Jacksonville's backfield is better RIGHT NOW.

[Edited on December 10, 2006 at 11:22 PM. Reason : then again I didn't grow up in New York, so I can't be a real sports fan]

12/10/2006 11:22:11 PM

*sigh* what are you stupid or dumb? stupid? dumb?

I never said I disliked Bush. The sole reason I created this thread was to prove a prediction I made a very long time ago. I basically summarized what he is doing right now, before he even got drafted. Everyone said I was "crazy" and "wrong".

Now that Im correct, Im a "bush hater". My hatred for him "takes words out of context". Then it's this "well, look at all the other things he's doing". I never argued against all the other things this kid can do. I just said he wasn't going to be able to run the ball and that is it.

[Edited on December 10, 2006 at 11:27 PM. Reason : .]

12/10/2006 11:22:48 PM

tomlinson + double leg amputee>>>>>bush + mccallister

[Edited on December 10, 2006 at 11:26 PM. Reason : and taylor + jones-drew ]

12/10/2006 11:25:32 PM

^^^ Yeah, MJ-D and FT are playing out of this world right now, but I think I can get out there and put up 100 against the Colts run D. But yeah, they are probably playing better right now though I was including Brees in that and he is playing far better than Gerrard. I'm not sure what the thing about being NY has to do with it though...

^^ Good point! Anyone who has a differing opinion must be stupid! Let me know when you grow up enough to handle someone who has a different though than you and I'll give you another response..

[Edited on December 10, 2006 at 11:27 PM. Reason : x]

12/10/2006 11:26:25 PM

You were wrong, man. Get over yourself. Noone disagrees with me when I say he can't run the ball. All you people do is say "look at all the other things he does".

12/10/2006 11:30:10 PM

ooohhhhh, so you were saying "bush won't be a great between the tackles runner..." not "bush won't be a great running back". 'cause there's a subtle difference between those two statements. i'll agree with the first statement for sure, especially based on the year thus far. the second statement is still up for debate, especially after the last couple of games.


[Edited on December 10, 2006 at 11:31 PM. Reason : .]

12/10/2006 11:30:21 PM

^^ and that is exactly what I said. I am NOT arguing that. I'm disagreeing with you that he has been some kind of major disappointment though... Eh, whatever.. I got to run...

12/10/2006 11:31:57 PM

^^So, what makes a great RB is a fucking philosophical question?

In that case, he's a running back with mass limitations

He can't block
He can't run
All he can do is catch screens and flat passes

With being compared to Sayers, Sanders, Lt, paid 50 + million dollars, I'd say its a huge disappointment. The reason why this is "under the radar" is because the saints are winning right now. B/c brees is a baller, deuce is a baller.

Bush is awesome. Just not what everyone thought he'd be. I can understand why this is a hard pill to swallow for some of you.

[Edited on December 10, 2006 at 11:42 PM. Reason : .]

12/10/2006 11:32:16 PM

Karney is definitely roiding. He just looks like the flip out and put someone in a coma type

12/10/2006 11:42:39 PM

You dont have to bash bush in a horrible attempt to justify the first round mistake the texans made just because that mistake orginated at your college.

12/10/2006 11:49:23 PM

^ Drafting Bush would have also been a mistake.

Young FTW.

12/10/2006 11:58:43 PM

^^^^ actually, it's not that hard to figure out. bush plays the running back position. the last few weeks he's been making some great plays. some good plays he makes have originated as a "rush", some as a "pass". either way, he's playing the position of running back, and he's been making some big plays. therefore, at least as of late, he's done well playing the position of running back for an NFL team. thank you

and by the way, since his infamous negative yardage game, he's been averaging a nice 4.5 ypc. so maybe he's starting to learn how to be productive on rushing plays as well. if you've watched him all season, you'd realize that after that game he starting being more assertive as a runner and doesn't dance around quite as much as he did earlier this season.

[Edited on December 11, 2006 at 12:27 AM. Reason : .]

12/11/2006 12:21:28 AM

Sorry buddy, but your practical weak claims won't win this argument for you. Everyone knows it man.

You're making yourself look silly by saying stuff like 'he's playing the position of running backs, and making great plays = he's a great running back".

