Quote :

" How would you propose the government tackle it?"

by passing the Green New Deal and taxing billionaires at a higher rate

[Edited on August 9, 2021 at 8:24 PM. Reason : to start]

8/9/2021 8:23:32 PM

Quote :

"How would you propose the government tackle it?"

They won't, we need a new one. We're going to see massive social unrest and catastrophe after catastrophe before anything changes. Your kids are inheriting a fucked up world.

[Edited on August 10, 2021 at 1:54 PM. Reason : .]

8/10/2021 1:54:22 PM

^ indeed

CBS News: Major U.N. climate change report warns of "extreme" and "unprecedented" impacts.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/climate-change-impact-warning-report-united-nations-intergovernmental-panel-ipcc-code-red-humanity/

8/10/2021 2:33:58 PM

Quote :

"We're going to see massive social unrest and catastrophe after catastrophe before anything changes"

That's what has happened since the dawn of human civilization. But please carry on blaming it on the weather this time instead of human nature.

8/18/2021 9:31:23 AM

Amazing to watch you losers switch over to nihilism since your denialist arguments have gone out the window

[Edited on August 18, 2021 at 11:40 AM. Reason : .]

8/18/2021 11:38:28 AM

bump

8/30/2021 11:36:33 AM

bump for alarmism

9/21/2021 10:41:13 AM

do you get off on being an asshole who is completely wrong in the face of overwhelming consensus?

9/21/2021 12:47:20 PM

I must have missed the alarmism.

^^^^ It really does seem like it went from global warming isn't happening to global warming is happening so much, there's nothing we can do about it.

9/21/2021 1:27:17 PM

Quote :

"do you get off on being an asshole who is completely wrong in the face of overwhelming consensus?"

Yes, yes they do. Anything to own the libs.

9/21/2021 4:10:57 PM

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2022/03/10/1083916026/why-baghdad-will-be-one-of-the-cities-hardest-hit-by-global-warming

Quote :

"A report from the European Union Institute of Security Studies projects that the number of days when temperatures in Baghdad hit 120 degrees will go from roughly 14 per year to more than 40 over the next two decades. The study forecasts that the Iraqi capital, which is already seeing longer heat waves each summer and higher peak temperatures, will be one of the places hardest hit by global warming. Baghdad set a new record high of 125.2 degrees on July 28, 2020. The next day it cooled down to 124."

3/10/2022 3:27:34 PM

Now that's HOT!

3/10/2022 3:43:08 PM

Even if this is just an anomaly, it doesn't seem like one that we would want to see.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/20/heatwaves-at-both-of-earth-poles-alarm-climate-scientists

Quote :

"Temperatures in Antarctica reached record levels at the weekend, an astonishing 40C above normal in places. At the same time, weather stations near the north pole also showed signs of melting, with some temperatures 30C above normal, hitting levels normally attained far later in the year. At this time of year, the Antarctic should be rapidly cooling after its summer, and the Arctic only slowly emerging from its winter, as days lengthen. For both poles to show such heating at once is unprecedented."

3/21/2022 2:00:34 PM

https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/28/weather/kentucky-flash-flooding/index.html

7/28/2022 6:36:16 PM

Predicting weather pattern changes due to climate change is voodoo, but also, I am partial to the predictions that significant parts of the southeast/Midwest are going to get wetter and probably suffer from catastrophic flooding too. We are going to have to totally re-think flood risk, hopefully within the next 10 years. I still think flooding is more manageable than drought and wildfires most people are predicting for the west/southwest.

7/28/2022 8:09:38 PM

Basically, don't build on flood plains and stop paying to rebuild properties destroyed by flooding without relocation.

7/28/2022 9:03:37 PM

So should New Orleans just relocate? Genuine question.

7/28/2022 9:05:28 PM

They have the engineering chops to stay dry (mostly). But if they have 2 more Katrinas, I would say it's time for New New Orleans.

7/28/2022 9:48:54 PM

and the people who can’t afford to move?

