Quote :

"Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the 'criminal justice system,' I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal"

oh look, you are STILL quoting something that was NOT written by Ron Paul. You wouldn't happen to be a "truther", would you? That's the only other kind of person I've ever seen with such willful disregard for fact.

8/29/2011 3:18:14 PM

Same question that's always raised with regards to that quote: why the hell was it being published under his name and who published it?

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2011/08/29/poll_perry_and_johnson_surge_paul_and_romney_hardest_hit.html

6%

Where's his support going nationwide? I thought he was doing better than this? It's not going to Johnson, he's still at 2%. Could it be that the young adult Ron Paul face you see on the internet is marginal and the anti-government folks that were toying with supporting him are the same Christian right that Perry's pandering to?

[Edited on August 29, 2011 at 3:27 PM. Reason : x]

8/29/2011 3:25:29 PM

Quote :

"Same question that's always raised with regards to that quote: why the hell was it being published under his name and who published it?"

google "Ron Paul ghost writer" and you'll get your answer. He long ago admitted that he lent his name to some obscure newsletter and it ended up being a bad idea.

8/29/2011 3:38:06 PM

Quote :

"How is it even possible for a medical doctor to deny evolution?! They watch microbes adapt to antibiotics every day."

As an engineer who works among doctors, I've found that very few of them have what I would call a "scientific mind". It's a profession that mostly relies on solving problems via personal experience and doing what someone else said or wrote. A very small minority of them are critical thinkers, and the ones that are tend to gravitate towards research rather than actually practicing medicine.

8/29/2011 3:44:16 PM

Nothing I didn't already know, but still deserves a /facepalm.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ ftw

8/29/2011 3:46:14 PM

Quote :

"Ron Paul doesn't believe in evolution."

UGH....huge loss in brownie points!

8/29/2011 4:34:48 PM

woopty fucking do. he's an older Christian, it's not a huge shock. It has zero bearing on his ability to lead the nation. Unless you think that Lincoln and FDR did a shitty job

8/29/2011 4:35:49 PM

God, I can't wait until Ron Paul becomes President. Then, we can finally abandon any pretense of "principle" and enact theocracy/segregation of public institutions on a federal level.

8/29/2011 4:55:13 PM

?

8/29/2011 6:00:13 PM

^^^ well it definitely makes me second guess his critical thinking skills!!

[Edited on August 29, 2011 at 6:00 PM. Reason : ^]

8/29/2011 6:00:15 PM

why? because he is a religious guy? Look, if he were saying that life has always existed on earth exactly as it is right now for the past 4 billion years, that'd be something. Instead, he's saying that he thinks what his religion taught him is true. It's not a great thing, but it doesn't make him a complete idiot. Dude passed medical school, for crying out loud

8/29/2011 6:01:43 PM

Religious belief is a powerful thing. Intelligent individuals have the ability to "compartmentalize" their beliefs. Many brilliant people are religious, and many idiots could be called atheists. Religion is more a result of upbringing and circumstances than ability to think critically, which is something that many atheist/agnostics can forget, myself included.

8/29/2011 6:08:04 PM

very true. And I would say that the ability to compartmentalize the two certainly shows some level of critical thinking in understanding that it should be done

8/29/2011 6:22:37 PM

WHAT????

Compartmentalization is not a sign of critical thinking skills, it's a coping mechanism for reconciling the cognitive dissonance caused by wanting to believe something in the face of contrary evidence. Though I am not surprised in the least that you would try to spin it as a positive.

The fact of the matter is that no matter the capacity for compartmentalization, beliefs inform actions and when the time comes to veto some bullshit unscientific law will someone who puts faith over reason do the right thing?

8/29/2011 7:16:31 PM

faith in what? government, or god? because, frankly, both can be just as dangerous.

and, I can see how you might consider compartmentalization as a coping mechanism for cognitive dissonance. or, you might actually think that "this line of thought does not apply and should not be used for this situation". I tend to keep my religious beliefs away from my political beliefs precisely because of that, and not due to any cognitive dissonance. I think people shouldn't be coerced by any government entity into or from any religious thing, which makes me keep the two separate in my own mind as well.

