Quote :

"FYI: Bush wasn't on "vacation" much of the time he was at Crawford."

Oh give it up...





[Edited on August 25, 2009 at 2:13 AM. Reason : .]

8/25/2009 2:01:49 AM

^ No, I won't. And do you vacation with a chainsaw?

8/25/2009 4:29:01 AM

that depends if his chainsawing is part of his Presidential activities.....

8/25/2009 7:58:59 AM

^^^I think he was showing the CIA how to properly interrogate suspects

8/25/2009 9:52:54 AM

^ LOL!

8/25/2009 10:34:10 AM

I think the point you're missing is that the article was written in July of his first year as president. Although he would go on to take a lot of vacation, the reporter did not know that at the time and so therefore you can draw the conclusion that the NYT has a liberal bias. I know, shocking.

8/25/2009 11:33:08 AM

I think your characterization of the NYTs article along with the BLS numbers are wrong.

The fact that the unemployment rate had not moved back towards the recent lows in unemployment (3.9-4%) is absolutely troubling. Considering the rate went on to march all the way to 6.3% during the last recession, I'd say the article was at least somewhat on point about the rate.

So, while BO might be given a pass on his trip, it wasn't like the article missed that mark regarding Bush's vacation.

8/25/2009 11:43:37 AM

^^ IIRC, and I may not be, it was noted back then how much time Bush had already taken off before 9/11/01

8/25/2009 11:48:39 AM

Yeah, Bush had a very French outlook on vacation from start to finish.

8/25/2009 12:49:15 PM

4.5% unemployment was so bad

8/25/2009 1:07:50 PM

if i were president i'd want to go fishing sometimes too

8/25/2009 1:36:53 PM

[Edited on August 25, 2009 at 1:39 PM. Reason : .]

8/25/2009 1:38:01 PM

The Washington Post still propagandizing for Bush/Cheney
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/08/29/post

Quote :

"If anyone ever tells you that they don't understand what is meant by "stenography journalism" -- or ever insists that America is plagued by a Liberal Media -- you can show them this article from today's Washington Post and, by itself, it should clear up everything. The article's headline is "How a Detainee Became An Asset -- Sept. 11 Plotter Cooperated After Waterboarding" -- though an equally appropriate headline would be: "The Joys and Virtues of Torture -- how Dick Cheney Kept Us Safe." I defy anyone to identify a single way the article would be different if The Post had let Dick Cheney write it himself. The next time someone laments the economic collapse of the modern American newspaper, one might point out that an industry which pays three separate reporters (Peter Finn, Joby Warrick and Julie Tate) and numerous editors to churn out mindless, inane tripe like this has brought about its own demise. "

8/30/2009 12:23:18 PM

This guy must be part of the liberal conspiracy that WaPo was trying to counteract

Quote :

