So now that the smoking ban is set to become effective in about 6 months, what is the next big health risk that the government needs to step in and ban...maybe fatty foods? how about alcohol? Cause they're far from done.

5/14/2009 2:41:34 PM

you can no longer has cheezburger
only veggie burger

5/14/2009 2:43:07 PM

They'll ban darts from bars soon gunzz, cause even if you have the plastic tip ones, you could potentially put someone's eye out

5/14/2009 2:43:56 PM

your exaggeration of the events at hand only undermines your credibility.

5/14/2009 2:44:33 PM

Quote :

"We are all connected."

This is my point concerning the racism issue -- it's NOT black and white, there are so many gray areas. You can't just say racist thoughts are ok because they dont' affect anyone -- eventually, those thoughts will leak, subsequently causing harm to someone who hears them. Therefore, the racist thoughts, in and of themselves, lead to harmful actions.


How in the world did racism even come to play in this damn thread anyways.. It's about smoking.

5/14/2009 2:45:24 PM

^^why do you think many bars changed to plastic tip darts in the first place?

your naivety to further government regulation isn't exactly helping your credibility

5/14/2009 2:45:46 PM

Possibly because they didn't enjoy the liability of possibly having some drunk throw a dart through someones sac?

Really don't see what that has to do with the situation at hand. Is there proposed legislation somewhere about that?

5/14/2009 2:47:47 PM

I figured out why Willy Nilly has sand in his vagina...

He owns a gay bar.

5/14/2009 2:48:09 PM

Quote :

"does your aim improve by smoking, mine seems to get better as I drink lol"

actually it does b/c of the calming effect of the nicotine
when you are down to one throw to win a game that smoke can calm the nerves

i have my own set of darts that i throw with and i have never been to a bar that had a soft tip board

5/14/2009 2:49:43 PM

^^^maybe bars can ban all glass bottles and glasses in favor of plastic since theres much less risk of broken glass injuries...obviously the bar owners and customers aren't capable of deciding things like that for themselves, they need legislation passed to protect us from ourselves

Also I might buy some stock in Skoal or Copenhagen

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 2:50 PM. Reason : .]

5/14/2009 2:49:57 PM

^^valid point, i don't like the soft tip boards at all

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 2:51 PM. Reason : ^]

5/14/2009 2:50:57 PM

Quote :

"Also I might buy some stock in Skoal or Copenhagen"

el oh el

American Snuff Co. FTW

5/14/2009 2:52:22 PM

Quote :

"Let's just get this straight one more time: SMOKERS: QUIT BITCHING! IT'S A DONE DEAL! YOUR RIGHTS ARE NOT BEING IMPEDED UPON, YOU CAN STILL SMOKE. NON-SMOKERS: BREATHE DEEP, AND ENJOY THE CLEAN[er] AIR. AND DON'T RUB IT IN."

You see? You don't even understand the issue. It's not smokers that are having their rights trampled, it's private property owners.

Quote :

"This is my point concerning the racism issue -- it's NOT black and white, there are so many gray areas. You can't just say racist thoughts are ok because they dont' affect anyone -- eventually, those thoughts will leak, subsequently causing harm to someone who hears them. Therefore, the racist thoughts, in and of themselves, lead to harmful actions."

Look, I understand that you really want to believe that's true, because you were perhaps incorrectly taught that racism is harmful, and that you really oppose racism. But you are just not making the distinction. You can't say that eventually those thoughts will leak because you don't know that, and furthermore, simply hearing them spoken isn't necessarily harmful to anyone. Hate speech is still free speech. You can disagree, but you'd be wrong.

5/14/2009 2:56:03 PM

^ I love how you're the one preaching to me that I was incorrectly taught, etc, yet you're the one who was freaking out at everyone earlier that they were assuming things about you -- this is the pot calling the kettle black. You're ASSUMING I was incorrectly taught about racism just because it doesn't coincide with YOUR opinion.

Excuse me, but could you please get your head out of your ass?

Like I said, this shit isn't black and white -- you will always think about this situation in a different light than I. The way I see it, free speech can still be hate speech. I am making a distinction but all your arguments can be turned to fit my side as well -- you say that I don't know if those thoughts will ever be released, well you don't know that the thoughts would never not be released. In closing, I really suggest you learn to debate with someone instead of just saying things like, "Well what you learned is wrong." If you want people to treat you with respect instead of just assuming all this stuff about you, why don't you do the same?

Hypocrite.

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 3:01 PM. Reason : The last part was just to show I refuse to show respect if you don't do the same.]

