Quote :

"On the surface, not knowing much about Islam or the ethnic tensions in the region, it kind of makes sense -- establishing the first true Arab democracy. Sounds good. Then you realize that Iraq is split between two religious factions that hate each other and a Kurdish minority that wants out, and also we're not the only ones meddling in Iraqi politics so it's not quite the nation building play-doh we thought, and, whoops, here's the Arab spring happening on its own for reasons totally unrelated to us, and it's not going real well either."

That's where it all falls apart for me. This was 2002, not 1902, and hardly our first Arabian adventure. Because of everything you just said, the idea should have been killed at inception. But it wasn't. Why? Myself and a lot of other people think it's because private businesses with a clear profit motive for war had a strong influence inside the Bush administration.

2/28/2015 2:16:23 PM

Could what tens of millions believe is true be true?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/iraqi-army-downs-two-british-planes-carrying-weapons-for-isil-terrorists/5433089

Can anybody find this in any other sources?

2/28/2015 2:16:43 PM

yeah i saw it on infowars and syrianfreepress

abovetopsecret forums are having a rousing discussion

i thought you were a connoisseur of such fine press?



[Edited on February 28, 2015 at 5:24 PM. Reason : -]

2/28/2015 5:23:54 PM

I am talking about proper news sources you asshole.

3/1/2015 12:12:57 AM

Quote :

"That's where it all falls apart for me. This was 2002, not 1902, and hardly our first Arabian adventure."

It wouldn't be the first time we failed to learn from history. Americans are famously ignorant of foreign cultures, and prior to 9/11 our pool of Middle East experts was so shallow it barely existed. As a rule, most of the government people who are actual experts in a region are low- to mid-level analysts at State or one of the intelligence agencies, people whose input is easily ignored when the big shots want war.

So we agree here that powerful people within and without the administration wanted war, and glossed over these realities on the ground. Our point of departure is why they wanted it. You, and as you say a lot of other people, default to assuming business is why. I'm unconvinced, and believe that neoconservatives really thought they could set up a model democracy and let the wish overtake the reality. Or more accurately, I think it was both -- it would be naive for me to think there were no business interests in favor of war, just as I would think it foolish if you didn't think there were any "true believers" among the neocons -- but overall I think the prime mover was the ideologue rather than the tycoon.

3/2/2015 3:10:16 AM

Don't know what to believe

http://rt.com/news/240801-isis-destroy-statues-fake/

3/15/2015 8:46:47 AM

Again, don't know what to believe

http://www.disclose.tv/news/FOX_NEWS_ISIS_is_an_Army_of_7_Foot_Tall_GIANTS/114475

3/23/2015 5:25:49 AM

[Old]

3/23/2015 11:16:09 AM

I can't believe how the media has been drumming up this threat. ISIS is not a threat to the united states. Its so transparent to me that they are just trying to draw us into a war and that our media is trying to soften the people into accepting a war. Stop talking about ISIS so much.

3/23/2015 12:36:19 PM

Living in London now, it's amazing how little everyone cares about ISIS over here.

The truth is, London, the UK and the rest of Europe are scared shitless about Putin & Russia.

That's the real threat not just in Europe, but the rest of the fucking world.

I have a Polish co-worker, and she was telling us how in Poland, the Russians will come up about every other week and move the border so that Russia continues it's expansion Westward.

THEY JUST MOVE THE FUCKING BORDER. Kinda crazy.

3/23/2015 7:04:16 PM

Have not read it yet, but seems interesting

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/the-hidden-hand-behind-the-islamic-state-militants-saddam-husseins/2015/04/04/aa97676c-cc32-11e4-8730-4f473416e759_story.html

The hidden hand behind the Islamic State militants? Saddam Hussein’s.

4/10/2015 12:34:08 AM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3jtdK4yKrvY

What is the world coming to.... I hate this world

4/11/2015 4:50:29 AM

^^^ wow, wtf

^^ i read it the other day. it's good.