"Ali Soufan's Congressional testimony Ali Soufan testified about Abu Zubaydah's interrogation in front of Congress May 13, 2009. In his testimony he stated: The case of the terrorist Abu Zubaydah is a good example of where the success of the Informed Interrogation Approach can be contrasted with the failure of the harsh technique approach. I have to restrict my remarks to what has been unclassified. (I will note that there is documented evidence supporting everything I will tell you today.) Immediately after Abu Zubaydah was captured, a fellow FBI agent and I were flown to meet him at an undisclosed location. We were both very familiar with Abu Zubaydah and have successfully interrogated al-Qaeda terrorists. We started interrogating him, supported by CIA officials who were stationed at the location, and within the first hour of the interrogation, using the Informed Interrogation Approach, we gained important actionable intelligence... During his capture Abu Zubaydah had been injured. After seeing the extent of his injuries, the CIA medical team supporting us decided they were not equipped to treat him and we had to take him to a hospital or he would die. At the hospital, we continued our questioning as much as possible, while taking into account his medical condition and the need to know all information he might have on existing threats. We were once again very successful and elicited information regarding the role of KSM as the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks, and lots of other information that remains classified. (It is important to remember that before this we had no idea of KSM's role in 9/11 or his importance in the al Qaeda leadership structure.) All this happened before the [CIA] team arrived. A few days after we started questioning Abu Zubaydah, the CTC interrogation team finally arrived from DC with a contractor who was instructing them on how they should conduct the interrogations, and we were removed. Immediately, on the instructions of the contractor, harsh techniques were introduced, starting with nudity. (The harsher techniques mentioned in the memos were not introduced or even discussed at this point.) The new techniques did not produce results as Abu Zubaydah shut down and stopped talking. At that time nudity and low-level sleep deprivation (between 24 and 48 hours) was being used. After a few days of getting no information, and after repeated inquiries from DC asking why all of sudden no information was being transmitted (when before there had been a steady stream), we again were given control of the interrogation. We then returned to using the Informed Interrogation Approach. Within a few hours, Abu Zubaydah again started talking and gave us important actionable intelligence... After a few days, the contractor attempted to once again try his untested theory and he started to re-implementing the harsh techniques. He moved this time further along the force continuum, introducing loud noise and then temperature manipulation. Throughout this time, my fellow FBI agent and I, along with a top CIA interrogator who was working with us, protested, but we were overruled. I should also note that another colleague, an operational psychologist for the CIA, had left the location because he objected to what was being done. Again, however, the technique wasn't working and Abu Zubaydah wasn't revealing any information, so we were once again brought back in to interrogate him. We found it harder to reengage him this time, because of how the techniques had affected him, but eventually, we succeeded, and he re-engaged again. Once again the contractor insisted on stepping up the notches of his experiment, and this time he requested the authorization to place Abu Zubaydah in a confinement box, as the next stage in the force continuum. While everything I saw to this point were nowhere near the severity later listed in the memos, the evolution of the contractor's theory, along with what I had seen till then, struck me as "borderline torture." As the Department of Justice IG report released last year states, I protested to my superiors in the FBI and refused to be a part of what was happening. The Director of the FBI, Robert Mueller, a man I deeply respect, agreed passing the message that "we don't do that," and I was pulled out. As you can see from this timeline, many of the claims made in the memos about the success of the enhanced techniques are inaccurate. For example, it is untrue to claim Abu Zubaydah wasn't cooperating before August 1, 2002. The truth is that we got actionable intelligence from him in the first hour of interrogating him. In addition, simply by putting together dates cited in the memos with claims made, falsehoods are obvious. For example, it has been claimed that waterboarding got Abu Zubaydah to give up information leading to the capture of Jose Padilla. But that doesn't add up: Waterboarding wasn't approved until 1August 2002 (verbally it was authorized around mid July 2002), and Padilla was arrested in May 2002. The same goes for KSM's involvement in 9/11: That was discovered in April 2002, while waterboarding was not introduced until almost three months later. It speaks volumes that the quoted instances of harsh interrogation methods being a success are false. Nor can it be said that the harsh techniques were effective, which is why we had to be called back in repeatedly. As we know from the memos, the techniques that were apparently introduced after I left did not appear to work either, which is why the memos granted authorization for harsher techniques. That continued for several months right till waterboarding was introduced, which had to be used 83 times – an indication that Abu Zubaydah had called the interrogator's bluff knowing the glass ceiling that existed.[47] "

From

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Zubaydah

8/30/2009 12:30:49 PM

So greenwald is counteringTWP's "mindless, inane tripe" with his own "mindless, inane tripe"

go figure

8/30/2009 12:31:05 PM

What about Greenwalds post was mindless and inane? I bet you didn't even read it.

8/30/2009 12:34:28 PM

Jon Stewart on the lack of investigative journalism related to the ACORN scandal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UrP1bq8vpc

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-september-15-2009/the-audacity-of-hos

9/18/2009 7:37:30 AM

Obama Merchandise a Big Seller at NBC Store



http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/17/obama-merchandise-big-seller-nbc-store/

9/21/2009 7:11:26 AM

Okay?

9/21/2009 9:38:40 AM

^ Yeah, it probably is "okay" with you.

Quote :

"But others note that there is no merchandise available that shows support for the other side of the political aisle."

Quote :

"There are no t-shirts or refrigerator magnets for George and Laura Bush, and NBC did not say whether it ever sold Bush items after his victory in 2000."

Quote :

"'The NBC Universal Store stands out for the amount of pro-Obama trinkets and gadgets and promotional material it sells. Its nearest competitor is CBS, which has a dozen items...books and the 60 Minutes interview with Obama,' DePaul University journalism professor Bruce Evensen said. 'The [NBC] site seems like a campaign stop for those following their messiah...The appearance that NBC isn't reporting the news with fairness, balance and impartiality -- but is instead cheerleading -- is apparent,' he said."