7/28/2022 10:03:39 PM

Would be cheaper to use insurance and / or federal disaster assistance to move them one time than to continue stupidly paying to rebuild on doomed land. Floodplains should be for farming, not for houses.

7/28/2022 10:16:46 PM

So behind California's proposed war against combustion engines, are they figuring that the costs for electric cars are going to get to a point to where normal people can afford them?

Normal people also won't be able to afford the maintenance on them when the battery needs to be replaced. I realize that's kind of a hackneyed conservative talking point, but I just don't see people being able to afford 10k-20k battery replacements. Does this go back to costs coming down? Say costs come down to 5k for a replacement - that's still detrimental to a low to middle class budget. Sure, transmissions can cost that much, but you're not guaranteed a transmission replacement with gas-powered car. You're almost guaranteed to replace the battery.

I've seen the following argument over and over again in FB posts about this topic:

"That's fine, I'll trade it in before the battery needs replacing."

That's all well and good, until the dealership or the 3rd party purchaser buys it and realizes the battery is shot. Someone still has to eat the costs of a new battery. Almost makes a 65k car disposable doesn't it?

I'm not against electric vehicles. I actually think it would be kind of nice to have one. But unless things change drastically in the next 13 years, I just don't see a mandate like that working.

Also, the other idea that conservatives bounce around a lot is that while the electric cars aren't putting out emissions directly, they're indirectly charged by fossil-fuel powered generation. In CA's case, you can't cite coal as a source because they only have one coal-fired plant left, but it seems like, at least as of a few years ago, over half of their energy came from natural gas generation. I'd like to see the numbers - maybe they're out there, of how much CO2 a combustion engine puts out per mile vs how much CO2 is generated from one mile of electric, powered by natural gas generated energy.

But my big thing right now is the pay-wall to get into an electric vehicle. 7500 tax credits still won't bring the price down enough for me to invest in a car I can use 8-10 years before having to spend a lot more.

On the flipside however, the $80 or so I have to spend on an oil change every 7k miles could be put aside to pay for the impending battery, along with any other normal maintenance that comes along with an ICE. I just don't know what kinds of maintenances are needed for EV's.

Oh and I tend to keep vehicles for the long-haul. I still have an '08 Jeep I bought in '10.



[Edited on September 12, 2022 at 10:04 AM. Reason : old car]

9/12/2022 10:02:03 AM

I’m just curious to know why you mentioned oil changes as opposed to money saved due to that whole no gas thing

9/12/2022 11:47:15 AM

^^Have you ever priced the Gigantor fuel-inefficient ICE trucks and SUVs the people who complain most about electric vehicles like to buy?

9/12/2022 1:38:40 PM

Quote :

"I'd like to see the numbers - maybe they're out there, of how much CO2 a combustion engine puts out per mile vs how much CO2 is generated from one mile of electric, powered by natural gas generated energy."

Using numbers from government sources from obvious Google searches:

Power generation US typical: 0.3856 kg CO2 / kWh
Electric car: 0.25 kWh/mile ==> 0.096 kg CO2/mile

Typical US gas car: 8.887 kg CO2 / gallon
@ 25 mpg 0.35548 kg / mile
@ 30 mpg 0.29623 kg / mile

Electric cars are roughly 3 times greener and roughly 4 times cheaper to fuel than gas cars.

9/12/2022 1:48:06 PM

Quote :

"I’m just curious to know why you mentioned oil changes as opposed to money saved due to that whole no gas thing"

Because I haven't yet crunched the numbers of the increased energy cost vs gas. I know there is a vast disparity in the costs, so yes, those funds can be set aside as well.

Only, will everyone be financially disciplined enough to set that money aside?

Thanks Darkone.


[Edited on September 12, 2022 at 2:38 PM. Reason : sda]

9/12/2022 2:36:15 PM

In that vein, an interesting thread here about ev hummer

Quote :

"This is @GM's new Hummer EV. The car is terrible for both road safety and the environment. The Biden administration needs to regulate it, not praise it. A 🧵 � explaining why "

https://twitter.com/DavidZipper/status/1568578856876969984

9/12/2022 2:55:19 PM

Quote :

" I'm not against electric vehicles. I actually think it would be kind of nice to have one. But unless things change drastically in the next 13 years, I just don't see a mandate like that working."

