It's widely known in the elsie pea world that they don't like Hydrashocks. The bullet's just the wrong shape for the LCP feed ramp (I think the ogive is too long).

I've had an LCP for over a year with maybe 300-350 rounds through it and it hasn't jammed once.
The only hollow points I've tried are Hornady Critical Defense FTX and Fiocchi loaded with Hornady XTPs. I've shot maybe 100 rounds between the two loads and they've worked fine.

380 out of the baby guns definitely isn't the best, but the LCP is so easy to carry when size and weight matters.
I've actually gotten to the point where I shoot mine a tiny bit better than my J frame. The trick for me is to squeeze the crap out of the grip from the front strap to back strap rather than trying to squeeze it all the way around. The gun's simply too narrow for that.

6/15/2010 12:21:46 AM

yeah, I like them, but I haven't figured out a good way to shoot all 7 rounds where I'm not worried about it popping out of my hands (I have big hands so a small gun is hard to hold on to)

6/15/2010 10:12:29 AM

yeah, not being able to grip the thing is why i gave up on the LCP

6/15/2010 11:09:05 AM

Went to the range about an hour ago...had my session cut short and had to get back to work...shot about 20 rounds with my Taurus PT145, which was as usual, accurate and reliable

Then I tried out the LCP...I probably went through about 20 rounds of .380 ball FMJ and I had way too many jams and a few misfires...my first couple shots were clean, then the third misfired...had to open the action and stick a rod down the end of the barrel to push the round out...it was an actual misfire though, not a jam...primer was punched in, but slide wouldn't go all the way forward...I also had some jams

I'm hoping its just because I bought it yesterday and its still really stiff (whether its the gun itself, or the mag springs)...I can't give a great assessment of a gun's reliability when I only put a couple dozen rounds through it, but the initial test yielded less than average results...I couldn't even concentrate on how accurate the gun shot since I was having to clear a jam every 2 rounds it seemed

So far all I can say is if the gun gets a little looser and stops jamming, the weight and balance are nice...the trigger pull is kind of long, but I like that since it doesn't have a manual safety...I wouldn't be worried about the trigger accidentally being pulled if I had it locked and loaded in my pocket

This thing is so stiff, I literally have to push in the mag release button to INSERT the mag...and bear in mind this still has the factory grease on it from Ruger...not a case of a gun thats been sitting around dirty and jams...hopefully part 2 will yield better results

6/15/2010 5:17:26 PM

The jams could be the result of your grip especially if this is the first mouse gun you have ever shot.

6/15/2010 5:52:12 PM

I am fiendin' for one of these mouse guns. I like the TCP for the last shot hold open and slight price advantage, but I trust the quality of the Ruger more. Any thoughts on that comparison?

6/15/2010 6:05:44 PM

^^That might have something to do with it but I don't know...I told a guy at the range I had a misfire, he came and help get the round out and he shot a few rounds himself and experienced similar jams...he then tried again and got a few rounds to go through ok and mentioned he was holding it tighter...I guess that could have something to do with it, although it still seemed like an awfully high percentage of jams, when I was basically holding it the same way as I hold any handgun when I shoot it...and this was just FMJ ammo...I can only imagine how it handles HPs

I should also mention that I was going at minimum 1-2 seconds between rounds, so 'rapid fire' wasn't the cause of the jams

^I've had a great experience being a Ruger owner for nearly 15 years although just with a MkII pistol and a 10/22 rifle...the only issues I've ever had with either of those was some jams on the 10/22 when I used 50 round aftermarket mags, which I attribute to the springs...no other problems (except the MkII is a bitch to disassemble and reassemble lol)

But so far with the LCP my verdict is still up in the air...conversely, I've always had great luck with Taurus guns too, from revolvers to semi autos...I carry my PT145 on a regular basis because I trust it that much

So I don't really have much advice on Taurus TCP vs. Ruger LCP...not yet at least

[Edited on June 15, 2010 at 6:43 PM. Reason : .]

6/15/2010 6:30:14 PM

yeah I have a friend who had shot 9mm, .40, and .45 a lot and when he shot a .380 he had to grip a lot tighter. limpwristing isn't usually an issue with the mkII since the bolt is so light compared to the frame + receiver, but the slide is a fairly large proportion of the weight for the LCP and your hands have to do a lot of the work to make it cycle properly.

