Cutler tops them all...just on potential and arm strength.

9/28/2010 5:54:43 PM

Finally we can agree on something.

9/28/2010 5:55:13 PM

ITT points in the first 3 quarters don't count as much as points in the 4th quarter.

If you can win most of your games by outscoring your opponents you don't have to come back, and rivers wins more games than almost anyone. I can't find the stat at the time, I think they showed it on MNF on week 1, but I'm fairly sure the Rivers led Chargers have the highest career points per game average of all time for a QB.

9/28/2010 6:02:45 PM

We're trying to be done with this. And even though I disagreed with jbrick, he or no one else is saying Rivers isn't incredible.

[Edited on September 28, 2010 at 6:05 PM. Reason : d]

9/28/2010 6:03:45 PM

Its my fault in trying to argue with HUR. I should know better than to pick on the handicapped.

9/28/2010 6:07:15 PM

Quote :

"Seattle games further prove that he is distinctly behind those guys"

KC sure...

Seattle no. Philip did his job. Special teams and the defense let him down. That and the O-line which i suppose you could partially blame
Philip for by not making sure his guys were setup in time or did not move prior to the snap.

Quote :

"Do you only watch Chargers games??? Ted Ginn and Josh Cribbs both did it LAST YEAR. Devin Hester did it a couple years before that. Not to mention Eddie Royal for Denver returned a kickoff and a punt return for a TD last year...not two kickoffs. "

Chargers and the panthers except during playoffs. Although I do watch some SNF and MNF when the game strikes my fancy.
You are right though against denver last year it was a Kickoff and a punt not 2 kickoff returns for TD. My point still stands
special teams should not have let Denver score either of those times on MNF last year.

9/28/2010 11:44:13 PM

Please post a link if someone can find a good feed.

10/3/2010 4:15:41 PM

http://atdhe.net/25283/watch-arizona-cardinals-vs-san-diego-chargers

10/3/2010 4:30:27 PM

Wilson just got burned by Gates.

10/3/2010 4:37:49 PM

like to see this two headed monster with Mathews and Tolbert - feels like Carolina only with PRiv as QB

10/3/2010 4:51:19 PM

Plz get out of SD, Phil.

[Edited on October 3, 2010 at 4:57 PM. Reason : FUCK SPROLES]

10/3/2010 4:56:51 PM

Damn it why did I start Matthews instead of Tolbert

10/3/2010 5:04:55 PM

SD is perfect for him. Best TE in the league, solid receivers, very good pass-catching running backs, and a great play-caller in Norv Turner.

10/3/2010 5:06:55 PM

Also he has a $100m contract

10/3/2010 5:11:35 PM

Wow how do you leave Gates that wide open?

[Edited on October 3, 2010 at 5:23 PM. Reason : LOL one on on with a LB, no safety help]

10/3/2010 5:22:41 PM

llinkis fucked up but im watching lines and dots on my droid while listening to it

10/3/2010 6:23:12 PM

It requires a special plugin.

10/3/2010 6:24:26 PM

did he just say 8 sacks today

10/3/2010 6:30:51 PM

Max Hall = deer in headlights

10/3/2010 6:47:59 PM

Damn their D almost pitched a shutout.

But 9 sacks for the Chargers today, 4 for Phillips.

10/3/2010 7:01:16 PM

whatan ass whooppin. props to nate for his 47,48 yard kicks.

10/3/2010 7:15:15 PM

If Peyton Manning was clutch, he would have won that game over Jax. He just doesn't have it in him.

10/3/2010 7:16:46 PM

Chargers #1 in total offense AND total defense
http://www.nfl.com/stats/team

10/4/2010 4:51:25 PM

Quote :

"If Peyton Manning was clutch, he would have won that game over Jax. He just doesn't have it in him."

San Diego had the ball last in the Chiefs and Seahawks game and Philip did not lead them to a TD.

Manning didn't have the ball last against Jax. He led them to the tying TD, but their defense couldn't hold. There's your difference.

BTW...extremely solid game for Philip on Sunday. 80% passing, couple TDs, no picks. Didn't have to do much, but did everything that was asked of him and did it accurately. It would be nice if he didn't have to throw for 400+ yards every game...but I do like to see the 300+ yard 3td stat line.

[Edited on October 4, 2010 at 5:44 PM. Reason : .]

10/4/2010 5:37:50 PM

Still counts against Manning in that comeback opportunity stat you posted last page. Rivers had a game pretty much exactly like that a couple years back against the panthers. Scored with about a minute left but the Panthers marched down the field and threw a TD to rosario as time expired.

