Quote :

"Define results in in a meaningful sense."

Not sure what you mean?

5/2/2011 2:32:18 PM

There is no way to know precisely what will be the outcome of any action like this. But its better to take control of your destiny, than allow others to take control of it for you.

5/2/2011 2:45:29 PM

Damn, I miss Dubba.

5/2/2011 2:57:44 PM

Quote :

"I can only offer my honest interpretation of the situation. I would imagine that a sizable portion of the world's citizens agree with me. Our nation can't kill or silence all of them. We will have to answer for this crime one day."

Last I heard, the enemy failed to surrender. Did the story change?

5/2/2011 3:02:04 PM

How many people did Stalin kill again? Could Hitler defeating him have prevented those deaths?

That's my point. It's extremely difficult to causally tie two events together. It's also impossible to know whether OBL continued existence would have resulted in even greater damage to humanity than any retaliation. Maybe he was planning to get and use a nuclear weapon and was the only person with the connections and reputation to pull it off. Who knows? Both sides of the argument are nothing more than speculation.

5/2/2011 3:03:15 PM

Quote :

"There is no way to know precisely what will be the outcome of any action like this."

True, but I don't think anyone believed this would be a speedy affair.

Quote :

"How many people did Stalin kill again? Could Hitler defeating him have prevented those deaths? That's my point. It's extremely difficult to causally tie two events together. It's also impossible to know whether OBL continued existence would have resulted in even greater damage to humanity than any retaliation. Maybe he was planning to get and use a nuclear weapon and was the only person with the connections and reputation to pull it off. Who knows? Both sides of the argument are nothing more than speculation."

Also true, but if we weren't interventionists in the first place, we probably wouldn't be in this mess.

[Edited on May 2, 2011 at 3:05 PM. Reason : .]

5/2/2011 3:03:21 PM

Quote :

"nothing more than speculation"

5/2/2011 3:07:23 PM

Quote :

""nothing more than speculation""

No shit. It makes sense, though.

Quote :

"We however, differentiate between the western government and the people of the West. If the people have elected those governments in the latest elections, it is because they have fallen prey to the Western media which portray things contrary to what they really are. And while the slogans raised by those regimes call for humanity, justice, and peace, the behavior of their governments is completely the opposite. It is not enough for their people to show pain when they see our children being killed in Israeli raids launched by American planes, nor does this serve the purpose. What they ought to do is change their governments which attack our countries. The hostility that America continues to express against the Muslim people has given rise to feelings of animosity on the part of Muslims against America and against the West in general. Those feelings of animosity have produced a change in the behavior of some crushed and subdued groups who, instead of fighting the Americans inside the Muslim countries, went on to fight them inside the United States of America itself. [...] The Americans started it and retaliation and punishment should be carried out following the principle of reciprocity, especially when women and children are involved. Through history, American has not been known to differentiate between the military and the civilians or between men and women or adults and children. Those who threw atomic bombs and used the weapons of mass destruction against Nagasaki and Hiroshima were the Americans. Can the bombs differentiate between military and women and infants and children? America has no religion that can deter her from exterminating whole peoples. Your position against Muslims in Palestine is despicable and disgraceful. America has no shame. ... We believe that the worst thieves in the world today and the worst terrorists are the Americans. Nothing could stop you except perhaps retaliation in kind.” Osama bin Laden (1998) Interview with ABC reporter John Mille"

5/2/2011 3:18:05 PM

I think the idea of their being some hidden nuclear bomb in europe in the event of Osama's death is ridiculous. If they had a bomb in Europe, without a doubt, it would have already been used.

I hope I'm right, anyway...

5/2/2011 3:22:52 PM

Quote :

"Also true, but if we weren't interventionists in the first place, we probably wouldn't be in this mess."

Either that or you and I would be sprechen Deutsch or (speaking Russian, fuck you tww) amirite?

[Edited on May 2, 2011 at 3:44 PM. Reason : booooo]

5/2/2011 3:43:44 PM

Quote :

"Foreign leader assassinated without trial during military raid without permission of foreign country in which it occurred. No attempt was made to arrest, only kill, as was ordered directly from the top. Everyone encountered was slaughtered, including women. Murderer."

That we know of, a failure to surrender led to a firefight which the enemy lost. That is not assassination.

As for permission of the country in which it occured?

Quote :

"http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2011/05/02/exp.nr.pakistan.obl.reaction.cnn?hpt=C2"

5/2/2011 4:08:28 PM

Taking out Osama without multilaterally asking for the UN's permission

+1 credibility

5/2/2011 4:17:31 PM

It's more likely they were all slaughtered in their sleep. Or they're still alive and being tortured. Or he's been dead for years and this is all made up.

5/2/2011 4:21:24 PM

Why so?