8/29/2011 7:37:24 PM

Who's the best critical thinking and atheist candidate to vote for?

8/29/2011 7:37:50 PM

you probably aren;'t going to find that on a national stage, lol.

8/29/2011 7:39:32 PM

Exactly.

8/29/2011 7:43:18 PM

There didn't used to be black or women politicians either. There are more openly gay politicians than openly atheist, but you won't see a gay President any time soon. In this and many other states there are laws prohibiting atheists from holding any elected office. Remember that, Christians, next time you claim you are the ones being persecuted by "militant atheists."

Quote :

"and, I can see how you might consider compartmentalization as a coping mechanism for cognitive dissonance. or, you might actually think that "this line of thought does not apply and should not be used for this situation"."

Critical thinking skills should be applied to every situation. Critical thinking skills are essentially your ability to cut through bullshit claims. Having one set of critical thinking skills for one set of claims and another set for other claims is inconsistent and a problem. Compartmentalization is not a useful or positive trait. It is a deficiency.

8/30/2011 8:46:41 AM

Quote :

"Who's the best critical thinking and atheist candidate to vote for?"

I guarantee you there is one, they're just not telling anyone.

8/30/2011 9:07:03 AM

Quote :

"why? because he is a religious guy?"

disbelief in Evolution does not equal religious or vice-versa. Evolution is as proven a theory as gravitation. If a candidate for POTUS said that they did not believe in gravity would you question his/her critical thinking skills?

8/30/2011 9:54:53 AM

Evolution is even more explained than gravitation. The mechanisms behind evolution are vastly better defined (nearly completely known) than for gravitation.

Also while disbelief in evolution doesn't necessarily mean religious, I have yet to hear a non-religious reason for it. Time and again, the true motive is "I have a supernatural explanation that I wish to believe, so to hell with reason and evidence." Same for gay marriage.

[Edited on August 30, 2011 at 11:36 AM. Reason : .]

8/30/2011 11:27:55 AM

Quote :

"Critical thinking skills should be applied to every situation. Critical thinking skills are essentially your ability to cut through bullshit claims. Having one set of critical thinking skills for one set of claims and another set for other claims is inconsistent and a problem. Compartmentalization is not a useful or positive trait. It is a deficiency."

It's not ideal, but it's better than letting belief completely bleed over into action and behavior. You don't hear Ron Paul frequently making appeals to "God," "prayer," or Christian doctrine. He makes it clear that he is a strong Christian (if he wasn't a strong Christian, he never would have held office to begin with), but he doesn't wear it on his sleeve like a Rick Perry, Sarah Palin, or Mike Huckabee.

8/30/2011 11:36:42 AM

^^ agreed, but my point is still valid. I think some people need to realize that not believing in evolution is like if not worse then not believing in gravity.

^ agreed and that's why I would still vote for him. RP is able to put his personal beliefs aside and not let them influence his authority due to his strict alignment with the Constitution.

8/30/2011 12:08:48 PM

Homeboy was on NPR today. He was asked if he supported federal environmental regulations. He said yes, but only because it was a "property rights issue" and air and water cross state lines and therefore fall under the interstate commerce clause.

I shit you not.

8/31/2011 8:34:08 PM

Seems like a valid, reasonable position that you should agree with.

8/31/2011 8:36:55 PM

You guys know that if Paul is elected he'll just pull a Thomas Jefferson and expand federal powers and presidential privilege anyway. I'm sure he'll feel really guilty about it too.

8/31/2011 8:39:57 PM

There's only one solution, then. Death to America.

8/31/2011 8:56:08 PM

8/31/2011 10:30:43 PM

Quote :

"In this and many other states there are laws prohibiting atheists from holding any elected office."

give me a fucking link for that lie, especially since it is EXPLICITLY forbidden in the Constitution. That'd be the easiest fucking law to get overturned ever.

Quote :

"Having one set of critical thinking skills for one set of claims and another set for other claims is inconsistent and a problem."

Assuming that religious beliefs are consolidated with "critical thinking skills" then sure. But i'd say that they are separate, not because religion is cray-cray, but because the two just really don't work in the same realm, except for the idiots who want to apply intelligent falling. And, again, saying that your beliefs shouldn't be imposed on others is a very valuable statement for someone to make.

