both pretty bulky/wide guns, and I conceal with a Crossbreed Supertuck. Any tuckable, IWB holster of quality will work with that attire and a surprisingly large/wide gun.

Dress slacks and a button-up business shirt is actually my favorite combo for concealing.

Both of those guns barely work with a golf shirt, or a t-shirt that is not XXL. I wear those, but it does take attention if I'm doing anything other than standing there.

That is the perfect outfit to conceal a large gun. For concealing a larger gun, I've found that a serious cant is necessary to hide the butt if you bend over. I carry right at 2:30 or 3:00, and it's so seriously canted that it's nearly pointing behind me. No problem with the draw.

[Edited on June 3, 2010 at 9:26 PM. Reason : a]

6/3/2010 9:25:21 PM

^^ You're definitely not limited to pocket carry in a suit. The holster is going to make a huge difference. I'd try the Supertuck like ^ mentioned. It seems to do a great job. No matter what, you can definitely carry larger calibers. Guns like the Kahr PM/MK series (actually most Kahrs), KT PF-9, Walther PPS, Taurus P-709 Slim, etc. are all going to be slim enough to conceal easily IWB. You have a ton of choices. It's really just going to come down to taking the time to find the right combo for you and maybe having to convince yourself that you are concealed even if it feels wrong. That was one of my biggest challenges. I always felt weird carrying in a suit since the fit was different than my normal clothes and carrying threw it off even more.

6/3/2010 11:52:20 PM

A tuckable holster is really the only other option if you expect speed.
It's hard though because there are so many variables like your build, clothes style and size, where on your waist, the gun, and the holster.

Stick a gun in the waistband of your underwear under your business shirt and tuck it in. Try a bunch of different positions. You might need a little duct tape to help hold it in place. Just keep trying difference positions until you find one that works. If you find a tuckable position that works then you can find a holster that will hold it there (or we can help you find one).

Quote :

"It's really just going to come down to taking the time to find the right combo for you and maybe having to convince yourself that you are concealed even if it feels wrong."

That's a difficult thing for many people to get over. The other is they don't trust themselves with a loaded gun...
Anyway, once you dress with a gun, ask a friend if they can see it. Don't ask a gun nut or se7entythree though because that would be a biased eye (my wife will always tell me she can see my gun). And keep in mind, if the person tells you they can see a "lump" or something that isn't major then there's a 99% chance they wouldn't have noticed if you hadn't asked them to look.

[Edited on June 4, 2010 at 12:15 AM. Reason : ]

6/4/2010 12:08:59 AM

I use a regular serpa for my glock 27. There is minimal bulge, but I definitely have to wear an undershirt and a polo. Just a t-shirt by itself is a bit obvious imo. I can carry with my suit buttoned and it's completely concealed without any issues. When in doubt, I just throw on a light wind breaker jacket, especially if it's to keep me dry from the summer showers

I'm still wierd with my right arm sometimes in public... If you don't act obvious, chances are others won't catch on... I'm still getting used to the idea of carrying (and making sure I don't go somewhere I'm not supposed to with it on me).

[Edited on June 4, 2010 at 1:05 AM. Reason : .]

6/4/2010 1:04:08 AM

Thanks for the ideas. I had previously considered a supertuck and am probably going to get one for when I am not in a suit. However, I am still not grasping how to get away with it in a suit. It seems to me that the belt clips would always be visable thus giving away the holster. Is the idea that people just wouldn't notice the extra clips on your belt? For me I wouldn't mind the occasional person wondering why I have extra belt clips if I were in the grocery store but don't necessarily want to be made at work functions.

6/4/2010 5:59:46 AM

They're dark clips on (what I assume are) a dark belt and dark pants. When is the last time that you noticed a coworker's belt? One of my buddies wears his phone case/holster beside his clips to camoflage them. Beyond that, they make velcro'd clips that only sit behind the belt so there's basically nothing to see. Many belt makers offer Velcro backing as options now or you can modify one of your existing belts.

6/4/2010 7:47:36 AM

^link with holster examples?