6/15/2010 8:29:06 PM

good to know, i will report back later this week after test #2

6/16/2010 12:10:37 AM

Man that sucks about the LCP.

Quote :

"bear in mind this still has the factory grease on it from Ruger...not a case of a gun thats been sitting around dirty and jams...hopefully part 2 will yield better results"

What you need to do is clean the gun really well. Rugers definitely need cleaning before shooting. It seems like they pull the blued/black oxide parts right out of the finishing solution, spread grease all over it, assemble, and box it up to ship. The grease will be filled with metal shavings and oxidation. Definitely not good for smooth operation.
Clean the mags too and only leave a light film of oil, if any, on the mag body and spring.

When you clean the gun, look for burrs or sharp corners on the feed ramp/chamber throat.

Quote :

"my first couple shots were clean, then the third misfired...had to open the action and stick a rod down the end of the barrel to push the round out...it was an actual misfire though, not a jam...primer was punched in, but slide wouldn't go all the way forward"

I'm a little confused. Was the cartridge in line with, but not fully seated into the chamber? The gun was not in battery but the primer still shows a strike? Was the strike light? How much farther did the slide need to go before it was fully in battery?

These are my guesses...either you've got a super dirty chamber (which is very possible) or there's a burr or hard corner at the chamber throat...or maybe both.
If the gun wasn't in full battery, but was close then the hammer wouldn't have it's full length of travel before hitting the firing pin. Without its full length of travel it may not develop all of the energy it needs to detonate the primer, thus making you think the ammo was bad. I'd bet if you chambered that misfired round and pulled the trigger again it'd fire.

Can you describe the other jams? Were the cartridges partially inserted into the chamber or were they stuck on the feed ramp?
When you say the gun is stiff, do you mean it's tough to rack the slide or are you just refering to the mag catch?

6/16/2010 3:36:27 PM

On the misfire, the cartridge looked to be fully in the back of the barrel, but the slide had about another quarter inch to go for it to be all the way forward...I didn't try to reload that particular round, the primer looked indented like a spent casing, and the strike was dead center in the middle of the primer

I think that might have been the only misfire though, most of the other problems were jams. Basically I would fire a round, but the casing would get jammed as it was ejecting by the new cartridge at the top of the mag. When I said it was stiff I mean not only the mag spring, but also the slide's movement itself. So I don't know if it was a combination of a stiff mag spring pushing the new cartridge up too fast, along with a stiff slide not ejecting the spent brass quite as quickly as it should, or if it had something to do with my grip

6/16/2010 3:47:18 PM

ohh...What kind of ammo were you using?

6/16/2010 3:50:49 PM

6/16/2010 3:51:38 PM

Best gun for home defense?

Shotgun?

6/17/2010 10:54:57 AM

^yeh. 12 gauge, pump, ~18" barrel, with buckshot or similar.

6/17/2010 10:58:34 AM

any recommendations on said 12 gauge?

6/17/2010 11:00:05 AM

cheap is all you need. Remington 870 is a classic

6/17/2010 11:05:46 AM

Remington 870
Mossberg 500 (500a)

I have a mossberg all tacticaled up
You can do without the heatshield and sight, though I do like (recommend) the adjustable pistol grip stock.



[Edited on June 17, 2010 at 11:35 AM. Reason : .]

6/17/2010 11:33:27 AM

I'm actually looking at getting a 20 gauge to complement my 500 in 12 so that if I'm not there, the lady has something she would feel comfortable with


and suggestions on that? I was looking at mossberg and was intrigued by the 500 bantem (sp?) - any opinions on these or other suggestions for similarly priced 20 gauges?

6/17/2010 1:46:17 PM

again...Remington 870

you can even get a youth model if you want one a little smaller

6/17/2010 2:19:17 PM

she should be able to handle the 12 ga just fine if she practices

6/17/2010 4:49:56 PM

the 1100 in 12 or 20 is also not a bad gun

6/17/2010 11:35:37 PM

^^my 500 is pretty stripped down and I must admit- it packs quite a wallup. I don't like shooting more than 16 rounds out of it, so I can see why she doesn't like it at all. And this is all about what she feels comfortable shooting. I figure for home defense, 20 gauge will do just as good. I guess I'll really just have to go out to the pawn shops to start checking out what is available

6/18/2010 7:24:01 AM

Been a while since I checked in with this thread. I was wondering if anyone had a FFL and was willing to do a transfer if I win a gun I'm currently bidding on.

