has the youtube of the 6 year old kid solving this been posted yet?

1/29/2008 6:23:00 PM

Quote :

"someone in the "it flies" group explain again what contributes to vertical velocity"

At slightly more than idle, which is all it would take to maintain zero groundspeed at most any treadmill speed, there would be no vertical lift. However, at WOT(wide open throttle) most any aircraft could easily overcome the treadmill and move forward, generating lift.

So:
An airplane on a treadmill, idling so as to not move relative to an observer, will not take off.
Can an airplane on a treadmill take off if allowed normal engine speed. Yes.

[Edited on January 29, 2008 at 6:25 PM. Reason : .]

1/29/2008 6:23:01 PM

Quote :

"so this myth, all along i thought it was saying that the plane would stay horizontally still, and that it would just levitate at some point. so has it involved horizontal motion all along?"

for this page

is this the case

1/29/2008 6:24:35 PM

Quote :

" so this myth, all along i thought it was saying that the plane would stay horizontally still, and that it would just levitate at some point. so has it involved horizontal motion all along? "

Like a riddle, it's worded to trick you.

But the point is that if the pilot is throttling up like he NORMALLY would on take off, it will ALWAYS involve horizontal motion. The treadmill can't meaningfully affect this, because it only acts on the free-spinning wheels, where it's the engines against the air (which is not being affected) that actually moves the plane, not its wheels.

1/29/2008 6:24:45 PM

well thats a no-brainer then

but i think there might be some (although negligible?) friction between the tires and the treadmill that might require additional thrust than what is normally used to take off

[Edited on January 29, 2008 at 6:28 PM. Reason : ]

1/29/2008 6:25:23 PM

well, at least i wasn't the only one thrown off by the wording

1/29/2008 6:25:47 PM

what if it has wheels like those cars that you pull backwards then let go and they shoot forward

and why does the airport shut down when its icy FUCK SHIT OMG EMAIL GOD

1/29/2008 6:27:41 PM

Yes, of course it will require more power than usual. But it's my opinion that almost every aircraft in existance today has much more power than required.

1/29/2008 6:27:44 PM

Quote :

"Like a riddle, it's worded to trick you."

If you interpret the wording literally, it can't trick you. Your brain though imposes its biases of motion (since most people are use to thinking about cars) to trick you.

The treadmill can't actually keep the plane still, unless the plane is throttled up a marginal amount (maybe 5% or so), which it wouldn't take off regardless of if it was on a treadmill.

And it doesn't take much throttle at all to overcome the friction in the wheels. And the question, like any physics questions, ignores this type of friction anyway.

1/29/2008 6:28:20 PM

God@omfme.com

1/29/2008 6:28:35 PM

Quote :

"but i think there might be some (although negligible?) friction in the tires"

planes produce more than enough thrust to take off

you could worry about the gear failing, but that would be a non-factor assuming the gear is engineering with reasonable tolerances. the wheels would be spinning at twice the normal take off speed, and more than likely the rotating elements of the gear are designed to a >2 safety factor

[Edited on January 29, 2008 at 6:31 PM. Reason : .]

1/29/2008 6:28:58 PM

and in the end it took a fucking english major to settle the stupid shit

*suicide*

1/29/2008 6:29:26 PM

^this has been settled 20494 times

[Edited on January 29, 2008 at 6:31 PM. Reason : i counted the entire internets]

1/29/2008 6:30:38 PM

I think I settled it with my moving sidewalk/roller skates example

1/29/2008 6:31:24 PM

ok in the end it took a chilis manager to settle it

[Edited on January 29, 2008 at 6:32 PM. Reason : cause thats even better!]

1/29/2008 6:32:02 PM

Quote :

"what the fuck was the point of the treadmill in the first place"

to confuse people

Quote :

"and that it would just levitate at some point"

lawl, nah, but it would if you got a strong enough head wind...