For some perspective, look 13 years into the past, around 2009.

The first Nissan Leafs and Chevy Volts weren’t delivered until 2010.
Elon Musk just stepped into his Tesla CEO role, they were in the process of building their California plant, the only car they were actually manufacturing was the 1st gen roadster and Tesla surviving the recession was an open question.

So I’m with you on questioning if the cars and infrastructure will be where they need to be to achieve this his directive, but ALOT is set to develop on these technologies in the next 13 years.

9/12/2022 4:09:00 PM

I think the only way this works is if in the next few years, we find a viable way to recycle the elements out of the batteries. I've read that right now, the energy needed to recycle the batteries isn't worth the effort.

9/12/2022 4:24:05 PM

The lithium could become a problem. America needs a serious cultural and infrastructure overhaul to make public transportation better and more palatable, have cities that are more walkable/bikable along with disincentivizing. Evs are not a silver bullet and I have doubts that they are sustainable for full replacement in the near term.

Disincentivizing IC vehicles is still a step in the right direction though.

9/12/2022 6:20:41 PM

Need more nuclear.

9/12/2022 6:45:07 PM

Need to go snatch a nickel asteroid from space.

9/12/2022 7:28:20 PM

I've never understood why we're so afraid of nuclear.

9/12/2022 7:57:49 PM

Because Chernobyl, Fukushima, and 3 Mile Island were all incidents that happened just off the top of my head.

It would be great if nuclear accidents never happened but that have before and can definitely happen again.

9/12/2022 8:26:21 PM

Go on, name a few more.

9/12/2022 8:33:16 PM

Do I really need to? Our infrastructure is already pretty shitty and the last thing we need is to have people go out of their way to target nuclear power plants as part of a terrorist attack (domestic, international, doesn't matter).

In particular, I don't think it's wise to put nuclear plants anywhere along the West Coast because places like Alaska, California, Washington, Hawaii, and Oregon are susceptible to earthquakes (let alone volcanic eruptions), but if you want to put them on the East Coast, have at it since the nuclear fallout from a disaster probably won't be my problem--it'll be yours.

[Edited on September 12, 2022 at 10:06 PM. Reason : I have extended family members from Eastern Europe that've had cancer/health problems from Chernobyl]

9/12/2022 10:02:38 PM

How do they know chernobyl caused it

Google says there are estimated to have been about 5000 additional cancer cases in Eastern Europe from chernobyl

Also gonna be really tough on Cali if they actually close this
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_Canyon_Power_Plant

[Edited on September 12, 2022 at 11:35 PM. Reason : E]

9/12/2022 11:09:33 PM

Were not just afraid of nuclear…the business of building a new nuke is horrible and just doesn’t make sense for the MBA folks. A new nuke is at least a ten to fifteen year return on investment because for the first 8 years all you’re doing is construction and outlaying costs and that just isn’t gonna cut it when you can run a new solar or wind project that pays back in 2-3 years. So much can change during the construction itself that the risk is just too high. There are new small modular reactors (smrs) that are intended to cut the payback period down by reducing capex costs and construction time but those haven’t hit it big time yet.

9/12/2022 11:25:13 PM

Quote :

"How do they know chernobyl caused it Google says there are estimated to have been about 5000 additional cancer cases in Eastern Europe from chernobyl "

Not everything is knowable/provable, but spouse's family is mostly from Vitebsk, Minsk, and Kyiv and it's oddly coincidental that a lot of them got cancer/sick after Chernobyl (which the USSR absolutely tried to cover up) and/or have lingering health issues today (the ones that are still alive, anyway).

I'm not 100% anti-nuclear power, per se, but pretending that it's completely safe and that nuclear waste is super easy to dispose of is pretty shortsighted imo.

