^i think you're right.. i remember the fist as well, and thats what i thought it was. im just saying i saw fells tugging on the top of his jersey a few times right before play was stopped and he came out.

either way. he came back in pretty quick. unfortunately he cooled off a bit and no one else could score.


i agree that the layups killed us. tracy and mccauley couldn't hit a damn shot inside the paint to save their lives. mccauley missed atleast 4 or 5 of those little layup moves. and smith probably missed just as many put back and little spin hooks.... if we make half of those shots its at least 8 to 10 more points..

but thats just how it goes sometimes.

1/31/2009 6:30:42 PM

kind of expect smith to miss those. first big game, his moves here hurried, and he doesn't have ups, anyway. smith also got destroyed on the defensive side. mccauley was just a complete failure until he knocked that fag out. you want to expect something better from your senior, especially when he was much more active 2 years ago.


[Edited on January 31, 2009 at 6:33 PM. Reason : .]

1/31/2009 6:32:43 PM

i thought the subs were good, for the most part

courtney was out for like a minute of game time, tops. no big thing.

1/31/2009 6:40:02 PM

^^agreed, McCauley and Costner had everything to do with why we won two years ago, tonight McCauley unfortunately had a lot to do with why we lost

1/31/2009 7:15:53 PM

Quote :

"and simonn erios responds to every single one of your points with clear thought out arguments to which you respond with your same old they were somewhat good recruits in highschool bullshit. NONE of them even played significant minutes as freshmen. Hell Mccauley wouldn't even come off the bench unless Brackman and Simmons were in foul trouble. So yeah it will keep going round and round until you actually come up with an intelligent response. Ohboyee I thought we established you were either a dumbass or a troll wtf are you still doing?"

No offense dude, but of the regulars who post in this thread, you probably know the least amount of basketball.

2/2/2009 1:46:31 AM

^ The ultimate argument for someone who has NO argument.

2/2/2009 7:54:32 AM

^The ultimate argument for someone who has NO argument, who has NO argument.

2/2/2009 10:17:22 AM

still credible

2/2/2009 10:56:42 AM

I agree, I think adder is the most stupid person by far that has ever posted in this thread.

He goes around guaranteeing the most mind boggling shit and then proceeds to call anyone who disagrees with him as being either stupid or shitty or fucking idiot. What is funny is I think he really believes in all the stupid shit that he says.

[Edited on February 2, 2009 at 11:01 AM. Reason : .]

2/2/2009 10:57:31 AM

i disagree, somewhat.

2/2/2009 11:04:48 AM

Quote :

"^ The ultimate argument for someone who has NO argument."

You think Horner should play over Tracy Smith because Horner is Costner's "backup".

2/2/2009 11:27:02 AM

i disagree with that.

2/2/2009 12:03:03 PM

Quote :

"kind of expect smith to miss those. first big game, his moves here hurried, and he doesn't have ups, anyway"

i dont! you never should miss that many shots under the basket, period. he doesnt have ups????did you miss his monster jam right under the basketball from one of his offensive rebounds.

if he can get up like that flat footed...how can you say he has no ups? im pissed he didnt go up strong like that the entire game...to me, thats why he missed so many shots under the basket by not going up strong and pussyfooting around the backboard.

he and BM really need to step their inside game up for our last 10 or so games

2/2/2009 12:21:49 PM

Quote :

"^ there is a lot of stupid on the posts of the Lowe supporters as well, you must admit. "

Agreed.

Quote :

"Once again, you keep taking what I say and turning it into something else. Many of our players were highly sought after coming out of high school, so either the coaching staff or the players are responsible for the suckage."

-packboozie

Yes many of our players were "highly sought after coming out of high school." Here's the problem - "sought after" does not necessarily imply these guys were/are good enough to LEAD a team. You're assuming that just b/c Costner (for example) got an offer from Florida (also for example) that he'd be a starter, a star, and a team leader? Costner would get playing time at Florida, but no way is he the team captain or the headliner player week after week. That's one thing that typically separates good teams from GREAT teams - overall depth. A couple of very talented players certainly helps a lot, but without a true leader a team is prone to be very inconsistent and have trouble dealing with pressure, particularly late in a game.

So take a look at State this year and ask yourself: Who are the known commodities? Who can you count on with the game on the line? Who is going to hit that big shot to start a rally, win a game, etc? State simply doesn't have this.