Pretty sure he's had several games like that in fact.

10/4/2010 6:52:10 PM

Exactly. That comeback stat is bullshit because it is so reliant on factors out of the QBs control.

JBrick must have a horrible memory if he can't remember Rivers' epic comebacks.

Comebacks against the Bengals (twice), Broncos, Seahawks in '06, Titans in '07, Chiefs in '08, Raiders & Giants last year immediately come to mind.

10/4/2010 8:03:41 PM

maybe i didnt read correctly but did someone say peyton was clutch.

funny cause peyton is to philip as butch davis is to o'brien

10/4/2010 10:16:33 PM

Quote :

"JBrick must have a horrible memory if he can't remember Rivers' epic comebacks. Comebacks against the Bengals (twice), Broncos, Seahawks in '06, Titans in '07, Chiefs in '08, Raiders & Giants last year immediately come to mind."

Methinks you use the word "epic" loosely. He's had some decent comebacks in the regular season and a few against some good teams (I really think the Giants one is the most memorable because it was the most recent, it came after he threw an INT, and it almost was a real last second comeback...and against a notable team). But he's still far behind the "Peyton Manning has 1:30 with 2 timeouts, automatic touchdown" guarantee. And he's yet to do in a really big game, playoffs or a game at the end of the season to get into the playoffs (I could be wrong and one of those games mentioned might fall into the latter...and you can't fault him for San Diego already having playoff spots wrapped up...just saying he hasn't done it in a big game yet).

I guess it kind of reminds me of his career at NC State. We always went to a bowl (San Diego always gets to the playoffs, usually as a high seed), he always puts up great numbers, and although he never really played awful, it just seemed like when it really came down to it, he didn't have his best games. I know our defense sucked that year, but when we started 9-0 and lost three games in a row, he definitely wasn't lights out in the following 3-game losing streak (not exactly against amazing teams). Kind of reminds me of how he doesn't necessarily play his best in the playoffs (Jets last year) or doesn't always come through when the game is on the line.

I honestly feel like he will get better at it (at least I hope he does), but to say he's at that level right now would be wrong and let your NC State bias come through.

10/5/2010 9:07:49 AM

Who ALWAYS comes through with the game on the line? You're holding up Rivers to some standard that nobody meets.

[Edited on October 5, 2010 at 12:29 PM. Reason : I'll put in next post]

10/5/2010 12:19:51 PM

And you're not reading what I'm posting.

I was only arguing with people who say that he comes through more often than not...which he doesn't.

There are certain QBs that get the ball with less than two minutes and the game on the line and if you're the opposing team, you're like "ahh shit...I don't feel good about this." Manning, Brees, Brady...and unfortunately, Big Ben for some reason. Rivers isn't in that category yet. That's all I'm saying. He's had his comebacks, but he's also had a large share of "fallen short".

I'm not saying that he hasn't had game winning drives and that he's not capable, I'm just saying that he's far from a guarantee in leading a 4th quarter, game winning drive.

10/5/2010 12:27:05 PM

Manning, until he won his superbowl he was known as a perennial choker. Just having one year where he wins one doesn't erase all those times he didnt.
Brees has missed the playoffs in half his years as a starter.
Roethlisberger hasn't been anything special in the playoffs, he's been bailed out by his defense and bad calls by the refs.
Brady might be the best option, but even he has had plenty of big games he's lost in the final minutes, especially these days.

[Edited on October 5, 2010 at 12:31 PM. Reason : ]

10/5/2010 12:31:15 PM

Quote :

"Manning, until he won his superbowl he was known as a perennial choker. Just having one year where he wins one doesn't erase all those times he didnt."

Actually, it kinda does. I think most of the sports world would agree with me on that. Once he got that Super Bowl...most people put him at the top of the list and ahead of Brady in the QB category.

Same goes with Brees.

And Big Ben's second Super Bowl put him up there (because he was pretty garbage in the first one), and recently he's actually put up big numbers when he has been raping girls and crashing his bike.

I'm just hoping Philip gets that Super Bowl victory so this argument can stop taking place...but until he does that, then you have to bring up his playoff failures and his inability to come up TDs in the final drives against teams like KC and Seattle.

It's not bad company to be in, but he could be the next Dan Marino.