Quote :

"and by the way, since his infamous negative yardage game, he's been averaging a nice 4.5 ypc. so maybe he's starting to learn how to be productive on rushing plays as well."

Try again. When you don't get many rushing attempts, like he did tonight 6 or so. And manage to rack up like 37 yards, it makes your ypc "look good". I watched him run, and he still does the same thing (stop at the middle, take off the outside) he's been doing all season. He will remain a successful recieving back. Not a good running back.

[Edited on December 11, 2006 at 12:45 AM. Reason : .]

12/11/2006 12:36:38 AM

my logic is this: while bush may not be a traditional nfl running back, he's still an nfl running back by definition. and as of late, he's been playing well. this leads me to the following conclusion: lately bush has been a good nfl running back.

notice i said that "lately" he's been playing well. never have i made the statement that "he's a great running back". of course he's not, he's got a long way to go. but he's showing glimpses, and i wouldn't be surprised if he ends up being great within the next few years.

i don't think this logic makes me look silly, but it's ok if you think it does.

[Edited on December 11, 2006 at 12:47 AM. Reason : .]

12/11/2006 12:44:31 AM

Well then, what is your definition of a "traditional running back"?

I think that's your attempt to white-wash his whole situation. Like all his other worshipers are doing.

[Edited on December 11, 2006 at 12:48 AM. Reason : .]

12/11/2006 12:46:57 AM

I would like to say , m. faulk sucked at running back while we are stating the incorrect

12/11/2006 12:51:41 AM

a better way to state it is that "his talents aren't being utilized in the traditional manner for running backs".

and i'm not sure his recent performances need any white-washing, dude has been playing well lately. but hey, i guess i'm now a "reggie bush worshiper" simply because i'm disagreeing with you, so i'm gonna go say my nightly prayers to him now. PRAISE BUSH, GO SAINTS.

[Edited on December 11, 2006 at 12:57 AM. Reason : .]

12/11/2006 12:53:29 AM

No let me fix this for you

Quote :

""his talents aren't being utilized aren't working in the traditional manner for running backs"."

I never said he hasn't been playing well lately. I said over and over and over that he hasn't been running the ball well.



[Edited on December 11, 2006 at 12:59 AM. Reason : my case is closed until bush proves me wrong]

12/11/2006 12:56:08 AM

are you angry because he didn't sign an autograph for your little brother? did you also lock up your pregnant girlfriend in the trunk of your car?

12/11/2006 1:09:08 AM

^ this place is infested by aliases. They're even running out of good names!

fosheezie?!?!

12/11/2006 1:12:26 AM

Maurice Jones-Drew

Now thats a pro running back

he eclipses Bush

hands down

[Edited on December 11, 2006 at 1:21 AM. Reason : .]

12/11/2006 1:20:50 AM

^^ no alias sweetheart. I just don't post much. Though this site is nice, I'm not willing to pay the 5 dollars.


And yes, I regret naming this. There is a difference between freshman me and 9to5 college graduate me.

12/11/2006 12:25:03 PM

Quote :

"I think that's your attempt to white-wash his whole situation. Like all his other worshipers are doing."

You're doing it again. You hate the guy, I assume because you feel your boy Vince got snubbed for the Heisman by him, so you're projecting every thing people say about him in a positive light as 'worshipping him.' I've been consistent throughout this thread. He hasn't done as well as I thought taking handoffs out of the backfield and running between the tackles. I've never once argued otherwise. However, he has NOT been a huge disappointment like you keep saying (even though you temper it by saying he 'is awesome' which is ridiculously inconsistent on your part). In fact he is playing ridiculously well right now. The second you started calling him a big disappointment is where I started to disagree with you. Notice that..

Sure, he isn't worth the huge payday as of yet. Tons of people aren't, across all sports. Mario Williams probably hasn't been worth the $$$ either, though I'm not completely familiar with his salary numbers. He's a rookie and as I've said all along, will be inconsistent. To top it off but Bush AND Mario have had injuries to their ankles/feet though slowed their progress. Bush is healthy now while Mario is struggling with a foot injury.

I prefer not to judge a player based on ESPN hype as a lot of people are doing. I didn't have unrealistic expectations for him and I'm not holding him to the unrealistic expectations SOME people had. Shit if I listened to ESPN hype I'd be wondering why JJ Redick isn't leading the NBA in scoring and hitting 65% from 3.