What State does have is a lot of very unheralded players that see considerable playing time. Horner, Ferguson, Degand, and Gonzalez are all not ACC calibur players. Decent role players perhaps, but not quality players. Thomas, Mays, and Williams show promise, but need time to develop and gain experience. That leaves Fells, Costner, McCauley, and Smith. All have their own individual strengths, and some (Fells, Costner) can potentially take over a game. But none of them constitute a "known commodity." Far from it. Each one of them (to varying degrees) have been known to all but disappear at times in games.

More importantly, none have shown an ability to step up and be a LEADER. That's what State needs but doesn't have right now.

Quote :

"we suck and the blame ultimately comes down on the coach.. but these guys are overly optimistic and I can respect that. But ultimately, it falls on the coach."

-OhBoyeee

I agree, but Lowe deserves the blame for the deficits in RECRUITING, not in the way he's coaching our current players. I'm simply pointing out that State's team really isn't that good this year, hence Lowe really doesn't deserve to be thrown under the bus for his "bad coaching."

Quote :

"haha dude it's almost every one of your posts... it's not even that you write a shit load of stuff, it's that you number and make lists and underline and bold like you've planned out the post for hours. I must admit, I read your first one but now it's just annoying to have to scroll through them"

-aimorris

Then you obviously don't have any desire to put any real thought into this discussion. Most f you would rather post for the first thing that pops into your head, which is usually mindless bullshit that's taken out of context and which often is a feeble attempt to "pwn" some other poster you don't like. I on the other hand decided I'd like to participate in the discussion, but instead put some real thought into my contributions. I decided to thoughtfully explain myself and my takes on the issue(s) at hand. And oddly enough, when you have to fully explain yourself, it often take a LOT of words to do it.

SO I'm very sorry to have to make you guys actually THINK about what you're saying. My bad.

Quote :

"No offense dude, but of the regulars who post in this thread, you probably know the least amount of basketball."

-packboozie, about -adder

No offense dude, but how the fuck can you possibly say that?. Seriously why is it you feel the need to categorically dismiss his opinion based on, what, a handful of posts on TWW? I'm so sorry we aren't all as fucking brilliant as you are. Please, encourge those worthy to weigh in on the subject (such as yourself obviously) to share with us this bounty of basketball knowledge to which the rest of us mere mortals are unfortunately not blessed with.

Yeah, I've said what I've needed to say... and wasted far too many hours on this thread...

I'm out.

2/2/2009 1:18:12 PM

Quote :

"You think Horner should play over Tracy Smith because Horner is Costner's "backup"."

Well, it depends. If Lowe is using the right starting lineup of

PG (take your pick)
Fells
Costner
Smith
McCauley

then Horner should absolutely be the guy to give Costner a blow. Putting Horner at the 4 is defensive suicide if that is where Costner is starting...

Quote :

"Costner would get playing time at Florida, but no way is he the team captain or the headliner player week after week. That's one thing that typically separates good teams from GREAT teams - overall depth."

I think this is a point of contention that is what is making this thread go. On one side you have the guys who refuse to believe that the failure to develop these players isn't solely on the players themselves and that they suck, don't care, were never any good, etc, etc... On the other side you have guys who think because they were highly recruited, their lack of true development over their 4 years has everything to do with the two coaches.

I lean more towards the failure of the two coaching staffs to develop these players and build an offense tailored to their strengths. That said, the truth is undoubtedly in the middle. If you give a Billy Donovan, Jim Calhoun or Coach K Fells and Costner I have NO DOUBT they are better players in their 4th year than they are under Sendek and/or Lowe... but that doesn't mean they'd be All-ACC studs either...

-----------

and for what it's worth, I enjoy Erios' posts. They are well thought out and not just the dumb name calling... even though I don't always agree..

[Edited on February 2, 2009 at 1:29 PM. Reason : x]

2/2/2009 1:23:03 PM

Quote :

"and for what it's worth, I enjoy Erios' posts. They are well thought out and not just the dumb name calling... even though I don't always agree.."

I agree

2/2/2009 1:37:21 PM

Quote :

"BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH Yeah, I've said what I've needed to say... and wasted far too many hours on this thread... I'm out."

BYE

2/2/2009 1:53:18 PM

Yeah, screw a bunch of intelligent debate. Screw words. Screw logic.

2/2/2009 3:14:22 PM

Quote :

"and simonn erios responds to every single one of your points with clear thought out arguments to which you respond with your same old they were somewhat good recruits in highschool bullshit. NONE of them even played significant minutes as freshmen. Hell Mccauley wouldn't even come off the bench unless Brackman and Simmons were in foul trouble. So yeah it will keep going round and round until you actually come up with an intelligent response."

i think you have me confused w/ someone else, guy.