Quote :

"Jane Kirtley, executive director of the University of Minnesota's Silha Center for Media Ethics and Law, said, 'I would agree that it is problematic when you have an entity that has a news division to appear to be taking a partisan line. When you're selling memorabilia that supports anybody who prevailed in an election, you run the risk of being labeled as having a partisan affiliation.' 'To me, whatever money they're making off of this, it's not worth it. It undermines any attempt to represent itself as a nonpartisan entity,' she said."

9/21/2009 12:15:35 PM

And?

I mean, I don't get the point of what you're saying. Who cares if they sell merchandise that caters to their audience?

9/21/2009 12:33:13 PM

^ Either some of you are stupid or you're just trolling. Take your head out of your ass and think for yourself--for once.

This is the fucking spoon-fed point:

Quote :

"'Jane Kirtley, executive director of the University of Minnesota's Silha Center for Media Ethics and Law, said, 'I would agree that it is problematic when you have an entity that has a news division to appear to be taking a partisan line. When you're selling memorabilia that supports anybody who prevailed in an election, you run the risk of being labeled as having a partisan affiliation.' 'To me, whatever money they're making off of this, it's not worth it. It undermines any attempt to represent itself as a nonpartisan entity,' she said."

9/21/2009 12:43:52 PM

from now on, hooksaw should be required to tell us why we should care about what he posts.

9/21/2009 12:46:09 PM

Before the beginning, after the great war between Heaven and Hell, God created the Earth and gave dominion over it to the crafty ape he called man. And to each generation was born a creature of light (MSNBC) and a creature of darkness (FOX News). And great armies clashed by night in the ancient war between good and evil. There was magic then, nobility, and unimaginable cruelty. And so it was until the day that a false sun exploded over Trinity, and man forever traded away wonder for reason.

9/21/2009 12:46:38 PM

IM GONNA WRITE MY CONGRESSMAN B/C THERES AN OBONGO SHIRT IN THE NBC STORE

9/21/2009 12:47:46 PM

^^^ No, I shouldn't. You obviously care--it's so painfully obvious.

^^ Stupid--and addresses nothing. You and your cohorts are the problem here--not me.

If either of you don't like it, just GTFO. Thanks!

9/21/2009 12:51:30 PM

Quote :

"Either some of you are stupid or you're just trolling. Take your head out of your ass and think for yourself--for once. "

followed by using a quote to make "his" point. classic.

9/21/2009 12:52:52 PM

we care about this because it's just one of a few markers of the decline of this forum.

factors contributing to TSB decline:

1. Departure of dominant posters who actually had ideas and clear opinions (TGD, Packguy, Gamecat, McDanger)
2. Focus on sensational bullshit (thanks salisburyboy)
3. Using this as a news aggregator (ie: just posting a link to news and not bothering to tell why we should care, also knows as "The Hooksaw Effect").

What blog do you grab all this stuff from?

9/21/2009 12:59:56 PM

^ Idiots like you are the real problem here.

Quote :

"we care about this because it's just one of a few markers of the decline of this forum."

[OLD]

People have been complaining about the "decline" of the whole of TWW for years and you know it. What's new?

Quote :

"factors contributing to TSB decline: 1. Departure of dominant posters who actually had ideas and clear opinions (TGD, Packguy, Gamecat, McDanger)"

I'll give you TGD and Gamecat--but McDouche? Are you fucking serious? I've run him out of here a couple of times as I recall. He only thinks he's smart--he's actually not very.

Quote :

"2. Focus on sensational bullshit (thanks salisburyboy)"

Current events seems a perfectly acceptable area of exploration to me in a mostly political forum. What would you like to discuss, The Rite of Spring?

Quote :

"3. Using this as a news aggregator (ie: just posting a link to news and not bothering to tell why we should care, also knows as 'The Hooksaw Effect' hooksaw derangement syndrome)."

Fixed. And much of that What's your point? shit is just trolling and you know it.

Quote :

"What blog do you grab all this stuff from?"

I swear to you on all that is good in this world that I don't read blogs--I fucking hate blogs. I've named my sources here before--pay attention. I shouldn't have to repeat myself.

9/21/2009 1:20:40 PM

1. if you think this is exclusive to you, you obviously weren't around for THABIGL/Randy. He got ran out for posting bullshit, too.

2. how exactly did you "run him off"?

9/21/2009 1:23:40 PM

Quote :

"Current events seems a perfectly acceptable area of exploration to me in a mostly political forum. What would you like to discuss, The Rite of Spring?"

