Quote :

"All of the above totals up to $925. Anything I'm forgetting? Anything I should consider adding/deleting/changing? Anything I can do better on price-wise? As far as optics go, I'm generally a believer in spending money and getting good stuff...however, a light AR carbine isn't going to be drilling .5 MOA patterns at 800m targets, and my intent on this one is to build a fairly good quality, all-around tactical rifle at a reasonable price. With that in mind, does anyone have any experience with this scope/red-dot combo or anything similar? "

Why bother with all of that when complete optics-ready carbines with chrome lined barrels are widely available for $600-$750?

As for optics......the ACOG, EoTech w/magnifier, Leupold Mk4 1-3x CQT, Aimpoint Comp M2, and Elcan will all serve you well, it's just a matter of personal preference and price, as all of those range from $350 to about $800.

8/18/2010 2:09:33 PM

Quote :

"Flat-top/picatinny complete upper, M4 feed ramps, forward assist. $95"

You don't need M4 feed ramps. Save yourself some money.

Quote :

"never mind on that last question...<16 is the cutoff for SBR. I'll go up a size on the barrel."

The flash hider on that 14.5" is most likely pinned in place (thus making the barrel 16" as defined by the ATF) and should be perfectly legal to own.
If you just like the idea of a short barrel that's cool, but I don't really see the benefit in the 14.5" though. You lose velocity and it won't feel much more compact.

Quote :

"Why bother with all of that when complete optics-ready carbines with chrome lined barrels are widely available for $600-$750?"

Good point.
See page 85:

Quote :

"wOOt...picked up my new S&W M&P15 Optics Ready AR-15 from CDNN for $599 the other day. Topped it with a eabco.com closeout...a Hawke Optics 3-9x40 with the ballistic drop compensator. Also, picked up a .22lr conversion kit for it, so when I am done shooting 5.56, I can switch to .22LR."

That $250 you save would mean you can get an ACOG on the M&P15 for the same price as that Del-Ton build with an EOTech...but then you don't have that JP trigger on the S&W.

[Edited on August 18, 2010 at 4:09 PM. Reason : ]

8/18/2010 4:07:28 PM

That JP trigger is niiiiice though. I've got one in my 24" setup.

[Edited on August 18, 2010 at 4:53 PM. Reason : However, I agree it it may not be worth the coin in this situation.]

8/18/2010 4:51:29 PM

Quote :

"You don't need M4 feed ramps. Save yourself some money."

True...they were just included in the upper I chose.

Quote :

"Why bother with all of that when complete optics-ready carbines with chrome lined barrels are widely available for $600-$750?"

Hmm...of course, if you add in the cost of the good trigger and the 4-rail FF tube (and subtract $75 or so by going up to the 16" barrel--I didn't realize there was a cost difference at first), the price is just about exactly the same.

I'll bet that I can do a little better (price-wise) than the rifle I cooked up on Del-Ton's website if I shop around and find a screaming deal like this on one with the specs that I want.

8/18/2010 5:23:00 PM

Speaking of screaming deals, Shooters Supply in Fayetteville has stripped lowers from RRA for $119. Bought that and a Stag Arms parts kit for 60 bucks and the owner was nice enough to assemble it for free. 180 dollars for an assembled lower, minus extension tube and spring for the stock.

[Edited on August 18, 2010 at 7:49 PM. Reason : rra]

8/18/2010 7:48:47 PM

that's the everyday going rate at Del-Ton

8/18/2010 8:12:59 PM

Shipping and transfer fees. Also, for your build I'd recommend reading up on Kyle Lamb and his VTAC uppers or the hand guards at least.

8/18/2010 8:45:57 PM

Anyone have an opinion on a $700-$800 1911? I am looking at the Kimber Pro-Carry .45 right now in black for around $760 or so. Fuquay Gun also has the same gun in 9mm for the same price. I almost want the 9mm b/c I already shoot 9mm and have a stockpile of it. That being said, I have always wanted a .45.