Quote :

"That's where it all falls apart for me. This was 2002, not 1902, and hardly our first Arabian adventure. Because of everything you just said, the idea should have been killed at inception. But it wasn't. Why? Myself and a lot of other people think it's because private businesses with a clear profit motive for war had a strong influence inside the Bush administration."

I think it's more simple than that. I think that the Bush administration emplaced like-minded people; often even for ideological reasons when there was no reason for politics (Bremer in Iraq, for example, although that doesn't explain the Iraq war in the first place). It was, I believe, an echo chamber full of people who saw things as they wanted them to be, not as they are, and as GrumpyGOP said, not versed on the political and cultural issues there. Now, THAT is a major fault--if you're going to do something like that, you should figure out what the fuck you're doing, or at least heavily consult those who do understand, and not cherry pick from those who fit what you want to hear (like they did with WMD intelligence).

4/11/2015 11:04:11 AM

NSFW dead guy

So here's a guy from my old unit, went over to iraq on his own and is killing ISIS. I think its nuts but the dude just likes fighting.


http://imgur.com/a/zOiIe

4/21/2015 7:50:51 PM

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/local/local-teen-ISIS-sentenced/nky7z/

weird.

4/21/2015 8:10:11 PM

^^ rather him killing isis over there, than going nutty not being able to kill over here.

[Edited on April 21, 2015 at 10:56 PM. Reason : guess he could be come a cop]

4/21/2015 10:56:09 PM

That was a little uncalled for, moron.

4/22/2015 3:52:35 PM

You know I've always wondered if that were possible. You always hear about people trying to get over there to join ISIS, but what about anybody who wants to just go over there and kill ISIS? Unaffiliated.

Like mercs without pay.

[Edited on April 22, 2015 at 4:21 PM. Reason : ksa;]

4/22/2015 4:20:34 PM

Quote :

"http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/local/local-teen-ISIS-sentenced/nky7z/ weird."

ISIS will never get any influence over here... especially in NC... or Raleigh... anyone who thinks so is just some lame brained racist who hates Obama.

4/22/2015 5:53:05 PM

^^ the pergmesha want to actually set up a platoon (30 or so) of US fighters. I know right now there are about 8 of them

also, just FYI, these guys would get pissed about you calling them "mercs". They may be foreign but they are part of a legitimate military and dont get paid shit. Most of them are doing it as some sort of "higher calling" because they understand ISIS needs to be dealt with. They aren't necessarily doing it for the US either. Many know first hand what they are doing to the local populous and figured out a way to get over there and stop it.

4/23/2015 2:26:31 PM

Quote :

" Its so transparent to me that they are just trying to draw us into a war and that our media is trying to soften the people into accepting a war."

I haven't really gotten this impression. Admittedly my American media access is limited, but I'm on CNN.com every day, and their coverage has not given me a "rush to war" sense. Nor has the stuff coming out of the White House or Congress.

If you wanted to get Americans ready for war, you'd harp constantly on the murders of Christians, you'd downplay recent ISIS defeats to make them look stronger, you'd really play up the threat of them capturing Syrian chemical weapons. None of which I've seen happening. Mostly I've seen ISIS fade from public consciousness just like all of the other "fears of the week" lately. The story isn't quite as dead as Ebola, but it's getting buried by Nepal, Australian drug dealers, and some guy who is a woman.

4/27/2015 10:25:18 AM

^^ "peshmerga"

4/28/2015 9:31:21 PM

Quote :

". Most of them are doing it as some sort of "higher calling" because they understand ISIS needs to be dealt with. They aren't necessarily doing it for the US either."

they are just psychopaths who like to kill

4/29/2015 8:06:55 AM

I watched a recent CNN Special on ISIS, and despite the name of the special (BLINDSIDED: How Isis Shook the World), most of it was pretty interesting.

5/13/2015 11:22:27 AM

They want us to believe a depleted isis took a major city from an american trained and equipped army. It wasnt believable last year and its not believable after 8 months of constant bombimg.

Americans are being played right now.