[Edited on December 11, 2006 at 12:48 PM. Reason : x]

12/11/2006 12:47:30 PM

Quote :

"In fact he is playing ridiculously well right now."

Good post NyM.

12/11/2006 1:02:17 PM

5x^ Yeah you can't really call him an alias since he registered three years before you did.

[Edited on December 11, 2006 at 1:34 PM. Reason : 5]

12/11/2006 1:34:24 PM

he's having his best half as a pure rusher so far in the pros. If he could do this every week, along with his moves in space, he'll be a bonafide star. 5 carries for 45 yards...

God damn, Bush is making the Giants defense look like schoolgirls.

[Edited on December 24, 2006 at 2:27 PM. Reason : 70 yards on this drive alone..]

12/24/2006 2:20:33 PM

jk

[Edited on December 24, 2006 at 2:29 PM. Reason : fhds]

12/24/2006 2:28:59 PM

well, Jones-Drew has been doing it all year. No real big news there. Plus this thread isn't about him.

I do like how Bush owned the Giants on this drive and then they hand it off twice to Deuce at 1st and goal from the 1 and he gets stuffed twice in a row.. I need either Colston or Bush to score for fantasy!

V ah, gotcha.. colston scored the td!

[Edited on December 24, 2006 at 2:34 PM. Reason : and mario had his best half so far as well..]

12/24/2006 2:30:11 PM

ya i read your post wrong, for some reason i thought it said the best half in the pros today or something

12/24/2006 2:32:36 PM

Bush is a tremendous running back and football player all around

great pick by the Saints

12/24/2006 3:27:32 PM

Looks like he turned out to be pretty good, to me.

12/24/2006 3:28:20 PM

^ Can't yet be determined after his second good game out of fifteen played

Not that the rest of the games were bad ones, but he's really only had two good ones (NY and SF)

12/29/2006 1:39:34 PM

D. McAllister 163 total yds 2Tds
R. Bush 74 total yds 1Td



never gonna be as good as the Deuce

1/14/2007 2:14:18 AM

Quote :

"D. McAllister 163 total yds 2Tds R. Bush 74 total yds 1TD never gonna be as good as the Deuce"

2006 Regular Season(not including punt/return yards)

D McAllister 1255 total yards 10 TDs

R. Bush 1307 total yards 8 TDs

you're right, he probably won't

1/14/2007 2:33:41 AM

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8471777574648940909&q=reggie+bush

Bush getting lit up.

1/14/2007 8:04:12 AM

^^ He definitely won't ever be as good of a RB as deuce.

1/14/2007 9:15:58 AM

stop bumping this stupid piece of shits thread (bush, not the creator)

1/14/2007 10:49:44 AM

^^^^ On the strength of being top 10 in the NFL in receptions. He sure as fuck didn't do it because he ran well.

[Edited on January 14, 2007 at 10:54 PM. Reason :  ]

1/14/2007 10:53:58 PM

It seems as though Bush is not a good runner partly because hes not getting that many carries. McAllister got 89 more carries than Bush did, so obviously he's going to have better stats. Also, Bush is used as a decoy just as often as he is actually given the ball, and that plays a huge part in the Saints' offense. It really doesn't matter if he's a good "between the tackles" runner, as long as he gets the job done.

Plus, the guys a rookie, cut him some slack. I haven't watched many of the Saints' games, but I have seen this guy make moves comparable to LT. Give him a few years to get some coaching and experience and this guy will be lighting up the scoreboard.

1/15/2007 12:11:34 AM

go Colts

1/15/2007 12:16:05 AM

Yeah, he's a rookie, but he's not fucking Yinka Dare. He's played football damn near all his life and I'm sure countless numbers of people told him how the game speed changes from the college level to the pros. Why do people still bother fixing their fingers to type that shit? If this time a year ago, I told you this ROOKIE NAMED REGINALD ALFRED BUSH II would struggle to 3.6 yards per carry, I'd be fucking vilified. The only reason I'm not going full throttle on the guy is because he happens to play for my favorite team, but that doesn't mean I won't call a spade a spade.