TBF, all I did was answer a simple question: why are people so afraid of nuclear power? If you want nuclear power in your local community, by all means push for it. I think better alternatives exist and would rather explore them, but fears of the unknown isn't really something pro-nuclear energy proponents are willing to entertain anyway. rjrumfel seems way more afraid of a hypothetical $10k bill for a lithium battery, while I'm more afraid of a hypothetical nuclear meltdown that could potentially kill tens or hundreds of thousands of innocent people. Perhaps we're both just being dramatic.

Quote :

"Also gonna be really tough on Cali if they actually close this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_Canyon_Power_Plant"

SLO is great, but hardly LA/SD/SF/Sac-- not going to ruin the power grid because some coastal/semi-rural county shuts down a nuclear generator. 40 million people live in the state, so ~3M at best isn't as big of a deal as you seem to be insinuating



[Edited on September 13, 2022 at 1:04 AM. Reason : Call me a nuclear power NIMBY- guilty as charged]

9/13/2022 12:37:01 AM

Quote :

"I'm more afraid of a hypothetical nuclear meltdown that could potentially kill tens or hundreds of thousands of innocent people."

Unless they're on the East Coast

9/13/2022 3:07:01 AM

I want to know how much power generation we could get from solar if we converted every available square mile in this country to solar, vs a couple of nuclear plants?

Going back to my original question - I'm just afraid that forcing a technology upon everybody when the infrastructure isn't ready will be a bad idea. Hopefully CA will look at where the infra is in a few years and re-evaluate their timeline.

Something I didn't bring up originally - how many people are going to be willing to wait 15 minutes at a charging station? Will this just become something common where we just take a break from our already busy day and play on our phones for 15 minutes? Assuming Tesla and their supercharger stations.

9/13/2022 9:44:33 AM

Solar (and Wind) also have a slew of problems related to materials they're made of. Lithium strip mines are pretty ugly.

The future definitely requires mixed sources of energy and nuclear needs to be one of them. NIMBYs are absolutely a problem.

9/13/2022 9:55:31 AM

Quote :

"Something I didn't bring up originally - how many people are going to be willing to wait 15 minutes at a charging station? Will this just become something common where we just take a break from our already busy day and play on our phones for 15 minutes? Assuming Tesla and their supercharger stations."

this was a lame conservative talking point 5+ years ago, and it’s pretty incredible to see it in earnest in 2022

9/13/2022 12:08:40 PM

I spend at least 15 mins waiting in line at Costco to get gas because it's usually .50-$1 per gallon cheaper, so not terrible worried about having to do the same when we get an EV (hopefully next year).

9/13/2022 12:19:04 PM

Trigger warning, Fox affiliate link ahead:

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/electric-vehicles-are-exploding-from-water-damage-after-hurricane-ian

I would think that EV manufacturers thought flooding through? How come these batteries are sealed to prevent water leaking in?

10/7/2022 4:19:44 PM

Quote :

"It is unclear how many EVs were impacted or destroyed by the storm."

Quote :

"[The EV push] is really kind of a con job," Myron Ebell, the director of the Competitive Enterprise Institute's Center for Energy and Environment, told FOX Business in July"

have a feeling that the article is just a tad bit biased

just a hunch, though

10/7/2022 4:37:51 PM

Oh I don't deny one bit that the article is biased.

But these 20k batteries are definitely corroding.

10/7/2022 4:39:21 PM

they could’ve asked an EV rep about the allegations, and not take the Florida official who follows Mollie Hemingway and other right wing accounts on twitter at their word

[Edited on October 7, 2022 at 5:07 PM. Reason : .]

10/7/2022 4:43:15 PM

The point here isn't to argue comments from "officials" in the article.

This is a pretty serious issue as a large portion of the population lives in flood-prone areas.

I suspect this will get resolved pretty quickly though for newer EV's. Older EV's though - one helluva recall.

10/7/2022 4:47:30 PM

they provided no hard data to back up their claims

10/7/2022 4:48:42 PM

Internal combustion engine vehicles have no issues when submerged in salt water.

It's not officially advertised, but they're actually submarines.

10/7/2022 7:01:55 PM