5/18/2015 9:12:52 PM

^ so who do you think captured the city, if not ISIS?

Are you saying the US is playing a game by letting it happen? Or that it wasn't even IS who overran the city? Or worse, that the US is actively making it happen?

5/18/2015 11:35:06 PM

I dont know what it is but i know its bullshit. You can speculate all day.

A. Sunni soldiers intentionally letting isis overruN the country because they align with isis more than iraq

B. Shia gov could be letting isis overrun sunni areas for many possible subreasons

1. Give us reason to boot the ground and clense sunni militants
2. Giving iraq reason to disenfranchise sunni population further by providing an awful alternative to them. This strategy has worked well for assad
3. Give iran a reason to help them.
4. Us never truly trained an iraqi army. Money was just "spent" as a corrupt way of moving money but no funtional army to show for it
5. All parties are conspiring just to get the us into syria


C. Airstrikes have been a vomplete failure.

[Edited on May 18, 2015 at 11:58 PM. Reason : i think its a. either way weve wasted a ton of money]

5/18/2015 11:57:02 PM

One of the only sources ive found on daily events. Doesn't come across as biased.

http://www.iraqinews.com/

Ramidi

From what ive read Iraqi police units started abandoning there posts, the forces in Ramidi were not resupplied or reinforced despite numerous requests. There is fear that resources deployed to Ramidi will end up in the hands of ISIS.

Security forces probably retreated to reorganize with the current reinforcements being deployed there. There is an apparent counter attack coming soon.

Apparently, welding armor plates to bulldozers makes on hell of a VIED.

5/21/2015 11:34:41 AM

Iraqis on the ground in sunni areas like ambar saying they arent getting american weapons that we have sent them via the Iraqi government.

That either means the shia government is intentionally screwing them over or they are intentionally goving the weapons to isis. Either way, sctarian potential energy is continously building. End game is becoming increasingly more complicated.

5/21/2015 1:49:40 PM

"Ramadi"
..............

Wtf
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3090886/ISIS-execute-man-BAZOOKA-shocking-new-video.html

5/21/2015 3:00:38 PM

meh, I don't know...I think the methods of murder they use are just to one-up each other now. Still the same outcome...the guy ends up dead in the end. these guys suck.

5/21/2015 5:32:24 PM

Only in america do we frown upon others for not blowing people up in a humane way

5/21/2015 6:32:05 PM

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3092946/I-rejoiced-sex-slave-forced-sex-ISN-T-rape-thankful-Chilling-rant-twisted-ISIS-jihadi-bride-justifies-kidnapping-abusing-Yazidi-girls.html

5/22/2015 9:30:42 PM

Isn't it pretty much explicitly allowed in the Quran? There's instruction for how to capture, enslave, and enjoy war booty, right?

ISIS is just strictly following instructions in the holy book of their religion. I don't get how anybody can say they aren't Muslims or that they aren't practicing Islam. Sorry, but they are. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean they aren't following that religion. Westboro Baptist church is another example.

No true Scotsman and what not.

5/24/2015 5:52:00 PM

Quote :

" I don't get how anybody can say they aren't Muslims or that they aren't practicing Islam. Sorry, but they are. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean they aren't following that religion."

That's a pedantic observation though. They're also killing muslims, and they are being fought by at least 3 different muslim groups.

So what exactly is the point of saying "oh, they're muslims". It doesn't appear to be for any analytical or strategic purpose, it doesn't actually help us understand how to defeat them, it doesn't help us filter out who might be in IS and who isn't.

Yeah, they're muslims because they say they're muslims, but so what?

5/24/2015 11:26:12 PM

can we have a passage from the Quran that supports that? too lazy to look it up, plus I think searching for "Quran rape" while at work is probably not good.

6/1/2015 2:32:43 PM

Quote :

" "When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion." "

Quote :

"They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera's spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil."

