Quote :

"But to jump on a coach for giving up a lead .. they all do it. It is just a matter of how you refocus your team and get the game back under control."

I think FatTony was jumping on him for not refocusing his team, not for losing the lead. Only the tested veteran ACC coaches know how to keep their team in it by calling time-outs at the right times to stop momentum, playing the right players at the right time, and saying the right things to his players. Ultimately its up to the players to step onto the court and win the game, but the coach still makes a big difference.

1/28/2009 2:10:05 PM

Sid called timeouts at the right times. When we started to lose the lead, he called a timeout. When McClinton hit a few shots back to back, he called a timeout. He tried his best to kill Miami's momentum.

You don't have infinite timeouts.

1/28/2009 2:23:00 PM

He calls timeouts at the right time sometimes. But like I said, if the players don't make it happen, there's not much the coach can do about it afterwards. What matters is the coaching that happens before AND during the game. If the coaching isn't there, then you can't really blame the players for the close losses.

[Edited on January 28, 2009 at 2:52 PM. Reason : .]

1/28/2009 2:44:06 PM

Two years ago Lowe's use of timeouts was all the rage, and that was his first year as an ACC coach. He's still adept at using them. He's been coaching for almost twenty something years now, right? I mean, they call timeouts in the NBA too.

Last weeks Gary Williams couldn't do shit right, and he's one of the veteranest guys around..

[Edited on January 28, 2009 at 3:04 PM. Reason : .]

1/28/2009 3:02:54 PM

Lowe rarely doesn't call a timeout at the right time. I don't know what games you guys have been watching.

The only time he doesn't is when we don't have any, or if he has just called one and our team didn't execute out of the break.

1/28/2009 3:03:21 PM

Quote :

"veteranest"

awesomest word ever

1/28/2009 3:05:24 PM

i think sid looks pretty credible ATM

1/28/2009 3:13:37 PM

Haha, if someone is criticizing Lowe for "not using timeouts at the right time" they have run out of other stuff to criticize about... jesus.

1/28/2009 3:15:08 PM

Imagine Coach K on our sidelines instead of Sidney for the Miami game or the FSU game 2 weeks ago. Do we lose our lead to a less talented team or do we man up and defend our home turf and hold the lead because our coach is brilliant?

1/28/2009 3:45:47 PM

For everyone who uses the argument that our current players were recruited for a different system let me ask you this. Shouldnt the coach adapt to his players?? Look at what Coach K at Duke is doing, They play a spread offense now (Instead of their regular offense from the days of Brand, Battier, etc) because his big man recruits never worked out and stunk, so he adapted to what he has. Sidney needs to adapt to what he has, thats what being a coach is about, teaching the game and learning how to use your players best. We need to stop just passing it around the perimeter and playing one on one in the post and go back to a motion style offense where great individual skills arent needed as much.

1/28/2009 3:46:21 PM

No, you play your system so your recruits know what kind of system they are committing too.

1/28/2009 3:49:15 PM

Sidney has adapted you dipshit. You think he wants to run this slow paced low scoring offense? He's said a million times he wants to run but he hasn't...and I'm glad...because we don't have the players.

But you have to run a style that fits what you know, because he's out recruiting players to come be involved in that style.

Plus, do you know the difference between a "flex" and a "motion" offense? Or do you just think that because Herb ran a princeton weave and heave that we should run that and call it "motion".


^^^don't bring that "coach K could do wonders with this team" shit in here. He's a great coach, but damn. You think sidney drew up a game plan for us to choke knutesac in that game?

[Edited on January 28, 2009 at 3:51 PM. Reason : ]

1/28/2009 3:50:37 PM

What is our system? Stand around, go one on one in the post or jack a three?

1/28/2009 3:51:34 PM

our offense is you should shut the fuck up b/c it works when we dont turn the ball over

1/28/2009 3:52:45 PM

i dont think ive ever seen someone come on here and in their very first post, discredit any future posts they will ever make.


congrats The Truth, youre an idiot

1/28/2009 3:53:12 PM

Quote :

"What is our system? Stand around, go one on one in the post or jack a three?"