6/18/2010 9:58:32 AM

Speaking of shotguns, just got my MD20 20 round drum for my saiga-12. I'd say that's adequate for home defense. Also first time posting in this thread. Hi.

6/18/2010 1:05:02 PM

^^^
I have a 20 gauge remington 870 youth

its a really great solid gun.....I got it in 6th grade for christmas, and the only thing that my girlfriend complains about it is that its loud, but all shotguns are loud...lol

seriously though....a youth 870 would be an awesome home defense gun for a woman....home defense is really the only reason why i still keep it instead of give it to my sister really... its so compact, and you can shoot it like a pistol no problem cause its a 20 gauge

6/18/2010 7:13:07 PM

Quote :

"Are you looking for one for curiosity's sake? For most other applications, you aren't giving up a whole lot of ground using a .308 vs. a .30-06, essentially an extra 10" drop at 500 yards and ~190 fps or so. If you're looking for a better ballistic platform than .308 might I suggest .300 Win mag, It will have a comparable flight path to a .30-06 and you're more likely to find it in an AR-type weapons system."

Yeah, more for curiosity--I'm not very knowledgeable about guns, especially ARs. My FIL swears by .30-06 for hunting and I thought it would be cool to have an AR-style rifle in .30-06, especially since it seems to be the most common (and therefore, cheap) hunting cartridge (correct me if I'm wrong here).

Quote :

"You're looking for an AR-10, basically an AR-15 but chambered for 308Win/7.62NATO I'm not aware of any AR style rifle chambered in anything longer than the 308. If you want more power than a 308 you could step up to an AR-10 chambered in 300WSM or one of the vast number of other chamberings."

&

Quote :

"You're looking for an AR-10, basically an AR-15 but chambered for 308Win/7.62NATO I'm not aware of any AR style rifle chambered in anything longer than the 308. If you want more power than a 308 you could step up to an AR-10 chambered in 300WSM or one of the vast number of other chamberings."

I finally had a chance to look at the AR-10s, and it looks like .308 Win would be fine for my purposes--Hunting/apocalypse gun

Not sure about ammo prices. How does .308 Win compare to .30-06 in that respect?

I posted this in the used gun thread, but it seems people answer more in here:

could I get a used Glock gen 4 17, 19, or 26 for <$450 (or a new one at a gun show)?. How about the 21/30/36 for <$515?

Reason I'm asking is those are the discounted prices with a GSSF membership, but it seems there are no longer any participating dealers in NC.

Also, if a friend gives you a handgun as a gift (i.e. no exchanging of $), do you still have to buy a pistol purchase permit? What if said friend is from out of state (i.e. I know that purchasing a handgun out-of-state is not permitted unless done through an FFL, but would about receiving one as a gift from a friend visiting from out-of-state?)

[Edited on June 19, 2010 at 2:34 PM. Reason : ;]

6/19/2010 2:33:24 PM

to receive a handgun into your possession and to own it, you must have EITHER a concealed handgun permit, or a pistol purchase permit. If the gun owner lives out of state, then the gun must transfer to you in this state via a dealer. If they move to nc and become a resident, they could then transfer the gun face to face with you, vs involving dealers.

6/20/2010 12:15:43 AM

ok, so a friend of mine who's taken a lot of NRA classes tells me a shotgun isn't best for home defense, too long, someone could grab it from around a corner, and you have to have your body in line with the barrel to shoot it meaning the attacker would see your upper body. also he tells me most home defense shootings are <15ft away and a shotgun spread is near zero at that distance. my thought is a shotgun shot would stop an attacker, i'm not always sure a handgun would unless you have a .357 cal or get a clean head shot

so anyone know of any good handguns for home defense that the wife could shoot as well?

[Edited on June 20, 2010 at 12:54 AM. Reason : ,]

6/20/2010 12:48:02 AM

While your friend's advice isn't incorrect, I think it is a bit 2 dimensional. A shotgun can make an excellent home defense platform if employed properly. How you plan on defending your home against an invader is up to you, but unless you're clearing from room to room a shotgun's length shouldn't come into play. If the plan is to hole up in a bedroom with a shotgun trained on the door and call the police, it'll be just fine.