5/2/2011 4:24:54 PM

Ignore the troll.

5/2/2011 4:27:06 PM

5/2/2011 4:29:03 PM

Quote :

"It's more likely they were all slaughtered in their sleep."

Im not sure most people could sleep through 2 helicopters landing 100 feet from your house. One crashing.

5/2/2011 6:32:21 PM

http://i.imgur.com/tjRP1.jpg

What a photo. Has a burn bag next to Obama.

[Edited on May 4, 2011 at 12:48 AM. Reason : jesus christ beu. find a resized version -qfred]

5/2/2011 7:45:06 PM

Quote :

"Pledge to kill Osama bin Laden earns Promise Kept "

http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2011/may/02/Obama-kill-bin-laden-campaign-promise-kept/

5/2/2011 7:45:19 PM

5/2/2011 7:49:31 PM

^^^
So what's in the blurred photo?

5/2/2011 9:28:05 PM

If told you I'd have to kill you, then give you a burial at sea in accordance to Islamic law.

5/2/2011 9:39:39 PM

maaaaaannnn

5/2/2011 9:50:15 PM

i was guessing a satellite image of the compound, but thats obviously just speculation and guessing

5/2/2011 9:54:19 PM

that is an awesome picture.

There is congrats for just about everyone, including president Bush. You also have to give it to Obama for taking such a big risk going into another country without telling them. (granted the troops were more at risk)

Also not bombing the compound was a wise and correct call. Kudos to the president, our armed forces, and our intelligence community.

5/2/2011 10:00:49 PM

As a military man who has been on the staff of a two-star Admiral, I find it funny that poor ol' General Webb is the guy operating the computer.

5/2/2011 10:03:43 PM

the secret document looks like they needed blur out hillary's p0rn

[Edited on May 2, 2011 at 10:11 PM. Reason : llllllllllllll]

5/2/2011 10:11:21 PM

Not "crediting" Obama with killing bin Laden is the same as not "crediting" bin Laden for 9/11.

5/2/2011 10:36:49 PM

There are so many things that pryderi and I disagree on, save what he just said.

It takes a leader to lead.

5/2/2011 10:56:18 PM

As far as I'm concerned the man's foreign policy cred has shot up dramatically in the last month or so. It'll take a hell of a Republican to get me to vote against the man in 2012.

5/3/2011 12:53:40 AM

and america responds to bin laden's death the best way it knows how.

through ironic references to cable television shows.


(link if it don't werk: http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5144/5679220048_edf9afafe4.jpg)

5/3/2011 8:18:35 AM

5/3/2011 6:37:25 PM

News channels are ramping up analysis in their typical fashion: over-examining irrelevant details and inserting significance into arbitrary circumstances of the operation. The more they do this, the more artificial doubt they create.

They're going to wring this story for all the content they possibly can, regardless of whether it merits reporting. Obama needs to hurry up and release the death photos, before networks get into full scrutiny mode.

5/3/2011 7:24:54 PM

murderer of women and children

5/4/2011 12:04:24 AM

Quote :

"As far as I'm concerned the man's foreign policy cred has shot up dramatically in the last month or so. It'll take a hell of a Republican to get me to vote against the man in 2012. "

Other than going HAM through Pakistan like he owns the place, what other things have boosted his cred in your eyes?

5/4/2011 1:32:27 AM

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."

George W. Bush

[Edited on May 4, 2011 at 2:14 AM. Reason : BLAST FROM THE PAST!]

[Edited on May 4, 2011 at 2:27 AM. Reason : Also, if anybody could source that for me...it would be awesome!]

5/4/2011 2:12:19 AM

"We don't need to spike the football" -Obama

that is pretty funny

5/4/2011 9:17:00 PM

^^quote taken out of context....

5/4/2011 9:59:54 PM

Actually, I sourced it last night; actually, somebody else did...I just found their post about it from a long time ago. I don't even think it's a quote.

It appears to be paraphrased. Here's some context:

Quote :

"Terror is bigger than one person. And he's just -- he's a person who's now been marginalized. His network, his host government has been destroyed. He's the ultimate parasite who found weakness, exploited it, and met his match. He is -- as I mentioned in my speech, I do mention the fact that this is a fellow who is willing to commit youngsters to their death and he, himself, tries to hide -- if, in fact, he's hiding at all. So I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you. I'm more worried about making sure that our soldiers are well-supplied; that the strategy is clear; that the coalition is strong; that when we find enemy bunched up like we did in Shahikot Mountains, that the military has all the support it needs to go in and do the job, which they did."

Quote :

"Well, as I say, we haven't heard much from him. And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don't know where he is. I -- I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him."

http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html

I hope you'll respond and explain what your point was when you said it was taken out of context. Cause you were pretty darn uppity about it with the rolly eyes and everything.