8/31/2011 11:30:51 PM

^Article 6, Section 8 of the NC Constitution.

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/Legislation/constitution/article6.html

Quote :

"Sec. 8. Disqualifications for office. The following persons shall be disqualified for office: First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God."

[Edited on September 1, 2011 at 12:33 AM. Reason : link]

9/1/2011 12:32:40 AM

Thanks tulip. Aaronburro, how does that feel? It's the first god-damned clause of the "these people shall not hold office" law.

Quote :

"Assuming that religious beliefs are consolidated with "critical thinking skills" then sure. But i'd say that they are separate, not because religion is cray-cray, but because the two just really don't work in the same realm, except for the idiots who want to apply intelligent falling. And, again, saying that your beliefs shouldn't be imposed on others is a very valuable statement for someone to make."

There is no other realm. Religion and non-religion are in the same realm: reality. All you're trying to do is make a special exception for religion, which is compartmentalization 101.

[Edited on September 1, 2011 at 9:27 AM. Reason : .]

9/1/2011 9:23:35 AM

Quote :

""Sec. 8. Disqualifications for office. The following persons shall be disqualified for office: First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God.""

wow that's fucked up!!

9/1/2011 11:31:52 AM

And fuckers actually tried (unsuccessfully thanks to that Constitution aaronburro mentioned) to get an atheist councilman fired over it.

http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20091208/NEWS01/912080327/Critics-Cecil-Bothwell-cite-N-C-bar-atheists

[Edited on September 1, 2011 at 11:40 AM. Reason : .]

9/1/2011 11:37:05 AM

Quote :

"^Article 6, Section 8 of the NC Constitution."

Which isn't enforced. In other words, it's an old "law" that no longer matters. Where are the atheists being denied the opportunity to run, again? ^ See, even with that, it was quickly laughed away. A law isn't really a law if it aint enforced. More importantly, that was put in place BEFORE THE CONSTITUTION WAS WRITTEN. Kind of an important thing to think about, dontchathink?

Quote :

"There is no other realm."

There absolutely is: here is how I should treat people, here is how the gov't should treat people. It's really fucking obvious, dude.

[Edited on September 1, 2011 at 12:25 PM. Reason : ]

9/1/2011 12:22:19 PM

Quote :

"Which isn't enforced. In other words, it's an old "law" that no longer matters. Where are the atheists being denied the opportunity to run, again? ^ See, even with that, it was quickly laughed away. A law isn't really a law if it aint enforced. More importantly, that was put in place BEFORE THE CONSTITUTION WAS WRITTEN. Kind of an important thing to think about, dontchathink?"

Did I say "atheists are successfully prevented from holding public office?" Read what I wrote, douchebag. The existence of this "law" is an affront to atheists just as if there was a law that said that women couldn't vote still on the books even though such a law could not possibly be enforced.

Quote :

"There absolutely is: here is how I should treat people, here is how the gov't should treat people. It's really fucking obvious, dude."

But the same set of critical thinking skills are what you use to conclude *how* you should treat people and *how* the government should treat people. Critical thinking skills are the same no matter what topic (religion, not religion) is being analyzed. You and every other theist loves special pleading this away though, because critical thinking skills are anathema to theism.

9/1/2011 1:01:59 PM

I Voted for Obama, Now I'm Voting for Ron Paul

Quote :

"I truly believe that I speak for so many young progressives that would be proponents for peace, clean food and water, and a government that actually helps and cares for its citizens. After 8 years of GWB and the lies about WMDs, 9-11, Monsanto, Iraq...etc...anyone coming from the other party looked like a better choice. I was somehow still under the illusion that the Democratic Party would work for the people and not corporate/banking/defense industry interests. "

Quote :