If you're in a situation where kids are down the hall and you expect that you might have to fight your way down there to them, it becomes marginally less suitable, but not horribly so if employed properly.

No matter what you chose you must have training and a plan which is simple and well rehearsed with the will to execute it violently should the need arise.


As far as handguns, the biggest thing that prevents most people from shooting a gun is their personal fear of them. Barring some degenerative bone or muscular disease (osteoporosis or arthritis) most people can comfortably shoot most common handgun calibers with enough practice.

6/20/2010 9:21:08 AM

^Agreed.

Just look at the professionals. If you're playing defense (holed up in a room, gun pointed at the door), a shotgun is clearly best. If you're playing offense (clearing the house), does the military/swat put down their carbines/shotguns and use their handguns?

I'll add:

It's easier to hit your target with a shotgun - not because it fills the room with lead or some other nonsense, but simply because of its length. In a real defensive situation, using your sights is unlikely. It is easier to point a long gun intuitively than a handgun.

For a one-shot stop, there really is nothing close. One pull of the trigger on a 3-in. Magnum 00 Buck, with 15 pellets, puts twice as many holes and nearly as much total impact energy as a whole magazine worth of 1911 .45 acp. In less than a single second, the bad guy could have thirty .33 caliber holes in him.

That said, I am ready to use both. I carry unless I'm in the shower or asleep, and my handgun stays holstered in my pants by the side of the bed. Even if I'm carrying, I'll still get the shotgun if there is time. Bump in the night? Step into my pants, and grab shotgun. If something happens, I'll still have the sidearm.

** My wife can use our 12 ga. very competently, and has practiced a lot. But regardless of that, it's still intimidating for her. She feels more comfortable with her handgun. And so that is what she will grab/use in such a situation. Many, many women feel this way, even if they have used shotguns before.

So - shotgun, if possible. Otherwise, just have your wife experiment with every handgun she can, and get her the largest capacity/caliber she can confidently and comfortably use. If that's a high-capacity .22lr, then so be it. If she's scared to grab it when it counts, the gun is worthless.

[Edited on June 20, 2010 at 2:35 PM. Reason : k]

6/20/2010 2:23:01 PM

^Dude I am a professional and when I was out doing the deed I didn't even have a pistol. Playing offense is based on the framework of overlapping fields of fire, advantageous use of angles and putting in long hours in the glass house so that everyone is on the same page. Additionally if someone did try to snatch your long gun, you would just barrel punch that motherfucker.

Now for home defense whoever said hole up in a room and wait it out with your gun was correct.

6/20/2010 4:42:47 PM

^You do realize I'm agreeing with you, right?

6/20/2010 5:22:06 PM

Yes, I reread my post and realized I sounded snotty, my apologies.

6/20/2010 6:11:17 PM

and for <15 ft (holed up in the bedroom) the argument of 12 ga. or 20 ga. is pretty invalid....this is coming from a redneck who grew up shooting guns all the time btw...

6/20/2010 9:16:46 PM

Quote :

"to receive a handgun into your possession and to own it, you must have EITHER a concealed handgun permit, or a pistol purchase permit. If the gun owner lives out of state, then the gun must transfer to you in this state via a dealer. If they move to nc and become a resident, they could then transfer the gun face to face with you, vs involving dealers."

Wow, what a crock! You can't even receive a gift from someone without having to pay some tax on it. I don't care about the permit, although that requirement doesn't prevent street thugs from getting a handgun. But paying some guy just so my friend can hand him a gun, which he then hands to me (after writing up some forms, of course), is stupid.

Anyone know a cheap FFL or are there any on here? I'd rather at least pay a fellow alumnus.

Also, noob question: is negotiating on price acceptable at a gun show? What about at a store? I always hear "you can get a great deal at a gun show," but is it because you happen upon something cheap, or because you can negotiate prices down from dealers?

6/21/2010 1:47:55 AM

^Agreed on crock.

Negotiating is acceptable anywhere. I don't think I've ever bought anything from a show or store without trying to negotiate a little bit. It doesn't always work but it's at least worth a try. Just don't be an ass about it and offer tww prices.

6/21/2010 6:47:50 AM

There's plenty of ammo in the Walmart off Glennwood near Crabtree Valley Mall...