8/18/2010 8:49:32 PM

Looking for Walther P88, P88 Compact, P5 Compact, or Sig Sauer P210 (Original).

8/18/2010 11:14:25 PM

^^ Get the .45ACP. It is an excellent cartridge in the 1911, and there are better 9mm platforms to be had if you want one of those. I have shot 45 ACP in several different guns, and by far the best experiences were with 5" barrel 1911's. The ergos and weight distribution are just very well suited to the cartridge.

8/19/2010 10:51:28 AM

anyone subscribe to any firearm magazines?

I get guns & ammo which I like. thinking about shooting times as well. worth it? any others?

8/19/2010 1:14:53 PM

Anyone know much about a Kimber ULE II? There were only 227 made, its black frame with stainless on black slide. 3" barrel, so its apparently the same size as a Ultra Carry. Any problems with buying a low production model?

8/19/2010 7:35:54 PM

so all these gun forums talk about trying before you buy. how exactly do you go about doing that?

8/21/2010 12:32:38 AM

Borrow a friend's
Go shooting with a friend who has one
Rent one from the range

[Edited on August 21, 2010 at 12:34 AM. Reason : .]

8/21/2010 12:33:52 AM

first two are out. what kind of selection do ranges usually have? does it vary?

basically i'm trying to shoot several types of sigs and glocks to see what i like best

8/21/2010 12:40:33 AM

you shouldn't have any problem at all finding a SIG and Glock to try at the range.

plenty of people on here have them; someone will probably meet you at a range to shoot.

8/21/2010 1:06:17 AM

yeah what duke said, the feel of a sig and glock will be nearly the same for the different models of each brand, I prefer how the sigs feel in my hand but I don't have a large hand that would accommodate the glock grip. but any range with rentals will have both brands and while you may not get the caliber you want to buy (unless its 9mm, those models are almost guaranteed to be rentable), the grip and feel of the gun will be very similar, only the grip length or amount of recoil would be different.

8/21/2010 1:38:44 AM

PEW PEW PEW

8/21/2010 2:04:43 AM

^^ well, to an extent. A SIG P226 and P232 aren't going to feel the same, but a P226/228/229 will, more or less.

I'm a big SIG fan. Glocks feel great in my hand, but I don't care for their stupid striker-fire trigger.

8/21/2010 2:44:01 AM

8/21/2010 12:23:18 PM

picked up a remington 870 12 ga today from Fuquay

im happy with it...solid gun for the upcoming season.

8/21/2010 5:15:46 PM

anyone interested in a pelican 1720 case?

http://pelican.com/cases_detail.php?Case=1720

black, wheeled, with foam

ive never stored anything in this and it has spent its entire life on the shelf at work or in storage

well?

8/21/2010 8:56:51 PM

^is it fitted already/is the foam adjustable? I need to fit a tacticool shotgun and 10/22 in there.

8/21/2010 10:54:31 PM

^^how much you want for it?

8/21/2010 11:21:31 PM

So I'm interested in getting started hunting. I've never been, but it sounds like a lot of fun...with one catch. At this point, I'm really only interested in actually doing it if I can break even (or come close) on meat my first season.

That is: class + license + whatever gear + assorted $ < value of meat.

Is that doable? I've been assuming deer gives the best bang for the buck. The closest things I have to deer hunting gear are a 20-in. HD pump shotgun that is easily within a dinner plate at 60 yards with slugs, and an AR-15. I lean toward the 12ga. Buying another gun is not an option.

Ideas? I'd really like to do it, but the fun isn't worth the dollars at this point. It needs to be fun + meat.

[Edited on August 22, 2010 at 1:14 AM. Reason : s]

8/22/2010 1:13:05 AM

Nope. You need to buy camo (~$100), ammo$(20), deer stand ($50-200), deer calls ($10), deer scents($5), License ($35-40)etc.

You'd need to shoot like 5 deer this season to "break even" if that's what you're ultimately after.