[Edited on June 4, 2010 at 11:19 AM. Reason : for Glock 33]

6/4/2010 11:18:33 AM

I use mainly my own holsters so I can't remember them all but the clips are optional with the SuperTuck: http://www.crossbreedholsters.com/Holsters/IWBInsideWaistBand/tabid/56/List/0/ProductID/8/Default.aspx?SortField=ProductName,ProductName

I've seen a few others as well (some of the competitors to the ST if I remember right).

6/4/2010 7:38:04 PM

The clips are optional with the Supertuck, but I use them and don't find it a problem.

Anybody who recognizes what those clips are is going to be CC friendly anyway. Nobody else is even going to notice. If they do, and you don't want to tell them what it is, you can still handle it in plenty of ways. "It's a medical device" pretty much ends any line of questioning, and its purpose really is to save your life.

My carry position just happens to place those clips right over the belt loops on most of my pants, and so it blends even more.

I would only be concerned about the clips if there are serious consequences to having it found. In that case, you would want/need deep concealment anyway, and the current pocket gun would be your best bet.

6/4/2010 9:30:47 PM

Thanks again for all of the input. I will probably be ordering the supertuck with the velcro hooks. Had been considering it anyway so the velco option just locked it in.

6/5/2010 7:42:38 AM

Do you get better deals at a gun show or at a local gun shop?

6/5/2010 1:29:38 PM

On what? A gun? Most of the dealers at the gun shows are guys who own gun shops, but you can occasionally find better deals at shows. Alternatively you can not have researched a certain gun, like it at the gun show, and end up paying a couple hundred more than at a local shop. It mostly depends on your shopping/buying skills.

Ammo can be the same way, people will sometimes buy walmart ammo then resell it at the show for $2 more. Its more a factor of you recognizing a good deal than just all gun shows having cheap stuff.

6/5/2010 5:07:17 PM

This may be a worthy source of information for you gentlemen and ladies.

http://www.gunshowdirectory.com/local.asp?searchType=12&popState=NC

6/6/2010 3:52:23 PM

Does anyone make an AR-style rifle chambered in .30-06? Apparently, Cobb used to, but Bushmaster bought them out years ago and still hasn't come to market with their own version.

6/9/2010 6:02:34 AM

^Are you looking for one for curiosity's sake? For most other applications, you aren't giving up a whole lot of ground using a .308 vs. a .30-06, essentially an extra 10" drop at 500 yards and ~190 fps or so. If you're looking for a better ballistic platform than .308 might I suggest .300 Win mag, It will have a comparable flight path to a .30-06 and you're more likely to find it in an AR-type weapons system.

6/9/2010 6:20:46 PM

^^You're looking for an AR-10, basically an AR-15 but chambered for 308Win/7.62NATO
I'm not aware of any AR style rifle chambered in anything longer than the 308. If you want more power than a 308 you could step up to an AR-10 chambered in 300WSM or one of the vast number of other chamberings.

6/9/2010 11:25:45 PM

The Cobbs were crazy$$$. Several of the new short magnums are doing well in the ar-10 platform. DPMS makes some good ones and C-products makes nice magazines.

6/10/2010 6:56:14 PM

Just picked up a Ruger LCP (Lightweight Compact Pistol)...unloaded it weighs slightly less than the freaking gun lock that it comes with! Ruger lists the weight with an empty mag at 9.40 ounces!

Only 6+1 in .380, not something I'm going to carry on a regular basis as I prefer good old .45 ACP, but something light and small enough to carry in business slacks, basketball shorts, etc

I'm gonna go break it in later on this week, but I'm excited...first gun I've bought in probably 2 years

Its got a very nice seamless design, the sights are very small and would be good for avoiding snags while removing from a pocket, etc, although I went ahead and got a wallet holster

http://www.ruger.com/products/lcp/features.html

6/14/2010 6:18:03 PM

^yeh, a buddy and me picked up an LCP each a few weeks ago. Let me know how your break-in goes.

I love the thing, but so far, I have found that it doesn't like Hydrashock ammo. It also had some trouble with some of my reloads... I plan on picking up a box of whatever I'm going to carry in it and see how she likes those.

6/14/2010 6:32:18 PM