5/14/2009 3:01:18 PM

how many of you that are in favor of this ban are republicans/conservatives or voted for McCain?

5/14/2009 3:02:49 PM

^ I'm not super in favor for it and I'm a Republican.

5/14/2009 3:03:48 PM

^^I'm in favor and I voted Obama. Also I lean Libertarian.

5/14/2009 3:07:09 PM

has Obama quit smoking yet?

5/14/2009 3:07:53 PM

^^ that is a tres confusing statement

^ i dunno. i think so.

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 3:08 PM. Reason : .]

5/14/2009 3:08:17 PM

the ban is gonna pass what difference does it make whether you're in favor for it or not or if your republican or democrat?

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 3:09 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 3:09 PM. Reason : typo]

5/14/2009 3:08:24 PM

did you know that the Nazis were some of the first to start this kind of smoking ban.
im sorry if this has already been mentioned in this thread:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tobacco_movement_in_Nazi_Germany

Quote :

"Hitler's attitude towards smoking Hitler encouraged his close associates to quit smoking. Adolf Hitler was a heavy smoker in his early life—he used to smoke 25 to 40 cigarettes daily—but gave up the habit, concluding that it was a waste of money.[11] In later years, Hitler viewed smoking as "decadent"[15] and "the wrath of the Red Man against the White Man, vengeance for having been given hard liquor",[11] lamenting that "so many excellent men have been lost to tobacco poisoning".[19] He was unhappy because both Eva Braun and Martin Bormann were smokers and was concerned over Hermann Göring's continued smoking in public places. He was angered when a statue portraying a cigar-smoking Göring was commissioned.[11] Hitler is often considered to be the first national leader to advocate nonsmoking, although James VI and I has a better claim that title by three hundred years.[20] Hitler disapproved of the military personnel's freedom to smoke, and during World War II he said on 2 March 1942, "it was a mistake, traceable to the army leadership at the time, at the beginning of the war". He also said that it was "not correct to say that a soldier cannot live without smoking". He promised to end the use of tobacco in the military after the end of the war. Hitler personally encouraged close friends not to smoke and rewarded those who quit smoking. However, Hitler's personal distaste for tobacco was only one of several catalysts behind the anti-smoking campaign.[11]"

Quote :

"the ban is gonna pass what difference does it make whether you're in favor for it or not or if your republican or democrat?"

way to miss the point little guy.

im registered Dem but i lean libertarian and im against this vote

Republicans are against big government interfering with the freedoms and liberties of the american public. anyone who votes republican should be, by party affiliation, highly against this bill b/c of those freedoms being impeded upon

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 3:17 PM. Reason : sdf]

5/14/2009 3:10:46 PM

they aren't saying you can't smoke

5/14/2009 3:18:53 PM

Quote :

"You're ASSUMING I was incorrectly taught"

No, I clearly said "perhaps"
Try again.

Quote :

"Excuse me, but could you please get your head out of your ass?"

You're the one that can't read.

Quote :

"The way I see it, free speech can still be hate speech"

So? That's what I'm saying. They're the same. Hate speech is but one type of free speech, and in fact, all speech is free speech.

Quote :

"I am making a distinction but all your arguments can be turned to fit my side as well "

No, because then you're putting the cart before the horse.

Quote :

"you say that I don't know if those thoughts will ever be released, well you don't know that the thoughts would never not be released"

And as such, which side does society err on? Like I said, unless something poses an unreasonable danger, it is not wrong. Merely thinking racist thoughts, which nearly everyone does whether they like it or not, does not pose an unreasonable danger. Perhaps you think it does, because you're only considering the worst of the worst. Suggesting that blacks like fried chicken is racist, but how is that in any way pose an unreasonable danger? Suggesting that all whites are inferior and should be killed is racist, and certainly if any racism were to pose an unreasonable danger, that would. But these two degrees of racism are both, in and of themselves, still racism -- So when you generalize racism, you are talking about both. Therefore, racism, in and of itself, does not pose an unreasonable danger. Extreme and violent and xenophobic racism may border on what some consider an unreasonable danger, but that is very very different from the vastly more common instances of mild racism. Isn't a blacks-only choir racist? Should we ban them? No. A blacks-only choir is so fucking different in terms of it's racism than a whites-only KKK group that they simply aren't comparable, and therefore you can't simply generalize all racism as being unreasonably dangerous or harmful.

Quote :

"In closing, I really suggest you learn to debate with someone instead of just saying things like, "Well what you learned is wrong." "

Yeah, except I didn't say that. I really suggest you learn to debate with someone instead of putting words in their mouth.

Quote :

"Hypocrite."

Not at all.