Quote :

"and in the end it took a fucking english major to settle the stupid shit *suicide*"

no, he might have been the first to post it or post a very simply explained answer but the other guy is right, it had been 'settled' for a long time, every so often someone comes along and mis-perceives the question and kicks this thread back up to the top

stop trying to be funny

[Edited on January 29, 2008 at 6:37 PM. Reason : s]

1/29/2008 6:32:58 PM

^^also have a marketing degree.

What year did you graduate?

Oh yeah, thats right, you didn't. You got all strung out on drugs and dropped out.

[Edited on January 29, 2008 at 6:36 PM. Reason : .]

1/29/2008 6:33:28 PM

i won't bother you with the details, thats close enough for a random person....

you work at chilis. so you might as well wipe your ass with that marketing degree.

1/29/2008 6:37:13 PM

i need to buy a damn frame for that diploma

its just been sittin in my closet all these months

1/29/2008 6:38:07 PM

I work there because I like enjoy it and it occupies my time.

I always have my degree to fall back on if I choose to not work there anymore.

Unlike you. You have no degree. So I guess you could always go back to being a junkie.

How well does being an addict pay anyways?

1/29/2008 6:38:24 PM

whoa whoa whoa, so the treadmill isn't turned on? That is to say, it's just freewheeling? If it isn't then yeah the plane will take off, if it is turned on, though, and is theoretically capable of matching (in the opposite direction) whatever ground speed the plane needs to take off i.e. 180mph then no it won't. Where's the 'official' constraints or details of the problem?

1/29/2008 6:39:24 PM

actually being a junky is negative money, thats why i quit

1/29/2008 6:39:47 PM

^^Jesus Christ, are you serious or joking? It is turned on, it is matching the speed which doesn't matter, and the plane will fly. Read this again and then get back to us.

Quote :

"Ok, let me use this example again for those of you out there that still think the plane will not take off. You have a friend who is wearing roller skates. Think of him as being the plane. He is standing on one of those moving sidewalks(the treadmill) they have at the airport. It is not turned on yet. You are standing to the side on stationairy ground with your hand against your friends back. The moving sidewalk is turned on at this point to a speed of say 5mph. Your friend is remaining stationary because the small amount of force you are putting on his back is holding him in place. Imagine the force of your hand pushing on his back is the thrust of the engines. No matter how fast the treadmill goes, it required the same amount of force to hold him in place. Now say they crank up the treadmill to 180mph, the speed it takes most planes to take off, your hand against his back is still holding him right in place. At this point you begin to walk at a nice steady pace of 6 mph while pushing him along the moving sidewalk. If you don't think it will take off, then explain to me how the moving sidewalk can be going 180mph in one direction, while I am pushing my friend, with total ease, at only 6mph in the other direction. By your logic, I would have to be running at 186mph while pushing him in order to move him forward at 6mph. The plane is free to move forward at any speed regardless of how fast the treadmill is moving in the opposite direction. Do you understand now that the plane will take off? "

1/29/2008 6:41:11 PM

^^^the treadmill is on and matching the speed

it still takes off. you lose

[Edited on January 29, 2008 at 6:41 PM. Reason : .]

1/29/2008 6:41:38 PM

the epiphany reloaded:

airplanes' wheels aren't powered by motors, they are always freewheeling (except maybe on landing i dont know what breaking procedures call for)...ALL of an airplane's FORWARD thrust is powered by the jet engines.

since the engines have no relation on the treadmill motion, they will push the airplane forward.

this myth DOES involve horizontal motion, caused by the jet engine thrust, and as long as the treadmill is the length of a runway, the plane should be able to take off

1/29/2008 6:44:01 PM

ya see, dweedle's a flip flopper

1/29/2008 6:49:19 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4owlyCOzDiE

[/thread]

1/29/2008 6:51:52 PM

jesus fucking christ people, all you need to understand is A. THE TREADMILL HAS NO MEANINGFUL RELATIONSHIP TO THE AIR. AIR ABOVE IT WILL REMAIN BASICALLY STILL REGARDLESS OF HOW FAST THE TREADMILL MOVES. B. THE WHEEL BEARINGS HAVE NO MEANINGFUL AMOUNT OF FRICTION, AND WHETHER THE BEARINGS CAN HANDLE THE 2X NORMAL SPEED WITHOUT SHATTERING IS IRRELEVANT. C. JET ENGINES STILL USE AIR TO PULL THEMSELVES FORWARD...LAST I CHECKED, THIS WAS THE CASE.