(BTW...notice I never mention Favre. I dislike Brady just as much as Favre...but IMO, Favre loses more big games than he wins. He has a ridiculous amount of INTs for a reason...and it's not just because he's playing into his 60s...fuck that guy)

10/5/2010 12:38:44 PM

Quote :

"But he's still far behind the "Peyton Manning has 1:30 with 2 timeouts, automatic touchdown" guarantee."

Peyton has about 6-7 years of starting time over Rivers as well......this is only Rivers' 5th full year of starting.

10/5/2010 12:39:28 PM

Hey jbrick

Who has a better playoff winning percentage (a dumb stat), Manning or Favre

10/5/2010 12:43:32 PM

Quote :

"Hey jbrick Who has a better playoff winning percentage (a dumb stat), Manning or Favre"

I knew once I typed in "Favre" that the fanboy would come in.

I don't really give a shit what their playoff winning percentages are. Favre shows us what he can do with the team around him. Last year he's surrounded by weapons and has a great regular season, only to throw more dumb INTs in the playoffs and have his team exit. He's down one (and sometimes two) of those weapons this year, and he's sucking it up.

Manning has taken some of the worst rushing teams in the league and some very suspect defenses to the playoffs year after year, and some deep into the playoffs.

Manning > Favre...and I think you will find most "experts" would agree with that statement.

Quote :

"Peyton has about 6-7 years of starting time over Rivers as well......this is only Rivers' 5th full year of starting."

Which is why I hope Rivers will get to that point. I'm just saying he isn't there yet. I think you will find more State fans that think Rivers is on Peyton's level than not. Which is why we have a reputation for being such a delusional fan base.

[Edited on October 5, 2010 at 12:52 PM. Reason : .]

10/5/2010 12:50:07 PM

Favorite part:

Quote :

"Favre loses more big games than he wins."

Quote :

" don't really give a shit what their playoff winning percentages are."

Second favorite part:

Where you changed the argument to Manning > Favre. I totally agree with that, btw.

I mean, especially 40 year-old Favre. Favre today is fucking trash, but I doubt Manning or any modern QB would excel at his age. You give late 90s Favre the protection and receiving corps that Manning's played with and lots of good things happen. But that's another argument that's not really appropriate here.

[Edited on October 5, 2010 at 12:57 PM. Reason : ]

10/5/2010 12:52:54 PM

Quote :

"Where you changed the argument to Manning > Favre. I totally agree with that, btw."

I'm not changing my argument in this thread, I was just having a separate, side argument with you.

And I'll stand by my "Favre loses more games than he wins." Favre has single-handely won a lot of games during his career...and some of them really big. He's made some ridiculous throws that very few people in the history of the NFL could ever make.

At the same time...he's made a ridiculous amount of bone-headed decisions...many more than the tops QBs in the history of the NFL. IMO, that's what keeps him from being one of the best ever. My bias also doesn't like him because he's a prima-donna who tries to come off as a Working Class/Wrangler wearing/Back Home Working on the Farm/Blue Collar/People's Quarterback....when he truly is one of the biggest prima donna's in the league who thinks the world revolves around him. I think T.O. and Ocho Cinco are better people than Favre.

10/5/2010 12:58:51 PM

ITT we know Brett Favre personally

By your own stats, Favre has 29 game winning drives and 43 4Q comebacks. Can't imagine he's lost that many games on his own.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=FavrBr00

[Edited on October 5, 2010 at 1:01 PM. Reason : I make no excuses for post-2007 Favre]

10/5/2010 12:59:29 PM

Quote :

"but I doubt Manning or any modern QB would excel at his age."

I'm very interested to see how Manning goes with age.

He's pretty old as it is now (in NFL age)...and he hasn't taken a beating like Marino, Favre, Montana, Young, and Elway did. Even Brady has been getting knocked around pretty bad the past couple years.

I think Manning's production will be better than Favre's at their respective ages if he can keep some decent weapons around him.

10/5/2010 1:00:56 PM

Quote :

"ITT we know Brett Favre personally"

Hate to be a name dropper, but I'm good friends with Ron Wolf's kid, Eliot, who's worked for the Packers since he was like 10 and is now pretty high up on the organization (met him randomly at a 2-week academic conference at Stanford after my sophomore year of high school), and the Packers were fed up with Favre's shit for the last five years before he left. The shit that he's been pulling in public for the past couple years is what he did behind doors during his last years in Green Bay. They rejoiced when he finally decided not to come back.

He might have been beloved by Packers fans, but the organization HATED him.

[Edited on October 5, 2010 at 1:10 PM. Reason : .]