Quote :

"I'm in favor and I voted Obama. Also I lean Libertarian"

You mean you lean away from Libertarian. There is no way any libertarian could support this ban, let alone be neutral. Who the fuck do you think you're fooling, besides yourself?

Quote :

"did you know that the Nazis were some of the first to start this kind of smoking ban."

That doesn't surprise me at all.

Quote :

"they aren't saying you can't smoke"

FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME, THE BAN DOES NOT TRAMPLE THE RIGHTS OF SMOKERS... IT TRAMPLES THE RIGHTS OF PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNERS.

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 3:23 PM. Reason : ]

5/14/2009 3:19:14 PM

im mainly talking about the property/business owners

5/14/2009 3:19:40 PM

then yes as I've stated before, the business owners should be the ones complaining about their rights, not the smokers who think the state is taking away smokers rights

^^YES FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME I ALREADY STATED THAT THE BUSINESS OWNERS SHOULD BE THE ONES PISSED NOT THE SMOKERS

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 3:23 PM. Reason : ^]

5/14/2009 3:21:51 PM

^
WHY CAN'T I BE PISSED THAT A FELLOW CITIZEN'S RIGHTS ARE BEING TRAMPLE ON?
EMPATHY MUCH?

5/14/2009 3:25:25 PM

^I USE ALL CAPS IM SO TUFF

5/14/2009 3:27:52 PM

^
Do you prefer bold?

5/14/2009 3:29:43 PM

hey guys, i really hate something that just happened. it's just not fair! i know! i'll write about it on a online message board! boy that will sure show them!

5/14/2009 3:31:41 PM

^exactly

^^ maybe you should try italic

5/14/2009 3:33:55 PM

Willy Nilly
Proprietor, Blue Oyster Bar

5/14/2009 3:34:57 PM

I got tired of reading all this crap around page 6. So to sum up:

from a selfish personal standpoint, HELL YEAH.

from a gov't controlling standpoint, boo

Oh and whoever said:

Quote :

"Lilly's & Cafe Luna aren't bars. Cafe Luna is a damn expensive restaurant."

LOL at saying Caffe Luna is expensive.

5/14/2009 3:36:30 PM

when you present a non-smoker who is all for this ban with bars or restaurants that are already non-smoking, they make excuses about why whatever place is too expensive or too far away or something...because they don't want smokers and non-smokers to have choices about where to go, they want every bar to be their personal drunk tank where they can get plastered and not have their scent of axe body spray covered by smoke

5/14/2009 3:38:10 PM

^^^
I guess you're admitting defeat if you have to resort to suggesting that I'm gay or own a gay bar.
Weak.

Person A: legitimate point
Person B: refutation; legitimate point
Person A: refutation; legitimate point
Person B: refutation; legitimate point
Person A: refutation; legitimate point
Person B: OH YEAH, WELL YOU'RE GAY!!!!

5/14/2009 3:38:38 PM

sullivan's is an expensive restaurant. and sometimes when i'm being bad with girlfriends we stop in there to get a martini.

yum.

oh....wait. that was off topic. or was it? omg a place where you can eat AND drink? why didn't i think of that!

5/14/2009 3:38:58 PM

^(however many up) *I'm* putting the cart before the horse? Now you're jumping into this saying unreasonable danger -- never once was I specifically talking about unreasonable danger. Harmful can mean more than just physically harmful -- I meant damaging to someone's emotions. When you say "perhaps you were incorrectly taught," you and I both know you are just implying I -was- incorrectly taught in a fancy way, or else you wouldn't have said it. And I'm the one that can't read?? You're not throwing around "unreasonable danger" and I NEVER mentioned that situation. Once again, an example of you assuming.. You assumed you knew what I meant by racism being harmful. If you had actually tried discussing these points instead of being a blatant jackass about it (well, what else is new) you would have found that I was predominantly thinking of offensive phrases therefore harmful to the person in a mental sense. And free speech =/= hate speech.. Hate speech can just be a form of free speech, as you said, so I feel you contradicted yourself there.

/end stupid meaningless discussion... because this is going nowhere and neither you nor I am going to change the way we freakin feel about it. Nothing I say is going to make you think differently and I'm not going to let anything you say change my mind, so I'm dropping it. Have fun talking to no one about the racism issue.

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 3:43 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 3:43 PM. Reason : V EXACTLY... another reason why I'm walking away from this stupid argument!]

5/14/2009 3:40:47 PM

^what does all that have to do with smoking?

5/14/2009 3:42:08 PM

i win.