2/2/2009 3:22:34 PM

HIRE BOBBY KNIGHT RIGHT NOW!!!

2/2/2009 3:23:02 PM

Quote :

"HIRE BOBBY KNIGHT RIGHT NOW!!!"

frankly some of our players could use a good choking or a slap to the face

2/2/2009 4:20:49 PM

SimonnAce

2/2/2009 4:22:09 PM

Quote :

"HIRE BOBBY KNIGHT RIGHT NOW!!!"

2/2/2009 4:58:25 PM

sidney lowe's going NOWHERE.

2/2/2009 5:02:00 PM

that statement is very ambiguous, sir.

[Edited on February 2, 2009 at 5:19 PM. Reason : that's better.]

2/2/2009 5:17:01 PM

sorry.

sidney lowe is not leaving nc state.

2/2/2009 5:19:23 PM

Simonn I was responding to this

Quote :

"he makes the same three points over and over. just like the point i just made, this whole thread is one big circle. "

All I was asking for was new arguments. Your "we have awesome talent" argument has been thoroughly dissected and dismissed with actual facts to which your only response is... "They were decent in highschool". Fells and Mccauley didn't even play significant minutes as freshmen and a quarter of Mccauley's shots where threes (how many threes does Mccauley take in lowe's system???).
Judging from the personal attacks I can see that you have no new arguments.

Now Boozie: Yeah Horner and Smith play the same position simply because they are both over 6'7". You are a real basketball expert. You can bitch about Horner coming off the bench before Smith (although I guess cause Smith is starting I guess you can't bitch) if they are playing the same FUCKING POSITION. Horner is not getting minutes that would be going to Smith he is getting minutes from Costner who is erratic and in foul trouble. Hell last year Horner was subbing for Grant.

and again ohboyee i am giving you the benefit of the doubt in the hopes that you are a decent troll.

Like I have said before lock this dumbass thread until someone can come up with something new.

2/2/2009 7:05:33 PM

Quote :

"All I was asking for was new arguments. Your "we have awesome talent" argument has been thoroughly dissected and dismissed with actual facts to which your only response is... "They were decent in highschool". Fells and Mccauley didn't even play significant minutes as freshmen and a quarter of Mccauley's shots where threes (how many threes does Mccauley take in lowe's system???). Judging from the personal attacks I can see that you have no new arguments."

i say again, i think you have me confused w/ someone else, guy.

2/2/2009 7:07:06 PM

Alright then I think I misunderstood what your ^^ meant go back and look at the post and you will get it. I hadn't been following your posts further back in the circle of insanity.
Anyway the point still stands NOTHING NEW is getting posted by the anti Lowe crowd. When asked for something new the only thing you get is personal attacks which must really mean they have NO NEW ARGUMENTS.
Oh and NyM410 Coach K has done a lot of nothing with some pretty good recruits (shavlick and mcroberts come to mind immediately).

[Edited on February 2, 2009 at 7:24 PM. Reason : As for new argument]

2/2/2009 7:20:35 PM

Quote :

"Anyway the point still stands NOTHING NEW is getting posted by the anti Lowe crowd. When asked for something new the only thing you get is personal attacks which must really mean they have NO NEW ARGUMENTS."

for the record that's the third or fourth time you've posted that.

2/2/2009 7:25:30 PM

Correct. I am hoping that if that statement is the last post MAYBE there will be some new discussion.

2/2/2009 7:39:06 PM

Quote :

"Quote : "and simonn erios responds to every single one of your points with clear thought out arguments to which you respond with your same old they were somewhat good recruits in highschool bullshit. NONE of them even played significant minutes as freshmen. Hell Mccauley wouldn't even come off the bench unless Brackman and Simmons were in foul trouble. So yeah it will keep going round and round until you actually come up with an intelligent response." i think you have me confused w/ someone else, guy."

Quote :

"SimonnAce"

If that's about me, I've never argued with erios or really argued much at all in this thread, I have been quick to point out that it's been looping for the past 20 pgs though, so

Quote :

"i think you have me confused w/ someone else, guy."

2/2/2009 8:14:20 PM

nah, simonnace is from when people jokingly said that DiamondAce was my alias.