So you come in here and say that Sidney can't adapt, then you ask what our system is?

[Edited on January 28, 2009 at 3:54 PM. Reason : /thread]

1/28/2009 3:54:08 PM

damn i didn't even notice the post count

1/28/2009 3:54:29 PM

^^ The offense is slow and low scoring becuase they just stand around and run sets. Pro-style set plays dont work in college, they require a lot of individual talent and NC State is never going to have enough great players to be competitive running. By the way, flex is run along the baseline while motion is run from the post to the wing. I know what im talking about i just think one of these type offenses would be more productive.

1/28/2009 3:55:53 PM

Quote :

"For everyone who uses the argument that our current players were recruited for a different system let me ask you this. Shouldnt the coach adapt to his players?? Look at what Coach K at Duke is doing, They play a spread offense now (Instead of their regular offense from the days of Brand, Battier, etc) because his big man recruits never worked out and stunk, so he adapted to what he has. Sidney needs to adapt to what he has, thats what being a coach is about, teaching the game and learning how to use your players best. We need to stop just passing it around the perimeter and playing one on one in the post and go back to a motion style offense where great individual skills arent needed as much. "

Check out pages 63 and 64 of this same thread... topic has already been discussed...

[Edited on January 28, 2009 at 3:56 PM. Reason : ]

1/28/2009 3:56:29 PM

^^ thats cool, im just killing time posting on here. Nothing we say on here matters anyways, all just opinions. Im glad we won last night and congrats to Andre Brown representing State well

1/28/2009 4:02:53 PM

Quote :

"Imagine Coach K on our sidelines instead of Sidney for the Miami game or the FSU game 2 weeks ago. Do we lose our lead to a less talented team or do we man up and defend our home turf and hold the lead because our coach is brilliant?"

Didn't Duke lose a ten point lead against us in the first half? in Cameron? With Kryzooski coaching?


And what's up with this "Imagine" stuff? Is that really what we're gonna go with?

1/28/2009 4:04:48 PM

http://coachingbetterbball.blogspot.com/2008/02/nc-states-patterned-flex-offense.html

1/28/2009 4:05:57 PM

this thread seriously should be locked.

82 pages is far tooooo many

1/28/2009 4:09:31 PM

modlin bringing the win

thanks for the link

[Edited on January 28, 2009 at 4:25 PM. Reason : also, LOCK THIS SHIT]

1/28/2009 4:23:09 PM

Quote :

"He's a great coach, but damn. You think sidney drew up a game plan for us to choke knutesac in that game? "

Of course I'm not suggesting that he drew up a plan for us to choke - what would lead you to think that?

I'm saying that he may not have what it takes to be a great coach. I think he's a good coach and a good recruiter and knows how to play himself (obviously winning a NC).

But is he a GREAT coach? Can he get us to the top 25? Every year? Up there with UNC, Duke, and Wake? Contender for the ACC title almost every season? I don't know, we will see. It's going to take a GREAT coach to get us there, not just a good one.

1/28/2009 4:28:39 PM

You are a fucking idiot

he's putting together recruiting classes that will fucking get us there

even without wall or cousins we're looking like we can get there.

I'm sorry you're frustrated that we suck, but fucking take your medicine like a big boy and support this team and coach unless you have some actual problems founded in reality.

1/28/2009 4:32:35 PM

Wait.

Ranked every year with Wake?

1/28/2009 4:33:08 PM

Retarded people are good for laughs.

1/28/2009 4:37:57 PM

damn, the lurkers have come out in force today.

1/28/2009 4:40:00 PM

wake has a good year and all of the sudden sidney lowe's not good enough to hang w/ the wake forests of the world.

1/28/2009 4:49:24 PM

^^^^^ maybe if you would actually read into my posts, you would see that my positions are objective and that I'm simply posing questions. Who's the fucking idiot now asshole?

I already acknowledged that he has great recruiting coming in the next few years - that's undeniable. But he has to coach them when they get here.

I said he MAY not have what it takes. NOT that he doesn't, but he may not - we don't know yet.

I said I don't know if we will be competitive on a national level. WE WILL SEE.