Really. Really? Were salisburyboy threads really necessary?

http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_search.aspx?searchstring=&type=topic&username=salisburyboy&usertype=match

9/21/2009 1:27:40 PM

if you're actually going to give commentary on events, then you've got it figured out. we're talking more than a sentence like "so much for hope and change "

like sals, you just cut and paste and either add sarcastic lines at the end or expect people to care enough to start the argument for you.

[Edited on September 21, 2009 at 1:30 PM. Reason : /]

9/21/2009 1:30:19 PM

^^^ Um. . .I remember Randy. He used to send me PMs asking for my support if he got suspended.

^^ Dude, I'm pro-Israel--you've never seen me pining away for the salisburyboy days. But if you've checked FF, he's got a following. I think people just miss the fireworks and ensuing entertainment--but I'm not one of them.

^ Man, just shut the fuck up--seriously. You're a buffoon and everybody knows it. This old sage of TSB shit you're pulling right now is unbecoming--you ain't the old sage of jack shit.

I'll continue to post as I see fit. And you and your cohorts will continue to act be stupid.

9/21/2009 1:36:53 PM

YOURE A BABOON AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT

9/21/2009 1:39:29 PM

QED.

9/21/2009 1:46:42 PM

^^ wow, he's about 2 hairs away from calling you the N word. ha.

hooksaw, you should give wral a call and see what they think.

9/21/2009 1:49:39 PM

Quote :

"I'll continue to post as I see fit. And you and your cohorts will continue to act be stupid."

Hacksaw, it seems to me the general consensus among the members here is that your snarky attitude and posting style is not appreciated, and is actually getting on everyone's nerves. You need to change if you want to get serious and respectful replies.

9/21/2009 2:39:31 PM

^ Maybe you're right. I'll post like some of the others:



message_topic.aspx?topic=576740

Are you the moonbats' duly appointed spokesperson now--or are you self-appointed?



[Edited on September 21, 2009 at 2:51 PM. Reason : Referring to me as "Hacksaw" is very "respectful," right? ]

9/21/2009 2:49:06 PM

we all can't be like carzak trolling the internet 24/7 for more 'talking-points' hack stories as hooksaw picks him apart with actual facts and reality to back himself up.

i guess the 99.9343% liberal view in soap box isn't far enough left for you is it??

9/21/2009 3:00:55 PM

i love hooksaw posts

its different from the daily far out, far left, bullshit that overruns this board

9/21/2009 3:32:44 PM

^ Ah, a bit of light in the darkness--a welcome sign!

9/21/2009 3:37:50 PM

WHATISOBAMASPOSITIONONTHISSOWECANSTOPTHEDEBATE

9/21/2009 3:43:15 PM

Buffoonery--it's unbecoming.

9/21/2009 3:45:23 PM

this is unusual territory for democrats to be in

9/21/2009 4:20:12 PM

^ Yeah, on the wrong side of Obama.

9/21/2009 4:21:35 PM

Quote :

"we all can't be like carzak trolling the internet 24/7 for more 'talking-points' hack stories as hooksaw picks him apart with actual facts and reality to back himself up."

9/21/2009 4:44:47 PM

Hooksaw, I'm just observing what is going on in this and other threads. If you want to ignore it, then fine.

Keep getting yourself all red in the face and hurling insults and snarky remarks and watch your threads get shit all over and nobody wanting to have serious discussion.

Oh, and also, keep posting highlighted articles with no commentary so nobody really knows where you stand or what the point is. That will also result in the above.

[Edited on September 21, 2009 at 5:03 PM. Reason : .]

9/21/2009 5:01:14 PM

Quote :

"I RAN ALL NIGHT AND DAY"

Oh, look, it works in this thread, too!

[Edited on September 21, 2009 at 5:03 PM. Reason : It's not my fault you're a bunch of assholes. Treat me better and I'll treat you better. ]

9/21/2009 5:01:26 PM

Quote :

"It's not my fault you're a bunch of assholes. Treat me better and I'll treat you better."

See that's the problem.

You think it's everyone else's fault. It couldn't possibly be due to something your'e doing. And that's why you're a self-righteous douchebag. And everyone else will continue to be assholes in your eyes until you change.

9/21/2009 5:08:52 PM

Quote :

"Treat me better and I'll treat you better."

9/21/2009 5:10:44 PM