2/2/2009 8:19:23 PM

oh yeah my fault, I almost forgot about that guy, seeing as he's suspenders and hasn't posted since june and was exclusive to chit chat pretty much

in that case carry on

[Edited on February 2, 2009 at 9:31 PM. Reason : too big]

2/2/2009 9:30:24 PM

Quote :

"Here is the correct order of events: Lowe lands at least one of those top recruits (wall/favors/cousins) or we get better. If not, Lowe is on the hot seat and Fowler must be fired. Honestly, if we get Wall and don't make the NCAAT, Lowe should also be on the hot seat. You can't waste NBA-level talent like that. One superstar guard is good enough to make a tournament team. The next year after that, we have to make a tourney. If not, Lowe gets the boot. It is imperative that Fowler gets fired 6 months-1year before we fire Lowe. The redneck should not be allowed to make another hiring decision. We need the new AD in place ready to perform a search. (New AD has to be someone with an eye for talent, knowledge of the game, and strong connections with people who also know the game. This is how we found valvano, this is how most great coaches are discovered. It's rare for a school to be able to buy a "name" coach.)"

2/2/2009 11:11:37 PM

Quote :

"Horner is not getting minutes that would be going to Smith he is getting minutes from Costner who is erratic and in foul trouble."

Seriously?

2/2/2009 11:13:30 PM

^ are you really debating that horner and smith play the same position? Or are you questioning the FACT that Costner has been playing a little erratically and getting into some early foul trouble and this has limited his minutes especially in the first half.

2/3/2009 8:52:39 AM

ahahaha

FACT.

I miss earl

2/3/2009 3:54:14 PM

Quote :

""Here is the correct order of events: Lowe lands at least one of those top recruits (wall/favors/cousins) or we get better. If not, Lowe is on the hot seat and Fowler must be fired. Honestly, if we get Wall and don't make the NCAAT, Lowe should also be on the hot seat. You can't waste NBA-level talent like that. One superstar guard is good enough to make a tournament team. The next year after that, we have to make a tourney. If not, Lowe gets the boot. It is imperative that Fowler gets fired 6 months-1year before we fire Lowe. The redneck should not be allowed to make another hiring decision. We need the new AD in place ready to perform a search. (New AD has to be someone with an eye for talent, knowledge of the game, and strong connections with people who also know the game. This is how we found valvano, this is how most great coaches are discovered. It's rare for a school to be able to buy a "name" coach.)""

Who posted this? I know it wasn't in this thread. Makes too much sense

2/3/2009 6:10:27 PM

^Pretty sure it was skokiaan.

I don't agree with some of what he says, but that is spot on.

2/3/2009 8:53:39 PM

Optimistic jinx predictions:

VT - W (lowe anti-vt mojo)
WF - L
GT - W
NC - L
UVA - W
WF - L
MD - W
BC - W
Miami - W (guys step up with something on the line??)

8-8 and we're cooking with gas.

[Edited on February 3, 2009 at 9:09 PM. Reason : .]

2/3/2009 9:08:45 PM

good to see a nice win tonight even if it was central...good for their confidence in the middle of conference play

2/3/2009 9:50:20 PM

RPI went down 12 spots

i hate that shit

2/3/2009 9:58:00 PM

terribly terribly scheduled game.

not that rpi means shit for us this season anyway, but just terrible.

2/3/2009 10:01:29 PM

i disagree

its kind of like a bye week

2/3/2009 10:21:18 PM

^agreed. the team had too much practice time in december and early january.

2/3/2009 11:12:13 PM

Uhh this was a terrible game, how could it not be?

If nothing else have a week off between games.

If we were in contention for a NCAA bid, this would hurt our chances.

2/4/2009 12:01:35 AM

early in the year you can get pumped up to kill nccu, and fans can get pumped up to watch you kill nccu.

right now, the team wasn't into it and the rbc center had less people in it than there were for last year's red/white game.

nothing good about playing this game in the middle of the acc schedule.

2/4/2009 12:07:35 AM

Sounds like scheduling NCCU was Sid's idea.

Quote :

"Last year, after a couple of week-long layoffs, the NC State men’s basketball team returned to action with a sluggish demeanor head coach Sidney Lowe did not like. So he made sure this year’s schedule didn’t have any long layoffs in January and February, which is why the Wolfpack played a mid-week game against North Carolina Central Tuesday night at the RBC Center, between Saturday ACC contests."

2/4/2009 10:32:39 AM

Quote :

"nothing good about playing this game in the middle of the acc schedule."

i disagree 100%

we are not going to the NCAAT this year unless we win the ACCT so RPI is moot.

our team needs as much practice as they can get esp. in real game situations to prepare us

for a tough road game at VT. there is nothing horrible about this game this year.

2/4/2009 10:49:46 AM