Do you not understand English? Why don't you come back when you learn it.

[Edited on January 28, 2009 at 4:56 PM. Reason : ^]

1/28/2009 4:55:32 PM

another uninformed retard posting in this thread?


shocking

1/28/2009 5:09:27 PM

nm

[Edited on January 28, 2009 at 5:17 PM. Reason : .]

1/28/2009 5:14:23 PM

durka durka

1/28/2009 5:23:46 PM

Quote :

"my positions are objective"

Quote :

"Imagine Coach K on our sidelines instead of Sidney"

1/28/2009 5:34:23 PM

1/28/2009 5:40:50 PM

ahahahahaha

tool

1/28/2009 5:44:15 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWl5qC0FBzo

plz to embed

1/28/2009 5:59:45 PM

Quote :

"You are a fucking idiot"

John, this was your first response to a post questioning if Lowe is going to be a great coach, which is a completely legit thing to ask at this point. Now I realize this is tww where calling people a "fucking idiot" is hip, but this kind of response really only makes you come off as an asshole. Just try think about this point I'm making objectively.

and then the rest of your response to his post:

Quote :

"he's putting together recruiting classes that will fucking get us there even without wall or cousins we're looking like we can get there."

100% conjecture.

[Edited on January 28, 2009 at 6:21 PM. Reason : x]

1/28/2009 6:19:52 PM

Lowe is getting the rest of this season and the next to prove himself baring and epic meltdown that surpasses the losing streak last year. I think whether you like Lowe or don't, you have to concede this point. Whether he deserves it or not, that's another story. I think even critics need to admit that there's little incentive to risk the talent incoming recruits by canning Lowe. Sidney would have to REALLY fuck things up to warrant a dismissal before the end of next season.

Second, this NC State team... it's not... it's not... it's not GOOD at anything. Yes State has talent. We all know Costner can take over a game, and McCauley is a workhorse, and Fells is a 5-star recruit and physically gifted. But really, what is this team's strength? What is it's calling card? What about this team do you need to gameplan around? The answer is nothing.

- Costner is the most bipolar player I've ever seen.
- Fells, for all his physical gifts, has never dominated his position and is currently still battling a nagging ankle injury (he was hobbling toward the end of last nights game).
- McCauley is "reliable," but he isn't going to dominate the post either. He's a slightly less physically gifted Hansbrough. He's too small to be a shot blocker and too slow to beat people off the dribble. - Degand is a serviceable PG, but he often gets out of control and commits TO's. He also doesn't score very much either.
- Mays is talented but inexperienced, which means he'll be a great contributor down the road, but not now.
- Tracy Smith, CJ Williams and Johnny Thomas all (broadly speaking) have some good physical tools but have a lot of room for improvement. Like Mays these guys will be bigger contributors in the coming two years, but not right now.
- Horner and Ferguson contribute where they can, but honestly aren't good enough.

My point - Why are some of you acting like this team should be better than it is? Who among you is willing to argue that this team is underachieving? State has mediocre PGs, two talented but inconsistent wing/SF players (Fells, Costner), solid but not dominating forwards (McCauley, Smith), some role players (Fergie, Horner) and a couple of talented but inexperienced players (Mays, Williams, Thomas). State has no sharpshooters, no "floor general" type PGs, and no big guys to dominate the paint.

So, from my point-of view, there's really only two ways to look at State bball. Either...

1) You believe Lowe's rough start is attributable to mistakes in recruiting and managing team chemistry. You believe State has lost in spite of Lowe's good coaching, not b/c of it. You also believe that players have either been underachieving or simply been lacking in talent. Ultimately you predict that things will improve next year and the year after as Lowe starts to bring in better quality players.

2) You believe Lowe has been a colossal disaster. True he has a high bball IQ, but he's nevertheless been a poor coach. The team has not bought into his system, which is why players are under performing and there has been chemistry issues every year except year 1 (when no one needed to complain about playing time). You believe Lowe has succeeded only b/c of the few talented players left behind by Herb Sendek. You believe Lowe was a "feel good" hire and is honestly not qualified to be the coach. Ultimately you predict that the team will continue to underachieve this year and next year, since Lowe will continue to struggle making full use of the potential in even his highly touted recruits (ala JJ Hickson last year)


Granted, this is oversimplifying things, but all of us are leaning one way or the other.