He's not getting that many carries, so that makes him suck? Did you just say that? Really? Marion Barber got fewer carries than Julius Jones. Laurence Maroney deferred to Corey Dillon, MJD to Fred Taylor..... all of these backups enjoyed prosperous seasons RUNNING THE FOOTBALL IN THEIR LIMITED OPPORTUNITIES. REGGIE BUSH DID NOT DO A GOOD JOB OVERALL OF RUNNING THE FOOTBALL. 89 carries over 16 games is roughly 5 1/2 carries per game, which is what was EXPECTED anyway (ie, for Deuce to shoulder the huge load, with Bush to get 10-15 carries. He got 9.7 carries per game to Deuce's 15 per game, which I wouldn't AGGREGATELY call a huge load but that's a different topic entirely). Deuce averaged 4.3 yards per carry to Bush's 3.6 (that which jumped a full yard after his -5 game, compared to Deuce's... 4.3 at the same point in time). And how you say "it doesn't matter if hes a good between the tackles runner" just made me laugh. I can't think of a single successful NFL running back that wasn't good at running between the tackles. YES IT DOES MATTER BECAUSE BEING ABLE TO GO INSIDE OR OUTSIDE, BY DEFINITION, MAKES ONE A COMPLETE RUNNING BACK.

I'm willing to concede on the decoy point, but it got to the point where people were saying that even when it wasn't true just because it had been at some point prior. If Bush is on the bench, does he become a decoy when defenders are trying to see how many knots he puts in his laces or what flavor Gatorade he's drinking?

Quote :

"I haven't watched many of the Saints' games"

No shit you haven't. For every LT-like move, there's about 3 or 4 of those same moves that got his ass buried for big losses. Those tend to NOT make the highlights. Watch more Saints games.

1/15/2007 2:41:16 AM

^ i like your style.

1/15/2007 1:24:34 PM

Quote :

"And how you say "it doesn't matter if hes a good between the tackles runner" just made me laugh. I can't think of a single successful NFL running back that wasn't good at running between the tackles"

To be fair ALL runners will get knocked back and stopped a fair share of times going up the middle. Bush never got enough touches on plays designed between the tackles to get a really great idea of how he'll do if he is ever the primary back. I'm gonna say he'll obviously never be as good a downhill runner as Deuce even but I do think he'll be a far more dangerous all around weapon.

I have watched a lot of Saints games this year and noticed a very clear progression from Bush. He started out the season trying to dance around on EVERY paly and it obviously doesn't work. He matured a bit and by the end of the year he became a very real weapon.

Personally, he is one of my favorite non-Jets players in the league, right up there with Tomlinson. There are only a handful of guys who make me just shake my head at some of the things they are able to do; Tomlinson, Barry Sanders, and Reggie Bush to name a few. And yes I am basing a lot of that on his college days when he made amazing defensive teams like Virginia Tech and Oklahoma look absolutely stupid. If he can ever be consistent at this level -- and I think he can be as he continues to mature -- he'll be as dangerous as anyone..

And again, I think you are being very hard on him Sleik. Saying a rookie who had 1300 total offensive yards in his first year sucked is a bit harsh. Yeah, he didn't live up to the ESPN hype but no one should have expected him to. I know damn sure I don't base how I feel a player should do on his hype and I don't on his contract either (contracts are also about other things -- marketability being a huge one). I think he had a pretty decent rookie campaign and showed enough progression to the point where I have no reason to believe he won't become a very, very good NFL player..

---------

I play with the Saints in Madden '07 and Bush is a star Come on now.. who would you rather run the ball with? Cedric Houston or Reggie Bush in a video game?

[Edited on January 15, 2007 at 1:38 PM. Reason : x]

1/15/2007 1:30:27 PM

What makes me mad is that ESPN acts like he DID live up to the hype and then some.

Almost half of the analysts on ESPN said he should be rookie of the year, when in my estimation he was only the 3rd or 4th best rookie RUNNING BACK this year.

Thankfully the voters weren't that stupid and he got less votes than the Chargers rookie offensive tackle, Marcus McNeil.

1/15/2007 2:34:51 PM

Quote :

"he didn't live up to the ESPN hype but no one should have expected him to."