Are you going to dress your own deer after you shoot them? If not, that's $$$ you've gotta pay someone else.

[Edited on August 22, 2010 at 1:22 AM. Reason : .]

8/22/2010 1:21:15 AM

You can probably get away with not taking the class, depending on where you go to buy the license. I'm sure it's not expensive anyway, though. Google says that, at least in Garner, it's free.

a license with big game tags is prob $35-50 or so (haven't bought one in a few years, so I'm guessing)

You don't really need a bunch of gear for deer hunting. Cost should be pretty minimal. A climbing tree stand would be the most expensive thing you might consider, and you can get one on Craigslist for $50 or less.

Altogether, if you already have a gun and ammunition, you could probably stay under $100 (and after the initial buy-in, you just have to pay for license/tags and ammunition in subsequent years).


^ you don't really have to have any shit like camo or scents or calls. 5 deer? Holy shit, how much meat do you think he'd otherwise be buying in a year?



[Edited on August 22, 2010 at 1:27 AM. Reason : ]

[Edited on August 22, 2010 at 1:28 AM. Reason : ]

8/22/2010 1:25:51 AM

I know he doesnt NEED the other small stuff, but he'll likely not be very successful if he doesnt use some sort of cover scent. And if he doesnt have camo, he better have damn good cover.

And you HAVE to take the hunter education class before you can buy a license in NC.

I said 5 deer to offset the $200 or so in associated costs. He wanted to break even, remember?

8/22/2010 1:31:16 AM

Ground beef is pushing $1.50 or more a pound today, so I figure that's the minimum I should value deer meat.

At $200 entry to get going properly (if it's that high), that's 140 lbs of meat. I don't know what we eat in a year, but that would probably cover it.

I've been reading that you get 50-70 lbs as a final meat tally on NC whitetail. Is that about right?

If I could not find a friend to do the dressing and packaging for free (I think I can), what would that run?

[Edited on August 22, 2010 at 1:39 AM. Reason : a]

8/22/2010 1:37:39 AM

If you're hunting gamelands, I'm going to say that you'll be lucky to walk away with 50 pounds of meat from a kill.

I could be wayyy off base, but I'm just playing it conservatively. You could be a lucky bastard like my buddy who hardly ever hunts and kills a trophy buck about every damn time he goes out.

As far as processing fees, you'll likely spend between $30-60 per deer at a butcher to have it skinned and cleaned/packaged. You can always find people on craigslist willing to do it cheaper, but it's still a legitimate cost.

[Edited on August 22, 2010 at 1:51 AM. Reason : .]

8/22/2010 1:46:56 AM

I would probably be hunting on private property - mine or a friend's.

Do you say that because of the average size of deer is smaller on a gameland? Do you have to give a cut or are there rules for harvesting that limit it?

8/22/2010 1:48:45 AM

most gamelands I've hunted seemed to have been overhunted. Mature deer are few and far between in my experience.

8/22/2010 1:54:37 AM

That would put it more toward getting 3 deer for monetary break-even. I'm not even sure if I have the time/schedule to get that, even if I were lucky enough to have them walk by.

This may wait till next year. Thanks for the input. Kinda sucks, though.

8/22/2010 2:01:58 AM

Yeah, I totally guessed at 5 deer, but it's definitely going to take some work and skill to get 3 deer your first season out... Especially with a shotgun.

I hope you do though! I'm not trying to be a hater here.

8/22/2010 2:05:04 AM

never gonna happen. your best bet is to just find a friend who will take you hunting with him.

8/22/2010 2:26:14 AM

Quote :

"And you HAVE to take the hunter education class before you can buy a license in NC. "

i never did.

8/22/2010 9:24:28 AM

When did you get yours?
It became a requirement for anyone who didnt already have a license about 7-8 years ago.