10/5/2010 1:04:53 PM

lol Wolf has been out of Green Bay for ten years

10/5/2010 1:06:06 PM

Quote :

"By your own stats, Favre has 29 game winning drives and 43 4Q comebacks. Can't imagine he's lost that many games on his own."

I'm sure you could do this for every QB and break down all of those games and find that maybe 1/4 of those were against actual playoff teams and even less came in actual big game (playoff game or game that determined actually being in the playoffs). So I'm saying it's probably the same for Manning/Brady/Rivers, etc. Favre also has had more opportunities with the large number of games he's played.

And off the top of my head, I can think of two recent playoff games where he shit the bed and made stupid mistakes (last playoff game in Green Bay against NYG and last year's playoff game against NO). Then there was hit late season collapse with the Jets.

You could probably help me out with his Green Bay days. But I know he's thrown away a good number of games with his Delhomme-like picks.

10/5/2010 1:09:07 PM

Quote :

"lol Wolf has been out of Green Bay for ten years"

But Eliot is still there and still moving his way up. Probably been there longer than 99% of the people currently in that organization.

10/5/2010 1:10:30 PM

That's why pinning losses on one player is dumb. Favre lost that game for the Packers? Not Grant, who had like 25 yards rushing, or the defense that let up 400 yards. It was a bad decision at a really, really bad time, but giving the win or loss to one guy is retarded.

[Edited on October 5, 2010 at 1:15 PM. Reason : ^ Didn't know that]

10/5/2010 1:14:49 PM

Quote :

"That's why pinning losses on one player is dumb."

I agree...but the QB gets most of the glory, therefore he should get more than the share of blame.

I don't think Peyton Manning is entirely to blame for their loss to the Saints, but he didn't play up to his standards, so he should shoulder a lot of the blame for that loss. He made a terrible pass to Wayne for that int returned for a touchdown and overall just did not have a solid game.

In big games, you expect your great QBs to make good plays (sometimes the spectacular, like Favre's back endzone throw against San Fran last year), to manage the game, and not make back-breaking mistakes. You know they're not going to connect on every pass or avoid every sack, but when the game is on the line, they shouldn't throw it inside on an out pattern on the first drive in overtime (what Favre did against NYG in GB) nor should they telegraph the pass on a slant pattern in the most important drive of the game against an aggressive NO defense.

The QB is in the biggest position to make an impact on the game. If a LB or of D-lineman fucks up, the safety can bail them out. If a safety or CB fucks up, the ball can be overthrown or the WR could drop the ball. QB fuck-ups generally have more consequences than any other player fuck-ups in a game. I just feel that Favre has had more fuck-ups than a great QB is suppose to have. I take that back...he is a great QB...but I just can't put him in the Brady/Manning/Montana/Young/Elway/etc. category. Okay...maybe my bias won't let me...without my bias...he might be in that category, but at the very bottom of it.

10/5/2010 1:23:42 PM

I agree with all of that, but I'd like to add that anyone who bases an argument around "QB wins/losses" should be shot in the face. We're smarter than that.

10/5/2010 1:25:16 PM

who is worth starting for my fantasy team? Mathews or Tolbert? Tolberts been better this year but Matthews has more upside. I have both but I dont know which one to start.

10/5/2010 1:31:39 PM

Fuck favre. Rivers is the only chargers QB to beat him


Let's get back on topic of chargers football

10/5/2010 4:13:35 PM

I went to the game last Sunday in SD and the Chargers looked GOOD. The only downer was that Kaeding missed a routine 36 yd attempt. From my viewing angle it looked like he had it though. I would not even call it a game as much as a massacre. My view had great view of the cheerleaders and had #17 right in front of me whenever he would chat with the QB coach.

From my memory I think we scored on every drive execpt for the fumble that turned into a Cardinal TD. The power rankings came out and I have trouble with the Chargers only being at #11. Given their offensive and defensive stats they should be better. The KC game was their only "no-show" as far as performance, and they lost to seahawks on a fluke (special teams screwing up)

10/7/2010 10:47:32 AM

Quote :

"The power rankings came out and I have trouble with the Chargers only being at #11."

Why would you even care?? It's 4 weeks into the season and they are 2-2 with losses to the Seahawks and Chiefs. Special teams is part of the game, if they can't shore it up, then they aren't a good team.

But they are definitely a top 10 team, hopefully a top 5 team if they quit making mistakes. Let the season play out.

10/7/2010 10:49:34 AM