1/29/2008 6:53:06 PM

^^^^Thats what we have been trying to tell you all along.

[Edited on January 29, 2008 at 6:54 PM. Reason : .]

1/29/2008 6:53:37 PM

so, if a plane with a big dick is sitting on top of a treadmill who works at chilis, then who takes off first?

1/29/2008 6:56:20 PM

THE FAT VAGINA

1/29/2008 6:57:11 PM

yea i was putting it in terms that i think are clearest in case anyone else thinks as i think

1/29/2008 6:57:47 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4owlyCOzDiE
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4owlyCOzDiE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4owlyCOzDiE

for all of the idiots/trolls

1/29/2008 6:59:01 PM

actually if i hadnt figured it out before watching that video, the video wouldn't have done a lot for me

since it looks like it is propelled by its wheels. if it had a jet engine or something then maybe

1/29/2008 7:01:18 PM

Quote :

"so, if a plane with a big dick is sitting on top of a treadmill who works at chilis, then who takes off first?"

I mean really, its like you're not even trying any more.

1/29/2008 7:02:09 PM

i would think that anyone with the least bit of sense would know that an airplane's forward thrust isn't generate by wheels

[Edited on January 29, 2008 at 7:03 PM. Reason : that toy plane obviously has a prop]

1/29/2008 7:03:07 PM

the guy in the video should have increased the speed of the treadmill once the plane started moving forward

1/29/2008 7:03:47 PM

^he did essentially

1/29/2008 7:04:19 PM

I don't really like the setup that MythBusters is going to use with that huge long tarp acting as a treadmill. Seems like they could have made something better and used a RC Jet Airplane like this and gotten better results. But then you would have morons bitching that it wasn't a real plane I suppose. And I really really want one of these.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IXQVh5IbHc

1/29/2008 7:06:17 PM

[Edited on January 29, 2008 at 7:08 PM. Reason : ,]

1/29/2008 7:07:55 PM

misread

[Edited on January 29, 2008 at 7:11 PM. Reason : .]

1/29/2008 7:09:33 PM

^^^who knows what the mythbusters will really end up doing. they probably have some pretty slick corporate sponsors

they might not have shown the coolest part.

1/29/2008 7:10:31 PM

the plane is obviously going to blow up at some point

1/29/2008 7:11:38 PM

obviously

1/29/2008 7:14:46 PM

^^^They already showed how they are going to do it in the episode trailer.

1/29/2008 7:19:02 PM

see i thought the whole time it was saying a constant motion thats relatve to the plane being stationary on teh treadmill would it take off...without moving forward at all

and of course that answer is no...if it was to move forward then yes, of course.


i see its all in how its worded and how you interpret it.

1/29/2008 7:27:19 PM

vHow in the hell did some of you interpret it that way?


I mean i guess you thought it was going to stay stationary because the movement of the treadmill was going to cancel out the forward movement of the plane. Which is the point of the question and how you think its going to play out. And you thinking it was going to stay stationary is the wrong answer as we have proven..

[Edited on January 29, 2008 at 7:31 PM. Reason : v]

1/29/2008 7:28:21 PM

Quote :

"How in the hell did some of you interpret it that way?"

1/29/2008 7:30:23 PM

The original question stated that the treadmill was matching the speed of the plane. And as we have proven, the plane only has to be going at a small speed to stay stationary on the treadmill, which is not what the question is asking.

1/29/2008 7:33:42 PM

Quote :

"SET EM UP"

1/29/2008 7:38:14 PM