"I have to thank Mr. Obama for waking me up to this truth. When he showed support for Monsanto and big agribusiness, the continued (and escalated) warmongering, and even the continued selling-out of the American taxpayer to the Federal Reserve, the lightbulb went off in my head -- they are all simply employees. On the other hand, Dr. Ron Paul seems to be the only candidate that is talking about the big pink elephant in the room. The money wasted on war, the fact that our nation has been sold to international banks, and that the federal government is becoming a monster overtaking state autonomy. I never would have thought that the day would come where I would actually consider voting for someone else than a democrat. I want the world to be clean and healthy paradise planet for the next generations and for those that are living here now. I want the freedom to be able to buy clean food and drink unfluoridated water. I feel that its not asking too much, but the current administration continues to take away these rights. "

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anthony-anderson/i-voted-for-obama-now-im-_b_944097.html

9/1/2011 1:59:43 PM

Quote :

"Modeling, Raw Chocolate, Permaculturist"

And if he's concerned about Monsanto and (I assume) seed patents, I doubt he's going to get much help from anyone on that.

I'll be this guy is like a friend of mine that says that the one issue that matters the most to them now is raw milk. Like, literally. Sure, they might lose their reproductive rights, but raw milk is, like, more healthy maaaaan.

And I still don't get how people who fear big banks think that a free market money supply is going to result in a thousand currencies and not the same consolidation that we've seen in areas like communications. At least now we have some kind of regulatory system which in theory (and in many ways, in practice, though not as much as it should) provides us with some information so that we can avoid the peril of asymmetric information in banking.

Of course, since that system is broke, we should just blow up the whole thing and say "fuck it. rational actors and so forth."

And before someone says something, I don't give a fuck if people want to eat cyanide, but if it spreads bacteria or possible foodborne diseases, there's a genuine collective reason for keeping an eye on it (or at least requiring proper labeling).

[Edited on September 1, 2011 at 3:44 PM. Reason : x]

9/1/2011 3:40:40 PM

http://intrade.com/v4/markets/?eventId=84328
http://intrade.com/v4/markets/contract/?contractId=669534

Place your bets.

9/1/2011 5:01:47 PM

Quote :

"The existence of this "law" is an affront to atheists just as if there was a law that said that women couldn't vote still on the books even though such a law could not possibly be enforced."

no, not really. It's so not a law, that it was thrown out immediately and the idiots pushing it were laughed out of the courtroom.

Quote :

"But the same set of critical thinking skills are what you use to conclude *how* you should treat people and *how* the government should treat people. Critical thinking skills are the same no matter what topic (religion, not religion) is being analyzed."

Not really. Again, I can easily apply a separate set of thought processes given the circumstance. As in, I think cheating on your wife is horrible, partly due to my religious beliefs. Yet, I won't advocate for making adultery illegal.

9/1/2011 8:02:58 PM

Quote :

"I want the freedom to be able to buy clean food and drink unfluorida­ted water."

LOL!

9/2/2011 12:27:50 AM

Quote :

"Not really. Again, I can easily apply a separate set of thought processes given the circumstance. As in, I think cheating on your wife is horrible, partly due to my religious beliefs. Yet, I won't advocate for making adultery illegal."

That's not having two sets of critical thinking skills nor is it compartmentalization. That's simply a conclusion that you've come to about two different situations. The situations aren't even in conflict.

9/2/2011 2:37:46 PM

Ron Paul 2016

9/2/2011 2:50:20 PM

^the dude is older than mccain. He's in better shape, but I just don't see him becoming president in his 80s. No, if he's ever going to have a shot, then the GOP/tea party is going to have to let him thru the primaries this time. AKA: he's doomed.

9/2/2011 3:38:59 PM

^^^ someone is backtracking now. how would I, then, apply religious thoughts to politics if they can't be in conflict? It very much seems logical that religious thought about adultery could be carried over into the public square. After all, I think we all know of places around the world where it most certainly does.

9/2/2011 3:52:41 PM

^^Indeed. It's 2012 or bust. If Ron Paul doesn't get elected, the United States' status a second tier nation going into the 2020s is virtually guaranteed.

9/2/2011 5:30:42 PM

Cyborg Ron Paul 2020

9/2/2011 5:45:36 PM

^The most sensible suggestion in this thread yet!

9/2/2011 7:18:25 PM

Guys I think we can all agree that we'll vote for whomever will allow us to drink unflouridated water.

9/3/2011 5:06:59 PM

wat?

9/3/2011 10:25:59 PM