No one should've demanded my head for lunch because I said he WOULDN'T live up to the hype. Because I said he WOULDN'T do very well at taking handoffs/pitches and moving forward with the ball. I didn't deserve a fraction of the shit I took but I didn't let the fact that I took so much shit turn me into a black-and-gold shades wearing, go-team-go guppy.

Wanna know what I expected? I expected a talented football player to recognize that his old habits were destroying him, and to adjust quickly. I expected an intelligent player to realize that six feet and a cloud of dust is acceptable, whereas pop-locking and doing the electric slide 4 yards behind the LOS is NOT acceptable. I expected, 16 weeks into the season, for the same man who earned more adulation from the fans than any player going to any team in recent memory wouldn't have those same fans shouting "RUN FORWARDS ON THE PUNT RETURN, MOTHERFUCKER!" I expected good games and bad games.

If he shouldn't have been expected to fulfill the hype, then nobody should have BOUGHT the damned hype. That's the problem -- people BOUGHT the hype. People CHOSE TO BELIEVE the hype. People CHOSE TO PROJECT THE HYPE upon others. People CHOSE TO SPEW VITRIOL BECAUSE THEIR PRODUCT (#25) DIDN'T CONSISTENTLY PERFORM WELL and others knew to expect that all along.

Call me what you want but I'll be damned if I take another OUNCE of shit for being more mature in my expectations of the guy than 97% of the fans/media. Ain't no fuckin' robots bein' programmed to convince anyone or be convinced of this shit. A powerful group (ESPN) started the hype and a numerous group (Reggie Bush fans) accepted it without thinking shit through. Don't lowball me for not being one of them.

[Edited on January 16, 2007 at 2:02 AM. Reason : ~]

1/16/2007 2:01:29 AM

^There is a difference between hating and criticism. Everything posted above me is just pure hatred!!!! Pure opinion is what you just offered. His stats speak for themselves so we don't have time who read your opinated bird crap!!

Reggie Bush is freaking awesome, and everyone knows that except for those who choose to live in the "matrix". You should have taken the blue pill dude.

1/16/2007 2:54:29 AM

damn

[Edited on January 16, 2007 at 2:55 AM. Reason : .]

1/16/2007 2:54:41 AM

dumbest argument ever

1/16/2007 3:33:49 AM

Where am I hating? Where? Point it out to me, please. Because I re-read it, and it looks like I'm offering up unbiased critique of the guy.

- I said he wouldn't do very well from a rushing standpoint. Either he didn't do well or 3.6 ypc is acceptable now.
- I told people that he NEEDED a guy like Deuce to help shoulder the load. Those people responded that Bush should be given the starting job because he's Reggie Bush. Yeah, some reasoning there, right?

Since he's on my favorite team, I then offered things I wanted to see him do better so he could have better success (stop running east-west, take what's there instead of trying to score on every play, run forwards on punt returns). I summarized this by saying I expected some bad along with the good. I didn't expect seven "not good" games in a row.

Next I went after the same people that went after me pre-season. The people who granted him rookie of the year, the people who said he'd supplant Deuce by midseason, the people who said he was a lock for 2000 all-purpose yards. No hate on Reggie, but tons of it for the hype machine and the starry-eyed zombies it produced.

I guess this needs to be said in summary. There is potential for Reggie Bush to be awesome. We saw bursts of this in the San Fran, New York, and some of the Cleveland game. Also saw some in the second Philly game. But that doesn't make the stinkfests of the first Philly game, the second Tampa game, the Green Bay game, the first Carolina game, and the Baltimore game.

[Edited on January 17, 2007 at 2:13 AM. Reason : ~]

1/17/2007 2:05:19 AM

You don't draft a Decoy you draft a star. I don't know any team that thinks hey lets draft reggie bush and us him as a decoy. If that is the case he is the most expensive decoy I have ever seen. Call Reggie bush what he is. A good WR not the best rookie WR that was Colston but he was good. If you demand lots of money you should produce from day one.If we are going to call reggie bush a great running back then you have also declared Mario Williams the best Rookie defensive player. He took on double teams and allowed his Middle linebacker to make all the tackles. His MLB got defensive rookie of the year. So in our perfect world both Mario Williams and Reggie Bush had great seasons. Right?

1/17/2007 10:22:17 AM