[Edited on May 4, 2011 at 10:35 PM. Reason : ]

5/4/2011 10:32:01 PM

Over the past two days, that quote has been used to imply that Bush just didn't care about finding bin Laden, when in actuality, he was trying to express that he wasn't obsessing over bin Laden.

Yes, bin Laden was the target. But the goal was/is bigger and more complex than just him--it was/is about protecting America from an ideology. An ideology spearheaded by one man, but followed by many.

Basically, Bush was saying: "terrorism is a big, nasty, tangled-up spider web and bin Laden is the web spinner. Right now, the web is so big that we need to deal with the web before we get to bin Laden, because if we just focus on bin Laden, then the we won't be able to regulate the web as it gets bigger."

5/4/2011 11:17:02 PM

Quote :

"Over the past two days, that quote has been used to imply that Bush just didn't care about finding bin Laden, when in actuality, he was trying to express that he wasn't obsessing over bin Laden. Yes, bin Laden was the target. But the goal was/is bigger and more complex than just him--it was/is about protecting America from an ideology. An ideology spearheaded by one man, but followed by many. "

I think the point is that a lot of conservatives (especially on facebook it seems) are adamant that Obama shouldn't really get any credit, when he did probably a little more towards getting bin laden than Bush.

Ironically, Bush was fundamentally right. Bin Laden was a powerful, important figurehead in the eyes of the "west" and his death will i think help energize and re-focus the anti-terrorism efforts, but he wasn't the brunt of where the fight should be. I feel like we won't be so hung up, as a country, on avenging 9/11 anymore and might be more concerned about preventing terrorists in the first place.

5/5/2011 12:55:56 AM

^^Not that it matters, but I promise that I recalled that "quote" on my own. I was just sitting around pondering the Bush/Obama stuff, and I remembered reading it here on the Wolf Web! Of course, as I was searching for a source for it, I stumbled on tons of current blogs and twitter posts with it, but none of them seemed to reflect my sentiments.

Killing Osama bin Laden, to me, is about justice. It's about holding him accountable for the thousands of people he participated in murdering. I'm not going to pretend that it was some huge priority for me, but I imagine for the people personally affected by 9/11, it mattered.

Of course, that's not what it was about for George W. Bush. Very quickly, bin Laden and the events of 9/11 were used to justify a massive (and selectively lucrative) war on terror. It morphed from "DEAD OR ALIVE!" to "YELLOWCAKE!" and finally "I'm truly not that concerned about him." And why would he be concerned? The notion of bin Laden had already served its purpose: people were frightened.

Also, you're just wrong in your interpretation of that press conference exchange. After all that "dead or alive" crap, Bush stopped talking about bin Laden. When asked about this, he explained that bin Laden was marginalized, had no real power or country anymore, and that he truly wasn't concerned about him. Bush even seems to imply that bin Laden may be dead when he says, "if, in fact, he's hiding at all," but Bush apparently didn't actually care enough to do more than speculate and say he's not concerned.

Just for fun, allow me to spin your spin of Bush:

Quote :

"Basically, Bush was saying: "terrorism is a big, nasty, tangled-up spider web and bin Laden is the web spinner now a marginalized figure. Right now, the web is so big that and we need to deal with the web before we get to bin Laden focus on it in order to keep people scared, because if we just focus on bin Laden, then the we won't be able to regulate the web as it gets bigger more people will wonder why we are jeopardizing the lives of American soldiers with no justification and still haven't caught him yet.""

[Edited on May 5, 2011 at 6:38 AM. Reason : I'm not being totally clear, but do y'all see what I mean?]

5/5/2011 6:19:57 AM

A majority of our current deficit, not Obama's fault?




http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3490&utm_source=twitter

5/11/2011 12:56:44 PM

man, this "blame the other guy" routine is getting a bit thin.

5/11/2011 3:24:03 PM

yeah, fuzzy math!

5/11/2011 3:48:14 PM

^^its not a routine if its true

^???

5/11/2011 4:00:45 PM

Don't worry. In 10 years there will be something for future pundits to blame on Obama.

5/12/2011 10:28:11 AM

Quote :

"man, this "blame the other guy" routine is getting a bit thin. "

Yep. So the Bush tax cuts are the main reason? If only we could elect democrats to control all branches of govt and have a super majority to fix things. That way republicans would be powerless to stop them from doing "the right thing".

Im sure the deficit and spending would NOT go up. No way.

5/12/2011 11:32:03 AM

http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/267060/president-obama-completely-wrong-reason-high-unemployment

5/12/2011 2:16:19 PM

that looks like a completely impartial source

5/12/2011 2:40:44 PM