5/14/2009 3:43:19 PM

Quote :

"when i'm being bad with girlfriends"

monkey wrench

5/14/2009 3:43:59 PM

Eh, I think Caffe Luna is expensive. I'm poor. When the job train picks me up, I can go there.

5/14/2009 3:44:12 PM

^When almost every single entree is less than $25 you can't call some place expensive. A "damn expensive" restaurant is a place that charges $50 for a steak and is a la carte to boot, lol.

I lived in NYC for three years and they've had smoking banned there for almost a decade I think. And over the course of time about 500,000 people have quit smoking. I'm sure the insane cigarette taxes aren't helping, but things have gone along fine it wasn't the end of the world.

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 3:45 PM. Reason : k]

5/14/2009 3:44:23 PM

^^ the best part about it is the classy porch which looks onto

the bus stop

i like it though. i went to a rehearsal dinner there, it was a good venue for that. i get it might not be everyone's choice of "where to go out" but it is nonsmoking! and i was just naming things i could think of really fast!

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 3:46 PM. Reason : .]

5/14/2009 3:45:00 PM

cafe luna has the best calamari in raleigh

5/14/2009 3:45:57 PM

^^Oh I'm not upset abt it. I guess I thought it was more expensive based on a meeting I had to set up there for the good ole' General Assembly.
It's not that expensive, looking at the menu. SORRY EVERYONE, THE FEMALE WAS WRONG.

5/14/2009 3:49:42 PM

Quote :

"THE FEMALE WAS WRONG"

nothing new...thats typically the case in all things

5/14/2009 3:51:13 PM

Quote :

"Harmful can mean more than just physically harmful -- I meant damaging to someone's emotions."

And speech need not be racist to do that. It isn't the racism, it's the verbal assault. Some racist speech does not constitute a verbal assault. Some does. Some verbal assaults contain racism. Some don't. They two are completely independent.

Quote :

"When you say "perhaps you were incorrectly taught," you and I both know you are just implying I -was- incorrectly taught in a fancy way, or else you wouldn't have said it."

Excuse me, asshole, but I say what I mean. When I said perhaps, I meant perhaps. I don't know you. I don't know what did or didn't learn. There you go again putting words in my mouth -- and you have the nerve to tell me how I should go about debating?

Quote :

"Once again, an example of you assuming.. You assumed you knew what I meant by racism being harmful."

No I didn't. I was speaking generally. And it's clear that I know more about what is and isn't a harm.

Quote :

" was predominantly thinking of offensive phrases therefore harmful to the person in a mental sense."

As in verbal abuse or verbal assault. I addressed that already.

Quote :

"And free speech =/= hate speech.. Hate speech can just be a form of free speech, as you said, so I feel you contradicted yourself there."

Hate speech, and in fact all speech, is free speech. There is nothing wrong with speech, in and of itself.... hate or otherwise.

Quote :

"I'm walking away from this stupid argument"

Bye!

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 3:53 PM. Reason : ]

5/14/2009 3:51:18 PM

am i the only one that gets really fucking annoyed at the fact that Willy Nilly doesn't put a space between the quote and his first line of text?

5/14/2009 3:52:34 PM

Quote :

"SORRY EVERYONE, THE FEMALE WAS WRONG"

oh snap! i am a female, too

5/14/2009 3:53:07 PM

Quote :

"The fact of the matter is we live in a great country and we have a lot of rights. There are freedoms which are afforded to us that other countries wish they had. However, as with any privilege, this freedom comes with a responsibility, and this responsibility, sadly, is what a lot of people (especially those in the crying about a mother fucking nanny state crowd) choose to ignore."

-IRSeriousCat

I am not sure where you got the idea that it is the "responsibility" of smokers to not-smoke in public places. Its a fact of life that some people do things that piss other people off. You might hear an off-color joke in the booth next to yours at Taco Bell, but it isn't that guy's "responsibility" to cater to your sense of humor.

And before you scream about how second hand smoking will ruin your health, please remember that the question of whether second hand smoke will significantly impacts your pretty pink lungs will depend on the concentration of exposure. If you were dropped into an atmosphere of 100% methane you would suffocate, but we have not banned farting in public places. Same reasoning applies to second hand smoke. There is no evidence that occasional exposure will result in significant health consequences. That's why you don't see those "Truth" ads quoting how many people die each year from second hand smoke. I am betting the number is less than 20 and none of the people that die could be considered to have had "occasional exposure".

Peace out homes.

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 3:56 PM. Reason : ``]

5/14/2009 3:54:24 PM

Twwers for Fewer Page Downs supports willy's method of quoting

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 3:55 PM. Reason : er]

5/14/2009 3:55:23 PM