I didn't know this, but they don't carry Blazer anymore. But they do have boxes of 50rnd Federal .40 180g FMJ at $13.95. Some Winch. .40 FMJ avail. as well for little more. (100 for $29.xx, 50 for $15.xx)

6/21/2010 3:36:24 PM

The new Federal Champion ammo is the same as CCI Blazer Brass, just new packaging and a different headstamp.
Fed, CCI, and Speer are all owned by ATK (Alliant Techsystems, the people who make gunpowder). They also own a ton of other brand names like Outers, RCBS, Champion, Weaver, Eagle, Blackhawk...

[Edited on June 21, 2010 at 4:46 PM. Reason : And they have the current contract for the Lake City plant.]

6/21/2010 4:45:59 PM

whats a fair price to pay for a Glock 23 with minimal use

6/22/2010 1:08:45 PM

I'd ballpark it at around $450... Maybe able to negotiate around $400 depending on the sellers urgency.

[Edited on June 22, 2010 at 1:43 PM. Reason : .]

6/22/2010 1:41:48 PM

$450 it is

factory 13+1 mag, after market 10+1 single stacked, and a box of 100 JHPs

6/22/2010 2:16:11 PM

I just moved to Fayetteville (Cumberland county), changed my address on my license and all that and I was looking into the process for applying for a pistol purchase permit. The application has a spot for character reference (somebody who has known me for at least 6 months and is a legal resident of Cumberland county, over the age of 21). Since I just moved here, there is nobody that really fits the bill, my first question is regarding the character reference. Is that required? Can I be denied for NOT having a reference? Also, I still have my old license (non-expired) from my hometown (in Alexander county). Alexander county was awesome, no waiting period and all of that. Could I use my old license to get a purchase permit in my old county? How much trouble would I get in if I was busted?

6/23/2010 7:01:58 AM

Unfortunately, purchase permits are issued *entirely* at the sheriff's discretion. The law allows them to deny based on any reason they feel appropriate, which a holdover from the Jim Crow era when they didn't want black folks to have pistols. Big surprise, it's still there.

The simplest thing is to just go talk to the sheriff, explain your situation, and see if he'll waive that requirement since it's his personal preference. The background checks and whatnot will remain the same. The best thing would be to get a concealed carry permit and take the old man out of the process entirely. Once and done with the sheriff on those, and they can't legally deny you that permit unless you fail the background check.

6/23/2010 9:38:32 AM

Thanks for the advice, I'll try and get up with the sheriff in Cumberland county, and if necessary, my home county.

But let me see if I understand this correctly...the sheriff('s office) can deny anybody a pistol purchase permit but can't legally deny anybody a concealed carry permit for anything other than a background check?

6/23/2010 6:42:36 PM

I'm a legal resident of Cumberland, you want them to call me?

6/23/2010 7:21:55 PM

That would be awesome, I'm waiting for my call to the chief detective of my county (close personal friend) to see if there is anyway he can use my old address and get me a permit (or 5), but if that doesn't work out (I'm pretty sure it won't) I would graciously accept your endorsement. From what I can tell, it just looks like a section on the permit that needs to be filled out and signed, I'm not sure if they call to verify or not, or if you would have to be there in person. If you aren't on tdub much, can you PM me your e-mail address or contact info?

6/23/2010 7:57:55 PM

[Edited on June 23, 2010 at 8:00 PM. Reason : not chit chat, whoops]

6/23/2010 7:59:11 PM

PM Sent, I'm in the process of doing my CC permit with them, and a purchase permit as well.

However check this shit: I have to get a copy of a military background check for the sheriff's office. I told the lady I was an NC native, and she didn't care. Talk about descrimination. It's too bad they can spot us, because I certainly wouldn't have brought it up.

Edit: also I haven't seen anywhere for a character reference, what form are you looking at?

[Edited on June 23, 2010 at 10:01 PM. Reason : asdf]

6/23/2010 9:50:23 PM

http://www.ccsonc.org/pdfs/FORM%2067%20GUN%20PERMIT%20APPLICATION.pdf

It could be that its not required, they just have a place for it on the application. I got permission to get purchase permits from my old county but if I can get time to get up to the sheriff's department in Cumberland I'd like to try that first rather than waiting till I'm going to visit my parents

6/24/2010 6:36:14 AM