What i find interesting is that this is all eerily similar to the football team this year. If you honestly expected the football team to go better than 6-6, in my mind you were being very unreasonable. Given the players we had, no one in their right predicted that State was going t have a winning season. I spent a lot of time last year at State fans bitching about how TOB was a bad coach. Now State is a dark horse to win the ACC next year. Shit, I guess those of us that IMPLORED State fans to be patient might have been right huh? Perhaps they had taken the time and effort to see all the positive signs that pointed toward State's turn-a-round?


Now look, I'm an eternal optimist, but this is NOT a good team. I think those of you who honestly believe this team is/was going to the NCAAs are/were being VERY optimistic. And there's nothing wrong with that... so long as you accept that it's likely not going to happen. I'm not here to squash anyone's enthusiasm. I am however going to continue to root for the Pack. I'm a diehard fan, and sometimes being a diehard fan means letting your pride get molly-wopped (Bomani shout-out!) when times are tough.

And why? B/c I know that, sooner or later, we're going to find out what the deal is. By next year we should have a MUCH better idea of just how good of a coach Lowe truly is. It's just to tough to call right now. So I shut up, watching the games, and pray things will get better.

B/c at the end of the day... there's just no sense bitching about how bad of a coach Lowe MAY OR MAY NOT BE...

1/28/2009 6:47:05 PM

Quote :

"I said he MAY not have what it takes. NOT that he doesn't, but he may not - we don't know yet. "

I was going to comment on this, but I think ^ did it.

That the reason this thread should be locked. Lowe has shown that he can be a shitty coach, and he has shown that he can be a great coach, but he hasn't done either one consistently, so we should all shut the fuck up and wait a year and a half.

1/28/2009 6:55:41 PM

erios wins again. ibtl. gtfo.

1/28/2009 7:31:59 PM

great post as usual Erios

in regards to this

Quote :

"You believe Lowe was a "feel good" hire and is honestly not qualified to be the coach."

If people believe that then they didnt pay attention to the coaching search. Lowe basically bailed Fowler out since Fowler struck out on all the big fish. Lowe was on the search committee too.

If anything we should thank lowe for taking the job and stopping the bleeding when fowler slit NC States wrists.

[Edited on January 28, 2009 at 7:42 PM. Reason : com]

1/28/2009 7:41:41 PM

Erios hit the nail on the head. A little mental exercise for those of you who think that we are squandering great talent. Go ahead and grab a sheet of paper and make two "All ACC" teams. Unless you are absolutely insane I really doubt you have a single NCSU player on any of those teams do you? I bet even if you did a third team you would really have to stretch to sneak a NCSU player on it. That is some incredible talent
Lets lock this shit up before it goes in circles all over again.

1/28/2009 8:12:00 PM

This thread is getting really really stupid. You guys can gush over Lowe all you want, but the evidence is overwhelming that he is in over his head in the ACC. Anytime any logic is presented to the "eternal optomists" it is completely ignored or the person presenting it is called a fucking retarded shitty fan because Lowe doesn't have his players in his 3rd year, but losing our best players and introducing FRESHMEN in the ACC is somehow going to fill the void in his 4th year.

Believe what you want.

[Edited on January 28, 2009 at 8:27 PM. Reason : x]

1/28/2009 8:14:59 PM

overwhelming evidence?

1/28/2009 8:54:25 PM

1/28/2009 8:59:15 PM

^^^I guess you couldn't name any all acc players on NCSU's team could you. Yeah really overwhelming evidence...

[Edited on January 28, 2009 at 9:00 PM. Reason : asdf]

1/28/2009 8:59:45 PM

Delete pls not to suspend.

iPhone

[Edited on January 28, 2009 at 9:10 PM. Reason : iPhone]

1/28/2009 9:06:16 PM

^

[Edited on January 28, 2009 at 9:11 PM. Reason : .]

1/28/2009 9:06:16 PM