6/1/2015 3:46:27 PM

all kinds of crazy shit is in the bible as well as the quran. I hate the focus on the fact that ISIS is islamic but to be completely honest, anyone who says they believe in the bible as the word of god or the quran and DOESN'T agree with grotesque things like slavery, and rape are hypocrites.

You believe hardcore in some things but then simply dismiss others as immoral?

To me its just proof that these books have no divine inspiration but to people who believe, it makes them hypocrites. You don't get to pick and choose.

ISIS welcomes all muslims in their eyes. ISIS is killing "muslims" essentially for picking and choosing which things from islam they will practice while flagrantly rejecting other things.

6/1/2015 6:13:28 PM

^ slavery is allowed in islam, but only under certain conditions. those conditions are that it has to be a righteous/just war declared by a muslim caliph to prevent or fight off oppression of the muslim citizenry. any people of the enemy captured can be enslaved, but they have to be treated kindly, clothed, fed, and not beaten. and it is encouraged to free them. plus, no one can be born a slave.

(not condoning slavery, just pointing out facts)

isis is going around pillaging city after city, raping women, destroying infrastructure, killing indiscriminately, and killing in ways not sanctioned by islam.

their actions are no sanctioned by islam, let alone the fact that no unified caliph declared war in this case, as there isn't any existing caliphate or unified islamic state with a ruler accepted by all muslims. they just made one up and started killing.

6/2/2015 3:21:30 AM

You are looling at it through your eyes and not theirs. Isis is a caliphate and they believe all true muslims recognize that.

They are also called to kill infedels who are actively opressing islam and making war by worshipping false gods and not recognizing the caliphate.

Women are not beinf raped simce they are being married or taken as slaves. Thats not considered rape to them.

99% of muslims dont interpret it the way they do but their interpretation is easily the most ataright forward almost literal context of quran passages. The same can be applied to the old testament as well.

[Edited on June 2, 2015 at 3:47 PM. Reason : They arent killing indescrimintely. They even allow people to convert]

6/2/2015 3:45:59 PM

So, let me get this straight... All this because someone wrote a book a long time ago?

[Edited on June 2, 2015 at 11:15 PM. Reason : ^"convert or die" falls under the indiscriminate killing category. sorry boss.]

6/2/2015 11:14:20 PM

Quote :

"(9:5) And when the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolaters wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful. "

I know the other 99% of muslims don't agree but this is pretty clearly written.

6/3/2015 7:43:01 PM

That's because those 99% of muslims don't quote single verses without reading the rest of a passage for context. ^That verse all by itself looks quite incriminating, but if you add the next verse in its context, you can argue that the Koran also orders Muslims to accept enemies who surrender, which ISIS clearly ignores.

Quote :

"(9:6) And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know."

6/7/2015 12:24:25 PM

here is the full context

http://quran.com/9/1-7

6/8/2015 2:22:26 AM

so I can follow the words of an old book that says to kill people that disagree with me and people will still try to justify my beliefs just because the book is old?

*writes down crazy thoughts...waits 2000 years...*

6/8/2015 10:17:01 AM

Quote :

" if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection"

you can't just ignore the if and bold the then part of a if/then statement.

Has anyone sought the protection of isis? I'm pretty certain Yezidis kurds nor shiites even recognize it as an official state so this wouldn't apply there.

6/8/2015 4:21:09 PM

I think people are seeking protection from isis is the point.

6/9/2015 5:21:25 PM

So how long before the Obama administration acknowledges ISIS as a legitimate government over the land they have occupied?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/22/world/middleeast/isis-transforming-into-functioning-state-that-uses-terror-as-tool.html?src=recg

7/22/2015 1:49:46 PM

^are you saying you think they should acknowledge this, or you think they would acknowledge this?

It doesn't seem beneficial to acknowledge this at this point on a policy level. It's a little fascinating though how they've managed to create political capital. I wish i knew more about the people involved that made this happen. Seems like rigidly adhering to a set of rules, however brutal, is what appeases the populace.

7/22/2015 2:02:13 PM

[no]

7/22/2015 2:06:40 PM