BTW, you don't need camo or a stand.
I'd stick with the 12ga too. Just go into the woods quietly, find a high traffic spot (trails, openings in the woods, stream corridors, etc), sit next to a tree, be quiet, and wait. and don't fall asleep. You don't see a deer if you dont have your eyes open.

[Edited on August 22, 2010 at 2:30 PM. Reason : ]

8/22/2010 2:28:29 PM

they're supposed to check for your hunter's safety card if it's your first license

that doesn't mean they always do

laws are more like suggestions

and deer stand sleeping is the best sleeping ever

[Edited on August 22, 2010 at 2:36 PM. Reason : adfs]

8/22/2010 2:35:56 PM

Hopefully while wearing a harness, right?

8/22/2010 2:56:46 PM

If you've got the land and a gun, go for it. Our grandfathers didnt have expensive gore-tex, scent free camo and they managed to hunt just fine. You'll probably develop better hunting skills that way anyways. Just get some dark clothes, look for deer signs, play the wind, and be perfectly still.

The class is free if you can still find an opening, but like NRR said, it's a "suggestion". You can usually get by with just telling the Wal Mart person you had a license in another state (which waives the class requirement and they dont have the resources to verify this). Make sure you pick up a regulations book and learn the rules though, the laws vary greatly by county and region so know what you can and cant do. Wildlife Resource Officers dont play around with the rules.

Make sure you know what to do after the kill though. The last thing you want to do is kill a deer and not use the meat. Either know where the closest butcher is or learn how to clean one yourself (youtube, google, etc). If you're doing it yourself for the first time, it wouldnt be a bad idea to have someone who could at least meet up with you to give you a hand.

8/22/2010 2:59:26 PM

Quote :

"Ground beef is pushing $1.50 or more a pound today, so I figure that's the minimum I should value deer meat."

Wow, where the hell can you get it that cheap?

Cheapest I've seen recently was at Sam's for $2.88/lb, 90/10 ratio. Usually $3.50+ at HT. Any suggestions on where I can get it cheaper?

Preferably I'd like to get my own meat grinder (or the attachment for our mixer) but that's a bit down the road.

8/22/2010 3:21:48 PM

Ordered and installed a Powder River Precision trigger kit on my XD today. I highly recommend for anyone with an XD to buy the kit, installation is fairly painless, just some sanding and fitting of the over-travel stop is required. Trigger pull now is like a 1911.

8/22/2010 5:18:53 PM

Got a link to a reliable vendor?

8/22/2010 7:11:07 PM

http://www.powderriverprecision.com/ They shipped fast, and I watched a youtube video for the installation.

8/22/2010 7:36:30 PM

For the pelican questions:

-foam is solid, with no cutouts or prescored patterns
-$170
-Ill be heading to the triad next weekend (28th) for a few days and would be happy to bring this with me and save everyone on the hassle of shipping

lets make this magic happen

8/22/2010 8:10:51 PM

^^^^^ We wait for the sale of the year on something, and then buy a room full of it. Yeah, $2.50+ is normal, but I'm confident that at some point in the next few months, there will be a closeout, clearance, coupon or some other mega-deal that we'll use to buy boat-loads of it. It takes a lot of patience, and then pulling the trigger when the time is right. Which sounds familiar, given the question at hand

Thanks for the input, all.

8/22/2010 8:19:02 PM

mmm

clearance burger

8/22/2010 8:25:10 PM

lookin a clay thrower

anyone know of one for sale?

8/22/2010 9:06:46 PM

Quote :

"Trigger pull now is like a 1911."

I don't buy it. Not like a good 1911 trigger, anyway.

If it's true, I might buy myself a Glock or XD.

8/22/2010 11:37:21 PM

Quote :

"For the pelican questions: -foam is solid, with no cutouts or prescored patterns -$170 -Ill be heading to the triad next weekend (28th) for a few days and would be happy to bring this with me and save everyone on the hassle of shipping lets make this magic happen"

thanks. I'm going to do some measurements and see if it will work for me.

8/22/2010 11:42:29 PM